Author Topic: Rapid Tactical Response Unit - Creation project  (Read 3769 times)

maxcarrion

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Rapid Tactical Response Unit - Creation project
« on: 12 October 2018, 06:11:48 »
So, I've decided to create another concept unit - this time the Rapid Tactical Response Unit (RTRU)

Rapid Tactical Response Unit
The Rapid Tactical Response Unit is intended to be a small, elite unit made to bring significant force to bear in a minimum amount of time.  Mounted in a small Aerodyne dropship the RTRU will be expected to execute raids into hostile territory against specific precision targets or respond quickly to enemy action anywhere on the planet.  Whether it’s counter terrorism, hostage rescue or routing out a unit of raiders the RTRU are a first and fast response to small scale armed opposition.

Requirements
It is intended that the entire force be lifted in a single dropship, flown to target and then hot dropped onto or near the target location for a rapid strike and then potentially a quick exit to the nearest site that the dropper can put down safely.
The force will require significant infantry elements – most likely BA to allow the force to enter buildings/secure objectives.  This infantry element will need to be mounted on hot droppable APCs (WIGE seem most likely due to their speed and ability to be dropped)
The force will not be too concerned with cost of their other elements as the primary cost (the dropship) massively overshadows the cost of, say, XL fusion engines and the weight limitations demand high performance equipment.

Intended Elements
Dropship – I’m intending to fit the entire force in a small aerodyne dropship, probably a modified leopard (mech and ASF bays replaced as needed) – so around 900T of total space.   
Infantry Element – I’m intending a significant infantry element to secure and achieve objectives – probably PAL or Light BA for better in building manoeuvrability rather than the bulkier suits.  I believe that even a PAL suit is significantly superior to PBI on a ton for ton basis and certainly on a man for man basis
Infantry Transports – I think it’s reasonable to assume WIGE infantry transports armed as required to make IFVs – they’ll be able to lift BA from drop site to target site and then to an extraction site as well as provide support fire while on site.
Armour Element – Dedicated armoured combat units to engage any opposition Armour/heavy resistance – this will need to be able to outpace any pursuit so will also need a decent movement profile.
Air Element – The RTRU does not require any air or anti-air units – these can be provided as additional forces from allied units where required.
Support Element – I doubt there is space to indulge in much in the way of support elements but some that spring to mind that could be included if it doesn’t compromise the force
-   Immobilised vehicle recovery
-   Medical/Medi-vac
-   Artillery/mine/mine clear
-   Scout/Probe/EWAR/Recon
-   Cargo carriage (snatch and grab missions, payload delivery missions etc)
-   Civilian suppression

I will be looking at custom designs for each of the elements over the course of the project and would be interested in any comments both on individual elements and on the unit as a whole.

Wereling

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Re: Rapid Tactical Response Unit - Creation project
« Reply #1 on: 12 October 2018, 09:56:21 »
So, I've decided to create another concept unit - this time the Rapid Tactical Response Unit (RTRU)

Rapid Tactical Response Unit
The Rapid Tactical Response Unit is intended to be a small, elite unit made to bring significant force to bear in a minimum amount of time.  Mounted in a small Aerodyne dropship the RTRU will be expected to execute raids into hostile territory against specific precision targets or respond quickly to enemy action anywhere on the planet.

Out of curiosity, why an Aerodyne ship?

maxcarrion

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Re: Rapid Tactical Response Unit - Creation project
« Reply #2 on: 12 October 2018, 11:10:36 »
Out of curiosity, why an Aerodyne ship?

For atmospheric operations, lower altitude jumps, stealthier NOE approaches, shorter hops lifting off a ground field without hitting orbit and to be a less obvious and destructive pillar of descending plasma

Wereling

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Re: Rapid Tactical Response Unit - Creation project
« Reply #3 on: 12 October 2018, 13:11:59 »
For atmospheric operations, lower altitude jumps, stealthier NOE approaches, shorter hops lifting off a ground field without hitting orbit and to be a less obvious and destructive pillar of descending plasma

Can aerodyne ships take off and land vertically? I didn't think they could. Vertical liftoff and landing seems important for landing in rough field conditions.

maxcarrion

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Re: Rapid Tactical Response Unit - Creation project
« Reply #4 on: 12 October 2018, 15:34:00 »
I don't have my books with me but I think a leopard can get up and down on a pretty short, straight clear section.  I figure the deployment is the important part, if the DS has to set a few miles away then a fast, fully mounted strike force can move to the field

Daryk

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Re: Rapid Tactical Response Unit - Creation project
« Reply #5 on: 12 October 2018, 16:14:50 »
StratOps has rules for Aerodyne DropShips (and Small Craft) making vertical take offs and landings.  It's extremely damaging.  To the point Small Craft are almost guaranteed to destroy themselves in the process (the "automatic" damage is Capital Scale).

