Author Topic: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising  (Read 151959 times)

Bongfu

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #420 on: 19 August 2015, 22:34:03 »
Going through the Taurian MUL, I came across an interesting find. Apparently Purifiers are on our list of Battle Armours. So I was wondering if it is a fluke or if in fact the Taurians fielded Purifiers.
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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #421 on: 19 August 2015, 22:41:09 »
The Taurians were allied with the Word during the Jihad. It's possible that they could have sent them some Purifiers to help build up their Battle Atmout forces. BA was still a new thing for the Periphery in the 60s, so any imports would help build strength fast
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Moonsword

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #422 on: 20 August 2015, 05:54:32 »
Going through the Taurian MUL, I came across an interesting find. Apparently Purifiers are on our list of Battle Armours. So I was wondering if it is a fluke or if in fact the Taurians fielded Purifiers.

They do but the numbers are distinctly limited.  On the other hand, we know the RAF was using them as well and I believe even building them, so it's possible the Republic began exporting as well.  At that point, the Taurians would have the ability to refurbish and replace suits lost to combat or wear and tear, supplementing their home-built Asterions.

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #423 on: 20 August 2015, 13:38:49 »
Do you think a single company of them would be too far fetched during the Jihad?
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Moonsword

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #424 on: 20 August 2015, 20:32:46 »
Concentrated into a single formation?  Yeah, I think so.  If I remember correctly, that's 64 suits - probably a large percentage of their total Purifier numbers - in one relatively small formation as these things go.  For the Taurians, mimetic armor would offer them capabilities they don't otherwise have.  I think they'd probably break them out into platoons and hand them to key commands as a force multiplier to supplement more common designs like the Asterion and IS Standard.

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #425 on: 20 August 2015, 23:08:28 »
Well I play the Commandos, so you think I could justify a company of them?  8)

I am attaching them to some hover transports and planetlifters.
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Medron Pryde

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #426 on: 20 August 2015, 23:11:28 »
Simple response.

Yes.

As long as something shows up on the RATs or in the MUL you can happily place them in a game.

A full company of ANY kind of suit or unit is a bit of a stretch.  BattleTech in the Succession Wars and on is known for mixed units.  So it would be easier to have some of them and some other stuff.  It is MORE believable.

But a company of them could be explained if you wanted to put enough work into it.  :)
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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #427 on: 21 August 2015, 21:14:24 »
I've always liked the Purifier on an aesthetic/cool factor level, so I am totally okay with Taurus having access to a limited number of them.
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fitzgerald

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #428 on: 30 August 2015, 23:37:09 »
Post New Vandenburg Uprising is there any source that indicates that Taurus itself was damaged in the conflict? 

 Thanks!

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #429 on: 25 December 2015, 06:36:07 »
Well I play the Commandos, so you think I could justify a company of them?  8)

I am attaching them to some hover transports and planetlifters.

If any unit would have a concentration of them it would be the Commandos, I would have thought.

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #430 on: 25 December 2015, 17:24:33 »
And happy holidays to one and all
 :)

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Prussian Havoc

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #431 on: 14 September 2016, 09:36:39 »
(...snip...)
In the end, that Taurian Concordat is one of the funnest factions in the game IMHO.

What do you think?

With Harebrained Schemes' BATTLETECH expected to be Launched next Summer, the Taurian Concordat is expected to be on the cusp of War with the Aurigan Coalition.

As such we'll have an entire BATTLETECH Solo-Campaign potentially involving the Concordat in a role as the Spoiler!

...so of course I incorporated a symbol of the Concordat into my forum Avatar! :)

Hopefully one of the six BATTLETECH Pre-defined Character Backstories will involve the Concordat.
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Medron Pryde

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #432 on: 26 September 2016, 01:29:09 »
That would be cool. :)
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Baldur Mekorig

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #433 on: 14 July 2017, 12:44:14 »
Arise from your slumber, Oh Mighty Bull!

Now, after doing some work for my Objective Raids 3150 proyect, i noticed a discrepancy between what the authors wrote in Field Manual 3145 and what i got from the diferent sources. As far as 3145, taking in count the books that exist post-3067 (including Battlecorps Milispec) and th MUL, the Taurian Concordat is producing quite the number of advanced units. Let do a quick review:

Stinger -5R & -5T
Wasp -3L & -7MAF
Locust -5V & -5T
Quasit Militiamech (-51T, -51M & -51P)
Cadaver -A1 & -T1
Clint -3-3T
Phoenix Hawk -4W
Shadow Hawk -7M
Griffin -4N
Ostroc -5C
Brahma -6A, -6B & -6T
Thunderbolt -5Sb & -9T
Archer -6W
Warhammer -6Rb, 10T (posibly a refit of the -9D?) & -11T
Marauder -2R
Maultier Hover APC (Std., BA & Fusion)
Cyrano (Std., ML & Plasma)
Lamprey VTOL
Seabuster Strike Fighter
Plainsman (Std., Streak, Scout & Sealed)
Prowler MTV
Seydlitz -Z4
Chippewa -W7T
Thunderbird -D50
TIG-40 Foxhound
Asterion Battle Armor
Marauder Battle Armor

