Author Topic: Canopians to the left of me, Taurians to the right-Here we are.  (Read 21242 times)

Iracundus

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Governments (or claimants to being the legitimate government) sell bonds and buying them in times of war has always been a risk.  A very simple historical example is Confederate bonds in the American Civil War, which were left worthless after they lost.  That was the equivalent of a third world civil war back then.   The credit rating of the victor was not affected because they still honored the bonds they had issued. 

So if Kamea honored any bonds issued by the Restoration but refused to honor any by the Directorate since they were issued by an illegitimate rebellion (legitimacy in this case being determined by the victor of the war), she would be acting in line with historical examples.  Different issuing entities, different credit worthiness.  If Kamea defaulted on any bonds she had issued, then her credit rating would go down.

As claimant to succession from the previous Lord Arano, Kamea would probably be forced to honor any existing bonds issued by the Coalition prior to the Directorate takeover.  She is claiming continuity in both House and government, whereas the Directorate AFAIK tried to overturn the existing structure of government entirely. 

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You know, from a canon viewpoint, I always wondered where the Canopians had put bases in place to attack the CC during the Andurien Secession.  Their closest worlds at that point were still pretty far away...

Considering the debt that the Aurigan Coalition would owe... guess we know where the Canopians attacked from.  And while never mentioned in canon either, I suspect a few nice Cappie raids razed a good chunk of whatever the Aurigans had once the counter-offensive began against the Canopians. 

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glitterboy2098

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even if the new leaders declare they won't honor the previous regime's debts, the fact is that the previous regime did spend a lot of money and resources to make payments and/or provide collateral on said loans, and usually to buy stuff before they reached the point where they needed loans to continue.

money and resources that the new leaders won't be able to get back. at best, they have to hope that there is enough of the hardware said expenses (and the loans) bought that they can reconstitute a viable military, since the group backing the losing side will usually start fomenting new dissident movements in hopes of getting access again.. or in BT, might just invade outright to take advantage of the other nation's weakened state. if they are really lucky, the new leaders will have enough surviving gear they can sell any they don't need/want to keep and recoup some funds to divert to rebuilding the country itself.
« Last Edit: 01 May 2018, 17:47:16 by glitterboy2098 »

mrbooth

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Wondering if there has been any info on the Aurigan Coalition having some connection to the Draconis Combine? In game there are a boat load of Jenners,  Panthers and Dragons for a small nation on the far side of the Innersphere.

I know it is probably more a real world explanation but would be cool if in universe explanation.

Frabby

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I know it is probably more a real world explanation but would be cool if in universe explanation.
If I had to handwave something, I can see two different vectors for these particular designs to show up in the Aurigan Reach:

1) House Davion is bound to salvage a boatload of these Kurita-specific designs along their Draconis Combine border or when repulsing raids. The Jenner design is on borrowed time, the Panther rare (and implicitly, a bit difficult to maintain) outside of the Combine, and the Dragon arguably sucks anyways. Plus, being salvage they will be shot up to one degree or another. In short, low quality tier - the kind of 'Mechs you send out to the periphery or sell to mercs, instead of making too big of an efford to integrate them into the AFFS (it helps that two of them are light designs). They just gravitate periphery-ward.

2) House Liao is in cahoots with the Draconis Combine, kinda-sorta, via the Concord of Kapteyn (and boy is that Concord a dysfunctional three-sided marriage!). Liao might import these 'Mechs, but Kurita being Kurita they would only sell the poorest quality to the CCAF and these, too, would gravitate towards the periphery border. Plus, if Liao wanted to incite trouble in their parts of the periphery, they might prefer to send these non-domestic designs.
« Last Edit: 07 May 2018, 09:06:41 by Frabby »
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skiltao

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If I had to handwave something, I can see two different vectors for these particular designs to show up in the Aurigan Reach:

3) A regiment leaves Kurita service, signs on as mercenaries for Liao. Piss off Liao, run away to the periphery.
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ArkRoyalRavager

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Re: Canopians to the left of me, Taurians to the right-Here we are.
« Reply #36 on: 09 December 2018, 09:41:57 »
I'm really curious about what happened to the Aurigan SLDF Royal Mechs. They are like mini-nukes especially in the Periphery. The Atlas II and Royal Highlander will be going through a lot of wear-and-tear, so might only be restored to their original specs after 3050.

