BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
BattleTech Game Universe => The Periphery => Topic started by: Hominid Mk II on 18 September 2013, 16:00:28
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Any chance of an official list of which of the off-map worlds are still inhabited, ever?
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Any chance of an official list of which of the off-map worlds are still inhabited, ever?
Probably not. Generally, inhabited Periphery planets are not listed on maps until they become significant to the plot (or at least some publication).
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Here's one question-- there were supposedly a few worlds that were former capitals that still had substantial populations-- over the hundreds of millions. What would be a good "upper limit" for the more heavily populated Outworld's Waste worlds?
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Here's one question-- there were supposedly a few worlds that were former capitals that still had substantial populations-- over the hundreds of millions. What would be a good "upper limit" for the more heavily populated Outworld's Waste worlds?
From what I gathered, I wouldn't expect those worlds to have a population now beyond the tens of millions. Maybe a hundred mil tops, but that's it. And most of those would be living in hellish coniditions
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Here's one question-- there were supposedly a few worlds that were former capitals that still had substantial populations-- over the hundreds of millions. What would be a good "upper limit" for the more heavily populated Outworld's Waste worlds?
About 100 million. The well-off world of Wynn's Roost was supposed to have about 100 million. Did that end up in ATOW:Companion?
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If they have fallen off the map it means a combination of several things:
1) The world was depopulated, where the remaining population is but a shadow of its former self.
2) The world does not see significant trade and therefore not on the 'radar' of the greater part of humanity.
3) The world regresses to the point where they are barely considered a technic society (Space Amish, with no strategic value to maintain outside contact).
4) Becomes superfluous to the plot, and therefore are simply clutter on the maps.
Almost all the worlds not abandoned due to environtmental collapse (war, failed terraforming, natural disaster, lack of technology to support habitats, etc) are likely to be completely depopulated, but the rest almost certainly still have people on them. Without trade, they have probably backslid in their technology even further than before, which on alien worlds probably means that the population cannot go above a few million.
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About 100 million. The well-off world of Wynn's Roost was supposed to have about 100 million. Did that end up in ATOW:Companion?
I don't think so. Going through a search of the PDF with a keywords "Wynn's Roost", "Wynn", "Waste", and "Outworlds" did not find that factoid. Though I have to thank you for encouraging me with in another thread to pick up A Time for War and the ATOW: Companion, it helped in a session did with some friends last year.
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Drat. I produced 4 planets for ATOW:Companion's system generation rules, but 2 were dumped due to space issues. I guess Wynn's Roost was one of them. Wynn's Roost is mentioned in ISP3: Interstellar Expeditions, but only briefly and without stats.
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have you considered doing away with a world system by just using fiat along the lines of natural, spacial diaster? say, a sun goes nova or 'This is Ceti- Alpha V!!! Ceti Alpha 6... exploded 6 months after we go here...' ?
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Drat. I produced 4 planets for ATOW:Companion's system generation rules, but 2 were dumped due to space issues. I guess Wynn's Roost was one of them. Wynn's Roost is mentioned in ISP3: Interstellar Expeditions, but only briefly and without stats.
Are you allowed to post it one the forums if it's not in use?
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have you considered doing away with a world system by just using fiat along the lines of natural, spacial diaster? say, a sun goes nova or 'This is Ceti- Alpha V!!! Ceti Alpha 6... exploded 6 months after we go here...' ?
Look up Grand Diablo and the Beta Regulus Tragedy in the House Steiner Handbook.
Are you allowed to post it one the forums if it's not in use?
If I post it in public, it becomes non-viable for future formal publication.
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About 100 million. The well-off world of Wynn's Roost was supposed to have about 100 million. Did that end up in ATOW:Companion?
100 million isn't too bad-- it's more than enough to support an advanced industrial economy (and I think it's important to remember that when the ISP3 talkes bout exporting "primitive" electronics, it's stuff that would look pretty impressive to use in 2013, so long as we remember that some things just don't exist in Btech).