DOC_Agren

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Re: Rapid Tactical Response Unit - Creation project
« Reply #6 on: 14 October 2018, 18:58:23 »
One Ping Only
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Dave Talley

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Re: Rapid Tactical Response Unit - Creation project
« Reply #7 on: 14 October 2018, 22:55:34 »
one pingy dingy
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maxcarrion

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Re: Rapid Tactical Response Unit - Creation project
« Reply #8 on: 15 October 2018, 08:36:10 »
OK, so having had a look at the dropship landing/take off rules from TW and SO

An above average pilot (say PS 4) can put an aerodyne down on an airfield 450mx90m with minimal risk or damage (a flubbed landing should be easily absorbed by armour on the rare occasion)

They could shorten that distance a little with a breaking manoeuvre but the risk generally isn’t worth it as they could be forced into a calamitous landing.

They could however easily put it down on a field with obstructions, whether rubble, woods or gentle elevations, an undamaged leopard could easily take 10 points worth of landing penalties with no risk of complete destruction as the nose armour can soak significant punishment.  Maybe not as clean as bringing a spheroid down but certainly plausible that they will be able to find a landing field without having to travel too far providing they are willing to plough it themselves.  I think this makes it very plausible that they won’t have to travel far to find some sort of landing field for evac where required.

Vertical Landing in a leopard as per SO has a fair chance of catastrophic damage so I’d avoid it if I could, preferring ploughing through trees or leaving the strike force to cover another 10km.

Vertical Takeoff in a leopard is pretty risk light – so getting back in the air isn’t a problem unless there’s been serious damage.

Taking all that into consideration I think I’m going to stick with an Aerodyne as the ability to fly low and fast and manoeuvre in atmosphere is, at least in the specific case of highly mobile special forces insertion where every unit can be dropped, worth the compromise of making it more difficult to get the lander on the ground to facilitate evac.  Depending on the specific mission.

I think it’s perfectly plausible that in many cases a decently mobile force will be dropped near target for a rapid strike but will be perfectly comfortable travelling on land a hundred km or more back to the secure airfield to get back to their dropship

Iron Grenadier

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Re: Rapid Tactical Response Unit - Creation project
« Reply #9 on: 15 October 2018, 09:12:07 »
Are you thinking this is a House unit or a specialized mercenary unit?


Possible alternative dropship - Aurora.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Aurora


maxcarrion

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Re: Rapid Tactical Response Unit - Creation project
« Reply #10 on: 15 October 2018, 10:47:14 »
Are you thinking this is a House unit or a specialized mercenary unit?


Possible alternative dropship - Aurora.
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Aurora

Most of my BT experience takes place in various AU’s so I haven’t really tried to place this specifically into the BT verse.  It’s primarily conceptual as to how to approach this problem then a specific deployment.   Positionally it belongs as part of a military defence force on a developed world with a sizable enough industrial base to be worth protecting but not so utterly industrialised as to have global defence force coverage.  A combination of factors that I could see as both affording and benefiting from a rapid response force. 

This world might have a couple of battalions of Tanks and several regiments of infantry in the militia, maybe a few squadron of ASF and a couple of droppers but have comparatively little response to, say, a small force in a hundred square miles of cave system that perform hit and run attacks or train and equip terrorist insurgents on a sparsely populated continent or a lance of enemy battlemechs that have been harassing mining operations but disappear off into the jungle whenever serious forces show up.  I expect situations like this exist throughout the Houses and other major powers in the BT verse and a unit like this might be permanently situated on a single world or be shipped from trouble hotspot to trouble hotspot – similarly BT wise they could be highly specialised mercs – but I would expect them to fit more into a dedicated military structure

And yes, the Aurora could do the job just fine - a little less space with only 764T total cargo compared to the leopards 900 but lighter and cheaper and perfectly capable as an alternative.

maxcarrion

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Re: Rapid Tactical Response Unit - Creation project
« Reply #11 on: 16 October 2018, 05:44:12 »
Weight Budgeting

OK, assuming I have 900T of space to work from (4 mech and 2 ASF bays) I can look at breaking that down into the main elements.  Off the top of my head I think I can probably try

Armour Element – 300T – some combination of 2 mechs, 3 heavy vee or 6 light vee – personally I’m leaning somewhat towards a couple of fast medium mechs – maybe with IJJ (5/8/8 or so) to keep up with the WIGE over rough terrain.  6 WIGE tanks might have a little more punch but attrition would be much higher as they lose mobility under heavy fire.