But the Royal Black Knight and Griffin? Standing guard over Lady Arano's capital like the Lyran throneroom Griffins would mean they're very tempting targets for ComStar or all neighbouring factions to acquire them one way or another.

Caedis Animus

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Re: Canopians to the left of me, Taurians to the right-Here we are.
« Reply #37 on: 09 December 2018, 21:38:21 »
Well, I'd assume worst-case scenario; Black Knight and Griffon both die by way of complete physical eradication on the mission to get Kamea back to the Argo, and the Highlander gets gifted to the Player's Merc Company, then the Atlas 'II'. That allows the Griffin and Black Knight to disappear.

Otherwise, I'm really struggling to find ways for the Griffin and Black Knight to survive. Either way, I really would've preferred the Knight to the Highlander, but oh well.

ArkRoyalRavager

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Re: Canopians to the left of me, Taurians to the right-Here we are.
« Reply #38 on: 09 December 2018, 23:10:18 »
It's actually normal for all four Mechs to survive the mission, because the pilots are ok. In my first playthrough, I did badly and lost the Griffin's non-ppc arm and one leg plus the Highlander's Gauss arm but that's it.

Since Kamea managed to defend all her gains after the Taurian intervention alongside the Directorate right till their withdrawal, she would've had the Royals to achieve this feat, because at that point, the enemy starts fielding assault Mechs and Kamea can't take the field. Plus her coronation shows two bodyguard Mechs which I assume are the Royal Black Knight and Griffin.

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Re: Canopians to the left of me, Taurians to the right-Here we are.
« Reply #39 on: 11 December 2018, 00:05:51 »
It's actually normal for all four Mechs to survive the mission, because the pilots are ok. In my first playthrough, I did badly and lost the Griffin's non-ppc arm and one leg plus the Highlander's Gauss arm but that's it.
Oh, I'm aware. First time I played it I only lost the Griffin, and the second time I only lost the Highlander (Seriously? Damaged and closer Black Knight, and the freaking Battlemaster decided to punch the pristine Highlander in the face?! At least it explains how I got the Highlander for relatively cheap...)

ArkRoyalRavager

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Re: Canopians to the left of me, Taurians to the right-Here we are.
« Reply #40 on: 11 December 2018, 20:36:55 »
 ;D

That's odd. The AI loves to attack damaged Mechs. It's real cheating to get that punch.

Vehrec

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Re: Canopians to the left of me, Taurians to the right-Here we are.
« Reply #41 on: 17 December 2018, 17:23:19 »
I dunno how 'cannon' the gifting away of the Atlas II is, but man, Kamea should have kept that one for herself, even if it is an irreplaceable bit of lostech.

As for Comstar, I don't think a few mascot mechs in the periphery are gonna bother them.
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ArkRoyalRavager

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Re: Canopians to the left of me, Taurians to the right-Here we are.
« Reply #42 on: 17 December 2018, 21:23:54 »
ComStar goes to great lengths to hoard lostech to itself. They'll come calling down the road, since it is hinted they were going after Nautilus if not for their agent's death.

Vehrec

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Re: Canopians to the left of me, Taurians to the right-Here we are.
« Reply #43 on: 17 December 2018, 23:04:26 »
ComStar goes to great lengths to hoard lostech to itself. They'll come calling down the road, since it is hinted they were going after Nautilus if not for their agent's death.

Okay, so they're willing to drop their mask as the Neutral Party of the inner sphere and reveal their hand as the Puppetmasters of Mankind, the True Heirs of the Star League, and Rightful Rulers in the name of Blake?  All for...what, one lance of lostech hardware when they have literal divisions of similar in armories on Earth?  That's the kind of pack-rat behavior I expect from D&D trained PCs, not from super ultra secret phone company conspiracies that can only exist as long as nobody important realizes they're doing Secret Master things in the background.