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100 million isn't too bad-- it's more than enough to support an advanced industrial economy (and I think it's important to remember that when the ISP3 talkes bout exporting "primitive" electronics, it's stuff that would look pretty impressive to use in 2013, so long as we remember that some things just don't exist in Btech).
It could support n advanced economy, but the conditions in the Outworlds Wastes would be against it. As soon as it looks like a world is developing anything, it tends to draw in pirates that take anything of any value.
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It could support n advanced economy, but the conditions in the Outworlds Wastes would be against it. As soon as it looks like a world is developing anything, it tends to draw in pirates that take anything of any value.
Actually ISP 3 mentions that due to being a backwater for so long and the fact that the Ravens have been cracking down on piracy (as well as their actions making the OA more attractive( the Wastes are enjoying something of a Renaissance, due to the reduction in piracy. How long it will last... who knows.
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What if the Ravens and Outworlders just recolonize/reintegrate such planets in the Alliance? Both sides stand to gain. the former will add resources and populations while the latter will gain enhanced defences and advanced tech. Besides such planets may provide semi secret areas far away from prying eyes for the Alliance to build up its forces/military infrastructure if it needed such a place.
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It's a case of 'why bother', really. Many of those worlds were marginal ones only made viable through SL-era Terraforming and the like, and technological backsliding and decay is a big part of what made them what they are today. Furthermore, those worlds that are still inhabited are home to pirates, warbands and other such nasties which will take time and effort to root out. Yes, the Ravens are cracking down on pirates, but it's a big difference between raiding to keep them down and the lengthy campaigns needed to eliminate the problem and clean up those worlds entirely.
Finally, those worlds chose to be independent from the Alliance, which is something that the Alliance government allows and won't try to stop. Given that worlds left the RA between 3085 and 3130, it seems that "live and let live" policy is still in effect
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What the OA Wastes are good for is to have an area that is hazy enough to possibly host anything on one of the worlds within its borders. Like hidden research or supply bases from the Star League era, or pirate worlds, or strange new societies localized to one or two planets.
I wonder if the Ravens will go a scavenging there one day. It is what they like to do, after all. Could be something there to attract their attention.
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I wonder if the Ravens will go a scavenging there one day. It is what they like to do, after all.
Not likely. Ravens scavenge battlefields, they are not into scavenging old ruins like the Scorpions were.
Could be something there to attract their attention.
It would have to be something of actual military value, such as a pirate (or WoB) base, military production facility or shipyard or a supply cache. Even so only the pirate (or WoB) bases are likely to generate an immediate response, for the rest, they would likely want to research it a little more rather than just acting on a rumor.
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Not likely. Ravens scavenge battlefields, they are not into scavenging old ruins like the Scorpions were.
It would have to be something of actual military value, such as a pirate (or WoB) base, military production facility or shipyard or a supply cache. Even so only the pirate (or WoB) bases are likely to generate an immediate response, for the rest, they would likely want to research it a little more rather than just acting on a rumor.
Is Quatre Belle a battlefield (yet)? ^-^
And how can we be sure of the likelyhood of something that may or may not exist within the OA wastes, something that might have been overlooked and/or not mentioned by IE? Something even mentioned on those pages about the full extent of the Wastes not being fully explored, something that might be of use or even the invention of a crafty GM who would take that as their cue to be inventive. Anything, really, that's why I was so unspecific regarding what "it" might be in the first place.
And separately, canonically, and in all seriousness, perhaps IE wants people to say "oh, nothing there, of course." Misdirection can be a valuable tool in story telling.
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ISP mentions that some of the worlds, have populations in the millions-- possibly up to a hunded million and they have early 21st century manfuacturing. Tha'ts not all of them, possibly under a dozen, but still, that provides a very interesting power base to anyone interested in a long-term uplift project or just a cushy contract-- 21st century is enough to provide a comfortable pay rate and not having to live in an unheated castle, but low tech enough that a company of modern mechs is a very big deal to the planetary defense.