 Before some of you prepare the torch and pitchforks, i hace to clarify that the royals variants are based in the MUL listing (it show them as Taurian as far as the Jihad Era), and this small excerpt in the Milispec article of the Marauder -9M2:
Quote
Earlier upgrades are still common throughout the Inner Sphere and Periphery. The Taurian Concordat, in particular, is building as many as they can and shipping them to the Pleiades.

 The thing that is weird to me is that while the TC appears to be able to produce all those new models, the Field Manual speaks of the TC beign forced to buy stuff from the Calderon Protectorate lines. So either the Taurian lines are modern, but small (or limited by resources cuts), or some writter just wanted to show the TC as beign worse than it really should be (by following what is listed in the official products).

What is your opinion?

PD: Looks like the Taurians are making, at the 3150 Era, a new J. Edgar version, the Kuritan. MUL show it as beign only avaible to the DC and TC.

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Rainbow 6

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #434 on: 14 July 2017, 13:56:06 »
Only thing I can think of is a large number of lines shut down during the Republic era.

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #435 on: 14 July 2017, 17:38:45 »
"Has access to on MUL" does not mean "produces". The Taurians could be buying/importing a lot of it, or it could be remnants of older production runs or the like. The fact that their millitary was so badly shattered and took over fifteen years of relative inactivity to crawl back to the mess that it is in 3145 suggests that they have a severe lack of production.

So either they have a lot less lines then suggested, or those lines have very low rate prooduction
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Liam's Ghost

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #436 on: 14 July 2017, 17:52:01 »
We know that they are actively producing some advanced designs. And three of the royals (Thunderbolt, Warhammer, and Marauder) first reappeared on the MUL during the Jihad as exclusively Taurian designs (discounting clan relics). It's reasonable to assume they put them back into production.

That said, the fact that these mechs filter out to their neighbors (Marauder ends up on the mercenary, magistracy, and marian tables by the republic era, for example) suggests they're also selling them off at a prodigious rate.

Given how beaten up the Concordat got, doubtless they need the income brought in from exports as much or more than they need replacement machines.

Fundamentally, though, the Concordat is stuck with the same old discontinuity it's always had since the first periphery book, the wide range of mechs they're supposed to be producing doesn't jibe with the number of units they (as a periphery state) field. The notion that they sell a significant portion of their production or that their production is varied but rather limited is more of a band-aid than an explanation, but I'd advise not pealing it off and looking too closely. If you do, you might also start to wonder where Davion put all those valkyries they were supposed to build, or where those hundreds of thousands of wasps, stingers, locusts, and archers ended up.
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Baldur Mekorig

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #437 on: 15 July 2017, 09:44:07 »
"Has access to on MUL" does not mean "produces". The Taurians could be buying/importing a lot of it, or it could be remnants of older production runs or the like. The fact that their millitary was so badly shattered and took over fifteen years of relative inactivity to crawl back to the mess that it is in 3145 suggests that they have a severe lack of production.

 MUL sometimes can not be read clearly (see the Icarus II -2S and the MH for example). But in those cases is very clear. I will show you this comparision, the Thunderbolt -9T ( a know Taurian variant) and the Royal one.

 
 Unless the concordat is trading with the HW Clans or the Society (conspiracy time!), they are building or refitting their old lines to the -5Sb standard. Similar conclusions can be reached with the MAD-2R and the WHM-6Rb. All three are really simple conversions of the 3025 mechs, with items that we know the TC have the ability to produce, and that they do at that time.

So either they have a lot less lines then suggested, or those lines have very low rate prooduction

 The number of lines can be a factor, or the production rate. Also they are having to sell mechs to the open market to recoup investments, and to help their failing economy. We see it in the Brahma (TRO:3085, page 88, in "Deployment"), Warhammer -11T (TRO:3085, page 258, in "Deployment"), the Marauder Batlle Armor (TRO 3145: Mercenaries, page 6) and probably in the case of the Cadaver -A1 (TRO 3145: Mercenaries, page 28, also made by the Raven Alliance, and marketed by the Sea Foxes).

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #438 on: 17 July 2017, 07:51:58 »
Unless the concordat is trading with the HW Clans or the Society (conspiracy time!), they are building or refitting their old lines to the -5Sb standard.

Or, as mentioned, they have a bunch sitting around, in a warehouse or in their forces.
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Baldur Mekorig

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #439 on: 17 July 2017, 08:34:58 »
Or, as mentioned, they have a bunch sitting around, in a warehouse or in their forces.

