Gimme More Stuff Debrief:The (very limited selection of the) People Have Spoken!

[beachhead1985]

Yes for Historical: 3SW!  :thumbsup:

YES! And an Era Report: 3025!

[Elmoth]

Aaaaaand all this is why I consider the clans to never have returned to the inner sphere and be in their own little part of the universe doing their kerensky stuff and having little kerenskys not bothering with the old fractious (oh the irony) inner spheroids anymore. Otherwise I get overwhelmed by the tsunami and prefer to play with less headaches.

Yes for Historical 3SW as well. And small scale wars!!! I work escenarios for a planet or serie sof star systems where a unit can play. I do not care about hundreds of thousands of worlds. For that, the general narrative is great and I enjoy it, *useful* stuff for PLAYING are campaigns set in a single planet. I might not use them, but I get much more inspiration from that kind of narratives.

[beachhead1985]

of course if I am really making wishes then I want a role-playing guide for the nuts and bolts of running a small merc unit.

[Colt Ward]

of course if I am really making wishes then I want a role-playing guide for the nuts and bolts of running a small merc unit.

We have the rules on setting it up and doing detailed contracts if you do not want to use the Warchest system . . . do you really want a rule saying every Tuesday your mess must serve tacos for a morale bonus?  You can run it as much like a military unit as you want (sources out there for that) or run it as a collection of friends (Ace Darwin?) getting together to go make some money playing soldier so you can get back to the hiring hall for a good blowout & stake.  Its all up to you, mercs are popular b/c its not spelled out on how to do it 'right' and thus is the big sandbox.

[Hellraiser]

This is an interesting argument because it is pretty much the opposite of how I feel about the situation.
From my point of view, the sheer amount of game rules and different designs and loadouts has jumped the shark long ago. 3025 tech was demonstrably a good, fun game to play as it drew enough players to start the entire thing. At a certain point (for me, TRO:3055 at the latest) heaping on more gimmicks and ever more new designs overloaded the setting and started becoming an unfun burden. I still like to read the stories, but I don't care for designs and tech of Civil War era and later. I have my gaming desires fulfilled by 3025 tech.

I'm not particularly keen on seeing the Chemical ERLargeClanVariableBombastPulseLaser, XRMs, 'Mech Jousting rules or the 101st variant of the BattleMaster.

Disclaimer: I do like some extras over the 3025 era tech - the blazer, or special munitions for ACs and missile launchers do have their place. But overall, less would have been more.

I'm kind of with Frabby on this.
TRO's are supposed to be some of the best sellers from what I understand & I used to love seeing them, but, as I page through 3145, I find myself staring at the artwork of the mechs &, maybe its the art, or maybe its the barrage of new tech items & quirks, but I find almost nothing from the Mechs/Vehicles sections to like.
There are some Battle Armor & Aero units that caught my eye for sure but those are less filled out areas.
To me at least, IMHO, it comes across as a money grab to push more mini sales.

[ActionButler]

I'm kind of with Frabby on this.
TRO's are supposed to be some of the best sellers from what I understand & I used to love seeing them, but, as I page through 3145, I find myself staring at the artwork of the mechs &, maybe its the art, or maybe its the barrage of new tech items & quirks, but I find almost nothing from the Mechs/Vehicles sections to like.
There are some Battle Armor & Aero units that caught my eye for sure but those are less filled out areas.
To me at least, IMHO, it comes across as a money grab to push more mini sales.

Add me to the queue.

While I acknowledge that, as one of the very few RPGs/wargames to have an advancing timeline, Battletech has had to add new stuff over the years, at some point in time, it just became silly.  Either by virtue of adding new stuff and not getting rid of old stuff, or by injecting new units into the game that have no obvious advantage over anything, this game has too much stuff.  I've all but successfully talked myself into tossing any of my post-3058 materials into the giveaway box and just sticking to the rules as-written in the Compendium. 

Part of it is just trying to sift through all of the new stuff (How many different chassis do we REALLY need if everyone has access to everything "because salvage" AND any mech can be customized for any mechwarrior no matter the age, rank, or affiliation?), part of it is the extra accounting that comes with the new stuff being layered onto a game that already has too much accounting (LRMS?  Good basic weapon with solid rules.  NARC Missile Beacon?  Neat!  NARC Nemesis Pods?  Ehhhhh... Haywire iNARC Beacons?  Check, please.)  At some point in time, the "Hooray! New Stuff!" feeling transformed into a "Why is this even a thing?" feeling. 

