Building a custom Merc unit... But need help.

[Alan Davion]

Okay here's a thought I just had recently.

What would be a good source to use for things like figuring out maintenance and general operational costs for a unit like this?

I'm looking at the five Merc source books on DrivThruRPG, and I think they have what I need, but I don't want to have to buy them all to try and find what I need.

I'll buy them all if I have to, but I'd prefer to buy just one or two as I'm severely limited on cash currently.

[truetanker]

Lemme sleep on your request for tank support... I can show you combos that make people think otherwise.

 }:) >:D O:-)

I work best within limits, so what type of dropper your unit uses?

I heard some... but what type are you using?

TT

[Alan Davion]

Lemme sleep on your request for tank support... I can show you combos that make people think otherwise.

 }:) >:D O:-)

I work best within limits, so what type of dropper your unit uses?

I heard some... but what type are you using?

TT

Well lets see what specific limits we have to work with.

Unlike Battlemechs that are divided into 4 categories by weight, it seems ground vehicles only have 2.

Anything that weighs less than 50 tons is considered light, and anything that weighs more than 50 is considered heavy.

According to my latest numbers, I have 40 "light" vehicles, and 43 "heavy" vehicles. For a total of 83. Though it seems I lost a vehicle somewhere while I was dividing between light and heavy. I'll find out where I lost it.

Anyway, for dropships I have a Seeker, capable of carrying 40-48 light vehicles, and 24 heavy vehicles, and an Overlord II capable of carrying another 12-24 vehicles as I've only got 12 Battlemechs to worry about.

So, given I have exactly 40 light vehicles, the Seeker could probably carry a few more heavies. About 30 I'd say. Leaving the Overlord free to carry whatever is left. Something like 14 vehicles.

Keep in mind the unit is set between 3005 and 3040, so they're using 3025 TRO stats, or the "obsolete" stats found in the 3057 TRO.

EDIT: Well after checking the math again... I seem to have quite a pickle here. Adding on one side I seem to have 1 more vehicle than I should, and on the other side I seem to have lost 1 vehicle.

I'll have to redo my vehicles list to try and straighten this up.

[Iron Grenadier]

Okay here's a thought I just had recently.

What would be a good source to use for things like figuring out maintenance and general operational costs for a unit like this?

I'm looking at the five Merc source books on DrivThruRPG, and I think they have what I need, but I don't want to have to buy them all to try and find what I need.

I'll buy them all if I have to, but I'd prefer to buy just one or two as I'm severely limited on cash currently.

Well those each have two different methods of creating/running a merc unit, so you really only need one or the other.
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/1885/BattleTech-Field-Manual-Mercenaries-Revised?cPath=4328_4541&it=1

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/3314/BattleTech-Mercenaries-Supplemental?cPath=4328_4541&it=1

Personally I would buy the first one listed, as you get a lot more base information regarding mercs in general with it.


I don't have the book, so can't comment on how it works, but this apparently has rules for running a unit -
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/186964/BattleTech-Campaign-Operations?cPath=4328_4541

[Iron Grenadier]

Anyway, for dropships I have a Seeker, capable of carrying 40-48 light vehicles, and 24 heavy vehicles, and an Overlord II capable of carrying another 12-24 vehicles as I've only got 12 Battlemechs to worry about.

I'm not sure there's a Seeker variant out there that can handle 24 heavy vehicles AND another 40-48 light vehicles - that's way more in just vehicle bays than the Seeker's total weight!

The Overlord could be further re-designed to carry quite a bit though. Heck just go with two Overlords and you should be able to carry everything you need and have room to spare.

[2ndAcr]

 MekHQ is exactly what you are looking for. It will do everything your wanting.

[Alan Davion]

I'm not sure there's a Seeker variant out there that can handle 24 heavy vehicles AND another 40-48 light vehicles - that's way more in just vehicle bays than the Seeker's total weight!

The Overlord could be further re-designed to carry quite a bit though. Heck just go with two Overlords and you should be able to carry everything you need and have room to spare.

Hmm, you're right about that. I was just reading my newly purchased Mercenaries Field Manual, which has a handy dropship load chart.

