Author Topic: Zenithal spray cans + contrast paint - Space Wolf Grey - advice wanted  (Read 2760 times)

Wargame_insomniac

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Hi. I have been painting minis to a basic tabletop standard for years from 6mm to 30mm scale using standard methos of base colour, shading and edge highlighting. However a couple of recent health issues including deteriorating eyesight (I barely have any vision in one eye) has adversely affected my ability and enjoyment of painting. Basically, it was too tiring and so I ended up with LOADS of unfinished projects.  I needed to find a simpler way of painting that could work for me…...

Firstly, several of my friends who are expert painters were talking about Zenithal highlighting. They did it properly using airbrushes, which I am not yet ready for, but I did see several people use spray paints as a basic Zenithal highlight. e.g. light overall spray of black undercoat, then a lighter Zenithal spray of grey or bone from a higher angle (to leave the lower areas darker), before an even lighter Zenithal spray of white from above (so that higher areas are lightest).

Secondly, they used Citadel Contrast / Army Painter Speedpaints as base coat and used that paint's ability plus the Zenithal highlights to provide one coat shading and highlights. And then quick drybrush for final highlighting base colour before painting weapons / vents etc.

Looking at the new (to me) Clan Invasion KS plastic minis, these two methods combined look as if they would do a good job given the level of detailing etc. So I would like to give it a first try. I don't want to mess up my intended main factions with fancier canon paint schemes, so I thought I would start as simple and gain some confidence doing it in practice.

So I thought I would start doing a handful of spare mechs as a non-cannon mercenary / periphery / security force that, if I screw up first time, is n’t a big deal. I already have a load of GW Contrast Paint Space Wolves Grey for main colour (and dark red for shoulder pads as a secondary colour).

I have Chaos Black for initial overall undercoat, either Grey Seer or Wraithbone as secondary Zenithal, and White for final Zenithal. I then have both Russ Grey and Fenrisian Grey for drybrushing further highlights.

So how does that sound?

Is it a stupid idea or has anyone done anything similar?

I am presuming that Wraithbone as initial Zenithal spray would give a warmer colour than using Grey Seer. Which would work better before Space Wolf Grey Contrast base colour?
I am leaning towards they Grey Seer as the more cautious choice between the two?

I know I said it was n’t my main Faction's force, but I am still feeling very nervous about trying such a new way of painting. But it might be all that my poor eyesight can manage. And I am keen to start painting the Wave 1-2 mechs before the Mercenaries KS finishes!!  ;D ;D
« Last Edit: 14 August 2022, 15:02:15 by Wargame_insomniac »

RazorclawXLS

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The zenithal priming with rattle cans is a viable alternative to doing zenithal with airbrush.

I haven't worked with Army Painter speedpaints, but I've seen people complaining that they are good only when doing "simple" schemes with single color passes over the areas that need painting. It's because their drying time is a lot longer so they tend to get reactivated when being painted over by another color, for instance if you are painting camo.

I have worked with GW's Contrast paints, so I want to remind you that Contrast paints are dependent on what base color they are applied to (needs to be a white, off whire or light gray base, with sating finish).

To work as efficiently as possible, they are meant to be used over the so called "contrast" primer or basecoat. In essence, they will have the best "contrast" effect if used on a primer or the base color that is not matte, but satin, or gloss.

You can use Grey Seer or Wraithbone, as those paints are satin and were released together with the Contrast line, just so you can correct errors with them. (when correcting errors on surface with contrast paint you have to apply the base color first, then the contrast).

I am not sure if Chaos Black primer has a satin finish. If it doesn't, you can probably do a thin layer of Abbadon Black over it with a brush, as that color also has a satin finish. Then do Grey Seer (or Wraithbone) as the middle step, and as the last step use some satin white.

Wargame_insomniac

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The zenithal priming with rattle cans is a viable alternative to doing zenithal with airbrush.

I haven't worked with Army Painter speedpaints, but I've seen people complaining that they are good only when doing "simple" schemes with single color passes over the areas that need painting. It's because their drying time is a lot longer so they tend to get reactivated when being painted over by another color, for instance if you are painting camo.

I have worked with GW's Contrast paints, so I want to remind you that Contrast paints are dependent on what base color they are applied to (needs to be a white, off whire or light gray base, with sating finish).

To work as efficiently as possible, they are meant to be used over the so called "contrast" primer or basecoat. In essence, they will have the best "contrast" effect if used on a primer or the base color that is not matte, but satin, or gloss.

