Artillery; Better Tubes and Bigger guns.

[beachhead1985]

MLRS is easy, use an Arrow IV, as an MLRS ripple fires, as they can;t fire all tubes at once, there is a small delay between shots.

Now for MRL's like they used in WW2, I too am not sure how to do that one.

I'm more interested in the Russian stuff since they have always seemed so serious about it; the Grads, obviouly, but also bigger and smaller platforms like the BM-14 and the BM-22, ect.

Excellent catch.  I just looked up 155mm artillery, and found the following reference data:
M4A1 propellant bag - Masses 6.31 kg
M107 Projectile - projectile alone masses 43.2 kg.

So of the complete package of 49.51 kg, 12.75% of it is taken up by the propellant.  Assuming it was modified to be fired via Gauss, that means the same ammunition would mass 87.25% less, or it would be able to carry 14.6% more ammo, or about 8/7.

Using the data from Sarna.net, this changes the ammo counts for the following Artillery:
Long Tom - from 5 to 6 (gotta increase by a minimum of 1)
Thumper - from 10 to 12 (had to increase it by a little more than Long Tom)
Sniper - from 20 to 23 (had to increase it by a little more than Sniper)

Minor tweak, rather than massive increase.  Still would need Power Amplifiers, a fusion plant, or external power (to a larger power plant).

Now that's a damn cool idea! Would we get better range as well? and who would make them?

[Khymerion]

I'm more interested in the Russian stuff since they have always seemed so serious about it; the Grads, obviouly, but also bigger and smaller platforms like the BM-14 and the BM-22, ect.

For the BM-14/22, there is always the idea of adapting an already existing weapon system like the ELRM rack and instead of having rolling for how many hit, you roll a hit/scatter roll for each 5 pts of the salvo and allow them to count a hit against all targets in that hex like a normal artillery round would.   It would be a bit of a pain without a mass dice rolling box but this way you can have the mass inaccuracy but also the volume of fire that a battery of those launchers tend to have.

For the bigger launchers like the Uragan or Smerch, you can still use the suggestion of a ripple fire A4 launcher as a stand in for it since it's launch speed is not that noticeably faster than the MLRS... at least not when you are considering 10 second turns.   Perhaps modify the damage or AOE.

[bblaney]

I'm more interested in the Russian stuff since they have always seemed so serious about it; the Grads, obviouly, but also bigger and smaller platforms like the BM-14 and the BM-22, ect.

For the Grads I just used MML's, crappy range, but gets the effect.

Something like that would have to be a new weapon system, they would do say 2 damage in the target hex, 1 in the adjoining hexes, but with the RoF it has you could pepper a large area.

[beachhead1985]

For the Grads I just used MML's, crappy range, but gets the effect.

Something like that would have to be a new weapon system, they would do say 2 damage in the target hex, 1 in the adjoining hexes, but with the RoF it has you could pepper a large area.

But how large is the question? Russian MRL batteries can inundate grid-squares with high explosive.

[bblaney]

But how large is the question? Russian MRL batteries can inundate grid-squares with high explosive.

Why not use alternate ammo to emulate that effect?

[beachhead1985]

Why not use alternate ammo to emulate that effect?

Not sure we're on the same page here, but here is where I'm at;

Say my smallest system is a moderately powerful 10/5 R1 rocket, fired OS from 12 tubes.

Shall I pick a target hex and roll 12 scatters? Or should I re-work the damage and make a larger hit radius?

Say my medium system is a smaller, longer-ranged rocket that does less damage, but uses 40 tubes?

Say my heavy system uses huge rockets (like OS A4) and fires 8 of them at once?

Maybe a super-heavy system with 4 very long-range, very powerful rockets.

This is still soviet-concept. if we do the MRLS, then it's actually 6 tubes of A4 (M227 mounts two of these boxes and may also swap them out for the huge ATACMs; single-shot massive rockets..unless that was cancelled).

This is what I am trying to find a non-game-breaking and easy-enough-to-manage-to-be-playable way to model these sorts of weapons in a way which is still at least moderately attentive to the original inspiration.