Mech Inf Element – 300T – 6 light IFV each carrying a unit of integrated BA – in my experience a 50T XLFE WIGE can easily carry a platoon sized bay of 3-6T
-   6 light BA would make a solid “tactical marine” squad and fit in a 4.5T bay
-   10 PA(L) suits would also fit in a 4.5T bay – with half a ton left over for equipment space - this would suit, say, a tech detachment (explosives/computer/mechanic/operations etc)
-   4 Medium BA suits would also fit in a 4.5T bay allowing the flexibility to bring some heavier suits where appropriate
If we assume 4x6 light, 1x10 PA(L) and 1x4 mediums we end up with a 40 man infantry platoon which seems reasonable for achieving the kinds of objectives I’ve been envisioning - all 6 IFV can carry the same 4.5T bay

Support Element – 300T – here I’m thinking we can cover several of the support desirables off
-   I really think we need some cargo space – for spare BA suits, mission equipment, even food/ammo, we also might want to take something away, so I’m thinking 50T of cargo space on the leopard
-   In my last project I created a support WIGE with a light vehicle bay – dedicating 100T to housing 1 of those or something like it would allow us to recover an immobilised light vehicle quickly or give us a large cargo bay where that is a mission requirement.
-   That leaves us with 150T, I think a couple of scout WIGE would enhance the unit nicely for 100T
-   Maybe an A4 launcher on a WIGE chassis, that would allow us to detonate/lay larger mine fields provide some anti air fire or artillery support.  I’m not sure this brings enough to the party and could easily be another 50T of main cargo space

Daryk

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Re: Rapid Tactical Response Unit - Creation project
« Reply #12 on: 16 October 2018, 16:31:26 »
Another thought for the armor element: 1 'Mech and 3 WIGEs.  That would also round out your combat vehicles to 12 (4 here, 6 IFVs, 2 Scouts).  As for artillery, a Thumper weighs the same as an Arrow IV launcher, and is four times as ammunition efficient (20 shots per ton).  True, it's less damage, but if you're going after lighter forces anyway, it might be enough.  A different approach for that would be to mount the artillery (whatever it is) on the DropShip.

DOC_Agren

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Re: Rapid Tactical Response Unit - Creation project
« Reply #13 on: 16 October 2018, 19:35:37 »
What about using a Confederate Dropship instead of a Leopard?
and u could pull 2 LL and ML for a Thumper and take 4 tons ammo (Cluster, Copperhead if have units with Tag (Normal Otherwise), Smoke [or if u can mix 10 and 10 Illumination], Thunder) to provide limited Arty support for the unit.

Given that the Dropship the Unit just a Firebase/Rally Point I think this would work just as good as Leopard and land and take off easier.
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Dave Talley

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Re: Rapid Tactical Response Unit - Creation project
« Reply #14 on: 16 October 2018, 19:42:22 »
a Seeker works too, a lance plus a battalion of vehicles and infantry both with room for customizing
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maxcarrion

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Re: Rapid Tactical Response Unit - Creation project
« Reply #15 on: 17 October 2018, 06:01:22 »
Both the Confederate and the Seeker are spheroid and I'm looking to go the more covert, low altitude manuever,  sneak in under the radar, drop from commercial airspace and approach on the ground, infiltrate and pounce sort of force.  Whereas the spheroids are much more of a 30 seconds warning as they drop from the sky, hope your AAA knocks them down before they land in the middle of your compound spilling out assault mechs and blow you apart before jumping back in and leaving before reinforcements can arrive kind of feel to me.

In many missions the dropship should never be identified by the target as a hostile in these missions and the first thing they should see is the bullet holes appearing in their sentries from the stealthily approached infantry force or the first volley of missiles comes flying overhead although they should also be capable of the low level flyover hotdrop manuever which can also challenge the ubiquitous spheroid.  For example a quick assault on an enemy held spaceport to knock out AAA before bringing in the spheroids.

My main reason for even considering an artillery piece is because an infantry unit could paint a target - like a communication array - and call in a missile strike from a safe distance.  Since I do not want my dropship anywhere near the fight on the ground I think mounting the artillery on it wouldn't work out.  I also think this is a good case for the punching power of the arrow over the sustained fire of the thumper - this isn't a siege unit and would be terribly inefficient if deployed in a situation that calls for sustained artillery barrage.

I am somewhat tempted to do a second unit after this one though - one that is much more drop a little spheroid right down their throat and come out shooting.



maxcarrion

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Re: Rapid Tactical Response Unit - Creation project
« Reply #16 on: 17 October 2018, 06:01:33 »
As to the armour element - I'm just not sure.  I feel like WIGE tanks will not bring much that the WIGE IFV cannot do but slightly better, they'll struggle against exactly the same enemies - especially anything packing an LB-X which will just cripple them in short order - my other leading option, the battlemech, will take 150T of dropship space for an, at most, 55T unit for the speed profiles I would be looking for.  They will give a strong option against, say, an LB-5X armed tank though and give something that can take substantial fire without getting immobilised.  Are there any other decent options?  Assault BA mounted on a WIGE APC? More IFVs with Medium BA?

