Author Topic: Ngoverse/"The Administrator" setting: A bad idea given form.  (Read 1449 times)

Cannonshop

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[ooc note: I wasn't sure which forum to stick this in.]

time period: 3162

Her Majesty, the Archon Trillian Steiner Davion, (may she reign long and prosperously) is in a bit of a jam with her senior staff, and has decided to act in opposition to their advice in hopes of proving her point.  She sees a certain trend in her Navy and Ground Forces, and while she tolerates this trend, she has also been reading a bit too many classical novels of late, particularly the Sovereign Stars novels set in the 28th century.

She wishes to know if the addition of a force of Land/Air 'mechs would be an asset, or a detriment, and she feels the immediate distrust expressed by both Naval Chief of Staff the Fleet Admiral Emily Falcone, and LCAF Marshall of the Armies Roderick Steiner to be somewhat prejudiced and counter productive.

She wishes to see if modern, updated Land/Air 'mech designs might be an effective boost for either the LCAF's reconaissance arm, or the LCN's "Marine Corps" arm.

She therefore presents to Aviation companies and 'mech producers in the Commonwealth the following challenge:

Design a useful and good Land/Air 'Mech.  Use whatever technologies you think may work to make this an effective and useful machine, tender your initial designs in one year's time with a prototype.  the best prototypes will be engaged in troop trials with the 1st Royal Guards and the 1st Commonwealth Naval Marines.

If trials prove fruitful, she will consider letting a production contract to equip LCN and LCAF forces.
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

kindalas

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Re: Ngoverse/"The Administrator" setting: A bad idea given form.
« Reply #1 on: 23 May 2020, 13:05:36 »
The Griffin has long been part of the imagery linked to the LCAF and the office of the Archon because of this it was felt that a specialist design like a LAM could be easily attached the prestige that the Griffen already possesses.

It was felt that innovation would be the only way to properly differentiate the design from the competition's offerings.

The core of the design was to use improved jump jets based on the prototype units developed on Hoff by the Federated Suns.

The technology was abandoned after the famous Wolf Dragoon Raid in the 3020s but the schematics made it to the Lyran Commonwealth during the Federated Commonwealth years.

Weaponry was chosen to mimic the original Griffin but Clan specification weaponry was sourced from Sea Fox merchants.

Two LRM 5s and an ERPPC (with a capacitor) were installed in the LAM's torsos along with an extra two tons of fuel to extend the LAM's utility as an exceptional mobile force.

When compared to dedicated conventional Mech or Areospace fighter the Griffin LAM falls short but the enhanced Clan weaponry and the risky jump jet design bring the LAM closer to the standard set by regular units.

Code: [Select]
Griffin LAM

Mass: 55 tons
Chassis: Standard LAM
Power Plant: 220 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 43.2 kph
Maximum Speed: 64.8 kph
Jump Jets: Improved (Prototype)
     Jump Capacity: 180 meters
Armor: Standard
Armament:
     1 ER PPC
     2 LRM 5
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3160
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-X-X
Cost: 6,364,636 C-bills

Type: Griffin LAM
Technology Base: Mixed (Experimental)
Tonnage: 55
Battle Value: 2,564

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                  5.5
LAM Conversion Equipment                            5.5
Engine                        220 Fusion             10
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 6
AirMech Cruising MP: 18
AirMech Flanking MP: 27
Safe Thrust: 6
Max Thrust: 9
Double Heat Sink              10 [20]                 0
Gyro                                                  3
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  185                    12

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            18        27   
     Center Torso (rear)               9     
     R/L Torso               13        20   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  6     
     R/L Arm                 9         18   
     R/L Leg                 13        26   


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo                         Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
2 Prototype Improved Jump Jets      LL        2        -       1.0   
Prototype Improved Jump Jet         RT        1        -       0.5   
ER PPC                              RT        2        15      6.0   
Double Heat Sink                    RT        3        -       1.0   
PPC Capacitor                       RT        1        -       1.0   
CASE II                             LT        1        -       1.0   
2 LRM 5s                            LT        2        2       2.0   
Prototype Improved Jump Jet         LT        1        -       0.5   
Cargo                               LT        2        -       2.0   
Double Heat Sink                    LT        3        -       1.0   
LRM 5 Ammo (24)                     LT        1        -       1.0   
2 Prototype Improved Jump Jets      RL        2        -       1.0   

