Custom Company- help making the Warship and Dropship of a "fun" group

[Prince of Darkness]

I've got some problems I need you guys to help me with.

I've been making a sort of "funny" group for mah games, that involves a titular command company that is so decked-out that even the Wolf's Dragoons (and their 3 Warships) would scoff at.  Supposedly running a fully rebuilt Mako Corvette re-purposed into a linebreaker and given a single dropship collar, they are masters of high speed insertions and even low-orbit drops under the (relative) safety of LAMS batteries, sub-capital lasers for orbital fire and massive bevy's of standard weaponry to keep aerospace fighters at bay.  I've gone through revision after revision (I think this is my 4th or 5th) and only now I think I've got something I like and can stick with.  My problem is that I don't think the capital weaponry is enough for a successor to it's original Mako classifications.  But tell me what you think of it.


                    AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                               * CUSTOM WEAPONS

Class/Model/Name:  Mako Rebuilt Corvette MAXIMUM F***
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 3067
Vessel Type:       WarShip
Rules:             Level 3, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              200,000 tons
K-F Drive System:  (Unknown)
Power Plant:       Standard
Safe Thrust:       5
Maximum Thrust:    8
Armor Type:        Lamellor Ferro-carbide
Armament:         
    2 NAC/25
    1 NAC/10
   48 Laser AMS*
   16 ELRM-15*
   16 ER Large Laser
   16 Large Pulse Laser
   24 Medium Pulse Laser
   14 SCL/1*
    2 Killer Whale
    2 Heavy NPPC
    4 Piranha*
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Mako Rebuilt Corvette MAXIMUM ******
Mass:              200,000 tons

Equipment:                                                            Mass 
Power Plant, Drive & Control:                                       60,000.00
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 5
      Maximum Thrust: 8
Kearny-Fuchida Hyperdrive:  Compact (Integrity = 6)                 90,500.00
Lithium Fusion Battery                                               2,000.00
Jump Sail: (Integrity = 3)                                              40.00
Structural Integrity: 46                                             9,200.00
Total Heat Sinks:    1,100 Double                                      709.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps:                                                   7,257.00
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters:                500.00
Fire Control Computers:                                                   .00
Food & Water:  (180 days supply)                                       246.75
Hyperpulse Generator:                                                   50.00
Armor Type:  Lamellor Ferro-carbide  (251 total armor pts)             184.00
                           Capital Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Fore:                                 50
   Fore-Left/Right:                   41/41
   Aft-Left/Right:                    41/41
   Aft:                                  37

Cargo:
   Bay 1:  Small Craft (2) with 2 doors                                400.00
   Bay 2:  BattleMechs (12) with 4 doors                             1,800.00
   Bay 3:  Cargo (1) with 2 doors                                    1,672.25

DropShip Capacity:  1 Docking Hardpoints                             1,000.00
Grav Deck #1:  (55-meter diameter)                                      50.00
Life Boats:  23 (7 tons each)                                          161.00
Escape Pods:  23 (7 tons each)                                         161.00

Crew and Passengers:
     23 Officers (23 minimum)                                          230.00
     70 Crew (62 minimum)                                              490.00
     45 Gunners (45 minimum)                                           315.00
     12 1st Class Passengers                                           120.00
     24 2nd Class Passengers                                           168.00
     32 Marines                                                        160.00
     34 Bay Personnel                                                  102.00
     34 Bay Personnel                                                     .00
Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 NAC/25(200 rounds)       Nose        60     60     60     --  170  6,120.00
  1 NAC/10(100 rounds)                                           30  2,020.00
6 Laser AMS*               Nose        --     --     --     --   42      9.00
2 ELRM-15*(180 rounds)     Nose     2(18)  2(18)  2(18)  2(18)   16     54.00
2 ER Large Laser           Nose     2(16)  2(16)  2(16)     --   24     10.00
2 Large Pulse Laser        Nose     2(18)  2(18)     --     --   20     14.00
3 Medium Pulse Laser       Nose     2(18)     --     --     --   12      6.00
2 SCL/1*                   FL/R         2      2      2     --   96    600.00
6 Laser AMS*               FL/R        --     --     --     --   84     18.00
1 Killer Whale(20 msls)    FL/R         4      4      4      4   40  2,300.00
2 ELRM-15*(180 rounds)     FL/R     2(18)  2(18)  2(18)  2(18)   32    108.00
2 ER Large Laser           FL/R     2(16)  2(16)  2(16)     --   48     20.00
2 Large Pulse Laser        FL/R     2(18)  2(18)     --     --   40     28.00
3 Medium Pulse Laser       FL/R     2(18)     --     --     --   24     12.00
1 Heavy NPPC               L/RBS       15     15     15     15  450  6,000.00
2 SCL/1*                   L/RBS        2      2      2     --   96    600.00
6 Laser AMS*               L/RBS       --     --     --     --   84     18.00
2 ELRM-15*(180 rounds)     L/RBS    2(18)  2(18)  2(18)  2(18)   32    108.00
2 ER Large Laser           L/RBS    2(16)  2(16)  2(16)     --   48     20.00
2 Large Pulse Laser        L/RBS    2(18)  2(18)     --     --   40     28.00
3 Medium Pulse Laser       L/RBS    2(18)     --     --     --   24     12.00
2 SCL/1*                   AL/R         2      2      2     --   96    600.00
6 Laser AMS*               AL/R        --     --     --     --   84     18.00
2 Piranha*(40 msls)        AL/R         6      6      6     --   36  1,200.00
2 ELRM-15*(180 rounds)     AL/R     2(18)  2(18)  2(18)  2(18)   32    108.00
2 ER Large Laser           AL/R     2(16)  2(16)  2(16)     --   48     20.00
2 Large Pulse Laser        AL/R     2(18)  2(18)     --     --   40     28.00
3 Medium Pulse Laser       AL/R     2(18)     --     --     --   24     12.00
2 SCL/1*                   Aft          2      2      2     --   48    300.00
6 Laser AMS*               Aft         --     --     --     --   42      9.00
2 ELRM-15*(180 rounds)     Aft      2(18)  2(18)  2(18)  2(18)   16     54.00
2 ER Large Laser           Aft      2(16)  2(16)  2(16)     --   24     10.00
2 Large Pulse Laser        Aft      2(18)  2(18)     --     --   20     14.00
3 Medium Pulse Laser       Aft      2(18)     --     --     --   12      6.00
1 Lot Spare Parts (1.00%)                                            2,000.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                            Heat: 1,974     200,000.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        8,916,690,512 C-Bills
Battle Value:      64,391
Cost per BV:       138,477.28
Weapon Value:      26,756 (Ratio = .42)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 1,806;  MRV = 1,465;  LRV = 972;  ERV = 349
Maintenance:       Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 434,121
                   (59,101 Structure, 322,750 Life Support, 52,270 Weapons)
                   Support Points (SP) = 157,895  (36% of MPV)
BattleForce2:      Not applicable