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I find it strange that the old OA planets would be past over and a few recent "quitters" would hold interest.
I'd think recourse's would be more important than people.At least from the Clan point of view. ;D
We of clan Snow Raven "Do Not" waste anything,,,Battlefield or not.Theres way to much potential in the 100 or so fogoten worlds than not(good plot lines) >:D
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I find it strange that the old OA planets would be past over and a few recent "quitters" would hold interest.
I'd think recourse's would be more important than people.At least from the Clan point of view. ;D
We of clan Snow Raven "Do Not" waste anything,,,Battlefield or not.Theres way to much potential in the 100 or so fogoten worlds than not(good plot lines) >:D
Actually there is no way of knowing what the Ravens are doing in the area. We have a gap in our knowledge and maybe, just maybe, the Ravens or Outworlder brethren are taking renewed interest in the area. Funnily enough, IE doesn't really seem to have any particular interest in the area...
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Funnily enough, IE doesn't really seem to have any particular interest in the area...
Or, funnily enough, they DO have an interest in the area, and aren't allowed to talk about it.
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Maybe more detail could be found in the Senior Executive/Financier edition of ISP3. The one we did not get to see. ;D
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I have a question, sorry to resurrect it. But its related to this.
Is the information found in ISP3, least stuff about the factions and worlds in there solid canon information or is it too loose to be considered to be reliable. If someone wanted know something what happening with Wym's Roost, what little information in this book actual truth or too much rumor to bother with?
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The first two ISP books both include a paragraph very similar to this one in Interstellar Expeditions in their introductions:
As with the previous Interstellar Players sourcebooks, not all is as it may seem in Interstellar Expeditions: Interstellar Players 3. Indeed, even though the gamemaster’s guides and the rules provide “behind-the-scenes” details and a guide for using these various mysteries as a focus for one’s BattleTech games, whether or not a given mystery actually pursues the agendas in this book—or, indeed, if it even exists—is ultimately up to the gamemasters and players of such campaigns. In that respect (and unless otherwise stated in the gamemaster information), the material in this book may all be considered optional elements.
Some aspects of those books have proven to be completely accurate, others shade the truth in different ways, and still others are completely bogus. I wouldn't treat anything in Interstellar Expeditions as canon information for any official purpose. But that's what makes it fun!
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The first two ISP books both include a paragraph very similar to this one in Interstellar Expeditions in their introductions:
Some aspects of those books have proven to be completely accurate, others shade the truth in different ways, and still others are completely bogus. I wouldn't treat anything in Interstellar Expeditions as canon information for any official purpose. But that's what makes it fun!
I understood that, it is fun as plot book for role-playing. Unfortunately, if someone needs solid information, about periphery, ISP3 isn't it. Why i always termed these books as "the books of lies" because you can't use them unless if just for optional adventure. Especially you want to have hard-facts on a factions or what is known. We won't have anything really outside what was published beyond FM:3085 and older sources. Whatever was mentioned in FM:3145 and Era Report 3145, is are only tidbits of information of near Periphery worlds in small references. Nothing huge, like ISP.
This is my own option, so forgive me if my perception on this subject is vague. Before ISP series, we could always rely on the books to deliver us unshakable information. yes there some stuff in them is grany, but Jihad Hot Spots, least it was new reports are considered canon in public knowledge, ISP delivers quasi-canon or semi-canon.
Only reliable information someone going to get on the Wastes, is properly from Star League era books, such as Field Reports, Historical: Liberation of Terra books, Field Manual: SLDF. Which have some information on previous territorial states including the Outworlds Alliance's expanded holdings.
Unless, ISP3 has some sections that note this is facts, this is where you can branch out to make your stories on.
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Is the information found in ISP3, least stuff about the factions and worlds in there solid canon information or is it too loose to be considered to be reliable. If someone wanted know something what happening with Wym's Roost, what little information in this book actual truth or too much rumor to bother with?
