Author Topic: How many droppers would i need to ...  (Read 4525 times)

Zureal

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How many droppers would i need to ...
« on: 24 May 2012, 22:08:28 »
  Basicaly i want to build 2 warship that can be the transport for 2 things.

 a whole IS standard regiment with all its support equipment and personell.

 a whole Cluster with all its support equipment and personell.

Both ships have to be able to provide adaquait fighter support, so something along the lines of 30 or so fighters id thing would fit the bill, right? wrong?

also be able to carry 1 or 2 additional droppers, eather assault or PWS types for its own defence or support of ground opperations. Least i think this would be a good idea, do you? if not, why not?

also be able to eather outfight or at least outrun that what it cant outrun.

hase to be able to carry enough supplies for at least a modestly lengthed campaign.

both also have to have facilities that can be used to support there forces, repair, medical care, C3 capability, and so forth.

 What do you think would be used in eather case? how many droppers would eather have to be able to support in order to do that?

 Thanks for your help guys, I sorta have it built but am hoping to get help with these questions. thx

BritMech

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Re: How many droppers would i need to ...
« Reply #1 on: 25 May 2012, 02:54:15 »
Making a DS for a campaign is the easy way to start.

Repairs and salvage are done in the Transport Bays, so you don't need anything there. Medical, use a MASH. The number of extra theaters is up to you, I personally try and scale it to the troops the DS carries. Infantry need a lot more tables running at once than Mechs/Tanks.

Comms on a DS can use the built-in systems, no need for an HPG. Field Kitchens are a nice touch. One is enough, two at most.

Cargo room for Omni-pods and ammo is up to you, depending on the length of campaign, resupply drops, etc. Omni-pods is probably 1.5-2 times Mech tonnage, ammo around 10-15% for a typical 15 mission run. It allows for different types of ammo without resupply.

For a campaign, a cargo hauling DS does well to have a few CargoMechs to shorten load/unload times.

Once you know what is going on-planet, you can start putting together the fleet to get it there. I usually give the WS a MASH that can handle anything on the WS alone, since docked DS can use the DS facilities.

NCSS is a good general-use system. Add in a few of the more exotic Satellite Imagers if you want them.

If supporting a planetary assault think about orbital barrages, cargo drops, Small Craft shuttling back and forth. ASF are going to be a staple.

Really though, it's all about the DS. Once you know what you are carrying to the destination, you can design the carriers. Whether you stuff all these onto your 2 WarShips (max collars? :) ) or it turns out you need more, the designs start with the goal in mind.

Zureal

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Re: How many droppers would i need to ...
« Reply #2 on: 25 May 2012, 03:23:21 »
gotcha, but i have the goal already.

 a warship that can carry 1 regiment for at least a short length campaign and support said regiment on its own for length of said campaign.

 same with one that can do so with a clan cluster. just trying to figure out said details.

BritMech

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Re: How many droppers would i need to ...
« Reply #3 on: 25 May 2012, 03:53:43 »
gotcha, but i have the goal already.

 a warship that can carry 1 regiment for at least a short length campaign and support said regiment on its own for length of said campaign.

 same with one that can do so with a clan cluster. just trying to figure out said details.

More numbers would help.

For example, is that regiment all Mechs, or is it a mix of Mechs, Tanks, Infantry, Battle Armor, Fighters, etc.

Short length campaign? 5 missions, 15, 30?

Zureal

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Re: How many droppers would i need to ...
« Reply #4 on: 25 May 2012, 04:11:08 »
ok,

 when i say "regiment" i mean all of the above, as it would be the dropships that carry the solders. it has to have enough collars to carry whatever regiment it needs to, weather it be a all mech regiment, infantry, armor, mixed. ino the dropship numbers will be a little differint for each, but not overly much. as it seems that no matter wich version of regiment u carry the dropships are mostly centered around carrying a whole , company, battalion setups. with a few going larger, but for this discusion they doint exist.

when i say "short campaign" im using it as a "minimum" kind of thing, i would prefer to be able to run at least 15 -20 missions, or for a semi "campaign" on a single world.

it will have intigrated fighter support, in decent numbers, as i want all the collars to be mostly for the ground troops. and if there are extra then assault droppers or PWS

BritMech

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Re: How many droppers would i need to ...
« Reply #5 on: 25 May 2012, 04:42:04 »
ok,

 when i say "regiment" i mean all of the above, as it would be the dropships that carry the solders. it has to have enough collars to carry whatever regiment it needs to, weather it be a all mech regiment, infantry, armor, mixed. ino the dropship numbers will be a little differint for each, but not overly much. as it seems that no matter wich version of regiment u carry the dropships are mostly centered around carrying a whole , company, battalion setups. with a few going larger, but for this discusion they doint exist.

when i say "short campaign" im using it as a "minimum" kind of thing, i would prefer to be able to run at least 15 -20 missions, or for a semi "campaign" on a single world.

it will have intigrated fighter support, in decent numbers, as i want all the collars to be mostly for the ground troops. and if there are extra then assault droppers or PWS

Well the Regiment needs a little more detail than that in order to spec the DS. I'm assuming you don't want to put them all on one DS. So their disposition matters. Here's an example.

