RFP: from the Ngoverse (Mark 1 Kowloonese "Sampan" design)

[Cannonshop]

Looking for the following:

Primitive core Jumpship, under 100K tons, preferably JUST under 100K tons, that could feasibly be used in a military role by a small power who didn't have access to large compact core infrastructure, but can build decent transit drives.  Keep in mind, these guys are fated to lose to the Rim Worlds Republic's navy, but only after putting up one HELL of a fight.

"Military" roles that would be appropriate:

1. fighter/smallcraft carrier/tender
2. MIRV ship (missiles, missiles,and moar missiles).

Forget transport, this thing is a short-legged, short-range jump-capable ship intended to defend one binary system that's surrounded by enemies...and they KNOW IT.

The events are pre star-league and just after the RWR got themselves some 'mech tech in the raid.

The war to take Kowloon (in the Ngoverse fan fiction stories) took the Rim Worlds Republic ten years, and they put the boot down on those necks for a long time. IOW it wasn't an easy conquest and the natives held a bleeping grudge for centuries after.

part of it, would by definition be a naval action that lasted quite a while, thus the use of a jump-capable ship. (You really can't wage a guerilla action in space without it.)

[kindalas]

Used HMA to do the math so take that for what it is worth.

This is the raider model, it has a NAC in the nose for going after Jumpships and merchant traffic.

The missile model would swap out the NAC for bunches of missiles.

There is 3000 tons of cargo, that can be easily swapped out for a second batch of fighters if you want short legs.

It has a 1000 tons of fuel.

Code: [Select]

                     AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                                  VALIDATED

Class/Model/Name:  Sampan
Tech:              Kowloon
Vessel Type:       WarShip

Mass:              95,000 tons
K-F Drive System:  (Unknown)
Length:            278 meters
Sail Diameter:     840 meters
Power Plant:       Standard
Safe Thrust:       3
Maximum Thrust:    5
Armor Type:        Standard
Armament:         
   48 LRM 20
   32 Large Laser
   48 Machine Gun
    1 NAC/25
    2 NL45
    6 Barracuda
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Sampan
Mass:              95,000 tons

Equipment:                                                            Mass 
Power Plant, Drive & Control:                                       17,100.00
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 3
      Maximum Thrust: 5
Kearny-Fuchida Hyperdrive:  *Basic K-F Drive* (Integrity = 4)      47,500.00
Jump Sail: (Integrity = 3)                                              35.00
Structural Integrity: 140                                           13,300.00
Total Heat Sinks:    829 Single                                        600.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps:                                                   1,020.00
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters:                238.00
Fire Control Computers:                                                   .00
Armor Type:  Standard  (297 total armor pts)                           266.00
                           Capital Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Fore:                                 51
   Fore-Left/Right:                   51/51
   Aft-Left/Right:                    51/51
   Aft:                                  42

Cargo:
   Bay 1:  Fighters (18) with 6 doors                                2,700.00
           Small Craft (2) with 1 door                                 400.00
           Infantry (foot) Platoons (4)                                 20.00
   Bay 2:  Cargo (1) with 4 doors                                    3,000.00

Life Boats:  30 (7 tons each)                                          210.00

Crew and Passengers:
     16 Officers (16 minimum)                                          160.00
     48 Crew (48 minimum)                                              336.00
     31 Gunners (31 minimum)                                           217.00
    158 Bay Personnel                                                     .00
Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6 LRM 20(60 rounds)        Nose     7(72)  7(72)  7(72)     --   36     70.00
4 Large Laser              Nose     3(32)  3(32)     --     --   32     20.00
6 Machine Gun(200 rounds)  Nose     1(12)     --     --     --    0      4.00
1 NAC/25(10 rounds)        Nose        25     25     25     --   85  3,006.00
1 NL45                     FL/R         5      5      5      5  140  1,800.00
6 LRM 20(60 rounds)        FL/R     7(72)  7(72)  7(72)     --   72    140.00
4 Large Laser              FL/R     3(32)  3(32)     --     --   64     40.00
6 Machine Gun(200 rounds)  FL/R     1(12)     --     --     --    0      8.00
3 Barracuda(30 msls)       L/RBS        6      6      6      6   60  2,340.00
6 LRM 20(60 rounds)        L/RBS    7(72)  7(72)  7(72)     --   72    140.00
4 Large Laser              L/RBS    3(32)  3(32)     --     --   64     40.00
6 Machine Gun(200 rounds)  L/RBS    1(12)     --     --     --    0      8.00
6 LRM 20(60 rounds)        AL/R     7(72)  7(72)  7(72)     --   72    140.00
4 Large Laser              AL/R     3(32)  3(32)     --     --   64     40.00
6 Machine Gun(200 rounds)  AL/R     1(12)     --     --     --    0      8.00
6 LRM 20(60 rounds)        Aft      7(72)  7(72)  7(72)     --   36     70.00
4 Large Laser              Aft      3(32)  3(32)     --     --   32     20.00
6 Machine Gun(200 rounds)  Aft      1(12)     --     --     --    0      4.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                              Heat: 829      95,000.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        969,754,000 C-Bills



[Liam's Ghost]

I feel like I'm a little late to the party, but here you go. Two configuations designed around a common 80,000 ton hull.