You can use Grey Seer or Wraithbone, as those paints are satin and were released together with the Contrast line, just so you can correct errors with them. (when correcting errors on surface with contrast paint you have to apply the base color first, then the contrast).

I am not sure if Chaos Black primer has a satin finish. If it doesn't, you can probably do a thin layer of Abbadon Black over it with a brush, as that color also has a satin finish. Then do Grey Seer (or Wraithbone) as the middle step, and as the last step use some satin white.
Yes - I have spent a bit of time watching various reviews of GW Contrast Paints and Army Painter Speedpaints. The fact that the latter reacyivate unless you seal with varnish does put me off. Also I personally do NOT like dropper bottles. I know many who do - that fine for them. And the fact that I already HAVE the GW Contrast Paint Space Wolves Grey makes it a no brainer for me to give it a try.

And yes I know that GW recommend using their satin finish Grey Seer / Wraithbone spray paints (and pots of both of these layer paints for touchups). As I said in my initial post, I already have both Grey Seer and Wraithbone so that is fine.

Thanks for the hint of doing a thin layer of Abbadon Black over Chaos Black spray. I was nt sure if I needed that if the Chaos Black was only the base undercoat before the two Zenithal spray paints. Its great to get feedback of those who have used them in practice.

Re satin white, presumably then I could use GW's new White Scar spray rather their old Corax White spray?

sounguru

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I understand the frustration and loss of joy I was there for 12+ years never touched a brush and thought I never would again much less enjoy it.

The priming method does work well when you are going for directional highlights and I like to use it although I haven't since my return. You just need to keep the paint layers thins show it shows though for best effect.

My question is have you tried a magnifying glasses or a headset? My eyesight has gone down over the years and these have been a boon when going finer work. I have used them since my return to painting and they are a life saver. I thought I would never paint again due to loss of eyesight and nerve damage until recently and stumbled back into it. If it wasn't for the magnifiers there is no way I would be able to paint.
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Wargame_insomniac

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I understand the frustration and loss of joy I was there for 12+ years never touched a brush and thought I never would again much less enjoy it.

The priming method does work well when you are going for directional highlights and I like to use it although I haven't since my return. You just need to keep the paint layers thins show it shows though for best effect.

My question is have you tried a magnifying glasses or a headset? My eyesight has gone down over the years and these have been a boon when going finer work. I have used them since my return to painting and they are a life saver. I thought I would never paint again due to loss of eyesight and nerve damage until recently and stumbled back into it. If it wasn't for the magnifiers there is no way I would be able to paint.
Thanks - I tried a lit magnifying glass to help - the problem is that as I have lost almost all vision in the one eye (from a previous corneal transplant failing) whilst the other eye still sees well, I have no depth perception - and the magnifying glass did nt help with that.

What I have found is that old style painting highlights etc really sucks but using Contrast Paints and washes is easier as the paint flows more easily and so the lack of depth perception knoing when the brush is going to touch the mini is easir to cope with for me.

So far I have started two lots of Battletech Battalions, painting 4-6 mechs at a time but switching between the two colour schemes for a bit of variety. Both Battaliians are intended to be more Op For's - one mercenary and one periphery. The idea wa to practice on these two units before I start painting my main forces so that I can practice these new techniques to me.

So far I have gone for a Grey and Red periphery force (that could also serve as Kuritan militia) using Black / Grey / White sprays before Grey Contrast Paint - almost finished the first dozen of these mechs. And then for variety I am in between doing a Brown and Green mercenary force (that could also serve as a Davion militia) using Black / Bone / White sprays - I will then use Brown Contrast Paint.

Still a learning process to me as how much to use the two zenithal sprays, hence practising on my secondary forces to learn the techniques.

I will try and post pictures if better light tomorrow evening.

Wargame_insomniac

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Hi. I took an WIP pic on my mobile phone - hopethe lighting is enough.

These need cleaning up from this afternoon's red drybrush. They need one final drybrush of both grey and red, tidying up of black and then metallics on weapon barrels etc, before basing.

I am still learning on Zenithal sprays - I suspect I overdid the first and second Zenithal.
Also first time trying using Contrast Paints. To be honest my first painting in several years and the first since my loss of most of my eyesight in left eye.