I'm a little split on the Dropship.  I want to use the heavier Aqueduct, as it's normal use as a water/fuel tender would make it easy to slip into a spaceport undetected.  However, I don't know the rules between landing Spheroid droppers and Aerodyne.  Can anyone give me any ideas?  Again, with the Mako's LI battery I'm looking for something that can slip in without being too noticed.

[Prince of Darkness]

So what?  Nobodies' got any ideas?

[serack]

is a little light in naval weapons and each arc has different weapon (was this on purpose to test them) :)

[BritMech]

I take it you mean atmospheric landing, since docking at a spaceport is pretty much identical for both.

Atmospheric landing is covered in TW, pg 87.

Aerodyne needs a runway*, or at least a clear strip of land. It needs to be 3 hexes wide, and 15 hexes long. No level changes, nothing blocking it (buildings, units). So either clear hexes, or paved/road hexes. You can land in an area with woods, but the modifier is quite large. Check the table on pg 86.

You can cut the landing length from 15 hexes to 8 if you make a Piloting Skill Roll with a +4 modifier. Every point of MoS reduces the number of hexes by 1, so a MoS of 7+ cuts it to 8. Failing the roll can mean you are allowed to circle and try again, have to land normally, have to land normally with a +1 modifier, or you now require a 20 hex runway and take 20 points of Nose damage and destroy the landing gear and +2 on the landing roll.

For every landing attempt you need to make a Piloting Skill Roll with modifiers. The list is long, ranging from terrain, friendly or unfriendly airfield, and damage sustained. A Failed Braking Maneuver (decribed above) can add +2 for Failed Maneuver, +3 for Damaged Landing Gear, +2 Nose Armor Destroyed, +2 Runway too short, +3 for going into an elevated hex (if the end of the runway now extends onto higher ground).

For every MoF on the landing roll, you take 10 points of normal-scale damage on the nose. Provided the landing doesn't turn into a crash, the craft now occupies a central hex and the six surrounding it.

*All this is unnecessary if you are landing in a vacuum. All Dropships can land vertically in a vacuum, much simpler.

Landing a spheroid Dropship simply requires the central hex and six surrounding hexes to be the same height to land. If the central hex is paved or road, then it's a smooth landing. If it is water it is a bit more difficult, but still achievable. Any other type of hex landed on, and all 7 hexes are reduced in height by 1.

Buildings and trees can be landed on, and they are turned to rubble. They add modifiers to the Landing Roll, but there is no damage from landing on them. The DropShip causes damage around it as it lands, 7 hexes in every direction from the central hex.

All modifiers are reduced by half when landing vertically.

Both types of DropShips can take off vertically, and since an Aerodyne needs a 20 hex runway, I suggest that they go vertical instead. It requires a Piloting Skill Roll, but the modifiers are a lot smaller. Horizontal takeoff doesn't need a Skill Roll.

In conclusion: suck it, Aerodyne. Spheroid is way better to land, vertical take off is awesome and your wings are unnecessary.

[BritMech]

I have to ask just how many Mechs are you planning to haul around, and are you going to include other troops, facilities, etc? Are you going to visit places with high gravity (because that impacts the minimum Safe Thrust required to get off the ground there) and how well armed do you want it?

[Prince of Darkness]

Thanks for the Help Britmech; that really ironed some stuff out for me!

I have to ask just how many Mechs are you planning to haul around, and are you going to include other troops, facilities, etc? Are you going to visit places with high gravity (because that impacts the minimum Safe Thrust required to get off the ground there) and how well armed do you want it?