Since standoff attack seems to be the order of the day, both have large naval comm scanners to improve their detection range. The carrier has space for 22 small craft and an expanded fuel and cargo capacity, the missile ship has twelve tubes worth of barracuda missiles, with a total of 240 missiles in the magazine. It might not seem like much as a single volley, but it adds up quickly over time.

Both ships have a modest secondary battery of light autocannons, a tough hull, and fairly impressive armor given their size. They're also very spartan. Everybody gets steerage quarters.

Sampan I Carrier
Mass: 80,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced) 
Introduced: 2470
Mass: 80,000
Battle Value: 7,250
Tech Rating/Availability: D/D-X-X-X
Cost: 4,263,346,000 C-bills

Fuel: 3,000 tons (30,000)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Sail Integrity: 3
KF Drive Integrity: 6
Jump Range: 15
Heat Sinks: 165
Structural Integrity: 100

Armor
    Nose: 32
    Fore Sides: 31/31
    Aft Sides: 21/21
    Aft: 31

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Small Craft (22)        1 Door    
    Bay 2:  Cargo (8251.0 tons)     6 Doors   

Ammunition:
    960 rounds of AC/5 ammunition (4 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 0
Grav Decks: 0
Escape Pods: 40
Life Boats: 0
Crew:  13 officers, 58 enlisted/non-rated, 4 gunners, 110 bay personnel, 20 marines      

Notes: Equipped with 
    1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)
   160 tons of standard aerospace armor.

Weapons:                    Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)              Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
FRS/FLS (6 Heat)
6 AC/5                   6   3(30)   3(30)    0(0)     0(0)   AC          
    AC/5 Ammo (4800 shots)
RBS/LBS (6 Heat)
6 AC/5                   6   3(30)   3(30)    0(0)     0(0)   AC          
    AC/5 Ammo (4800 shots)
   



Sampan I MIRV Ship
Mass: 80,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced) 
Introduced: 2470
Mass: 80,000
Battle Value: 14,450
Tech Rating/Availability: E/D-X-X-X
Cost: 4,262,480,000 C-bills

Fuel: 2,000 tons (20,000)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Sail Integrity: 3
KF Drive Integrity: 4
Jump Range: 15
Heat Sinks: 165
Structural Integrity: 100

Armor
    Nose: 32
    Fore Sides: 31/31
    Aft Sides: 21/21
    Aft: 31

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Small Craft (2)         1 Door    
    Bay 2:  Cargo (4931.5 tons)     1 Door    

Ammunition:
    960 rounds of AC/5 ammunition (4 tons), 
    240 rounds of Barracuda ammunition (60 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 0
Grav Decks: 0
Escape Pods: 40
Life Boats: 0
Crew:  13 officers, 58 enlisted/non-rated, 16 gunners, 10 bay personnel, 20 marines      

Notes: Equipped with 
    1 Naval Comm-Scanner Suite (Large)
   159.5 tons of standard aerospace armor.

Weapons:                                    Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                              Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
FRS/FLS (6 Heat)
6 AC/5                                   6   3(30)   3(30)    0(0)     0(0)   AC          
    AC/5 Ammo (4800 shots)
RBS/LBS (6 Heat)
6 AC/5                                   6   3(30)   3(30)    0(0)     0(0)   AC          
    AC/5 Ammo (4800 shots)
ARS/ALS (60 Heat)
6 Capital Missile Launcher (Barracuda)  60   12(120) 12(120) 12(120) 12(120)  Capital Missile
    Barracuda Ammo (120 shots)

[Maingunnery]

A lot of fighters and some basic missile broadsides:


Sampan  Jumpship
Mass: 99,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 2470
Mass: 99,000
Battle Value: 21,589
Tech Rating/Availability: E/D-X-X-X
Cost: 3,836,147,000 C-bills

Fuel: 2,000 tons (20,000)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Sail Integrity: 3
KF Drive Integrity: 6
Jump Range: 15
Heat Sinks: 0
Structural Integrity: 20

Armor
    Nose: 74
    Fore Sides: 110/110
    Aft Sides: 110/110
    Aft: 74

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Small Craft (6)         2 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Fighter (36)            6 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Cargo (10613.0 tons)    1 Door   

Ammunition:
    6,000 rounds of Machine Gun ammunition (6 tons),
    240 rounds of Barracuda ammunition (60 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 0
Grav Decks: 0
Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 15
Crew:  20 officers, 45 enlisted/non-rated, 17 gunners, 102 bay personnel      

Notes: Mounts 1,100 tons of primitive aerospace armor.