It lists the Seeker as having a Mech variant, holding 48L/24L, L meaning Light Vehicles, 4 mechs and 4 infantry platoons. It also lists a vehicle variant, capable of holding 64L/36L, zero mechs, and still carrying 4 infantry platoons.

I was going off the stats in the 3025/3057 TROs which gave the Seeker 40-48 light vehicles in bay 1, 24 vehicles "or" 4 mechs in bay 2, and 4 infantry platoons in bay 3. I managed to miss the "Notes" section that says the Seeker can carry 64 vehicles, or 48 vehicles and 4 mechs... And now the vehicle chart in the Mercs book makes a little more sense.

The mercs book lists the Seeker mech variant as holding 4 mechs, 0 aerospace, 48L/24L vehicles, 4/9 infantry platoons, 1,350/48 tons of cargo, costing 105k per mission.

The mercs book lists the Seeker vehicle variant as holding 0 mechs, 0 aerospace, 64L/36L vehicles, 4/9 infantry platoons, 1,350/48 tons of cargo, and costing 105k per mission.

I think that's probably where the problem arose. The 3025/3057 TROs don't specify the space for 24 vehicles in bay 2 as light or heavy. Whereas this new mercs book uses a split system. You can carry more vehicles and cargo, and just a small infantry section, or fewer vehicles and cargo and more infantry.

Are you sure an Overlord could be built to accommodate that many vehicles? The description of the Overlord-2 in the 3057 TRO says it takes space normally reserved for 24 mechs in order to have space for only 9-15 vehicles... Also doesn't specify whether they are light or heavy vehicles. That's not a very good trade off I think

I've got a total of 84 vehicles. 40 light and 44 heavy. I don't think an Overlord would be capable of holding enough vehicles.

So right now it seems I have two options.

One, I could take an Excalibur class dropship which would probably be able to carry the entire vehicle complement of 84 light and heavy vehicles I have, as the Excalibur is listed as carrying 90 "Heavy" vehicles, so carrying lighter vehicles should be easy. This would let me drop the Seeker in favor of a second Leopard CV to carry the fighters I have.

Or Two, I would have to add a 4th dropship in order to transport the Heavy vehicles, which would likely be a Triumph class that carries 45 heavy vehicles, another 8 light vehicles and another 4 infantry platoons. And naturally this would also necessitate a larger class of jumpship, going from an Invader class, which can only carry a total of 3 dropships, to a Star Lord class which can carry a total of 6 dropships.

Option One is probably the cheaper option, but I'm really, really not thrilled with the Excalibur's extremely light armament. It would probably be better suited to a fully operational house unit like an RCT where it has ample aerospace protection.

Option Two gives me the required amount of transportation for all the stuff I have, plus room to expand in the future. Not that I plan to expand the unit any time soon. This is enough of a daunting project already. Future expansions probably depend on how much interest I manage to stir up.

So it looks like I'll be going with Option Two.

[Alan Davion]

MekHQ is exactly what you are looking for. It will do everything your wanting.

I will download that and start experimenting.

[Iron Grenadier]

Are you sure an Overlord could be built to accommodate that many vehicles? The description of the Overlord-2 in the 3057 TRO says it takes space normally reserved for 24 mechs in order to have space for only 9-15 vehicles... Also doesn't specify whether they are light or heavy vehicles. That's not a very good trade off I think

I've got a total of 84 vehicles. 40 light and 44 heavy. I don't think an Overlord would be capable of holding enough vehicles.

Well I no longer have 3057 TRO, so I can't comment on what that variant carries. We know there are numerous variations of the basic Overlord though. Working the math in my head there should be room for 12 Mechs, 24 light vehicles, 24 heavy vehicles and the 6 aerospace fighters. Could reduce vehicles to add some infantry if desired.

