Author Topic: Known useful thrust ratings?  (Read 4475 times)

Goose

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Known useful thrust ratings?
« on: 24 May 2019, 15:13:36 »
I once worked out how useful a thrust of eight was in the high atmosphere … but am drawing a blank on any similar such rating. :-\

Are there not any other useful thrust values, an any for conventional fighters?
Goose
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Daryk

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Re: Known useful thrust ratings?
« Reply #1 on: 24 May 2019, 15:15:31 »
Honestly, the only one I can think of is "one or two more than the other guy"...

Goose

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Re: Known useful thrust ratings?
« Reply #2 on: 25 May 2019, 16:15:32 »
… Heh. ^-^

Did I say I worked it out?

It was Weirdo.
Goose
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The_Caveman

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Re: Known useful thrust ratings?
« Reply #3 on: 26 May 2019, 10:12:17 »
I'll take more armor and more fuel over more thrust any day. Anything over 5/8 is just showing off, and anything over 8/12 can potentially kill the crew.
Half the fun of BattleTech is the mental gymnastics required to scientifically rationalize design choices made decades ago entirely based on the Rule of Cool.

The other half is a first-turn AC/2 shot TAC to your gyro that causes your Atlas to fall and smash its own cockpit... wait, I said fun didn't I?

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Re: Known useful thrust ratings?
« Reply #4 on: 26 May 2019, 11:00:34 »
The really useful thrust breaks are in Alpha Strike, where certain thresholds mean you get to move faster on the radar map.
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Goose

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Re: Known useful thrust ratings?
« Reply #5 on: 27 May 2019, 17:33:45 »
… The same ol' "thrust 10 moves two" line? For the Radar Map? :-\

There must be more to it then just this …
Goose
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Weirdo

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Re: Known useful thrust ratings?
« Reply #6 on: 27 May 2019, 23:43:01 »
There is more, in the AS errata.
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SeeM

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Re: Known useful thrust ratings?
« Reply #7 on: 28 May 2019, 16:50:26 »
Since there are no woods and hills in space map, I usually get where I want even with 3/5.

High thrust is really working only in pair with high velocity and high velocity needs a big map. I often play on Aerotech 1 mapsheets with arrows, where I have a lot of space and high movement really helps with those arrows. On a pair of 16x17 mapsheets there is no space for high velocities.
« Last Edit: 28 May 2019, 16:52:02 by SeeM »
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Goose

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Re: Known useful thrust ratings?
« Reply #8 on: 28 May 2019, 18:20:47 »
 xp Sooooo there's this whole thing on pp.19 of the errata pdf, and nowhere else, when a thrust of seven is all you need, most of the time, and ten the rest?

And I'm still on the island where eleven was a standard?
Goose
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Daryk

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Re: Known useful thrust ratings?
« Reply #9 on: 28 May 2019, 18:28:53 »
Well, 7/11 seems to cover both of your bases there...

Weirdo

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Re: Known useful thrust ratings?
« Reply #10 on: 29 May 2019, 08:35:52 »
Bear in mind, he's talking about the Alpha Strike errata, where Max Thrust isn't a thing.

Long story short: AS aero uses the radar map to track air movement. Most aeros can move one sector per turn. If you have thrust 7 or higher you can move two sectors in certain parts of the map. If you have thrust 10 or higher(or just higher than 10, I forget offhand, but you get my drift), you can move two sectors at all times.

And of course, having higher thrust than your opponent is always better when making the engagement roll.
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nckestrel

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Re: Known useful thrust ratings?
« Reply #11 on: 29 May 2019, 09:06:02 »
All of that will be thrown out with the ASCE... as far as certain thrust ratings being a break point with special rules at those break points.
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Re: Known useful thrust ratings?
« Reply #12 on: 29 May 2019, 09:25:04 »
Well, here's hoping the new rules have something similar. I really liked the benefits to fast fighters, it made interceptors an actual thing, as opposed to a meaningless term.
My wife writes books
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"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
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The_Caveman

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Re: Known useful thrust ratings?
« Reply #13 on: 29 May 2019, 10:44:41 »
"Fast" fighters are kind of a dumb idea with the construction rules the way they are. The construction rules were designed for Star Wars style flight mechanics with fixed top speeds and banked turns in space, while the actual game rules are Newtonian-ish (or apparently just handwaved in AS), and the two intersect poorly. Since they gimped the bomb loads in AT2, something like a Vandal is just silly.
Half the fun of BattleTech is the mental gymnastics required to scientifically rationalize design choices made decades ago entirely based on the Rule of Cool.