[FedComGirl]

Not sure we're on the same page here, but here is where I'm at;

Say my smallest system is a moderately powerful 10/5 R1 rocket, fired OS from 12 tubes.

Shall I pick a target hex and roll 12 scatters? Or should I re-work the damage and make a larger hit radius?

Say my medium system is a smaller, longer-ranged rocket that does less damage, but uses 40 tubes?

Say my heavy system uses huge rockets (like OS A4) and fires 8 of them at once?

Maybe a super-heavy system with 4 very long-range, very powerful rockets.

This is still soviet-concept. if we do the MRLS, then it's actually 6 tubes of A4 (M227 mounts two of these boxes and may also swap them out for the huge ATACMs; single-shot massive rockets..unless that was cancelled).

This is what I am trying to find a non-game-breaking and easy-enough-to-manage-to-be-playable way to model these sorts of weapons in a way which is still at least moderately attentive to the original inspiration.

Are you wanting those weapons in the game or what would be a Battletech equivalent? Without reading up more I'd use Arrow 4 range but roll on the cluster hit chart to find how many hit the target hex and how many drift. Then have rockets do 1 or 2 points of damage to targets in those hexes.

[idea weenie]

Now that's a damn cool idea! Would we get better range as well? and who would make them?

I'd like to argue for better range (double range and travel per turn), but the problem might be that the rail electrical field will interfere with advanced technology.  For who would manufacture them, it would be a toss-up between the Clans and the Inner Sphere (Clans have better researchers, Inner Sphere has more of them).

[beachhead1985]

Are you wanting those weapons in the game or what would be a Battletech equivalent? Without reading up more I'd use Arrow 4 range but roll on the cluster hit chart to find how many hit the target hex and how many drift. Then have rockets do 1 or 2 points of damage to targets in those hexes.

weapons like that, in BT. As in; not A4 or LRMs, but a real MRL artillery, if practical.

[FedComGirl]

weapons like that, in BT. As in; not A4 or LRMs, but a real MRL artillery, if practical.

I would try to find out stats on the missiles/rockets and then sort them into Battletech. Thing is ancient missiles were many times bigger than currant ones so that needs to be factored in too. It could be they end up being the same. Or similar.

[Nebfer]

Well one thing to note is that based off weight of the weapon and the round, Long Toms are not to far off from 240mm Howitzers, their shells are in the 160kg range the 40kg left over can be propelling charge and perhaps a cartridge case. As for weapons that weight in at circa 30 tons, well the US M1 240mm Howitzer is in the 30 ton range. The Germans also had the 24cm Haubitze 39 that was 27 tons in the firing position.

The 20 ton Sniper, is not to far off from 17cm based weapons in both weight of weapon and shot, the 17cm K18 is 17.5 tons firing and 23.5 tons in transport, it fired a 68kg shell (with a 14.5kg cartridge case and used between 15.4 and 30.6kgs of propellant).

The Thumper is harder to deal with, as 50kg per shot is a bit harder to deal with, 15cm based weapons generally fire rounds around 45kg, making little room for propellant (though weapons like the German 15cm sFH 18 (actually 149mm) fires a 43kg shell with a 3.6kg case with .7 to 4.8kg of propellant, but the gun it self is under 8 tons), though the weapon at 15 tons is a bit harder, though their are weapons that do weight in that range, some of which are semi self propelled (basically they have a small motor allowing them to self redeploy for a bit).

Calibers that fit better with the ammo weights like say 13cm based weapons generally do not weigh 15 tons however. 

[kalbalacrab]

Actually the atomic shaped charge exits.
Casaba Howitzer.j

[I am Belch II]

I always thought the "long tom" was closer to a 203mm howitzer. But I guess sized would be 240mm.

[beachhead1985]

Nice to see some renewed interest in this.

Many of these designs are being tweaked and written into my DerTag AU as production and prototype weapons for that setting.

When that's done, they will be posted, bit by bit in the Bench Rest thread.