Mechs?  12.  Other Troops/facilities?  Not much.    High gravity?  Prehaps, but I have little intention to dip below 5/8 for speed.

The idea is that the Mako was salvaged out of some derelict system and completely refitted into a sort of line-breaker and insertion dropship.  As the fluff goes...

"In order to fit the Dropship collar, the engines had to be downgraded so that the sheer g-forces wouldn't simply tear it off.  This also meant, however, that the old structure had to be dicked around with, and after 200+ years of cosmic rads it didn't take too kindy to that.  We got it affixed, but it isn't as hardy and probably will never be after the 'incident' involving several tons of shaving cream, a few bottles of whiskey, and the high heat of the sun.  However, she's as fast as most heavy aerospace fighters, and that should be enough."

"Stripping out the remaining guns wasn't difficult, and neither was the necessary upgrades and patches.  We'd been sitting on several hundred tons of that Lamellor-Ferro carbide that we salvaged and had no use for, and so the overall protection has increased nicely.  Jacking LAMS from several plants on Solaris 7 was also easily done- that and the huge double heat sink battery should keep this warship nicely cool and protected.  We fitted her with enough Life boats and escape pods, Jacked up the spare cargo til' it was also double the original's, and even pulled out a few more nice bits while she was still being completely refitted- the HPG was one thing, but that Lithium battery system is a complete other."

"We decided to also equip the ship with it's own dedicated mechbays.  Few armies have any directed tactics against sub-orbital drops, and it allows us to make deep strikes possible.  It also gives us another repair bay if our dropper, 'DA CHOPPA', gets put down; always have backups."

"She had to be able to take all forms of punishment- but warships weren't one.  Though the Word had many, at 200,000 tons this Mako couldn't handle the big fighting and thus we axed it's larger anti-naval batteries.  We built a 70-pointer damage bay in the front (to one-shot most droppers) and wired in some heavy particle gun on each side, but other than that her anti-warship defense is somewhat lacking. It's okay tho- she's got a few of those new Piranha launchers (wonder where we got those?) and a few Killer Whale tubes- the former for fighters, and the latter for both droppers and whatever few nuclear warheads we (sigh) keep.  Other than that, my family provided the extended LRM's so we can reliably shoot something plenty far out, and we've covered everything in between, including a few Sub-capital lasers on each facing.  They're just cutdown NL-35's really, and they can really send aerojocks through a tailspin no problem."

[BritMech]

Thanks for the Help Britmech; that really ironed some stuff out for me!

Spheroid is the way to go. Plus the burn damage when you land can be used to clear out an LZ of small vehicles and troops.

Mechs?  12.  Other Troops/facilities?  Not much.

Shouldn't be too hard to design that. That is a fairly small DropShip, particularly if it goes in lightly armed because the WarShip is guarding it.

High gravity?  Prehaps, but I have little intention to dip below 5/8 for speed.

You want high speed if you are going onto high gravity worlds. The thrust of the DropShip has to fight the pull of the planet. So a 5/8 thrust would become a 2/4 on a 2.5g world, and 2/4 is the minimum to take off.

The idea is that the Mako was salvaged out of some derelict system and completely refitted into a sort of line-breaker and insertion dropship.  As the fluff goes...

"In order to fit the Dropship collar, the engines had to be downgraded so that the sheer g-forces wouldn't simply tear it off.  This also meant, however, that the old structure had to be dicked around with, and after 200+ years of cosmic rads it didn't take too kindy to that.  We got it affixed, but it isn't as hardy and probably will never be after the 'incident' involving several tons of shaving cream, a few bottles of whiskey, and the high heat of the sun.  However, she's as fast as most heavy aerospace fighters, and that should be enough."

"Stripping out the remaining guns wasn't difficult, and neither was the necessary upgrades and patches.  We'd been sitting on several hundred tons of that Lamellor-Ferro carbide that we salvaged and had no use for, and so the overall protection has increased nicely.  Jacking LAMS from several plants on Solaris 7 was also easily done- that and the huge double heat sink battery should keep this warship nicely cool and protected.  We fitted her with enough Life boats and escape pods, Jacked up the spare cargo til' it was also double the original's, and even pulled out a few more nice bits while she was still being completely refitted- the HPG was one thing, but that Lithium battery system is a complete other."

"We decided to also equip the ship with it's own dedicated mechbays.  Few armies have any directed tactics against sub-orbital drops, and it allows us to make deep strikes possible.  It also gives us another repair bay if our dropper, 'DA CHOPPA', gets put down; always have backups."

"She had to be able to take all forms of punishment- but warships weren't one.  Though the Word had many, at 200,000 tons this Mako couldn't handle the big fighting and thus we axed it's larger anti-naval batteries.  We built a 70-pointer damage bay in the front (to one-shot most droppers) and wired in some heavy particle gun on each side, but other than that her anti-warship defense is somewhat lacking. It's okay tho- she's got a few of those new Piranha launchers (wonder where we got those?) and a few Killer Whale tubes- the former for fighters, and the latter for both droppers and whatever few nuclear warheads we (sigh) keep.  Other than that, my family provided the extended LRM's so we can reliably shoot something plenty far out, and we've covered everything in between, including a few Sub-capital lasers on each facing.  They're just cutdown NL-35's really, and they can really send aerojocks through a tailspin no problem."