[Dave Talley]

MekHQ is exactly what you are looking for. It will do everything your wanting.

most likely all he needs, probabl would still be better off ordering FM Metcs Revised to know why each thing calculates out the way it does

on option 2, go ahead, but I would use the sub option of carrying 4 more mechs on the Seeker, this would allow for better recon or to strike 2 targets at the same time

[Alan Davion]

Well I no longer have 3057 TRO, so I can't comment on what that variant carries. We know there are numerous variations of the basic Overlord though. Working the math in my head there should be room for 12 Mechs, 24 light vehicles, 24 heavy vehicles and the 6 aerospace fighters. Could reduce vehicles to add some infantry if desired.

I have the physical copy somewhere, although it's in pretty rough shape... I had to repair the outer binding with duct tape a number of years ago... But I have the pdf version easily accessible on my laptop here... Although that one has a unique problem as well. The image page for the Clan Potemkin troop transport Warship is apparently corrupted.

Anyway, according to the Overlord entry, the normal version carries 36 mechs, one full battalion, across 6 decks. So that's one mech company per two decks.

The Overlord 2, it says, replaces the lower 2 mech decks with vehicle bays, so that's actually a straight trade it seems. So with an Overlord only requiring 2 Mech decks for one company, it could fit maybe 18-30 vehicles, depending on how many vehicles you put into a lance/company structure.

Is there a specific organizational scheme for vehicles when it comes to lances/companies/etc? I know mechs come in 4s, AeroSpace fighters in 2s, but as near as I can find there's nothing as far as vehicles are concerned. Best I can figure you can probably organize vehicles in groups of 3s, 4s or 5s depending on personal preference.

most likely all he needs, probabl would still be better off ordering FM Metcs Revised to know why each thing calculates out the way it does

on option 2, go ahead, but I would use the sub option of carrying 4 more mechs on the Seeker, this would allow for better recon or to strike 2 targets at the same time

I have the Field Manual: Mercenaries - Revised already, that's what helped me figure out the problem I had with the dropships earlier.

That said, I think adding in another lance, like a Fire Support lance would be a good idea, maybe move the Catapult into the FS lance, along with mechs like the Crusader, Rifleman, Trebuchet and Archer, while putting something like an Orion, Hunchback or Centurion into the Combat Lance.

[Iron Grenadier]

Anyway, according to the Overlord entry, the normal version carries 36 mechs, one full battalion, across 6 decks. So that's one mech company per two decks.

The Overlord 2, it says, replaces the lower 2 mech decks with vehicle bays, so that's actually a straight trade it seems. So with an Overlord only requiring 2 Mech decks for one company, it could fit maybe 18-30 vehicles, depending on how many vehicles you put into a lance/company structure.

Is there a specific organizational scheme for vehicles when it comes to lances/companies/etc? I know mechs come in 4s, AeroSpace fighters in 2s, but as near as I can find there's nothing as far as vehicles are concerned. Best I can figure you can probably organize vehicles in groups of 3s, 4s or 5s depending on personal preference.

Aerospace design isn't my strong suite, but pretty sure decks have no bearing. It's pretty much what's in each "bay" that counts. Take a look at this custom design here for example -
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=29073.0

Standard vehicle organization is the same as mechs generally, though there are exceptions for different factions.

[Alan Davion]

Aerospace design isn't my strong suite, but pretty sure decks have no bearing. It's pretty much what's in each "bay" that counts. Take a look at this custom design here for example -
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=29073.0

Standard vehicle organization is the same as mechs generally, though there are exceptions for different factions.

Heh, you just reminded me of something that happened to me shortly before or after I graduated High School. One of the colleges in my state sent me a letter of greeting, offering me a chance to tour their campus and even a suggested major for me.

The major was Aerospace Engineering believe it or not.  8)

I was a huge navy fighter enthusiast back before I graduated High School, with plans to try and join up after graduation. Problem is my Chron's Disease disqualifies me from service.

But the fact this college sent me a suggested major that accurate was amazing. Still is amazing to this day.

[Dave Talley]

Aerospace design isn't my strong suite, but pretty sure decks have no bearing. It's pretty much what's in each "bay" that counts. Take a look at this custom design here for example -
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=29073.0

Standard vehicle organization is the same as mechs generally, though there are exceptions for different factions.

LO!