Daryk

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Re: Ngoverse/"The Administrator" setting: A bad idea given form.
« Reply #2 on: 23 May 2020, 16:22:15 »
I think I have this about right.  To fit all the electronics I had to use Composite Structure, but the whole point of a LAM is to not get shot.  TAG can be mounted in a Bomb Bay if necessary, so I didn't feel the need to install it permanently.  Why Remote Sensor Dispensers or Recon Cameras can't be is beyond me.  I stuck with regular Small Lasers because they can be used for Point Defense while ERs can't be.

Code: [Select]
Huginn LAM HGN-1L

Mass: 55 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: All Eras (non-canon)
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-F-A
Production Year: 0
Dry Cost:
Total Cost:
Battle Value:

Chassis: Unknown Composite Structure
Power Plant: Unknown 275 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 150 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
    1  ER Medium Laser
    1  Small Pulse Laser
    4  Small Lasers
    1  Recon Camera
    1  Remote Sensor Dispenser
    1  Bloodhound Active Probe
    1  Angel ECM
    2  1-ton Bomb Bays
    1  LAM Conversion Equipment (5.5 tons)
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Composite Structure           91 points                3.00
Engine:             Fusion Engine                275                      15.50
    Walking MP: 5
    Running MP: 8
    Jumping MP: 5 Standard
    AirMech Cruise MP: 15
    AirMech Flank MP: 23
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT                                   2.50
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             10(20)                    0.00
LAM Conversion Equipment:                                                 5.50
Gyro:               Standard                                               3.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 184                 11.50

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            8         
                                        Center Torso     18           30       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  6         
                                           L/R Torso     13           20       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  6         
                                             L/R Arm     9            18       
                                             L/R Leg     13           26       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER Medium Laser                              RA        5         1         1.00
Small Pulse Laser                            LA        2         1         1.00
Recon Camera                                 RT        0         1         0.50
Bloodhound Active Probe                      RT        0         3         2.00
Bomb Bay (1 ton)                             RT        0         1         1.00
Avionics                                     RT        0         1         0.00
Landing Gear                                 RT        0         1         0.00
2 Small Lasers                               RT        2         2         1.00
Remote Sensor Dispenser                      LT        0         1         0.50
Angel ECM                                    LT        0         2         2.00
Bomb Bay (1 ton)                             LT        0         1         1.00
Avionics                                     LT        0         1         0.00
Landing Gear                                 LT        0         1         0.00
2 Small Lasers                               LT        2         2         1.00
Landing Gear                                 CT        0         1         0.00
Avionics                                     HD        0         1         0.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 21

Dave Talley

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Re: Ngoverse/"The Administrator" setting: A bad idea given form.
« Reply #3 on: 23 May 2020, 22:11:51 »
could a decent partial wing unit work, you get some of the extra movement without the giant pain in the butt of maintaining it
Resident Smartass since 1998
“Toe jam in training”

Because while the other Great Houses of the Star League thought they were playing chess, House Cameron was playing Paradox-Billiards-Vostroyan-Roulette-Fourth Dimensional-Hypercube-Chess-Strip Poker the entire time.
JA Baker

Daryk

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Re: Ngoverse/"The Administrator" setting: A bad idea given form.
« Reply #4 on: 23 May 2020, 22:29:23 »
Partial Wings are explicitly banned for LAMs (IO, page 115).  Unless you were asking if a Partial Wing 'mech would meet the requirement?  ???

Dave Talley

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Re: Ngoverse/"The Administrator" setting: A bad idea given form.
« Reply #5 on: 24 May 2020, 11:03:44 »
exactly, a decent mech, with a 7/11/7 move normally could get jump of 10 with partial wings at only 3 tons iirc?

a lot less expensive and less maintenance
Resident Smartass since 1998
“Toe jam in training”

Because while the other Great Houses of the Star League thought they were playing chess, House Cameron was playing Paradox-Billiards-Vostroyan-Roulette-Fourth Dimensional-Hypercube-Chess-Strip Poker the entire time.
JA Baker

Daryk

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Re: Ngoverse/"The Administrator" setting: A bad idea given form.
« Reply #6 on: 24 May 2020, 11:06:39 »
Add in the jump jet tonnage, and I'm less sure you'll find the sweet spot you're looking for...