8,000 tons would still be plenty for 12 Mechs and a few support vehicles. You can even equip it with a MASH for healing during their missions.

Here is what we have been given for a fairly large campaign. The large cargo room is because there is no possibility for reinforcements or ammo resupply, so this is way overkill for a 12 Mech ship. But it should help you get an idea of the tonnage you need from a DropShip.

Code: [Select]

Clan Military DropShip

20,000 tons Mass

5g Safe Thrust
8g Max Thrust

100,000 BMF

6,100 ton Engine

1000 ton Fuel
 20,000 Fuel Points
20 tons Fuel Pumps

8-240 Structural Integrity Range
25 SI
1,000 tons SI

113 tons Control Systems

15(7) Base Crew
 114 tons Crew Quarters
    12 Standard
    3 First class (Captain, 1st and 2nd Officers)

90 tons Armor
25 free Armor Points
20.4 points per ton (FerroAluminium)
1836 points + 25 free

561 points Bow
450 points Left
450 points Right
400 points Stern

176 free Double Heat Sinks
 352 Heat Points

8 Bay Doors Maximum

10,000 tons for
  66 Mechs @ 150 tons per Point (1)
  66 Fighters @ 300 tons per Point (2)
  1,000 Protomechs @ 50 tons per Point (5)
  5,000 Elementals @ 10 tons per Point (5)
  50,000 Foot Infantry @ 5 tons per Point (25)
  33,320 Jump Infantry @ 6 tons per Point (20)
  35,700 Motorised Infantry @ 7 tons per Point (25)
  6,240 Mechanised Infantry @ 32 tons per Point (20)
  200 Light Vehicles @ 100 tons per Point (2)
  100 Heavy Vehicles @ 200 tons per Point (2)
  50 Super-Heavy Vehicles @ 400 tons per Point (2)

===
Example Galaxy

2 Stars Fighters      3000 Tons
5 Stars Mechs         3750 Tons
5 Stars Elementals     250 Tons
8 Stars FI             200 Tons
6 Stars JI             180 Tons
4 Stars Moto           140 Tons
3 Stars Mechanized     480 Tons
2 Stars LV            1000 Tons
1 Star  HV            1000 Tons

36 Stars

SNT
HV/JI/FI
Mech/JI/FI
Moto/FI

SN
LV/Moto/FI
Mech/JI/FI
Moto/JI/FI

Fighters/LV
Mech/JI/FI
Moto/JI/FI
===

1,000 tons Ammo for Mechs/Fighters (Cargo, Standard)
 500 tons per Cargo bay

30 ER PPC (7 Nose, 5 Fore-Left, 5 Fore-Right, 5 Aft-Left, 5 Aft-Right, 3 Rear)
 450 Heat
 180 Tons
 5 Gunners
  35 Tons for quarters

42 ER Medium Laser (5 Nose, 7 Fore-Left, 7 Fore-Right, 7 Aft-Left, 7 Aft-Right, 9 Rear)
 210 Heat
 42 Tons
 7 Gunners
  49 Tons for quarters

109 Tons Double Heat Sinks
 218 Heat Points

MASH with 1 extra theater
 4.5 Tons
 10 Crew
  73 Tons for quarters
     9 Standard
     1 First Class

Field Kitchen
 3 Tons
 3 Crew
  21 Tons for quarters
     3 Standard

1.5 Tons left


[BritMech]

"We decided to also equip the ship with it's own dedicated mechbays.  Few armies have any directed tactics against sub-orbital drops, and it allows us to make deep strikes possible.  It also gives us another repair bay if our dropper, 'DA CHOPPA', gets put down; always have backups."

To be considered a space drop for orbital insertion, a ground unit must exit a carrying aerospace unit in a space hex affected by gravity

WarShips can only operate in space, lacking the streamlining (if not the raw thrust) to function in atmospheric or space-atmosphere interface hexes. If a WarShip enters a space/atmosphere interface hex, apply a +10 modifier to the Control Roll (see p. 78, TW). A WarShip that successfully makes the roll (avoiding damage and entering the space/atmosphere interface hex) can return to space in the following turn if it can spend 4 thrust points. Otherwise it will fall one Atmospheric Row per space turn until it reaches the ground hex row, where it automatically crashes.

What that means is that whilst you can drop Mechs out of the WarShip, you can't retrive them with it. So losing your only DropShip would be a Big Freaking Deal. One alternative is to have two DropShips of equal value, and regularly send both down. That gives you some flexibility in planning and location. The other would be to have a main DropShip that can carry 12 Mechs, and a backup that can carry 4. You only deploy the backup when absolutely necessary, but it's there when needed, like a lifeboat.

As for atmo drops from a WarShip, given the quotes above, I think it is more likely that the DropShip would detach with the Mechs in and get closer to the planet, then drop the Mechs whilst slowly making it's way to the surface. That allows the Mechs to clear the LZ ahead of it's arrival.

[serack]

the ship only has 1 drop collar , so only 1 dropship

[BritMech]

the ship only has 1 drop collar , so only 1 dropship

It would require a modification, but makes long term sense.

