Author Topic: Design challenge: So you found yourself some relics....  (Read 666 times)

Liam's Ghost

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Design challenge: So you found yourself some relics....
« on: 02 December 2023, 00:17:18 »
Parameters: You are a representative of a state at some point after the start of the Clan Invasion which has recently come across the ruins of a lost Star League naval yard. While the majority of the massive complex appears to have been destroyed by nuclear scuttling charges sometime in the distant past, a deep excavation has uncovered an intact portion of the facility still containing roughly fifty or sixty small capital ships, along with maybe a hundred small, very obsolete dropships.

Your leadership wants a plan for upgrading these ships and bringing them back into service.

The classes you have access to that are deemed worthy of attention are as follows

Lola I class destroyer
Cruiser class cruiser
Essex I class destroyer
Bonaventure class corvette
Vigilant class corvette
Tracker class surveillance ship
Nightwing class surveillance ship
Drost IIA dropship
Drost IIB dropship
Manatee dropship

So what do you do with them?

Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Design challenge: So you found yourself some relics....
« Reply #1 on: 02 December 2023, 00:44:47 »
For sake of argument, can we pretend the DrosT IIA is 5000 tons and fits in a DropShuttle bay?
"Does anyone know where the love of God goes / When the waves turn the minutes to hours?"
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Liam's Ghost

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Re: Design challenge: So you found yourself some relics....
« Reply #2 on: 02 December 2023, 01:03:25 »
For sake of argument, can we pretend the DrosT IIA is 5000 tons and fits in a DropShuttle bay?

I have no problem with that.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Design challenge: So you found yourself some relics....
« Reply #3 on: 02 December 2023, 01:15:20 »
OK, first up, I did a minimalist Lola I upgrade.

I'm operating under the assumption that massive hull changes, like adding a grav deck, are outside the reach of what they're able to do, so I didn't add one to the Lola I, despite it being one of the ship's most glaring flaws.  Since this is a Periphery power salvaging these ships from derelicts in a derelict yard, I'm also not doing things like major overhauls of the cooling and power distribution systems, so if they started with single heat sinks, they keep single heat sinks.

I waffled back and forth on whether or not to upgrade the armor from standard armor plate, then eventually decided to keep it the same armor type, once again under the assumption that reskinning the ship might be a bridge too far.  I considered tacking on another 35 tons of standard plate, which would allow another 14 points of armor, but decided the 48 point/side config is so central to the Lola's identity, even through the Caspar drones, that I ended up leaving that alone, too.  Perhaps it's a characteristic of its spaceframe, across any config, that it just can't carry more armor.

For weaponry, I standardized the naval lasers on NL55s, and swapped the single one in each broadside for another twin-laser turret like we see elsewhere.  My assumption is the nose and aft batteries are two twin-turrets.

The Lola I is the only one of the series to carry standard-grade weapons, and I doubled down on that, replacing the 32 standard-grade large lasers with 32 ER large lasers, throwing on another 32 large pulse lasers, then tacking on 16 AMS systems for good measure.  No, it's probably not the most efficient AMS layout, but I don't know that you'd see that kind of optimization prior to the Jihad.

Code: [Select]
Lola I Destroyer (3056)
Mass: 680,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3056
Mass: 680,000
Battle Value: 60,350
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-E-F
Cost: 6,652,383,840 C-bills

Fuel: 5,230 tons (13,075)
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Sail Integrity: 5
KF Drive Integrity: 15
Heat Sinks: 1,850
Structural Integrity: 50

Armor
    Nose: 48
    Fore Sides: 48/48
    Aft Sides: 48/48
    Aft: 48

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Fighter (6)             1 Door   
    Bay 2:  Small Craft (2)         1 Door   
    Bay 3:  Cargo (112003.0 tons)   1 Door   

Ammunition:
    300 rounds of NAC/10 ammunition (60 tons),
    960 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (8 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 0
Grav Decks: 0
Escape Pods: 20
Life Boats: 20
Crew:  39 officers, 142 enlisted/non-rated, 47 gunners, 22 bay personnel, 42 marines

Notes: Mounts 645 tons of standard aerospace armor.