DOC_Agren

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Re: Rapid Tactical Response Unit - Creation project
« Reply #17 on: 17 October 2018, 14:07:24 »
So you looking for a Covert Ops style Aerodyne Dropship what about using an uparmored and gunned Buccaneer [see the Buccaneer Rezak (a.k.a. Red Raider)].  It is a Cargo Ship so it should not scream Combat Dropable Combat Unit, like if I see an Leopard.

Now for why a concealed Artillery piece onboard, it's more to help with specific precision targets (using copperhead rounds) and to provide firecover (Cluster) and support fire (Smoke [or if u can mix 10 and 10 Illumination], Thunder) for the team in the field.  Now with a Thumper you can be up to 21 boards vrs 8 for an Arrow IV from where your combat assets are engaged and still lend them support if needed if not the cannon is not deployed.

In my mind based on what you are saying your BA and PAL forces are your primary force to get their target(s).  WIGE assets and any mechs are just mobile fire support units and transport after all it is hard be covert in a Mech and can't be easy in WIGE.  But this force isn't going to take down a more then a lance of raiders, but might be able to take down the planetary defense HQ to allow the main force to engage.

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maxcarrion

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Re: Rapid Tactical Response Unit - Creation project
« Reply #18 on: 17 October 2018, 14:43:29 »
Yeah, covert is a large part of it as non covert can be fairly efficiently done with more conventional spheroids and mechs/armour and striking targets in the open can be done by air and orbital assets.

I really like the idea of a modified civilian dropper, the buccaneer is rather larger than a leopard which means this whole project would be rather more expensive but that's also an opportunity to try and fit in a little more capability. 

Daryk

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Re: Rapid Tactical Response Unit - Creation project
« Reply #19 on: 17 October 2018, 16:09:31 »
If you're looking at 55 ton 'mechs, I recommend at least a 5 ton infantry bay on the vehicles.  That way they can carry a downed 'mech away, if slowly.

maxcarrion

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Re: Rapid Tactical Response Unit - Creation project
« Reply #20 on: 18 October 2018, 04:36:54 »
So, if we’re assuming we’re increasing size up to 1500T or more of cargo (for the Buccaneer) we can slip in a couple of extra luxuries.  My first thought is a pair of small craft bays.  A couple of VTOL Aerodyne shuttles totting a pair of light vehicle bays each allow us a couple of new capabilities.

Independent mission drops/collection/rescue – these shuttles would each be capable of dropping off 2 of the combat vehicles each to reposition, run a smaller scale independent mission, ferry up to the dropper where landing space is tight, collecting immobile vehicles  etc.

They could also bring down assets that cannot easily be hot dropped, for example we could include a support VTOL with 4 lift hoists which a shuttle can put on the ground and send it to pick up a battlemech to ferry it to the main extraction site (I can’t find a rule that says WIGE cannot do the lift hoist lift but it definitely shouldn’t work). 

The dropper could also be resupplied without leaving its ready station – say if it was lurking in orbit.

Between the VTOL and the Shuttles I think we could probably drop the logistics WIGE.

Not sure what Daryk is getting at with the 5T bays – is it a little spare space to fit scrap in?

So a rough roster might be
2x shuttles – 400T
12x WIGE IFV (2x10PAL,2x4Med,8x6Light) – 600T
2x Thumper WIGE (I’m sold they could be useful, let’s make the Thumpers available whether we land the dropper or not) – 100T
1x Lift VTOL – 50T
2x Recon WIGE – 100T
2x Mech – 300T
1550T total – assuming the shuttle vehicle bays are full that’ll all fit in 1350T of bays leaving 150T on something with the same cargo capacity as the Red Raider and doubles the BA compliment. 

A WIGE IFV this size can easily mount a PPC or Plasma Rifle or similar along with the BA bay and some secondaries and decent armour so we’d be looking at comparable combat power to the same number of myrmidons.  Plus 2 mechs I think this unit could press a regular assault lance or most armour companies without the BA getting involved.  With close to 80 BA forming the core objective taking unit.

maxcarrion

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Re: Rapid Tactical Response Unit - Creation project
« Reply #21 on: 18 October 2018, 08:22:29 »
Re-reading the artillery rules

A WIGE cannot fire a thumper while airborne - so no moving and firing
A copperhead thumper does 1/4 of the damage of a homing A4

I think the WIGE are probably better off toting A4 and getting reasonably close to the action as they can maintain great mobility.  potentially the Buccaneer could mount a longer range gun like a thumper or even a long tom although I would be concerned about counter battery fire taking out our prime mover.  Maybe we can squeeze one onto the shuttles

Daryk

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Re: Rapid Tactical Response Unit - Creation project
« Reply #22 on: 18 October 2018, 17:20:24 »
A 50 ton vehicle with 5 tons of cargo capacity can carry a 55 ton 'mech.  That's all I was getting at...

 

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