[BritMech]

As I get more familiar with WarShips, there are a few modifications I would suggest to the WarShip besides an extra Docking Collar.

Typically WarShips don't carry BattleMechs in the bays. That is what the DropShip is for. Change the allocation to 12 Fighters, same weight.

Cargo and Small Craft don't need two doors. If the fighters have 6 they can launch much quicker. Better offensive and defensive capability without a weight change.

On the DropShip side, the main consideration is if it will play an active role in scenarios, or is just some game fluff so they can travel between worlds. A landed Spheroid DropShip has a few considerations that can alter the construction.

First, the Nose weapons when you are landed can't shoot anything on the map. Aerospace flying over it or on the Space-Atmo maps are possible, but really the Nose is kind of useless once you land. En route to the WarShip, if it engages aircraft then the Nose is where you want some gunnage.

Landed, the Fore/Aft guns are grouped into two arcs, Left and Right. They are the only weapons that can shoot. The rear weapons are too close to the ground, and during take-off the thrusters are going to do more damage.

Bay doors for a DropShip can be split into separate areas. Fighters, Mechs, Vehicles. Infantry can exit via the normal doors. Because Bay doors affect how many troops can exit per turn during combat, their placement can make a difference.

Weapon-wise, unless you expect to be fighting off WarShips with the DropShip, don't bother with Capital weapons, and don't overload with too much. When landed, a single firing arc could hold so much weaponry an entire map is off limits to the enemy. My example DropShip has 10 ER PPCs and 14 ER Medium Lasers per Landed Firing Arc, which is good area of denial.

I found the "fluff" weight limit of Dropships in the TRO 3057, 52,000 tons (Mammoth) is stated as the largest ship capable of making planetfall. The 100,000 ton Behemoth can't do it, although I think this comes back to the 2g take-off minimum to get off a standard planet. So in theory any size with a 3g Safe Thrust could get off the planet. I don't know whether a 100,000 ton DropShip could have a 3/5, but I will check.

[BritMech]

A little extra on the Thrust/Gravity I mentioned earlier.

In order to take off from a planet, you need a Safe Thrust of 3 or more. High Gravity will reduce your 5/8, and any gravity over 1.6 means you can't take off (5 / 1.7 = 2.94, rounded down to 2). So this limits the worlds you can visit, but not really. Anything over 1.6 is going to be rare, since the terraforming is usually done on "Earth-like" planets.

[Jimmy B]

I dont think it has it in the new rules, but originally
an Aerodyne dropship could not be bigger than 35,000T
and a Spheroid could not be bigger than 100,000T.

The Behemoth is incapable of a planetary landing for two reasons.
The first being that it does not produce enough thrust, and the second
being that it doesnt have the SI to handle it. The SI of the Behemoth
was left low to allow for the maxmimum amount of space dedicated
to cargo.

There are dropships bigger than the Mammoth in the original books though,
but they are rare.

[BritMech]

I dont think it has it in the new rules, but originally
an Aerodyne dropship could not be bigger than 35,000T
and a Spheroid could not be bigger than 100,000T.

The Behemoth is incapable of a planetary landing for two reasons.
The first being that it does not produce enough thrust, and the second
being that it doesnt have the SI to handle it. The SI of the Behemoth
was left low to allow for the maxmimum amount of space dedicated
to cargo.

There are dropships bigger than the Mammoth in the original books though,
but they are rare.

TM, pg 180 has the tonnage maximums, which match what you put.

Behemoth Thrust I concur, but the SI reason appears to be fluff rather than based on any rule. After all, the Behemoth SI of 30 is larger than the Mammoth SI of 20. It would be possible to build a DropShip capable of planetary landing (ie Safe Thrust of 3) with an SI of just 5. I wouldn't recommend it as the max armor would also be low (22.5 tons Aerodyne, 18 tons Spheroid) but theoretically legal to build.

[Jimmy B]

True, The structural thing was fluff.  But its one of those quirks that
give it character.  :)   

I need to get some of the new books, so I can compare the tech,
see what has changed and what hasn't.

[Gryphon]

This is going to sound like pure ignorance, but why does a spherical shape get to mount less armor than an aggressively aerodynamic shape does? That doesn't make any sense at all to me, so I must be missing something very, very basic here, right?

[BritMech]

This is going to sound like pure ignorance, but why does a spherical shape get to mount less armor than an aggressively aerodynamic shape does? That doesn't make any sense at all to me, so I must be missing something very, very basic here, right?

Less is relative. Aerodynes only go up to 35,000 tons. Up to that point, with an equal SI, sure the Aerodyne has more armor. But the spheroid can pack on more tonnage, have a higher SI and so have better armor overall.

Now the fluff reason? Density. One ton of armor provides the same amount of armor points to both ships. But the aerodyne needs less tonnage to achieve identical thickness of covering for a given area. Because Spheroids are bigger, they need more tonnage to get the same covering, hence the difference in multipliers.

[Prince of Darkness]

RISE FROM YOUR GRAVE

Thanks for all your help Britmech; I'll be posting up my revised designs soon.  Of note, I am thinking of omitting the small craft bays on the Warship, since I've added the dropper onto it.

I do have some things I've been thinking about, however; it's mostly the ship's lack of any naval-class firepower.  I know that my entire idea for the ship is as a Jihad-era, "aint no warships no more" design, but I still feel like it's missing huge levels of firepower and ground support.