Weapons:                                    Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                              Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (0 Heat)
5 Machine Gun                            0   1(10)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   Point Defense
    Machine Gun Ammo (200000 shots)
FRS/FLS (0 Heat)
5 Machine Gun                            0   1(10)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   Point Defense
    Machine Gun Ammo (200000 shots)
RBS/LBS (60 Heat)
6 Capital Missile Launcher (Barracuda)  60   12(120) 12(120) 12(120) 12(120)  Capital Missile
    Barracuda Ammo (120 shots)
ARS/ALS (0 Heat)
5 Machine Gun                            0   1(10)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   Point Defense
    Machine Gun Ammo (200000 shots)
Aft (0 Heat)
5 Machine Gun                            0   1(10)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   Point Defense
    Machine Gun Ammo (200000 shots)
   

[Daryk]

Hmm... that's two designs now without energy weapons.  I'm thinking the Kowloonese would have at least SOME of them so they can keep shooting until they're utterly destroyed.

[Liam's Ghost]

Notes: Mounts 1,100 tons of primitive aerospace armor.

That vastly exceeds the armor limit for a ship of that size and structural integrity.

[Maingunnery]

Hmm... that's two designs now without energy weapons.  I'm thinking the Kowloonese would have at least SOME of them so they can keep shooting until they're utterly destroyed.

This perhaps?


Sampan II Jumpship
Mass: 99,000 tons
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Introduced: 2470
Mass: 99,000
Battle Value: 22,008
Tech Rating/Availability: E/D-X-X-X
Cost: 3,838,130,000 C-bills

Fuel: 2,000 tons (20,000)
Safe Thrust: 3
Maximum Thrust: 5
Sail Integrity: 3
KF Drive Integrity: 6
Jump Range: 15
Heat Sinks: 0
Structural Integrity: 20

Armor
    Nose: 74
    Fore Sides: 110/110
    Aft Sides: 110/110
    Aft: 74

Cargo
    Bay 1:  Small Craft (6)         2 Doors   
    Bay 2:  Fighter (36)            6 Doors   
    Bay 3:  Cargo (10589.0 tons)    1 Door   

Ammunition:
    240 rounds of Barracuda ammunition (60 tons)

Dropship Capacity: 0
Grav Decks: 0
Escape Pods: 0
Life Boats: 15
Crew:  20 officers, 45 enlisted/non-rated, 19 gunners, 102 bay personnel      

Notes: Mounts 1,100 tons of primitive aerospace armor.

Weapons:                                    Capital Attack Values (Standard)
Arc (Heat)                              Heat  SRV     MRV     LRV      ERV    Class       
Nose (5 Heat)
5 Small Laser                            5   2(15)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   Point Defense
FRS/FLS (21 Heat)
5 Small Laser                            5   2(15)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   Point Defense
2 Large Laser                           16   2(16)   2(16)    0(0)     0(0)   Laser       
RBS/LBS (60 Heat)
6 Capital Missile Launcher (Barracuda)  60   12(120) 12(120) 12(120) 12(120)  Capital Missile
    Barracuda Ammo (120 shots)
ARS/ALS (21 Heat)
5 Small Laser                            5   2(15)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   Point Defense
2 Large Laser                           16   2(16)   2(16)    0(0)     0(0)   Laser       
Aft (5 Heat)
5 Small Laser                            5   2(15)    0(0)    0(0)     0(0)   Point Defense
   

[Daryk]

Better, but I think Kindalas had the right idea with a pair of NL/45s...

[Maingunnery]

That vastly exceeds the armor limit for a ship of that size and structural integrity.

Strange, MML allowed this, could be a bug.

[kindalas]

Better, but I think Kindalas had the right idea with a pair of NL/45s...

Thanks, my first draft had a NL45 NL 55 combo but I scaled it back to give some more cargo space.

The NAC is hard to justify but I went with it to make swarm attacks on the larger RWR ships a valid strategy to force the Rimmers to clump their fleets together which would hopefully expose their other space elements to raids.

My main intent was to make the ship annoying and hard to kill.