Come on, it's much easier to wait for the need for spare parts to paralyze the Royal Mechs, then simply buy them for a 'museum', than it is to send a special forces group of Comgards in to steal them.  Lower risk of agents being captured or identified as well.  Going Full Holy Shroud isn't necessary here-if Comstar didn't send an attack group to steal Wolf Dragoon's fancy factory station, or permanently shut down Hesperus with a computer virus, they're not gonna worry about four battlemechs.  Hell, they might even decide that letting Kamea keep them and feeding her a dripline of lostech support will keep her from falling into the orbit of Hanse Davion, and give it to her from 'SLDF parts depots'.
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Frabby

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Re: Canopians to the left of me, Taurians to the right-Here we are.
« Reply #44 on: 18 December 2018, 02:23:43 »
What Vehrec said.
If you believe ComStar would take action here then you underestimate them. They're puppet masters, not warriors.
If ComStar wants you dead then then it will never be ComStar who actually wields the knife. Holy Shroud, Jolly Roger and the Vandenburg White Wings are unknown in the Inner Sphere (or at least a myth unconnected to ComStar, in the latter case). They are discussed among the fanbase only because sourcebooks named them as extreme exceptions from the rule.

Telling the FedSuns or Cappies where they can salvage Star League lostech from a weak periphery power would guarantee a company or battalion to show up, steamroll the Arano Restoration, and take the spoils (if they aren't destroyed in the fighting).
If ComStar can be bothered to intervene at all, that is. As others have noted, it might be in their interest to just keep tabs on what's going on and let the situation unfold.
« Last Edit: 18 December 2018, 02:26:56 by Frabby »
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ArkRoyalRavager

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Re: Canopians to the left of me, Taurians to the right-Here we are.
« Reply #45 on: 18 December 2018, 20:58:32 »
I agree that they would intervene only with a false flag operation, not unmasking themselves. A Blake's Wrath or ROM team supported by ComGuards operating under false colours.

They will want to make sure Nautilus is properly disposed of too. No one poking around the wreckage and accidentally salvaging something good.

In game terms, they would make a nice secret level where your late-game lance meet a good challenge in opponents fielding Star League units. They don't have Royals, but they do have plenty of the Regular Lostech units.

(SMD)MadCow

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Re: Canopians to the left of me, Taurians to the right-Here we are.
« Reply #46 on: 18 December 2018, 21:56:25 »
It's not like a periphery state would be considered advanced enough to reverse engineer anything from a few mechs. The Nautilus can be taken care of by a few agents, no need for a squad of mechs to show up. But I'm pretty sure the castle Brian they came out of will warrant some attention, even if it was blown up.

Dulahan

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Re: Canopians to the left of me, Taurians to the right-Here we are.
« Reply #47 on: 20 December 2018, 22:48:23 »
I wouldn't be surprised if the Knight and Griffin don't canonically survive the flight either.  But even if they do, they're mostly just a really impressive trouble magnet that might dissuade a few things here and there.  Though by the time it may matter, the Core will be public and it will be a bit less obvious.  Just depends on how long the war lasts in canon.

I'm thinking it might well end up being about 3 years long, ending just about the time the Fourth War starts, then?  Yeah, I doubt Comstar or anyone else is even going to notice.  Plus Helm will be revealed and BAM!  Even less likely anyone cares.

ArkRoyalRavager

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Re: Canopians to the left of me, Taurians to the right-Here we are.
« Reply #48 on: 21 December 2018, 22:48:51 »
And there is that matter of a Memory Core(of parts of one) hinted to be downloaded by Dr Murad from Nautilus along with various other top secret SLDF research files that are just quarantined along with the virus and inaccessible until they get some super antivirus software. An interesting storyline that should be explored further.

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Re: Canopians to the left of me, Taurians to the right-Here we are.
« Reply #49 on: 27 December 2018, 12:15:08 »
Telling the FedSuns or Cappies where they can salvage Star League lostech from a weak periphery power would guarantee a company or battalion to show up, steamroll the Arano Restoration, and take the spoils (if they aren't destroyed in the fighting).