Again, I thank you.  Hopefully by tonight I'll post up the revised Dropship/warship.

[Jimmy B]

Ok, Just my opinion.....

No Warships?   Yeah right. (Most bogus fluff ever created.)
Remember, once you buy this stuff and take it home,
it is your World, your Universe, your Game.

I for one think the whole "No Warships" is one of the dummest
things ever added to the fluff. It simply makes no sense. If
we have no warships, then we also have no dropships and jumpships?
I highly doubt it.  I dont care who you are, if you make multi billion dollar
ships to send armies to war in. You are going to arm those ships as well.

Likewise, the Battletech universe is massive, and through out its history
units and mercs have stumbled upon hidden stashes of everything from
Star League weapons to forgotten Mechs, to hidden dropships. There is
no way that every Warship has suddenly vanished.

There will always be warships.

[BritMech]

Likewise, the Battletech universe is massive, and through out its history
units and mercs have stumbled upon hidden stashes of everything from
Star League weapons to forgotten Mechs, to hidden dropships. There is
no way that every Warship has suddenly vanished.

There will always be warships.

Well it is quite possible that the reason for the removal of all WarShips is to allow for (a) plot advancement (b) new tech introductions (c) old tech improvements that would break the game if put in side by side with the old, obsolete equipment.

[Prince of Darkness]

I was just talking about how relatively few there are, especially compared to how many the terran Hedgemony used for the centuries it was around.  The concept for this Mako was that it was a ship crippled and left to be salvaged in some star system between the Lyrans and Mariks, but was soon forgotten about during the ensuing succession wars and sat there until it was discovered by chance later on.

Anyway, onto the vessels!  First, the Dropship:

                    AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                               * CUSTOM WEAPONS

Class/Model/Name:  Aqueduct Q-Ship Rebuild DA CHOPPA
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 3072
Vessel Type:       Spheroid DropShip
Rules:             Level 3, Modified design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              45,000 tons
Length:            112 meters
Power Plant:       Standard
Safe Thrust:       4
Maximum Thrust:    6
Armor Type:        Ferro-aluminum
Armament:         
   36 Laser AMS*
    4 Killer Whale
   24 ELRM-20*
   52 ER Large Laser
   48 Large Pulse Laser
    3 Long Tom Artillery
    4 Cruise Missile/120*
    4 Barracuda
    4 Arrow IV System
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Aqueduct Q-Ship Rebuild DA CHOPPA
Mass:              45,000 tons

Equipment:                                                            Mass 
Power Plant, Drive & Control:                                       11,700.00
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 4
      Maximum Thrust: 6
Structural Integrity: 45                                             4,050.00
Total Heat Sinks:    1,200 Double                                      918.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps:                                                     714.00
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters:                338.00
Fire Control Computers:                                                533.00
Food & Water:  (365 days supply)                                       546.00
Armor Type:  Ferro-aluminum  (1,994 total armor pts)                   162.00
                           Standard Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Fore:                                570
   Left/Right Sides:                 498/498
   Aft:                                 428

Cargo:
   Bay 1:  BattleMechs (4) with 2 doors                                600.00
           Cargo (1) with 2 doors                                      600.00
   Bay 2:  BattleMechs (4) with 2 doors                                600.00
           Cargo (1) with 2 doors                                      600.00
   Bay 3:  BattleMechs (4) with 2 doors                                600.00
           Cargo (1) with 2 doors                                      600.00
   Bay 4:  Fighters (6) with 4 doors                                   900.00
           Small Craft (2)                                             400.00
           Cargo (1) with 2 doors                                      900.00
   Bay 5:  Cargo (1) with 2 doors                                    8,961.50

Grav Deck #1:  (80-meter diameter)                                      50.00
Life Boats:  22 (7 tons each)                                          154.00
Escape Pods:  22 (7 tons each)                                         154.00