The other half is a first-turn AC/2 shot TAC to your gyro that causes your Atlas to fall and smash its own cockpit... wait, I said fun didn't I?

Weirdo

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Re: Known useful thrust ratings?
« Reply #14 on: 29 May 2019, 11:11:27 »
Try them in an atmosphere.
My wife writes books
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"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
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The_Caveman

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Re: Known useful thrust ratings?
« Reply #15 on: 29 May 2019, 12:44:46 »
Try them in an atmosphere.

Yeah I still prefer slower designs with more armor and big fuel tanks even there. You hemorrhage fuel in atmo during tactical combat and velocity offers no protection. As long as the design has some leftover thrust with a full bombload, it's enough.
Half the fun of BattleTech is the mental gymnastics required to scientifically rationalize design choices made decades ago entirely based on the Rule of Cool.

The other half is a first-turn AC/2 shot TAC to your gyro that causes your Atlas to fall and smash its own cockpit... wait, I said fun didn't I?

Weirdo

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Re: Known useful thrust ratings?
« Reply #16 on: 29 May 2019, 13:27:34 »
I dunno, having enough thrust to stay out of weapons range when you lose initiative and then dash into a blind spot when you win is pretty fun.
My wife writes books
"Thanks to Megamek, I can finally play BattleTech the way it was meant to be played--pantsless!"   -Neko Bijin
"...finally, giant space panties don't seem so strange." - Whistler
"Damn you, Weirdo... Damn you for being right!" - Paul
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Goose

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Re: Known useful thrust ratings?
« Reply #17 on: 01 June 2019, 15:14:53 »
Wait: Am I reading that no-one really plays in an atmosphere? They just sit and pivot in a Reavers, up in LEO, or something?
« Last Edit: 01 June 2019, 15:56:45 by Goose »
Goose
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The_Caveman

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Re: Known useful thrust ratings?
« Reply #18 on: 03 June 2019, 16:25:23 »
I use fighters in atmosphere. I like conventional fighters as support units. I just don't think the juice of a high thrust rating merits the squeeze in any environment.
Half the fun of BattleTech is the mental gymnastics required to scientifically rationalize design choices made decades ago entirely based on the Rule of Cool.

The other half is a first-turn AC/2 shot TAC to your gyro that causes your Atlas to fall and smash its own cockpit... wait, I said fun didn't I?

BloodRose

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Re: Known useful thrust ratings?
« Reply #19 on: 18 June 2019, 08:15:37 »
I don't think I have ever played an Aerotech game and just about every fighter I have has seen combat. Atmo play is fun  ;D
>MOC - 3rd Canopian Fusiliers         >Capellan Confederation - Holdfast Guard
>Lyrians - 5th Donegal Guard          >Free Worlds League - 1st Oriente Hussars
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Weirdo

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Re: Known useful thrust ratings?
« Reply #20 on: 18 June 2019, 08:16:52 »
You've never played aero, but you've used aeros. I'm confused...
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BloodRose

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Re: Known useful thrust ratings?
« Reply #21 on: 18 June 2019, 08:19:16 »
Never played aerotech - I use aeros in standard BattleTech play, admittedly usually when playing with large maps. As of yet we have never bothered to track them off the field of play just because its a bit much of a hassle but we really should sometime - it would give the ASF's an advantage over the CF's as they can climb higher.
>MOC - 3rd Canopian Fusiliers         >Capellan Confederation - Holdfast Guard
>Lyrians - 5th Donegal Guard          >Free Worlds League - 1st Oriente Hussars
>Federated Suns - 2nd NAIS           >Word of Blake/Comstar - undecided unit
>Draconis Combine - 1st Genyosha  >Clan Jade Falcon - Delta Galaxy
>Escorpion Imperio - Seeker Cluster >Pirates - Harlocks Marauders
>Mercs - Roses Heavy Lancers          >Mercs - Reinhold's Raiders
>Mercs/specops - Mausers Shreckenkorps >Mercs - Idol Squadron