I can get a Mixed Clan Galaxy onto a single 50k ton DS (5/8, 450/450/420, 72 ERPPCs).

9 Mech Stars
2 Fighters Stars
5 Elemental Stars
4 Stars Foot Infantry
3 Stars Jump Infantry
2 Stars Motorized Infantry
2 Stars Mechanized Infantry
2 Stars Light Vehicles
1 Star Heavy Vehicles
4000 tons Cargo

Now, that DS includes Bay Personnel Quarters at 7 tons each, 180 days rations for DS crew and Bay Personnel (in addition to the 4k ton Cargo), a MASH with 4 extra theaters and a Field Kitchen. But if you go for 10 Mech Stars, you need to lose all the Light Vehicles. So how you make up your Regiment or Cluster counts for a lot.

A Clan Galaxy of all OmniFighters would need many DS, with plenty of cargo room for the Omni-pods.

Once you know what the Regiment looks like, you can decide how many DS you will split it onto. You will be able to work out the tonnage for ammo based on your mission number. Simple maths at work. 15 missions for a unit that carries 4 tons of ammo means 60 tons of ammo. Add in tonnage for spare parts like armor, etc. and you have a need of 100 tons of cargo.

Using the DS as a base makes sense during a campaign. It is almost like a mobile fortress (72 ERPPCs :) ) and so once landed, it won't really be moving until the mission is over. That means resupply is going to come from other DS or SC. If you choose DS, remember that the exhaust from landing will cause damage to a large area. You will want to have it land far enough away so it doesn't cause damage, unload the cargo and then wait around whilst you move the cargo back to base. If it takes off before you move the cargo, you will burn up the cargo.

Moving cargo takes time, so CargoMechs to help with unloading and vehicles to move it are needed. Obviously you can go into detail or not. I prefer to work out all the detail ahead of time, and then you have the choice of using it or not. StratOps has the formulae for this, although I am still waiting to hear exactly what a Light/Heavy Cargo Platform is.

Getting the Cargo room right isn't overly important since you can use resupply drops as often as you like. But getting the bays right is the key to this. Speccing out the Regiment, Cluster, or whatever is the first step.

Zureal

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Re: How many droppers would i need to ...
« Reply #6 on: 25 May 2012, 04:47:10 »
I understand all of the above, but i figure if a build a regiment/cluster, that takes the max number of dropships to assemble, with nothing riding on anyting smaller than in company sized ships, how many would it take if i took a regiment, that took to biggist size to fit all onto multiple droppers,

 as regiments are never all on one type of ships i doint expect them all to be in unions or something, but a decent mix of company sized ships with a few battalion sized ones.

 get what im trying to do?

serack

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Re: How many droppers would i need to ...
« Reply #7 on: 25 May 2012, 05:04:21 »
there a ship with 25 docking collars in game i just cant spell the name atm P?????? [blank]

Lorcan Nagle

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Re: How many droppers would i need to ...
« Reply #8 on: 25 May 2012, 05:06:24 »
Potempkin.
The moderator formerly known as the user formerly known as nenechan

serack

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Re: How many droppers would i need to ...
« Reply #9 on: 25 May 2012, 05:08:17 »

Zureal

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Re: How many droppers would i need to ...
« Reply #10 on: 25 May 2012, 05:08:58 »
ant the Potemkin more for like moving a whole division or something? not just a single regiment

BritMech

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Re: How many droppers would i need to ...
« Reply #11 on: 25 May 2012, 05:28:55 »
I understand all of the above, but i figure if a build a regiment/cluster, that takes the max number of dropships to assemble, with nothing riding on anyting smaller than in company sized ships, how many would it take if i took a regiment, that took to biggist size to fit all onto multiple droppers,

 as regiments are never all on one type of ships i doint expect them all to be in unions or something, but a decent mix of company sized ships with a few battalion sized ones.

 get what im trying to do?

Well if you want the largest possible, that would be a Regiment of 180 BattleMechs. 27,000 tons of Bay space, 360 Bay Personnel and 2,520 for Quarters. 324 tons of food for 180 days. With OmniMechs, 1.5x tonnage for pods. Assume worst case, 100 ton Mechs and that is another 27,000 tons for Cargo. Ammo could be anything from 0 tons (all energy weapons) to 15 tons (LRM support). Say 6 tons average. 180 Mechs * 6 tons * 15 missions = 16,200 tons.