Crew and Passengers:
     10 Officers (10 minimum)                                          100.00
      3 Crew (3 minimum)                                                21.00
     40 Gunners (40 minimum)                                           280.00
     18 2nd Class Passengers                                           126.00
     36 Steerage Passengers                                            180.00
     52 Marine Battle Armor Troopers/Elementals                        364.00
     48 Technician Quarters                                            240.00
     46 Bay Personnel                                                  138.00
     46 Bay Personnel                                                     .00
Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6 Laser AMS*               Nose        --     --     --     --   42      9.00
4 Killer Whale(40 msls)    Nose        16     16     16     16   80  2,600.00
4 ELRM-20*(128 rounds)     Nose     5(48)  5(48)  5(48)  5(48)   40    104.00
6 ER Large Laser           Nose     5(48)  5(48)  5(48)     --   72     30.00
6 Large Pulse Laser        Nose     5(54)  5(54)     --     --   60     42.00
3 Long Tom Artillery(60 rouNose     6(60)  6(60)  6(60)  6(60)   60    102.00
6 Laser AMS*               FL/R        --     --     --     --   84     18.00
2 Cruise Missile/120*(20 msFL/R        --     --     --     --  480  2,940.00
4 ELRM-20*(128 rounds)     FL/R     5(48)  5(48)  5(48)  5(48)   80    208.00
10 ER Large Laser          FL/R     8(80)  8(80)  8(80)     --  240    100.00
9 Large Pulse Laser        FL/R     8(81)  8(81)     --     --  180    126.00
2 Barracuda(20 msls)       FL/R         4      4      4      4   40  1,560.00
2 Arrow IV System(50 roundsFL/R     4(40)  4(40)  4(40)  4(40)   40     80.00
6 Laser AMS*               AL/R        --     --     --     --   84     18.00
4 ELRM-20*(128 rounds)     AL/R     5(48)  5(48)  5(48)  5(48)   80    208.00
10 ER Large Laser          AL/R     8(80)  8(80)  8(80)     --  240    100.00
9 Large Pulse Laser        AL/R     8(81)  8(81)     --     --  180    126.00
6 Laser AMS*               Aft         --     --     --     --   42      9.00
4 ELRM-20*(128 rounds)     Aft      5(48)  5(48)  5(48)  5(48)   40    104.00
6 ER Large Laser           Aft      5(48)  5(48)  5(48)     --   72     30.00
6 Large Pulse Laser        Aft      5(54)  5(54)     --     --   60     42.00
1 Lot Spare Parts (2.00%)                                              900.00
1 MASH Theater with 12 tota                                             14.50
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                            Heat: 2,296      45,000.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        2,944,586,400 C-Bills
Battle Value:      53,574
Cost per BV:       54,962.97
Weapon Value:      25,017 (Ratio = .47)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 1,925;  MRV = 1,653;  LRV = 426;  ERV = 98
Maintenance:       Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 490,241
                   (412,259 Structure, 38,350 Life Support, 39,632 Weapons)
                   Support Points (SP) = 63,134  (13% of MPV)
BattleForce2:      MP: 4,  Armor/Structure: 33 / 33
                   Damage PB/M/L: 50/50/34,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: DL;  Point Value: 536
                   Specials: sph

[Prince of Darkness]

And now the Warship.  I am much happier with this one- a little less "hole punching" capital firepower, but it now has huge, 6 door fighter bays, Lithium battery/HPG, and more all-around firepower.  I am of course, considering dropping some sup capital lasers and some of the cargo space for Piranha launchers instead, or just increasing the number of AR-10s.

                    AeroTech 2 Vessel Technical Readout
                               * CUSTOM WEAPONS

Class/Model/Name:  Mako Rebuilt Corvette MAXIMUM ******
Tech:              Inner Sphere / 3067
Vessel Type:       WarShip
Rules:             Level 3, Standard design
Rules Set:         AeroTech2

Mass:              200,000 tons
K-F Drive System:  (Unknown)
Power Plant:       Standard
Safe Thrust:       5
Maximum Thrust:    8
Armor Type:        Lamellor Ferro-carbide
Armament:         
   48 Laser AMS*
   16 ELRM-15*
   16 ER Large Laser
   16 Large Pulse Laser
   24 Medium Pulse Laser
   12 NL55
    1 Hyperspectral Imager*
    2 AR10 Launcher
    8 SCL/1*
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Class/Model/Name:  Mako Rebuilt Corvette MAXIMUM ******
Mass:              200,000 tons

Equipment:                                                            Mass 
Power Plant, Drive & Control:                                       60,000.00
Thrust:  Safe Thrust: 5
      Maximum Thrust: 8
Kearny-Fuchida Hyperdrive:  Compact (Integrity = 6)                 90,500.00
Lithium Fusion Battery                                               2,000.00
Jump Sail: (Integrity = 3)                                              40.00
Structural Integrity: 45                                             9,000.00
Total Heat Sinks:    1,250 Double                                      859.00
Fuel & Fuel Pumps:                                                   7,257.00
Bridge, Controls, Radar, Computer & Attitude Thrusters:                500.00
Fire Control Computers:                                                   .00
Food & Water:  (179 days supply)                                       280.00
Hyperpulse Generator:                                                   50.00
Armor Type:  Lamellor Ferro-carbide  (246 total armor pts)             180.00
                           Capital Scale Armor Pts
   Location:                            L / R
   Fore:                                 45
   Fore-Left/Right:                   41/41
   Aft-Left/Right:                    41/41
   Aft:                                  37

Cargo:
   Bay 1:  Fighters (12) with 6 doors                                1,800.00
   Bay 2:  Cargo (1) with 1 door                                     3,098.50

DropShip Capacity:  1 Docking Hardpoints                             1,000.00
Grav Deck #1:  (55-meter diameter)                                      50.00
Life Boats:  26 (7 tons each)                                          182.00
Escape Pods:  26 (7 tons each)                                         182.00

Crew and Passengers:
     22 Officers (22 minimum)                                          220.00
     63 Crew (63 minimum)                                              441.00
     43 Gunners (43 minimum)                                           301.00
     12 1st Class Passengers                                           120.00
     36 2nd Class Passengers                                           252.00
     36 Steerage Passengers                                            180.00
     52 Marine Battle Armor Troopers/Elementals                        364.00
     24 Bay Personnel                                                   72.00