The SI of 140 might be a bit much considering how many shots it would take once the armor is penetrated to actually destroy one. But again the design is supposed to be annoying.

[glitterboy2098]

not sure if you are still taking submissions but here you go. this is my first naval craft so might have some major flaws.

Code: [Select]

Sampan Jumpship Base Tech Level: Advanced (IS)
Level Era
Experimental -
Advanced 2470+
Standard -
Extinct 2500+
Tech Rating: E/D-X-X-X

Weight: 75000 tons
BV: 6,924
Cost: 3,723,955,000 C-bills

Movement: 2/3
Heat Sinks: 175
Fuel Points: 0/20000 (2000.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 9.77
Structural Integrity: 60
Sail Integrity: 3
KF Drive Integrity: 4
Armor: 76 (Capital Scale) (Primitive)

Armor
Nose 16
Left Front Side 14
Right Front Side 14
Aft 8
Aft Left Side 12
Aft Right Side 12

Weapons Loc Heat
Capital Missile Bay NOS 30 (2 Whiteshark)
Capital Missile Bay AFT 15 (1 Whiteshark)
Laser Bay FRS 32 (4 Large Laser)
Laser Bay FLS 32 (4 Large Laser)
Laser Bay ALS 32 (4 Large Laser)
Laser Bay ARS 32 (4 Large Laser)
LRM Bay FLS 16 (4 LRM 10)
LRM Bay FRS 16 (4 LRM 10)
LRM Bay ALS 16 (4 LRM 10)
LRM Bay ARS 16 (4 LRM 10)
Capital Laser Bay NOS 104 (2 NL-35)

Ammo Loc Shots
White Shark Ammo AFT 12
White Shark Ammo NOS 24
LRM 10 Ammo FLS 96
LRM 10 Ammo FRS 96
LRM 10 Ammo ALS 96
LRM 10 Ammo ARS 96

Carrying Capacity
Dropshuttle Bay (1 door) 2.0 units
Small Craft (3 door) - 12 units (2 recovery open)
Infantry Bay (2 doors) - 6.0 Foot platoons
Cargo Space (1 door) - 3,000 tons   

Crew
Officers 24
Enlisted/Non-rated 36
Gunners 25
Bay Personnel 228

Crew Quarters:
Standard - 2
Second Class - 24
Steerage - 300

Lifeboats - 8
Escape pods - 6


75K mass. only a 2/3 thrust profile. not very speedy but as a system defense ship you don't need super powerful drives, and weaker drives would be easier to maintain. crew spaces are on the cramped side, with steerage for the regular crew, 2nd class for the officers, and only a handful of standard quarters meant to be the captains quarters with a spare for an admiral if serving as a flagship for some reason. (i also stuck in some spare 2nd class and steerage quarters to accommodate a few passengers or a visiting officer's staff.) big drawback of being assigned to one of these is the lack of a grav-deck. better follow that exercise regimen the medical staff assigns you. since i expect the ship would be traveling under at least partial thrust a fair amount of time handling police patrols in kowloon's belter communities. that is, if the crews themselves aren't mostly belters and thus less effected by the lack of grav-deck. the ship carries a half dozen infantry platoons as marines. a bit heavy for a warship, but given it would mostly be operating as a police and customs ship, they'd need a fair amount of boarding parties.

firepower wise it tries to do a bit of everything.. three whiteshark launchers, two bow and one aft, with a dozen shots each. Whitesharks were chosen despite their bulk, because they allow the use of nuclear payloads. a pair of NL35's in the nose round out the capital scale weaponry. most of the firepower is standard scale, with quad Large lasers and Quad LRM10's arrayed in the 'mid-arcs'.

the dozen small craft bays and the dropshuttle bay though would be the biggest contributor to its combat capability, both in defense and in police duties. i went with small craft bays because i figured that the class would be designed prior to the advent of ASF's, and since you can stick ASF's into small craft bays, they'd work for both. but i suspect they'd have been running something similar to the Intrepid class small craft. we don't have any real examples of dropshuttles yet but i suspect there would be some heavily armed ones serving in similar roles as the "assault dropships" of later eras.

[Cannonshop]

not sure if you are still taking submissions but here you go. this is my first naval craft so might have some major flaws.