Weapons:                                       Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                 Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (490 Heat)
4 Naval Laser 55                           340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
2 Naval Autocannon (NAC/10)                60   20(200) 20(200) 20(200)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/10 Ammo (20 shots)
4 ER Large Laser                           48   3(32)   3(32)   3(32)     0(0)   Laser       
4 Large Pulse Laser                        40   4(36)   4(36)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
2 Anti-Missile System                       2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (120 shots)
FRS/FLS (290 Heat)
2 Naval Laser 55                           170  11(110) 11(110) 11(110) 11(110)  Capital Laser
1 Naval Autocannon (NAC/10)                30   10(100) 10(100) 10(100)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/10 Ammo (20 shots)
4 ER Large Laser                           48   3(32)   3(32)   3(32)     0(0)   Laser       
4 Large Pulse Laser                        40   4(36)   4(36)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
2 Anti-Missile System                       2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (120 shots)
RBS/LBS (380 Heat)
4 Naval Autocannon (NAC/10)                120  40(400) 40(400) 40(400)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/10 Ammo (100 shots)
2 Naval Laser 55                           170  11(110) 11(110) 11(110) 11(110)  Capital Laser
4 ER Large Laser                           48   3(32)   3(32)   3(32)     0(0)   Laser       
4 Large Pulse Laser                        40   4(36)   4(36)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
2 Anti-Missile System                       2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (120 shots)
ARS/ALS (290 Heat)
2 Naval Laser 55                           170  11(110) 11(110) 11(110) 11(110)  Capital Laser
1 Naval Autocannon (NAC/10)                30   10(100) 10(100) 10(100)   0(0)   Capital AC 
    NAC/10 Ammo (20 shots)
4 ER Large Laser                           48   3(32)   3(32)   3(32)     0(0)   Laser       
4 Large Pulse Laser                        40   4(36)   4(36)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
2 Anti-Missile System                       2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (120 shots)
Aft (430 Heat)
4 Naval Laser 55                           340  22(220) 22(220) 22(220) 22(220)  Capital Laser
4 ER Large Laser                           48   3(32)   3(32)   3(32)     0(0)   Laser       
4 Large Pulse Laser                        40   4(36)   4(36)    0(0)     0(0)   Pulse Laser
2 Anti-Missile System                       2    1(6)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (120 shots)

"Does anyone know where the love of God goes / When the waves turn the minutes to hours?"
-- Gordon Lightfoot, "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald"

Daryk

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Re: Design challenge: So you found yourself some relics....
« Reply #4 on: 02 December 2023, 06:16:10 »
Are the Manatees stock cargo variants?

Maingunnery

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Re: Design challenge: So you found yourself some relics....
« Reply #5 on: 02 December 2023, 06:33:05 »

I would reskin the Tracker class surveillance ship to look exactly like a Merchant JumpShip.
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Liam's Ghost

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Re: Design challenge: So you found yourself some relics....
« Reply #6 on: 02 December 2023, 07:17:05 »
Are the Manatees stock cargo variants?

Either/or
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Liam's Ghost

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Re: Design challenge: So you found yourself some relics....
« Reply #7 on: 02 December 2023, 07:27:56 »
I would reskin the Tracker class surveillance ship to look exactly like a Merchant JumpShip.

So there may be a wrinkle in actually pulling that off.

By the rules the difficulty of detecting an emergence wave is based on the ship's drive integrity. The higher the drive integrity, the easier it is to detect (presumably it's a brighter emergence wave)

The Tracker has a higher drive integrity than a Merchant class Jumpship. The difference isn't actually high enough to modify the detection roll, but that still suggests the Tracker would have a brighter emergence wave than the Merchant.

Is that enough for someone to spot the deception the instant the Tracker came in system? I don't know. I would probably rule that a sophisticated sensor system (naval comm scanner) at the arrival point (and/or a really good sensor tech) might be able to tell the difference (but might not know what that difference means). Casual observation might not be able to tell the difference.

But that's what I would do. I only mention it because unlike other means of detecting a Q-ship, it's something that ship can't avoid flashing every time it comes into a system.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

(indirect accessory to the) Slayer of Monitors!

Daryk

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Re: Design challenge: So you found yourself some relics....
« Reply #8 on: 02 December 2023, 09:07:33 »
Either/or
Well, canonically, there were cargo and 'mech carrier variants.  I'd add an ASF carrier version as a "Q-ship".

Hazard Pay

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Re: Design challenge: So you found yourself some relics....
« Reply #9 on: 02 December 2023, 20:32:28 »
Neer really did an Aerospace entry before, but here's a Manatee. Originally I wanted to put in ELRMs, but decided to keep with the Laser Bays but added in more armor and new AMS to protect it.

Edit: Also, what'd be a good upgrade for the Vigilant? Other than LBX-10s in the Aft or a general compliment of AMS on each facing??

Edit II: So my idea for the Vigilant is removing the NAC/10s for NL/45s, A new (single) Dropcollar and an update to the lesser weapons. Essentially making it more a patrol craft meant to deal with Pirates, sound good?

Code: [Select]
Manatee (Upgrade)
Type: Military Spheriod
Mass: 1,900 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Introduced: 3060
Mass: 1,900
Battle Value: 2,705
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-D-D
Cost: 206,754,800 C-bills

Fuel: 135 tons (5,400)
Safe Thrust: 4
Maximum Thrust: 6
Heat Sinks: 95 (190)
Structural Integrity: 10

Armor
    Nose: 87
    Sides: 75/75
    Aft: 75

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Mech (1)                1 Door   
    Bay 2:  Mech (1)                1 Door   
    Bay 3:  Mech (1)                1 Door   
    Bay 4:  Mech (1)                1 Door   
    Bay 5:  Cargo (363.5 tons)      1 Door   

Ammunition:
    216 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (6 tons)

Escape Pods: 2
Life Boats: 0
Crew:  2 officers, 3 enlisted/non-rated, 6 gunners, 8 bay personnel

Notes: Mounts 17 tons of standard aerospace armor.