Weapons and Equipment      Loc        SRV    MRV    LRV    ERV  Heat    Mass
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6 Laser AMS*               Nose        --     --     --     --   42      9.00
2 ELRM-15*(120 rounds)     Nose     2(18)  2(18)  2(18)  2(18)   16     44.00
2 ER Large Laser           Nose     2(16)  2(16)  2(16)     --   24     10.00
2 Large Pulse Laser        Nose     2(18)  2(18)     --     --   20     14.00
3 Medium Pulse Laser       Nose     2(18)     --     --     --   12      6.00
4 NL55                     Nose        22     22     22     22  340  4,400.00
1 Hyperspectral Imager*    Nose        --     --     --     --    0      7.50
6 Laser AMS*               FL/R        --     --     --     --   84     18.00
2 ELRM-15*(120 rounds)     FL/R     2(18)  2(18)  2(18)  2(18)   32     88.00
2 ER Large Laser           FL/R     2(16)  2(16)  2(16)     --   48     20.00
2 Large Pulse Laser        FL/R     2(18)  2(18)     --     --   40     28.00
3 Medium Pulse Laser       FL/R     2(18)     --     --     --   24     12.00
1 AR10 (15 KW, 10 WS, 20 B)FL/R         *      *      *      *   40  4,000.00
2 SCL/1*                   FL/R         2      2      2     --   96    600.00
6 Laser AMS*               L/RBS       --     --     --     --   84     18.00
2 ELRM-15*(120 rounds)     L/RBS    2(18)  2(18)  2(18)  2(18)   32     88.00
2 ER Large Laser           L/RBS    2(16)  2(16)  2(16)     --   48     20.00
2 Large Pulse Laser        L/RBS    2(18)  2(18)     --     --   40     28.00
3 Medium Pulse Laser       L/RBS    2(18)     --     --     --   24     12.00
3 NL55                     L/RBS       17     17     17     17  510  6,600.00
6 Laser AMS*               AL/R        --     --     --     --   84     18.00
2 ELRM-15*(120 rounds)     AL/R     2(18)  2(18)  2(18)  2(18)   32     88.00
2 ER Large Laser           AL/R     2(16)  2(16)  2(16)     --   48     20.00
2 Large Pulse Laser        AL/R     2(18)  2(18)     --     --   40     28.00
3 Medium Pulse Laser       AL/R     2(18)     --     --     --   24     12.00
2 SCL/1*                   AL/R         2      2      2     --   96    600.00
6 Laser AMS*               Aft         --     --     --     --   42      9.00
2 ELRM-15*(120 rounds)     Aft      2(18)  2(18)  2(18)  2(18)   16     44.00
2 ER Large Laser           Aft      2(16)  2(16)  2(16)     --   24     10.00
2 Large Pulse Laser        Aft      2(18)  2(18)     --     --   20     14.00
3 Medium Pulse Laser       Aft      2(18)     --     --     --   12      6.00
2 NL55                     Aft         11     11     11     11  170  2,200.00
1 Lot Spare Parts (1.00%)                                            2,000.00
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                            Heat: 2,164     200,000.00
Tons Left:                                                                .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        8,849,508,512 C-Bills
Battle Value:      46,290
Cost per BV:       191,175.38
Weapon Value:      24,436 (Ratio = .53)
Damage Factors:    SRV = 1,421;  MRV = 1,080;  LRV = 669;  ERV = 237
Maintenance:       Maintenance Point Value (MPV) = 430,511
                   (57,511 Structure, 324,650 Life Support, 48,350 Weapons)
                   Support Points (SP) = 283,950  (66% of MPV)
BattleForce2:      Not applicable

[Taron Storm]

If you use small craft docking bays, they can double as ASF bays.  That way, you can mix and match types to your hearts content.  Also, your warship is a little light on fuel, since it's fuel bunker serves itself, dropship, and any fighters and small craft.

[BritMech]

If you use small craft docking bays, they can double as ASF bays.  That way, you can mix and match types to your hearts content.  Also, your warship is a little light on fuel, since it's fuel bunker serves itself, dropship, and any fighters and small craft.

I tend to use 180 days at 1g travel as the guide. With the ability to travel through most systems in far less, you have enough to get through the largest systems and allows you to refuel everything else you serve.

I wouldn't say that there is a great need to refuel DS unless they are incapable of making planetfall. Even then, they can dock with a Space Station.

[Prince of Darkness]

If you use small craft docking bays, they can double as ASF bays.  That way, you can mix and match types to your hearts content.  Also, your warship is a little light on fuel, since it's fuel bunker serves itself, dropship, and any fighters and small craft.

Dunno about the first rule.

The dropship itself has more than a years worth at 1g, so there really isn't a lack of fuel.

[BritMech]

Dunno about the first rule.

That has been confirmed in the Rules Questions section, so it's fine. I don't know if they are going to Errata it, but I did a whole section on Transport Bays, and that was included.

[Taron Storm]

The thing about the fuel is this: fighter operations, dropship insertion, combat maneuvers, extraction, warship insertion and extraction will eat your supply very quickly.  A dropship, for the missions that you specified, is not going to be just cruising in at a sedate speed.  They are going to be max burn in and out.  Let's look at fighters.  Let's say 12 fighters, with 5 tons of onboard fuel, is 60 tons per flight and that is if they don't carry any external fuel tanks.  There was a thread on here somewhere that gave a better breakdown.  I think it was one that Boilerman started.