Code: [Select]

Sampan Jumpship Base Tech Level: Advanced (IS)
Level Era
Experimental -
Advanced 2470+
Standard -
Extinct 2500+
Tech Rating: E/D-X-X-X

Weight: 75000 tons
BV: 6,924
Cost: 3,723,955,000 C-bills

Movement: 2/3
Heat Sinks: 175
Fuel Points: 0/20000 (2000.0 tons)
Tons Per Burn Day: 9.77
Structural Integrity: 60
Sail Integrity: 3
KF Drive Integrity: 4
Armor: 76 (Capital Scale) (Primitive)

Armor
Nose 16
Left Front Side 14
Right Front Side 14
Aft 8
Aft Left Side 12
Aft Right Side 12

Weapons Loc Heat
Capital Missile Bay NOS 30 (2 Whiteshark)
Capital Missile Bay AFT 15 (1 Whiteshark)
Laser Bay FRS 32 (4 Large Laser)
Laser Bay FLS 32 (4 Large Laser)
Laser Bay ALS 32 (4 Large Laser)
Laser Bay ARS 32 (4 Large Laser)
LRM Bay FLS 16 (4 LRM 10)
LRM Bay FRS 16 (4 LRM 10)
LRM Bay ALS 16 (4 LRM 10)
LRM Bay ARS 16 (4 LRM 10)
Capital Laser Bay NOS 104 (2 NL-35)

Ammo Loc Shots
White Shark Ammo AFT 12
White Shark Ammo NOS 24
LRM 10 Ammo FLS 96
LRM 10 Ammo FRS 96
LRM 10 Ammo ALS 96
LRM 10 Ammo ARS 96

Carrying Capacity
Dropshuttle Bay (1 door) 2.0 units
Small Craft (3 door) - 12 units (2 recovery open)
Infantry Bay (2 doors) - 6.0 Foot platoons
Cargo Space (1 door) - 3,000 tons   

Crew
Officers 24
Enlisted/Non-rated 36
Gunners 25
Bay Personnel 228

Crew Quarters:
Standard - 2
Second Class - 24
Steerage - 300

Lifeboats - 8
Escape pods - 6


75K mass. only a 2/3 thrust profile. not very speedy but as a system defense ship you don't need super powerful drives, and weaker drives would be easier to maintain. crew spaces are on the cramped side, with steerage for the regular crew, 2nd class for the officers, and only a handful of standard quarters meant to be the captains quarters with a spare for an admiral if serving as a flagship for some reason. (i also stuck in some spare 2nd class and steerage quarters to accommodate a few passengers or a visiting officer's staff.) big drawback of being assigned to one of these is the lack of a grav-deck. better follow that exercise regimen the medical staff assigns you. since i expect the ship would be traveling under at least partial thrust a fair amount of time handling police patrols in kowloon's belter communities. that is, if the crews themselves aren't mostly belters and thus less effected by the lack of grav-deck. the ship carries a half dozen infantry platoons as marines. a bit heavy for a warship, but given it would mostly be operating as a police and customs ship, they'd need a fair amount of boarding parties.

firepower wise it tries to do a bit of everything.. three whiteshark launchers, two bow and one aft, with a dozen shots each. Whitesharks were chosen despite their bulk, because they allow the use of nuclear payloads. a pair of NL35's in the nose round out the capital scale weaponry. most of the firepower is standard scale, with quad Large lasers and Quad LRM10's arrayed in the 'mid-arcs'.

the dozen small craft bays and the dropshuttle bay though would be the biggest contributor to its combat capability, both in defense and in police duties. i went with small craft bays because i figured that the class would be designed prior to the advent of ASF's, and since you can stick ASF's into small craft bays, they'd work for both. but i suspect they'd have been running something similar to the Intrepid class small craft. we don't have any real examples of dropshuttles yet but i suspect there would be some heavily armed ones serving in similar roles as the "assault dropships" of later eras.

I'm still taking them, because I'm interested in how people would interpret the concept (1) and (2) I haven't made a hardcore choice yet.

[glitterboy2098]

in retrospect perhaps i should have used AC's instead of LRM's, since AC's would be using ammo more easily manufactured on kowloon.

[Daryk]

I'm pretty sure they can make LRM ammo if they can make capital missiles...

[glitterboy2098]

honestly i wasn't sure if they'd be making cap missiles or buying them on the black market.

[glitterboy2098]

i considered doing a version using the Aquilla jumpship as a base (the idea being they refit the ships they'd used to get to the planet) but man, that 1/2 thrust profile. 2/3 isn't fast but 1/2 might as well be stationary.

[Liam's Ghost]

i considered doing a version using the Aquilla jumpship as a base (the idea being they refit the ships they'd used to get to the planet) but man, that 1/2 thrust profile. 2/3 isn't fast but 1/2 might as well be stationary.

Since this is post warship era, there's every reason to suspect the Aquilla could have been upgraded with an improved transit drive. A modern 2/3 drive would take up just as much space as the cranky old aquilla's original drive.

[mikecj]

Do we have a finalized design choice?