Weapons:                                      Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV     ERV   Class       
Nose (30 Heat)
3 ER Medium Laser                         27   2(23)   2(23)    1(8)    0(0)  Laser       
    1 ER Large Laser
3 Anti-Missile System                      3    1(9)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (36 shots)
RS/LS Fwd (25 Heat)
2 ER Medium Laser                         22   2(18)   2(18)    1(8)    0(0)  Laser       
    1 ER Large Laser
3 Anti-Missile System                      3    1(9)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (36 shots)
RS/LS Aft (25 Heat)
2 ER Medium Laser                         22   2(18)   2(18)    1(8)    0(0)  Laser       
    1 ER Large Laser
3 Anti-Missile System                      3    1(9)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (36 shots)
Aft (30 Heat)
3 ER Medium Laser                         27   2(23)   2(23)    1(8)    0(0)  Laser       
    1 ER Large Laser
3 Anti-Missile System                      3    1(9)    0(0)    0(0)    0(0)  AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (36 shots)


« Last Edit: 03 December 2023, 14:55:22 by Hazard Pay »

Daryk

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Re: Design challenge: So you found yourself some relics....
« Reply #10 on: 08 December 2023, 10:15:20 »
Your Vigilant proposal sounds good to me! :)

And I'm always happy to see AMS added to ships... ;)

Hazard Pay

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Re: Design challenge: So you found yourself some relics....
« Reply #11 on: 08 December 2023, 20:27:54 »
Here's the Vigilant. Probably excessive ammo and fuel in all honesty, but it's meant to patrol for those pesky pirates.

Dropcollar will usually be loaded with either a Cargo, Carrier, or Troop Dropper as the situation demands.

Edit: Okay, yeah that's way too much DHS. Could do with like 500 instead and still have plenty left over.

Code: [Select]
Vigilant Corvette (3060s)
Mass: 140,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 3065
Mass: 140,000
Battle Value: 12,192
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-E-F
Cost: 4,957,097,432 C-bills

Fuel: 1,229 tons (6,145)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Sail Integrity: 3
KF Drive Integrity: 5
Heat Sinks: 800 (1600)
Structural Integrity: 33

Armor
    Nose: 16
    Fore Sides: 16/16
    Aft Sides: 14/14
    Aft: 14

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Small Craft (4)         1 Door   
    Bay 2:  Cargo (20000.0 tons)    1 Door   
    Bay 3:  Fighter (6)             2 Doors   

Ammunition:
    960 rounds of Anti-Missile System [IS] ammunition (8 tons),
    360 rounds of LB 10-X Cluster ammunition (1 tons),
    260 rounds of White Shark ammunition (10,400 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 1
Grav Decks: 1 (30 m)
Escape Pods: 20
Life Boats: 20
Crew:  23 officers, 83 enlisted/non-rated, 24 gunners, 32 bay personnel, 64 marines, 24 BA marines

Notes: Equipped with
    1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Small)
    2 Space Mine Dispenser
90 tons of standard aerospace armor.

Weapons:                                       Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                                 Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (38 Heat)
1 Capital Missile Launcher (White Shark)   15   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)    3(30)   Capital Missile
    White Shark Ammo (80 shots)
2 PPC                                      20   2(20)   2(20)    0(0)     0(0)   PPC         
3 Anti-Missile System                       3    1(9)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (120 shots)
FRS/FLS (143 Heat)
2 Naval Laser 45                           140  9(90)   9(90)   9(90)    9(90)   Capital Laser
3 Anti-Missile System                       3    1(9)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (120 shots)
RBS/LBS (163 Heat)
2 Naval Laser 45                           140  9(90)   9(90)   9(90)    9(90)   Capital Laser
2 PPC                                      20   2(20)   2(20)    0(0)     0(0)   PPC         
3 Anti-Missile System                       3    1(9)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (120 shots)
ARS/ALS (38 Heat)
1 Capital Missile Launcher (White Shark)   15   3(30)   3(30)   3(30)    3(30)   Capital Missile
    White Shark Ammo (90 shots)
2 PPC                                      20   2(20)   2(20)    0(0)     0(0)   PPC         
3 Anti-Missile System                       3    1(9)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (120 shots)
Aft (149 Heat)
3 LB 10-X AC                                6   3(30)   3(30)    0(0)     0(0)   LBX AC     
    LB 10-X Cluster Ammo (360 shots)
2 Naval Laser 45                           140  9(90)   9(90)   9(90)    9(90)   Capital Laser
3 Anti-Missile System                       3    1(9)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   AMS         
    Anti-Missile System Ammo [IS] (120 shots)

« Last Edit: 08 December 2023, 21:01:01 by Hazard Pay »

Daryk

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Re: Design challenge: So you found yourself some relics....
« Reply #12 on: 08 December 2023, 22:59:46 »
I usually set up my spreadsheets to track the weapon heat to calculate the heat sinks.