So, total of 27,000 + 2,520 + 324 + 27,000 + 16,200 = 73,044 tons. Possible on two 100k ton, 3/5 DS with low armor and stripped of almost all weapons/amenities. Better off saying 3, even 4 100k ton DS. Since 180 is 5 Battalions, it would make sense to have 1 DS per Battalion.
« Last Edit: 25 May 2012, 06:41:08 by BritMech »

serack

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Re: How many droppers would i need to ...
« Reply #12 on: 25 May 2012, 06:04:50 »
ant the Potemkin more for like moving a whole division or something? not just a single regiment

yes but it does due what he asked and there are smaller versions in game carracks and such , build from them as a base :)

Zureal

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Re: How many droppers would i need to ...
« Reply #13 on: 25 May 2012, 06:32:09 »
Well if you want the largest possible, that would be a Regiment of 180 BattleMechs.

 arnt normal mech regiments 108 mechs? ???  and when i said , "largest possible" i ment that in regards to the normal 108 "points" of individual units that make up a BT regiment on average, yes some are bigger or smaller, but im averaging here.

good points though, ill just go with a smaller potemkin kinda thing prolly, with 12-15 collars, should hold everything a regiment needs.

BritMech

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Re: How many droppers would i need to ...
« Reply #14 on: 25 May 2012, 06:41:56 »
arnt normal mech regiments 108 mechs? ???  and when i said , "largest possible" i ment that in regards to the normal 108 "points" of individual units that make up a BT regiment on average, yes some are bigger or smaller, but im averaging here.

good points though, ill just go with a smaller potemkin kinda thing prolly, with 12-15 collars, should hold everything a regiment needs.

Regiment is 3 to 5 Battalions. I went with 5. Worst case.

Zureal

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Re: How many droppers would i need to ...
« Reply #15 on: 25 May 2012, 06:44:55 »
Regiment is 3 to 5 Battalions. I went with 5. Worst case.

 oh, ok.

BritMech

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Re: How many droppers would i need to ...
« Reply #16 on: 25 May 2012, 08:07:49 »
oh, ok.

And of course, this is just the Mechs. No additional support like artillery or Fighters.

Fireangel

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Re: How many droppers would i need to ...
« Reply #17 on: 25 May 2012, 18:10:05 »
Strictly speaking, you can transport an entire 108-'mech regiment with all its tech, admin and non-combat support assets in four dropships (3 x Overlord + 1 x Excalibur or similar).

Of course, that is putting all your eggs in one basket.

It's been calculated that the (realistic) transport needs of a FedCom RCT (1 'mech, 3 armour, 5 infantry + support) is 61 dropships.




gimme a sec.............



OK... found it.
For the record, I did not make it. Credit to the author.

Zureal

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Re: How many droppers would i need to ...
« Reply #18 on: 26 May 2012, 02:02:33 »
true, but im talking about just 1 regiment, not the whole RCT

BritMech

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Re: How many droppers would i need to ...
« Reply #19 on: 26 May 2012, 02:31:55 »
true, but im talking about just 1 regiment, not the whole RCT

Of how many battalions, and how many companies, with what support?

Zureal

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Re: How many droppers would i need to ...
« Reply #20 on: 26 May 2012, 03:12:31 »
well out of that rct, lets say the whole of the mech regiment and all its support staff/equipment.  with a normal mix of DS, usualy what... 1 overlord and 6 unions? or something like that is normal? plus a aditional 2 DS for the rest support stuff?

Fireangel

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Re: How many droppers would i need to ...
« Reply #21 on: 26 May 2012, 08:53:40 »
true, but im talking about just 1 regiment, not the whole RCT

Yes, but the document breaks down the RCT by regiments and battalions, as you have doubtlessly discovered by now.

Like I said earlier, you can transport the regiment in as few as four droppers. Heck, if you have time to burn you can transport the entire regiment as cargo in a single large dropper.

More practically, a single Overlord, five Unions and three Leopards can transport the 'mech/ASF contingent, with an extra dropper or two to carry the non-combat assets and supplies.

This can be carried by three Invader jumpers and a Merchant.


I personally never use 'mechs without armour or infantry support, so when moving a 'mech regiment I usually need at least twice this number of droppers/jumpers.

Zureal

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Re: How many droppers would i need to ...
« Reply #22 on: 26 May 2012, 13:46:50 »
so lets assume 11 and ill round up to 12 collars to move 1 entire regiment and all its assets. ok. ill start making a transport based around that idea. cuz then i can move a entire RTC with just a few of these ships vs needing dozens of jumpships.

truetanker

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Re: How many droppers would i need to ...
« Reply #23 on: 29 May 2012, 17:35:03 »
Check out Strategic Operations, has many charts to run with on the creating units based on weight or classic feel.

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Zureal

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Re: How many droppers would i need to ...
« Reply #24 on: 29 May 2012, 17:57:27 »
Check out Strategic Operations, has many charts to run with on the creating units based on weight or classic feel.

TT

 oh, didnt think of that, thx :)