These are to represent Opfor as planetary militia / periphery / pirate forces.
« Last Edit: 23 October 2022, 16:19:23 by Wargame_insomniac »

Wargame_insomniac

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Not made any progress these last three months. Work has been manic with a new boss changing EVERYTHING for the annual Budgets, and I have been struggling recently with a couple of my health issues. Bit of a triple whammy as all three lead to my feeling absolutely drained and exhausted, and thus too tired for painting or hobbying.

Hoping that these three things will all improve and, as daylight increases, I am hoping that will be able to find both the time and the motivation to paint either on my free evenings or the weekend.

So trying to plan ahead. My intention was to have a pair of forces representing generic mercenaries / militia, so that can use for Op For etc. Ideally I wanted both forcs to be based on a core of the Clan Invasion KS Wave 1 mechs (i.e. Beginner Box, AGOAC, IS Command Lance and IS Battle Lance), so that the bulk of choices are the same, and then adding a few other mechs for flavour. (e.g. Centurion, Hatchetman and Wolfhound for one force; Dragon, Jenner and Panther for other).

I am struggling to work out what mechs would work best to complete a Lance made up of the classic 55ton trio: Wolverine, Griffon and Shadowhawk. They all move either 5/8/5 or 5/8/3.

Before anyone jumps in and siggest Phoenix Hawk, I CANT do that as I've put PH as command mech in my Scout Lance, which I am totally happy with and don't want to change.

My three current options are: Commando, Valkyrie and Jenner, for which I have the figures in hand.  Any other choices would have to limited to Wave Two mechs, but I would have to buy additional Lance Packs.

The Commando moves at 6/9/0, so could keep up with trio but lacks jump jets.
The Valkyrie can move 5/8/5, so matches the trio perfectly.
The Jenner can mov 7/11/5, so offers a bit of speed as the Lance's flanker.

Which of these three mechs would fit best with the 55 ton trio??

Kerfuffin(925)

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I would say the Jenner, can mix it up with the Wolverine, and let the other two support at range. And like you said it can flank.

The Valk has to stay at range with IS LRMs being what they are. And the commando is fairly fragile and will fall behind quickly in rough terrain, and it doesn’t have any range to back that up, even in what passes for range in the SW era
NCKestrel’s new favorite.

Wargame_insomniac

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I would say the Jenner, can mix it up with the Wolverine, and let the other two support at range. And like you said it can flank.

The Valk has to stay at range with IS LRMs being what they are. And the commando is fairly fragile and will fall behind quickly in rough terrain, and it doesn’t have any range to back that up, even in what passes for range in the SW era
Hi - thanks for the feedback. Those were 3 spare mechs I had to hand. But given ut will probably be a few more weeks before I can resume painting them, I could probably another Lance Pack or two.

If I widened the choice to any other Inner Speher 3025 mechs that were in Wave Two, ar there any other mechs you would recommend to go with the classic 55 ton trio??

Thanks

sneakylikeajavelin

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It's not in Wave Two, but the Gladiator is in the Proliferation Pack that should be available soon. It also fits in well with your militia/mercenaries theme as well, since for some reason in-universe it's not a popular 'mech so it tends to end up in the units at the bottom of the quartermaster's priority list.

Personally I'm planning to grab one to put in a lance with the 55 ton trio. Its 5/8/5 movement profile fits perfectly and it's got a nice set of weapons for bracket firing (PPC at range, 2xML and SRM6 in close) so I think it'll work well as a "bodyguard" for the Griffin.

The photo you posted looks good. I was hoping to try contrast paint over zenithal to try to power through my backlog of grey plastic so it's great to see the results! Now I just need to order some paints...

Wargame_insomniac

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It's not in Wave Two, but the Gladiator is in the Proliferation Pack that should be available soon. It also fits in well with your militia/mercenaries theme as well, since for some reason in-universe it's not a popular 'mech so it tends to end up in the units at the bottom of the quartermaster's priority list.

Personally I'm planning to grab one to put in a lance with the 55 ton trio. Its 5/8/5 movement profile fits perfectly and it's got a nice set of weapons for bracket firing (PPC at range, 2xML and SRM6 in close) so I think it'll work well as a "bodyguard" for the Griffin.

The photo you posted looks good. I was hoping to try contrast paint over zenithal to try to power through my backlog of grey plastic so it's great to see the results! Now I just need to order some paints...
Thanks. I had to look up the IS Gladiator as I had nt come across it before. Sounds could fit in well. I would like at least one Security Lance for this militia force so it might fit in there.

 

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