Sharpnel

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Re: Ngoverse/"The Administrator" setting: A bad idea given form.
« Reply #7 on: 24 May 2020, 11:22:38 »
Here's my stab in the dark

Code: [Select]
Hayabusa  LAM

Mass: 45 tons
Chassis: Standard LAM
Power Plant: 225 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 54 kph
Maximum Speed: 86.4 kph
Jump Jets: Standard
     Jump Capacity: 150 meters
Armor: Standard
Armament:
     2 ER Medium Laser
     2 Streak SRM 4
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3155
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-F
Cost: 4,571,415 C-bills

Type: Hayabusa
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Tonnage: 45
Battle Value: 1,335

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                  4.5
LAM Conversion Equipment                            4.5
Engine                        225 Fusion             10
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 5
AirMech Cruising MP: 15
AirMech Flanking MP: 23
Safe Thrust: 5
Max Thrust: 8
Heat Sink                     10                      0
Gyro                                                  3
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  88                    5.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            14        12   
     Center Torso (rear)               3     
     R/L Torso               11        10   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  3     
     R/L Arm                 7         7     
     R/L Leg                 11        12   


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo                 Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Jump Jet                    LL        1        -       0.5   
Jump Jet                    CT        1        -       0.5   
Streak SRM 4                RT        1        3       3.0   
Bomb Bay                    RT        1        -       1.0   
Heat Sink                   RT        1        -       1.0   
Jump Jet                    RT        1        -       0.5   
Streak SRM 4 Ammo (25)      RT        1        -       1.0   
ER Medium Laser             LA        1        5       1.0   
Streak SRM 4                LT        1        3       3.0   
Bomb Bay                    LT        1        -       1.0   
Jump Jet                    LT        1        -       0.5   
Streak SRM 4 Ammo (25)      LT        1        -       1.0   
Jump Jet                    RL        1        -       0.5   
ER Medium Laser             RA        1        5       1.0   

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Daryk

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Re: Ngoverse/"The Administrator" setting: A bad idea given form.
« Reply #8 on: 24 May 2020, 12:40:40 »
Hmmm.. the arms can be taken off by a single lucky Gauss Rifle hit... not a place I'd put a main weapon, honestly...

glitterboy2098

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Re: Ngoverse/"The Administrator" setting: A bad idea given form.
« Reply #9 on: 24 May 2020, 16:22:39 »
The Angon was jointly developed by Federated-Boeing Interstellar and Kressly Technologies, based on technologies recovered at the former Harvard Company Testing Facility on Epsilon Eridani (now the Kressly Aerospace Plant.) Loosely derived from the Federated-Boeing Tomahawk Aerospace fighter, the Angon makes use of advanced technologies to achieve high performance. Designed as a high speed special operations platform, it combines eight Improved jump jets for high mobility with Twin Light Particle Projection Cannons and a five ton Bomb bay for long range and flexible firepower. Standard loadout for this bay is a mix of Target Acquisition Gear, additional Fuel Tanks for extended flight range, and/or Rocket Pods for increased firepower, although Federated-Boeing and Kressly Technologies offer a series of hardpoint mounted Electronic Countermeasures, Active Probe, and Recon pods which can be fitted to expand the LAM's capabilities. The Bomb Bay of also fitted with attachment points allowing it to carry and deploy all variants of the fighter deployed Arrow-IV  missile, including the Fighter Deployed Davy Crockett.
To achieve this mobility and firepower however some compromises were required. On the ground the unit is only capable of reaching 86.4 kph, little better than a succession wars mech of similar mass, and its small cockpit can cause control issues in emergency situations. in addition the LAM carries only 60% of its maximum armor capacity, and makes use of a composite internal structure, making it less survivable against heavy firepower. This was deemed acceptable given its intended role, although Federated Boeing and Kressly Technologies continue research into new protective technologies for application on future iterations of the Land-Air-Mech platform.