I did those, and they got me thinking about a custom unit of my own

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,3146.msg71949.html#msg71949

[Alan Davion]

Alright, so I've gone the 4 dropship route, adding in a Triumph class which gives me one more heavy vehicle, eight more light vehicles and four more infantry platoons. As well as the requisite upgrade from an Invader class jumpship to a Star Lord class.

I've got room for four more mechs on the Seeker, which I've setup as a Fire Support lance. I moved the Catapult from the Combat/Heavy Lance, replacing it with an ENF-4R Enforcer. Another heavy autocannon is never a bad thing, right?

I've added a CRD-3D Crusader and an ARC-2R Archer to the Fire Support lance as well, but I'm having trouble picking a 4th mech, which would help decide which of the four mechs is going to be the lance leader. The other lances it was easy to choose what the lance leader is. This one not so much.

I could also use a little help using that MekHQ program. I've got a basic grasp of things, but I'm wondering how one divides up and/or the units into lances and what not once you've purchased said units. I see a column for "Assigned To", but I have yet to figure out how that works.

On that note, what does the color coding of a unit stand for? For instance, when I bought infantry units, the were color coded in red under the Hangar tab.

[Daryk]

With the Archer, Crusader and Catapult, you've pretty much covered the heavy 'mechs with paired LRM launchers.  Perhaps a Trebuchet, with the lance leader in the Archer?  If not a Treb, perhaps the LRM variant of the Hunchback?  As far as putting them on the Seeker, I think a recon lance would fit better with the Seeker's scout role.

Sorry I can't help with the MekHQ question...

[Sharpnel]

With the Archer, Crusader and Catapult, you've pretty much covered the heavy 'mechs with paired LRM launchers.  Perhaps a Trebuchet, with the lance leader in the Archer?  If not a Treb, perhaps the LRM variant of the Hunchback?  As far as putting them on the Seeker, I think a recon lance would fit better with the Seeker's scout role.

Sorry I can't help with the MekHQ question...

I'd want a bodyguard for those missile throwers. A 4/6/4 or 5/8 mover would be good.

[Alan Davion]

With the Archer, Crusader and Catapult, you've pretty much covered the heavy 'mechs with paired LRM launchers.  Perhaps a Trebuchet, with the lance leader in the Archer?  If not a Treb, perhaps the LRM variant of the Hunchback?  As far as putting them on the Seeker, I think a recon lance would fit better with the Seeker's scout role.

Sorry I can't help with the MekHQ question...

You're probably right about the Recon lance being better suited to the Seeker's loadout.

I'd want a bodyguard for those missile throwers. A 4/6/4 or 5/8 mover would be good.

I just got to thinking, I've got one captured mech in the unit already, the Wolverine 6M, so why not add another?

The fourth mech, and leader of the Fire Lance will be a DRG-1N Dragon. That way it can function as both a bodyguard using the AC10 and Medium Lasers, and as a fire support mech using its LRM10 as well.

[Iron Grenadier]

The Dragon has a AC/5.

A Centurion has a AC/10 and a LRM10 though.

[Alan Davion]

The Dragon has a AC/5.

A Centurion has a AC/10 and a LRM10 though.

*smacks head*

Doh. I must have still been only half awake when I wrote that. Thanks for catching that.

[2ndAcr]

 MekHq, on main screen, find the TOE tab, that is the default view you see as you start MekHQ.
 The box named "My Campaign", left click it to select it, then right click it, you will see rename, can add unit history, ADD new force is what you want, click that, it will create a new unit box. The first box is your highest level, create a new force, name it say Regimental HQ Company, Then create 3 new forces there, open them up, rename to say Command Lance, Security Lance and Medical Lance.

 As you assign pilots to mechs, vehicles etc, select a Lance box, then right click it, you will see ADD unit, a list of avail units will appear and you just add away. I use 4 mechs to a lance, 12 to a company and 40 to a BN. Armor can be 4-6 to a Lance with 12-16 to company, Infantry I assign 4 Plts to the company. So a Infantry BN will have 4 forces under it, each withe a company of 4 Plts in it. That way the Company will deploy as one into a battle.