Weirdo

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Re: Known useful thrust ratings?
« Reply #22 on: 18 June 2019, 08:22:22 »
So you have played aero, you've just never played an aero-only game. Gotcha.
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BloodRose

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Re: Known useful thrust ratings?
« Reply #23 on: 18 June 2019, 18:38:34 »
Yep. Im interested in running aero only, or more of a focus on aero but its probably best to wait until my players are more comfortable with the rules first.
>MOC - 3rd Canopian Fusiliers         >Capellan Confederation - Holdfast Guard
>Lyrians - 5th Donegal Guard          >Free Worlds League - 1st Oriente Hussars
>Federated Suns - 2nd NAIS           >Word of Blake/Comstar - undecided unit
>Draconis Combine - 1st Genyosha  >Clan Jade Falcon - Delta Galaxy
>Escorpion Imperio - Seeker Cluster >Pirates - Harlocks Marauders
>Mercs - Roses Heavy Lancers          >Mercs - Reinhold's Raiders
>Mercs/specops - Mausers Shreckenkorps >Mercs - Idol Squadron

idea weenie

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Re: Known useful thrust ratings?
« Reply #24 on: 21 June 2019, 06:06:40 »
Yep. Im interested in running aero only, or more of a focus on aero but its probably best to wait until my players are more comfortable with the rules first.

One idea to help them get used to the Newtonian physics, would be a hex map for an asteroid race.

Take a write-on wipe-off hex map, approx 2 feet by 3 feet, with hexes ~half an inch wide.  Draw two ovals on it, one inside the other, aligned with the orientation of the map.  Draw 3 lines from the interior oval to the exterior oval, and each line is a different color (i.e. red, green, blue).  The area between the ovals is the race track.

Each of the 3 players selects a color, and their pod starts on the line appropriate to that color.  The goal is to use Newtonian thrust and Aerotech rules for thrust canceling to make your pod proceed around the track and get back to its starting color line.  The pods only have Thrust of 1, but effectively unlimited fuel.  The players basically color in a hex that represents where they will be at the end of the turn (after adjusting for thrust).  They record their thrust and velocity each turn.

If they go outside the track, they have to go back to a prior spot where they were inside the track, erasing where they would have been.

This way they are taught that an object in motion will remain in motion, thrust early can make a major difference later on, don't go outside the lines, and opposite thrusts canceling each other.

Hellraiser

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Re: Known useful thrust ratings?
« Reply #25 on: 02 July 2019, 00:34:07 »
I'm with Weirdo on this.

Light ASF might get killed by Heavies up in Zero-G but on a good old fashion AT1 map sheet they ROCK in atmosphere.

Stuff like the Sparrowhawk & Seydlitz truly shine when they can flat out, outmaneuver the enemy fighters & stay in their rear arc.

Flying with wingmen will help against that but god help you if your solo against a faster bird.

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Kidd

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Re: Known useful thrust ratings?
« Reply #26 on: 02 July 2019, 00:54:17 »
All of that will be thrown out with the ASCE... as far as certain thrust ratings being a break point with special rules at those break points.
ASCE?

Daryk

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Re: Known useful thrust ratings?
« Reply #27 on: 02 July 2019, 03:31:33 »
Alpha Strike Commander's Edition...

Cannonshop

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Re: Known useful thrust ratings?
« Reply #28 on: 03 July 2019, 22:02:10 »
Wait: Am I reading that no-one really plays in an atmosphere? They just sit and pivot in a Reavers, up in LEO, or something?

I kind of got in the habit of using air-strikes for ground combat and low-altitude air support using designs like the SB-27 as precision bomb-trucks.  even did it in the FC-'62 game, on Megamek.  some of the outcomes were hilarious, but I got hooked.

High base thrust is helpful for bomb-trucking, especially if your airframes aren't the largest.
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Col Toda

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Re: Known useful thrust ratings?
« Reply #29 on: 16 July 2019, 06:51:54 »
I agree with Caveman Armor and Fuel over Thrust . You want dead minimum A threshold number of 8-10 on the wings and 15 on the Nose and aft with enough weapons to make faster less armored opponants pay in critical threats

 

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