Quote
ANG-1-LAM Angon
Mass: 55 tons
Chassis: Composite LAM
Power Plant: 275 Fusion
   Cruising Speed: 86.4 kph
   Maximum Speed: 129.6 kph
Armor: Standard
Armament:
      2 Light PPC
Manufacturer: Kressly Technologies & Federated Boeing Interstellar
Communication System: Kressly-Rand 1400
Targeting & Tracking System: IMB-5000M
Introduction Year: 3165
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-X
Cost: 7,728,507 C-bills

Type: Tomahawk
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Tonnage: 55 Battle Value: 1,339

Equipment         Mass
Internal Structure (Composite)   3
LAM Conversion Equipment   5.5
Engine   275 Fusion      15.5
     Walking MP:   5
     Running MP:   8
     Jumping MP:   8
     AirMech Cruising MP:   24
     AirMech Flanking MP:   36
     Safe Thrust:   8
     Max Thrust:   12
Double Heat Sink:   10 [20]   0
Gyro:            3
Small Cockpit:         2
Armor Factor:   112      7
   Location   Internal Structure   Armor Value
   Head         3         8
   Center Torso      18         15
   Center Torso (rear)            5
   R/L Torso      13         13
   R/L Torso (rear)            4
   R/L Arm         9         12
   R/L Leg         13         13

Weapons and Ammo      Location   Critical   Tonnage
   Improved Jump Jet   LL      2      1
   2 Improved Jump Jets   RT      4      2
   5 Bomb Bays      RT      5      5
   Light PPC      LA      2      3
   4 Improved Jump Jets   LT      8      4
   Improved Jump Jet   RL      2      1
   Light PPC      RA      2      3


basic idea was that if a LAM can't match the performance of a fighter or mech straight up, exploit technologies to let it avoid a straight up fight. light but long range weapons so that it does not need to get close to a target. bomb bay so it can carry additional fuel for fighter operation or additional weapons for strike missions. (i added reference to ECM, active probe, and recon camera pods on the principle that those exist IRL and it shouldn't be hard to mount such systems into an external pod the way TAG was. i see the ECM and active probe taking up 2 bomb slots each and having stats equal to the mech mounted versions. Recon Camera should take up one bomb slot. this would allow the LAM a limited "Omnimech" type capability to customize its capabilities to a mission. and no reason that Aerospace and conventional fighters couldn't carry such pods as well) and high mobility, in this case IJJ's to let it get an 8/12 thrust profile or a 5/8/8 ground movement.

in order to fit those though i had to use less armor, composite structure, and a small cockpit. in theory i could have avoided the small cockpit but then i'd have had to either cut the armor down by another ton or use only 4 tons of bomb bay, which would have precluded the mounting of a fighter carried Arrow-IV missile.

note that i intentionally used IS technology for this.. i could probably have eked out a lot more if i used clan weaponry but that ran up against the issue that if you need clan technology to make something work, the idea doesn't actually work.
 
also i know that the two companies aren't traditionally lyran based, but i'm imagining that they've expanded to include lyran based branches after Trillian's reforms and expanded those after the end of the Tausennigan war, since the Lyrans are one of the most stable economies out there and a great market.
« Last Edit: 24 May 2020, 16:44:00 by glitterboy2098 »

Giovanni Blasini

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Re: Ngoverse/"The Administrator" setting: A bad idea given form.
« Reply #10 on: 24 May 2020, 17:01:30 »
Non-Clan weaponry for these, I assume, correct?
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kindalas

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Re: Ngoverse/"The Administrator" setting: A bad idea given form.
« Reply #11 on: 24 May 2020, 17:18:37 »
Non-Clan weaponry for these, I assume, correct?

It is supposed to be a bad idea. So being dependent on Sea Fox altruism/greed fits.

Daryk

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Re: Ngoverse/"The Administrator" setting: A bad idea given form.
« Reply #12 on: 24 May 2020, 18:56:54 »
Using clan electronics would add more lasers to the Huginn at least...

Giovanni Blasini

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  • And I think it's gonna be a long, long time...
Re: Ngoverse/"The Administrator" setting: A bad idea given form.
« Reply #13 on: 24 May 2020, 21:00:18 »
OK, posted mine in the BattleMechs board thread, since they're still basically 'Mechs, and that thread looked lonely:

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=69516.msg1613218#msg1613218
"Does anyone know where the love of God goes / When the waves turn the minutes to hours?"
-- Gordon Lightfoot, "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald"

 

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