 So my first box will say Mitchell's Armored lancers, next Force might say Mech Battalion, then I create say 4 Forces under that, a command lance, and 3 companies, inside each company will be 3 forces for lances. Repeat as needed for units. I usually create force near end of my TOE that says Orbital Assets, here I assign my Jumpships and Dropships and sometimes all or part of my Aerospace assets.

 There are a bunch of Youtube tutorials on using MekHQ IIRC. I learned thru experimenting. Feel free to ask and if I can I will assist.

 Vehicles, and such need a crew. Red means no crew. Select unit, right click, you will see Hire full Complement. Click that and it will auto hire and fill every slot needed. So for a Manticore, it will hire a driver, and 3-4 gunners (cant remember off top of my head exact count). Now that vehicle is avail to assign to a lance/plt. Every Inf Plt will need 21-28 individual soldiers to fill it up. You can left click then right click each "soldier" and give rank, and if you click the GM mode upper right, can even edit and modify each and every person in your command. They can be married, have kids and everything.

 I usually start off as say a company, 1 garrison contract later, I might be 2 companies strong with several kids if dice rolls play right. So you can actually "grow" your unit from within after 20+ years. MekHQ is a great program.

[2ndAcr]

 Unless you want to hire each and every person in your unit, you can then select and assign each person to a vacant slot in a vehicle, jumpship, inf plt etc. And the size of your unit, that is going to take a long while to do as you learn.

 In my current unit, I have 1 Mech Bn, 1 Armor BN, 2 INf BN, and a Training BN which has a Mech co, Armor Co, Infantry co in it. All my uber green personnel go into training units. No one goes into a line unit with less than Reg experience if I can help it. 12 mechwarriors, 12 vehicle drivers, and usually 36 or so gunners, up to 112 infantry troops in training at all times. I also have most of my personnel have secondary skills, Mechwarriors are also Astech trained, Vehicle personnel are Astechs, Infantry mainly Astechs with a bunch trained as medics.

[DOC_Agren]

I hadn't considered the Sabre as far as recon goes as I had the Boomerang spotters, and they can out run all but the Light class Aerospace fighters.

But I do suppose that, due to the Boomers being unarmed, a couple light AS fighters would make sense for cover.

A couple Seydiltz's, probably the Z2 armed with 5 medium lasers, or a couple Sparrowhawks might work.

That said, generally speaking, while I prefer canon designs/units, I'm not "strictly" against non-canon designs/units. They just have a harder time catching my interest.

EDIT: Hmm, on second thought, forget the Seydiltz, a little too lightly armored for my taste. Looks like the SPR-H5 Sparrowhawk wins the billet.

A little slower than the Sabre, but better armored.

So I've dropped the LCF-R15 Lucifers in favor of the Sparrowhawks.

Well unless you plan on the Sparrowhawks getting to mix it up, in which case the lack of speedy fellow aerospace support will hurt you.  The idea with the Sabre is anything it can't kill it can run from.

Also on the Customs, For Mech and Areospace "besides" tweaks to canon designs I don't do much.  But where I find custom design come into the value is in Vehicles, having a "family" of designs that share majority parts is a godsend for not just crews but for supply and repair as well.

[Alan Davion]

Well unless you plan on the Sparrowhawks getting to mix it up, in which case the lack of speedy fellow aerospace support will hurt you.  The idea with the Sabre is anything it can't kill it can run from.

Also on the Customs, For Mech and Areospace "besides" tweaks to canon designs I don't do much.  But where I find custom design come into the value is in Vehicles, having a "family" of designs that share majority parts is a godsend for not just crews but for supply and repair as well.

Hmm, after taking down all the stats for the AS fighters I'd chosen, I just realized the Chippewa has the armor protection of a fighter 60 tons lighter, i.e. the Sparrowhawks. For all the firepower they pack they sure can't take much in return.

Thinking I should drop those Chips now.

With that done it frees up room for the Sabres, they can work in tandem with the Sparrowhawks for Recon, and for covering the tails of the Sparrowhawks if they get something on their tails they can't outrun.

Also reorganized my AS fighters by tonnage on the dropships. The Sabres, Corsairs and Eagles on the Leopard CV and the Sparrowhawks, Hellcats and Stukas on the Overlord.