The information seemed pretty solid to me, there's mysteries in there but this generally due to things that are unknown to Interstellar Expeditions about the places rather than outlandish rumours like much of the previous books. I never bothered with the two previous books because they were mostly too silly but I found this one an interesting book on the deeper periphery.
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The problem with "solid information" about the periphery is that one of the reasons there IS a perisphery is to let players and GMs have a location where they can be safely certain that their own plot's won't be steamrollered by the new opening of the return of hte master and his cybernetically engineered Corgie warriors.
So by design a lot of stuff is left very open-- but equally they really have to avoid putting something out there that is going to have an unavoidable impact on the IS. Steve Cole in start fleet battles mentioned this-- that lots of people kept coming to him with ideas for "off map" empires, but he'd always return with the fact that if someone exists even off map, close enough to interact with the major powers, the major powers are going to have to take them into account.
That's why for example, jump shp construction is so very, very rare inthe periphery-- they should have some of it, after all jumpships were being built during the age of war, but to do so would be to warp the entire setting.
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The problem with "solid information" about the periphery is that one of the reasons there IS a perisphery is to let players and GMs have a location where they can be safely certain that their own plot's won't be steamrollered by the new opening of the return of hte master and his cybernetically engineered Corgie warriors.
...except that TPTB steamrollered all my old Outworlds Alliance plots anyway by the new opening of the return of the Son of Kerznutsy and his cybernetically engineered Screwborn warriors.
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Well ISP3 is a bit like the travels of Marco Polo. We know that strange, far away places exist, but cannot actually identify reality from hyperbole. Having said that, the periphery is nice for that reason because people can come up with all sorts of scenarios.
I think that Wastes are a great addition to players, especially those who like the Raven/Outworlds factions. Its easy to come up with scenarios like -
a) disgruntled Outworlders with Raven encroachment flee to one of the planets to create a powerbase to (hopefully) retake their Alliance back
b) generic pirate hunting, merc scenarios or prospecting
c) creation of mini states in the area
and so on.
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Hey everyone. Just posting here in case anything gets updated. Wynn's Roost is stuck in my head now. I have this image of TH refugees bringing just enough tech to keep the world going and maybe mothballing some TH militia military gear there.
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I keep thinking it as place famous for best roasted chickens for some reason.
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I think you mean Wynn's Roast. Home of a chicken-like avian life form with four wings and four legs.
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I think you mean Wynn's Roast. Home of a chicken-like avian life form with four wings and four legs.
I'd be amused if the planet actually had chicken-like franchise like that.
Since the place technically still around, i'm sure that since it's hold over from the Star League era, that franchise would be called Popeyes.
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Hey everyone. Just posting here in case anything gets updated. Wynn's Roost is stuck in my head now. I have this image of TH refugees bringing just enough tech to keep the world going and maybe mothballing some TH militia military gear there.
The whole of the Wastes was a few small changes away from being a decent Periphery power. Instead, it tore itself apart.
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The whole of the Wastes was a few small changes away from being a decent Periphery power. Instead, it tore itself apart.
Which make ripe for the right group of enterprising merc to remedy the situation !
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Only historically. The Outworlds Wastes fall apart during the Second Succession War. Its where raiding, pirates, failed mercs, empire building and everything else work together to tear everything the Star League built down and push them into a never-ending spiral of self-destruction. By 3000 the Wastes had hit rock bottom simply because there was nothing left to destroy.
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By 3000 the Wastes had hit rock bottom simply because there was nothing left to destroy.
However, there was plenty to rebuild at that point. The Wastes in 3000 is a good place for an empire building campaign.
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However, there was plenty to rebuild at that point. The Wastes in 3000 is a good place for an empire building campaign.
Funnily enough, I tried one of those. It fizzled largely due to my own RL commitments, but I had the premise if nothing else
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However, there was plenty to rebuild at that point. The Wastes in 3000 is a good place for an empire building campaign.
I have an AU in the fanfic section where the OW is the center of an evacuation from Inglesmond and other planets realizing "time to get out!" It's a really nice locatoin for all sorts of AUs.