That's probably the LAST thing that Comstar would want.  Keeping the SL equipment out of the hands of someone (Feddies of Cappies) who could possibly benefit from it or reverse-engineer parts of it, wouldn't make sense.  Their likely move would be to either indirectly supply "faulty" replacement parts (untraceable through some intermediary) that damage some other small but critical item, and later offer to buy the non-functional 'Mechs, or else wait for a suitable opportunity to have a hired agent (not a Comstar operative, and unaware of who their actual employer is) sabotage them, then offer to buy them for spare parts.

As pointed out by others, it's not likely that Comstar will try to forcibly take them, and they're probably at least somewhat content to have them waste away in the Periphery where they'll certainly degrade over time.  That advanced tech is in no danger of fomenting a scientific revolution way out in the Periphery, so Comstar might actually be content to let it sit there for a few more decades until it's no longer a threat; they don't collect advanced tech so much for its own sake as to keep it out of the hands of the "unworthy" who might delay the "inevitable collapse of human civilization", so Comstar can "uplift" it.

Icerose20

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Re: Canopians to the left of me, Taurians to the right-Here we are.
« Reply #50 on: 27 December 2018, 17:29:20 »
If Kamea or the PC offered the Datacore on the Argo, Comstar would be very intrested on getting it.  Still, even without the Helm Core, the Inner Sphere is starting to figure out Lostech.  Double Heat sinks are on their way.  Even a periphery company designed a Battlemech.  ROM is playing catchup, and they are losing.  All the Helm Core did was jumpstart the other lines of Lostech and allow these factories to be refurbished and rebuilt to be alot more productive. 

To Paraphase a poet,
The Revolution will not be televised, The Revolution will not be brought to you by Comstar, in 4 parts without commercial interruption.

Vehrec

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Re: Canopians to the left of me, Taurians to the right-Here we are.
« Reply #51 on: 28 December 2018, 17:43:31 »
In the wake of the Restoration, the Aurigan Reach has enough to worry about-the Taurians will want their pound of flesh from this rebellious province, Kamea will be bound to answer the call to invade the CC in the wake of the 4th succession war when the Canopians demand their ally repay their investment, and there's all the damage that's been done that will need to be rebuilt.

Certainly, it seems likely that the triple alliance will see the Taurians regain some of their territory.  But maybe they can put the Atlas II back into production at some point...or the King Crab?  Maybe there's a hidden factory in Aurigan territory that supplied the SLDF in their final campaigns...and gave the Directorate their piles and piles of assault machines.
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Re: Canopians to the left of me, Taurians to the right-Here we are.
« Reply #52 on: 15 June 2019, 05:41:44 »
THE AURIGAN REACH: BALKANS OF THE RIMWARD PERIPHERY?

  In reading snippets from House Arano: The Aurigan Coalition, things started turning over for me as I went over the regional history.  After the Magistracy/Concordat War of 2814 (AKA ‘the Shoving Match War’), both nations basically abandoned the region to its own devices and focused their efforts and forces elsewhere, trying to hold onto systems with greater economic and military value.  The Capellan Confederation did much the same, pulling its formal borders back to Ward.  And that started the wheels turning in my own head.

  Now, obviously for me this suggested itself having implications for my own AU/series of fics, which is set in the 2820s, but it could apply just as easily for the 3025 period, or for that matter to just about any post-Amaris/pre-Dark Age era one cares to apply it to.  So, for my purposes, we advance the plot of the HBS game into the 2820s and take a slightly AU twist: the Taurian Concordat declares the Ali’i Nui of Coromodir VI, Tamati Arano II, the acting High Lord of the Aurigan Reach.  On paper the Reach remains part of the Concordat, and he has the verbal support of the TC government, but for all practical purposes the Reach’s ‘autonomous region’ status means it’s a whole new nation and Tamati II has full authority to take whatever actions he deems necessary to protect the people and prosperity of his worlds.  (That part is non-canon; in the sourcebook, the local power-structure sort of evolves on its own to fill the vacuum, without official sanction from any outside party.)  Being a nation-builder but not an empire-builder, he starts courting the leaders of other local worlds, well-founded principles of cooperation and mutual support bringing mutual benefit and prosperity to all those who join him.

  Meanwhile, Santiago Espinosa is butt-hurt that he doesn’t have the top job (especially since the Aranos are far too touchy-feely to do what really needs to be done to unite the Reach as a nation!) and starts Making Plans to Do Something About That.