At this point the only thing really left to figure out is the units name.

[truetanker]

I'm going to let you play with my personal custom Infantry unit.

Guppy Platoon:
3x 10-Man Squads per platoon.

Each Squad: 1-ton, 1 MP, 5.35 Damage ( 5 ) with another 2.28 Damage ( 2 ) @ 2 range ( 1-6 hexes ), ability to Medical 10 troopers.

9x Bayonet @ .02
9x Auto-Rifle @ .52
1x Light Machine Gun @ .49
4x One-Shot Rocket Launcher ( LAW ) @ .57
1x Medic

Platoon does 16.05 < 16 > Damage @ range 1, another 6.85 < 7 >Damage with (OS) LAW @ range 2. Shot or Move until LAWs are used, then standard. 3 tons, 1 MP.

My Jumpy Guppy Platoon is same, but only 20 Troopers.

Platoon does 10.7 < 11 > Damage and 4.56 < 5 > Damage with (OS) LAW. 4 tons, 3 MP.

TT

[Alan Davion]

So today just for shits and giggles I decided to go over to Iron Wind Metals and take my merc unit list, do some window shopping and see just how much this would cost me if I were to ever actually get to play the table game.

With the exception of, maybe a dozen-ish units which they didn't have, either at all or in the wrong scale, the Hellcat AeroSpace fighters for example, only got them in micro scale for the Aerospace/Dropship/Jumpship/Warship game.

Also didn't include the infantry because that would just be a complete pain to figure out how many pieces I'd need to buy.

The mechs and vehicles everything is easy with either single or double packs.

Also threw in the mech-scale Overlord dropship just for the hell of it.  ;D

Grand total, which is probably before taxes and S&H, came out to $1,169.70

[truetanker]

I got a Lazer Guppy and a Lazer Jumpy Guppy as well.

9x .02 Bayonet
8x .28
1x .79 Heavy Flamer
4x .57 LAW
1x Medic

3.21 damage and 2.28 from LAW

Platoon is 9.63 ( 10 ) and 6.84 ( 7 ).
Jumpy is 6.42 ( 6 ) and 4.56( 5 ).

As usual, -1 MP for Jump and Move or Shoot until LAW are fired off.

TT

[DOC_Agren]

So are you ordering it all?

[Alan Davion]

[quote author=Alan Davion link=topic=55842.msg1287335#msg1287335 date=1484089466

Grand total, which is probably before taxes and S&H, came out to $1,169.70

So are you ordering it all?

Oh hell no. I haven't been able to work in almost 2 years due to my medical conditions, also been trying to get on disability and neither situation seems to be changing anytime soon.

[Alan Davion]

So after much on-again-off-again hemming-and-hawing trying to search for a timeline appropriate House unit from which my Merc unit could spring forth from,  I think I finally found one.

The Raman Planetary Militia from the Draconis March.

For all intents and purposes they were effectively destroyed as a combat command between January and August 3025, particularly after the Galtor Campaign. Exact figures aren't given of course, but I figure they started as an RCT, and after the end of the 3rd Succession War were reduced to probably only 25% effective strength, or less perhaps.

Let's start with 25% strength and go from there. Also assuming the largest number of units per type.

180 mechs, at 25% drops down to 45.

540 vehicles, at 25% drops down to 135.

5000 infantry, at 25% drops down to 1250.

60 Aerospace fighters, at 25% drops down to 15.

With my unit composed of only 12 mechs, 84 vehicles, 144 infantry and 12 aerospace fighters, the Raman Militia being reduced to 25% seems about right, as the Sarna entry says they didn't take part in the major battles of the 4th Succession war as they were being rebuilt until sometime between 3030 and 3040.

If my calculations are right, my unit would be made up of 26% of the remaining mechs, 62% of the remaining vehicles, 11% of the remaining infantry, and 80% of the remaining aero fighters... This last number seems a bit high, but there's not much I can do about that.

Even in 3085 the Raman Militia wasn't at 100% effective strength.

Anyway, I just need to come up with a name for the merc unit now.