Don't get me wrong, there are some new things that I absolutely love, but most of those things are there to fill in the gaps.  Mech mortars should have been a thing AGES ago.  Same with rifle cannons and Thunderbolt missiles.  I think those were brilliant additions that round out the older weapon lists.  The Improved Heavy Gauss?  The Small Re-engineered Laser?  The Extended LRM?  No.  Because where does that stop?  If we've already made the journey from Laser to Heavy Laser to Improved Heavy Laser, how long is it going to take us to make the jump to Improved Heavy Variable Speed Pulse Laser? 

So, yeah, add me to the 'pick an era and stick to it by writing a bunch of Historicals' club. 

[Elmoth]

We have the rules on setting it up and doing detailed contracts if you do not want to use the Warchest system . . . do you really want a rule saying every Tuesday your mess must serve tacos for a morale bonus?  You can run it as much like a military unit as you want (sources out there for that) or run it as a collection of friends (Ace Darwin?) getting together to go make some money playing soldier so you can get back to the hiring hall for a good blowout & stake.  Its all up to you, mercs are popular b/c its not spelled out on how to do it 'right' and thus is the big sandbox.

I guess he is refering to how a low merc unit operates. Following 3 merc unit of say, 1 lamnce + supports, 1 company and 1 batallion through a conflict (they can even be in opposite sides) would be cool to see the feeling of playing a campaign with these. kind of narrative but using the rules for CBT and AS. I would buy that. See what kind of problems they find with contracts, with supplies, in the actual field of battle, how they manage salvage and recruitment,... That would be cool. Maybe it exists, but I am unaware of this. :)

Cheers,
Xavi

[Colt Ward]

You might want to look at the Chaos March SB then, its set up for smaller merc units (though works with larger) and has sample contracts for each world at that time involving the minor powers on planet.  At the back it has a GM section with TRO type entries and twists- like where the backstab or surprise comes from.

If a player/GM wants they can go out and find the duty schedule for small unit- for instance I can tell you what the training days were like when I was on active duty for a battery and then how that slotted in to battalion time.  You can go out and find all sorts of debates about the proper training schedule, how/what should be trained, what levels, etc.  How much a actual training schedule is followed depends on if you try to be professional or are rag-bag misfits . . . and might also depend on what your employer demands.  Lol, can you imagine rag-bags hired b/c they are cheap trying to be cadre?

[Apocal]

Lol, can you imagine rag-bags hired b/c they are cheap trying to be cadre?

I don't have to imagine it, unfortunately. Some truly "quality instruction" in the sense that 'awful' is still a quality while 'instruction' can be a verb encompassing things that are bad, dumb and wrong.

So . . . some of the weapon stuff comes down to personal preferences.
...
If you ask on here, particularly with the weapon in the subject, you will get plenty of answers and likely even more stories.

Good stuff, thanks. I will admit though, that part of the reason I hesitated to ask here, on this forum, directly is that the posting culture is a bit different. I come from computer games rather than the TT, so you say the HBK-4P is "cheesy" while I just thought "good mech." I'm not sure how to act in an environment where theorycrafting isn't done in a ruthless manner. Although I'm glad I didn't because so many people talked about c-bill costs influencing what they used I thought typical pick-up battles used a double pool (BV and c-bills) for force construction during the first month or two I was lurking...

Anyway, you can put me down for more plot books but only if they lean away from being like bad fanfiction-tier of story-telling.

[Colt Ward]

In 3025 play, the HBK-4P is powerful but like I said it has a few things to keep it from being cheese- range and low speed.  Not much gets labeled cheese in 3025 b/c its the 'origin' of the game . . . they just get called powerful & zombie.  If you had them all together without any of the stinkers they might get labeled that . . . take two Crabs, Hunchback 4P and a Black Knight 6 and yeah that might be called a cheesy lance b/c it has no ammo to blow.  Personally, I do not care as long as the expectations for the battle is set.

All I can say is if you want to know about gear, start a thread in Ground Combat.  If you have questions about specific mechs, vehicles or BA the Fan Article section has a lot of commentary.  Also keep in mind folks are going to have all sorts of different styles & opinions.

[beachhead1985]

I guess he is refering to how a low merc unit operates. Following 3 merc unit of say, 1 lamnce + supports, 1 company and 1 batallion through a conflict (they can even be in opposite sides) would be cool to see the feeling of playing a campaign with these. kind of narrative but using the rules for CBT and AS. I would buy that. See what kind of problems they find with contracts, with supplies, in the actual field of battle, how they manage salvage and recruitment,... That would be cool. Maybe it exists, but I am unaware of this. :)

Cheers,
Xavi

Bingo.