(AU/Speculative material begins.)
  Also meanwhile, the Capellan Confederation — which used to own several of the planets Arano is courting and harbours diehard irredentist dreams of one day taking them back — hears about his approaches to ‘their’ worlds and is Not Impressed.  The Maskirovka quietly checks out the local political scene and finds Espinosa, supposedly Arano’s chief supporter and loyalest of counsellors, is actually planning to execute a coup.  This being their best chance to reclaim their ‘rightful demesnes’, or at least get a pro-Capellan puppet in control of the Reach, they start funneling him support, including the services of numerous ‘deniable’ merc units to carry out ‘pirate raids’ against truly-loyal supporters of the Arano family and possibly even directly supplying him with ’Mechs and other arms (depending on their degree of enthusiasm and available resources, since their main attention has to remain on the Succession War(s)).

  The FWL and Federated Suns get wind of the Capellans focusing an unusual amount of interest on a strategic backwater and turn their own eyes that way.  Not wanting to see the Capellans securing a puppet-state that expands their territory and economic power — not to mention the Reach’s potential to ‘out-flank’ established border-defences if it expands far enough — the Mariks and Davions also start channeling support into the Reach, either backing the Arano family or third-parties that might favour the League/Suns.  (If the Feds did back the Aranos, can you just imagine the sheer cognitive dissonance when the Taurians realise circumstances have put them on the same side as the perfidious Davions?  Heads would explode, I swear.)

  And now we get to the outside chances.  Does the Magistracy of Canopus take cards in this little poker-game, or do they wait and see?  Do they back Arano as the Taurian-backed claimant and ‘the devil they know’?  Espinosa, in the hopes of moderating his reign/counter-balancing Liao influence on him?  A FWL/FS third party, to buy an ‘in’ with their sponsor?  Or do they go for a candidate who’ll help them outright subvert the entire Reach and turn it into a Canopean client?

  All this is happening on the far side of the Inner Sphere from the Draconis Combine and Lyran Commonwealth, but it’s not impossible that their intelligence services and agents might get involved as well, if only to gore the ox(en) of the FedSuns/FWL, respectively.

  Result?  Though Tamati Arano II may not realise it, the Aurigan Reach becomes a snake-pit, yet another proxy battlefield between most of the major and minor states in inhabited space, a place where espionage, sabotage, double-dealings and ‘deniable’/‘false-flag’/‘pirate’ raids are not exceptions but the new normal.  Even before Espinosa sees to Arano’s death in a ‘JumpShip accident’, tries to subvert the man’s ‘impressionable’ daughter Kamea, then realises the girl won’t be a good figurehead and simply launches an coup against the Cormorant Throne, trying to establish central authority over the region that actually has some real bite.

  And thus, all manner of ’Mechs and other war-machines might be found in the Reach, while any number of small mercenary commands (read: PC units) have the ‘opportunity’ to get involved in all manner of shenanigans, serving all manner of sponsors, in pursuit of all manner of agendas.
« Last Edit: 15 June 2019, 05:43:27 by Trace Coburn »

glitterboy2098

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Re: Canopians to the left of me, Taurians to the right-Here we are.
« Reply #53 on: 05 July 2019, 23:55:15 »
i haven't finished the game yet, but my guess is that when Kamea dies, the Council of nobles pull a Magna Carta.. while she gave the nobles more power than the Directorate did, the impression i get is that she wound up with rather a lot of authoritarian power that House Arano hadn't really commanded prior to the coup. The nobles wouldn't be able to do much while she was in power, since a lot of her power was personal not structural, being the hero of the restoration and all that. her heir certainly wouldn't have that kind of power over the people, so the Nobles would certainly be able to push some reforms to limit the power of the High Lord position.. probably presented as a measure to prevent another directorate.

which would play into a balkanization situation, since that would make the various houses virtually separate nations within their own holdings. and with the clans disrupting trade and power balance within the inner sphere, a balkanized Coalition would fall way behind their neighbors.. though possibly staying just powerful enough to keep them not worth the effort to conquer fully.

i wouldn't mind seeing the Coalition have a return/resurgence in the 3100's, trying to retake lost worlds from the Capcon.