Or making the mech....at least until some techs took some funny pills and decided to "experiment". XD

WHM-6Rb at Pinard.
TTI is building the WHM-10T/11T.

TDR-5Sb is being built at Pinard as well, at least until the TDR-9T.

And the Pinard PXH is the PXH-4W.

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #440 on: 17 July 2017, 11:11:15 »
Looking  for fleet strength of the taurin navy at the start of the first war. Thanks for tyhed help.

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #441 on: 17 July 2017, 12:08:38 »
Looking  for fleet strength of the taurin navy at the start of the first war. Thanks for tyhed help.

In terms of warships? One vessel, the Concordat class Frigate TCS Parin. (As per First Succession War page 101)
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Baldur Mekorig

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #442 on: 17 July 2017, 12:11:13 »
In terms of warships? One vessel, the Concordat class Frigate TCS Parin. (As per First Succession War page 101)

And IIRC, the TCS Vanderberg, a Vincent-class corvette, but it was not in the best of conditions.
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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #443 on: 17 July 2017, 12:18:31 »
And IIRC, the TCS Vanderberg, a Vincent-class corvette, but it was not in the best of conditions.

I'm not certain it was considered an active warship at the time.
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Baldur Mekorig

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #444 on: 17 July 2017, 12:36:14 »
I'm not certain it was considered an active warship at the time.

 By the current age (or that time), i do not know if consider it a warship at all.
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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #445 on: 19 July 2017, 01:28:07 »
The TCS Vandenburg was not active at the time of the First Succession War (or any time after that, really). My guess is that it was allways an inactive hulk, and the Taurine were holding on to it in the off chance that it might just be repairable.

The other option is that it was a "lost" ship that they recovered with the Word's help. Given how many ships the Word and FWLM got that way, it's not unlikely.

While we don't know what happened to the TCS Parin, it's safe to sy that after the second SW it's an ex-warship
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Liam's Ghost

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #446 on: 19 July 2017, 01:43:50 »
While we don't know what happened to the TCS Parin, it's safe to sy that after the second SW it's an ex-warship

If I were to speculate, my top three options would be

1) gradual catastrophic failure forced its scuttling.
2) Davion or Capellan raiders/commandos destroyed the vessel to eliminate an unbalancing force.
3) Comstar destroyed it.

The original writeup for the Concordat indicates that the last example survived to the first succession war, suggesting whatever happened to it happened before the second. I personally lean towards hostile action, since the Taurians are demonstrated to hang on to warship hulks they can't use long past when they should.
Good news is the lab boys say the symptoms of asbestos poisoning show an immediate latency of 44.6 years. So if you're thirty or over you're laughing. Worst case scenario you miss out on a few rounds of canasta, plus you've forwarded the cause of science by three centuries. I punch those numbers into my calculator, it makes a happy face.

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Baldur Mekorig

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #447 on: 19 July 2017, 13:22:43 »
In other things, its me or the TC is getting way into the "Cavalry Mech" doctrine?

Lets do a review:
The new Stinger and Wasp variants are as fast as the old Locust (and the the -5T is just murder for PBIs). And later they got the Cadaver, again 8/12.

In the medium class we got the Clint -3-3T, quick for a medium at 6/9/6, with a handy (if underwhelming) LAC/5. And then they made the Griffin-4N, matching the speend and jump of the lighter machine, with a Plasma Rifle instead of the PPC.

Finally the Heavy class have become a Taurian favourite. The Brahma speed is nothing special at 5/8/5, along with the Ostroc-5C. But then you see the Thunderbolt -9T....what were they thinking? 6/9 with a LRM-10, couple of LPPC and ERML. It looks like more like a light/medium mech than a heavy. And finally you have the Warhammer twins. The -10T just took the davion imagination and took it further, giving it a 7 jump distance, for a final 5/8/7 (yay, 2 PPCs going 7 of a jump), and the -11T just keep in the IJJ mode, but with a more modest 4/6/5 speed. Its also interesting the use of PPCs and its variants in all this models. Lastly we have the Rifleman-9T, the black sheep of this group. Its just the old Rifleman with a new stealth caparace, TarComp, and 2 LPPCs and 2 LAC/5 for very accurate plinking fire.

What is your opinion?
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Intermittent_Coherence

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #448 on: 19 July 2017, 13:28:29 »
The other option is that it was a "lost" ship that they recovered with the Word's help. Given how many ships the Word and FWLM got that way, it's not unlikely.
I may be wrong, but I remember the fluff as the Taurians having it long before the schism.

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Re: Taking the Bull By the Horns: Taurus Rising
« Reply #449 on: 07 October 2018, 18:27:37 »
The New Van had been in Taurian hands for centuries, yes, they had been unable to repair its transit drives.

Question of my own, is it specified anywhere what 'mech Grover Shraplen drove?