Also things like detailed breakdowns of costs for transporting units that don't have their own ships.

[Daryk]

The answer to a HBK-4P in 3025 is anything with a range longer than 9 hexes and rolling map boards.  That's why they're definitely not cheese.

[Colt Ward]

Bingo.

Also things like detailed breakdowns of costs for transporting units that don't have their own ships.

Which . . . is in FM Mercs.  As far as problems with contracts?  Well we have had scenario books that get into that- and like I mentioned the Chaos March SB- plus you have threads on here sharing the ideas.  Heck, one of the fun topics that crops up from time to time is 'What is in the SL cache?'  We have also discussed fun things to do with ammo you find (I used some LRMs as IEDs), how food affects your unit (cold rats vs fresh food prepared by a chef), who will betray you and how, what you have used to entice skilled mechwarriors, pilots and techs away from other commands (or had done to you), and how to protect yourself from a employer.

But again, your asking for a book that spells out a morale bonus for having Taco Tuesdays.

[Hellraiser]

The answer to a HBK-4P in 3025 is anything with a range longer than 9 hexes and rolling map boards.  That's why they're definitely not cheese.

Some might call them cheese compared to the 4G.   
Probably the same people that call Davion WarHammer/Marauder's Cheese.
Or Eridani T-Bolts.  Or GrassHopper-5N's.
Or really anything that drops an ammo weapon to make the design more combat effective with Armor, Heatsinks, &/or Energy Weapons.

[SteelRaven]

People use 'cheese' and 'munchkin' far too often in my option.


 

[Colt Ward]

I was not suggesting it was in the first place.

[Elmoth]

So, the info about mercs is actually spread thin between half a dozen books and still does not provide the info that was being asked. Sounds like the Taco Tuesday Night book would be an amazing addition to the line, condensing that info and showing what running a useful Merc unit at play scale (instead of a long list of regiment+ sized armies) would actually look like.

In fact I just got a crazy idea here.... Maybe w4e can do just that and run the numers in the forum as a collaborative effort. Let me think about it...

Cheers,
Xavi

[I am Belch II]

I have always loved the TROs so they are a first buy. I love the field manuals also, more of a inside on what's going on in Battletech.

[Colt Ward]

So, the info about mercs is actually spread thin between half a dozen books and still does not provide the info that was being asked. Sounds like the Taco Tuesday Night book would be an amazing addition to the line, condensing that info and showing what running a useful Merc unit at play scale (instead of a long list of regiment+ sized armies) would actually look like.

In fact I just got a crazy idea here.... Maybe w4e can do just that and run the numers in the forum as a collaborative effort. Let me think about it...

Cheers,
Xavi

I am not understanding this perspective . . . small unit mercs are the ultimate sandbox option in the meta-setting.  The whole point of choosing to be mercs is that you are not restricted to the guidelines laid out for playing a house unit.  Want your mercs to wear uniforms?  You can!  Want your mercs to disdain the trappings of the thundering herd, line slime, gullible meat shields-  No uniforms, no saluting, no 'sir/ma'am' greetings, no standards of appearance, every mech/tank is painted different or anything else you will see in a professional force?  You can!  Think its better for morale for your unit to sleep in until 1000 and no overnight guards except what your employer supplies?  You can!

The FM Mercs (R) & Sup series deals with running a unit in the broad strokes- contract negotiations & what the terms mean, what transportation costs if you do not have it yourself, differences between hiring halls in terms of contracts/recruits/gear/training, hiring new warriors, finding new or replacement gear, becoming a outlaw or blackballed unit, Jihad specific differences over the normal timeline, and other details like RPG crossover/inclusion.

Several old scenario books, which are available on PDF . . . things like Operation Flashpoint, Snord's Irregulars, Rhonda's Irregulars, The Black Thorns, Hot Spots Contracts (which I think is where Chaos March SB extended that idea), various of the new Turning Points, and the Chaos Campaign book that offers scenarios for the featured mercs.  All of those offer contracts and play through campaigns for mercs.

[monbvol]

There is also Campaign Operations.  It may be a bit daunting and take a little work to get what you want but it does have everything you need to run a company sized merc unit.

[Drewbacca]

Otherwise, where do you draw the line? What resources are you willing to take away from core game products, for the sake of creating Historical Turning Points: That Afternoon When Max Liao Didn't Want to Pay a Guy to Install His New Garage Door So He Did It Himself Only it Made a Really Bad Noise So He Ended Up Paying the Guy to Look at It Anyway?

I'd buy it... :(