Is the Alpha Strike version of the Kalki really meant to have unlimited ammo?

[Old19K]

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4416/kalki-cruise-missile-launcher

The Kalki (and SturmFeur "Kalki") are single shot Cruise Missile/ 50 experimental units in Battletech. In the Alpha Strike format though, due to ammo not being a thing, rules as written they can fire every turn without limit.

My question is, is this intended?

In my mind, they should be one-shot weapons and given that designation in a similar way that a one-shot TSEMP or bomb would be.

[Old19K]

A moderator moved this from the rules thread to here, so I guess I wasn't making my point clear.

I think single shot weapons, specifically Cruise Missiles, should not use the standard conversion rules when converting from Classic to Alpha Strike.

I was hoping Nckestral would see this post and agree that the artillery rules should be modified for cruise missiles carriers to work the same as the bomb rules, i.e. artcm-5 (1)

[nckestrel]

A moderator moved this from the rules thread to here, so I guess I wasn't making my point clear.

I think single shot weapons, specifically Cruise Missiles, should not use the standard conversion rules when converting from Classic to Alpha Strike.

I was hoping Nckestral would see this post and agree that the artillery rules should be modified for cruise missiles carriers to work the same as the bomb rules, i.e. artcm-5 (1)

The rules forum is for asking what the rules are, not making requests for the rules to be changed.  If you want to discuss your opinion of the rules, the whole rest of the forums exist.

As for the rules are, you seem to understand them correctly.  There is no such thing as one-shot artillery (for units, not counting battlefield support artillery) in Alpha Strike.

[Lanceman]

A moderator moved this from the rules thread to here, so I guess I wasn't making my point clear.

I think single shot weapons, specifically Cruise Missiles, should not use the standard conversion rules when converting from Classic to Alpha Strike.

I was hoping Nckestral would see this post and agree that the artillery rules should be modified for cruise missiles carriers to work the same as the bomb rules, i.e. artcm-5 (1)

This only the case for the Khalki and not other cruise missile carrying unit such as the Polaris, which carries multiple rounds. This is just an instance of the abstraction of AS buoying this unit in particular.

[MarauderD]

I was hoping Nckestral would see this post and agree that the artillery rules should be modified for cruise missiles carriers to work the same as the bomb rules, i.e. artcm-5 (1)

Lanceman beat me to the punch:  Alpha Strike is a game of abstraction.  This is how this particular unit abstracts out under the conversion rules. 

[Old19K]

Lanceman beat me to the punch:  Alpha Strike is a game of abstraction.  This is how this particular unit abstracts out under the conversion rules.

Yeah, I got it. That's easy to say for any problem unit. My point is, there is a rule for units carrying bombs that limit how many times they can be used. That could have easily been "abstracted" into a bump up in the short damage profile, but instead (and rightly so) a specific rule was created for them. I'm saying Cruise Missiles are different enough from other forms of artillery that they should have their own rules or be limited to off-board support.

[glitterboy2098]

turn length is fairly abstract in alpha strike, so it wouldn't be hard to imagine that the vehicle has a dedicated reloading team sticking new cruise missiles into place. especially if you are using it as offboard artillery, as you really should be.

[Old19K]

In Classic you have to have a dedicated ammunition hauler to reload it, and even then reloading takes 6 turns if I remember correctly. Meanwhile, in Alpha Strike, this single vehicle magically reconstitutes a missile with an ammo weight of 80 tons and just chucks one every round.

I'm all for abstraction until it reaches levels of absurdity that break my ability to suspend disbelief.

[Weirdo]

Count your blessings. At least the unit you're interested in is helped by the abstraction, as opposed to crippled.

[nckestrel]

In Classic you have to have a dedicated ammunition hauler to reload it, and even then reloading takes 6 turns if I remember correctly. Meanwhile, in Alpha Strike, this single vehicle magically reconstitutes a missile with an ammo weight of 80 tons and just chucks one every round.

I'm all for abstraction until it reaches levels of absurdity that break my ability to suspend disbelief.

You shouldn't. It's not about abstraction, its about rules coverage.  There's no rule for one-shot cruise missiles.  Cruise missiles are very rare, one shot weapons are very rare.  One shot cruise missiles are just this one unit?  Alpha Strike doesn't have rules for it.  Not saying the existing rules cover it and you should accept it, I'm saying there's no rules in AS for one shot cruise missiles.

[Pat Payne]

Also, there's "Rule Zero". Play the game the way you want to play it as long as whomever you're playing against is amenable. If you want it to be one-shot, ain't no rule saying you have to fire it more than once a game...

[Old19K]

My personal heartburn with this particular vehicle is that the organised play at my FLGS is run by a person that thinks it's ok spring this vehicle on new players. This person sets the rules for the evening play, and it's typically limited to a specific era with no SPA's and that's it. Unique and or experimental units are fair game. It's fine to say you can refuse to play against opponents that bring garbage like this to a casual game. Those would be Battletech players can always return to 40k.

[MarauderD]

My personal heartburn with this particular vehicle is that the organised play at my FLGS is run by a person that thinks it's ok spring this vehicle on new players. This person sets the rules for the evening play, and it's typically limited to a specific era with no SPA's and that's it.

Wow, talk about a way to turn people off of Alpha Strike.  There are people like that in every hobby, I've just had OUTSTANDING luck with meeting people who are both chill and interested in everyone having a good time. 

Winning < everyone having fun and getting more people into the hobby. 

[Inxentas]

I'm all for abstraction until it reaches levels of absurdity that break my ability to suspend disbelief.

If you know something well, there is far more disbelief to be suspended. If you had not pointed it out, I would have never known the weight of that ammunition and wouldn't have thought too hard about how ammo has actual tonnage in CBT. So thanks a lot for ruining my immersion I guess!  My King Crab will never be the same. 

[DevianID]

I thought there was a rule that, when converting things into alpha strike, if you have less then 10 shots of ammo you do shot% damage.  So like, the LRM carrier with 8 shots only does 80% damage for its listed LRM salvo of 36 base damage.  So wouldnt the correct alpha strike stat for a 1 shot attack be 10% of its listed damage?  So a cruise missile 50 Kalki with 1 shot should be .5, rounded to 1, artillery damage no?

Or, when they put stats for the Kalki did they not include the ammo conversion rule?

[nckestrel]

I thought there was a rule that, when converting things into alpha strike, if you have less then 10 shots of ammo you do shot% damage.  So like, the LRM carrier with 8 shots only does 80% damage for its listed LRM salvo of 36 base damage.  So wouldnt the correct alpha strike stat for a 1 shot attack be 10% of its listed damage?  So a cruise missile 50 Kalki with 1 shot should be .5, rounded to 1, artillery damage no?

Or, when they put stats for the Kalki did they not include the ammo conversion rule?

Artillery doesn't have a damage value for the unit.  It's a straight rule that if you have Arrow IV, it does 2.  So the CPLT with Arrow IV and only 5 shots still does 2 damage, becuase it's just ART-AIS for the special.  the # (if any) is just how many arrow iv launchers you have.
It's one of those rules where conversion is applied as a rule, not on an individual basis, and it doesn't cover the concept of one-shot cruise missile launchers.  Cruise missiles are pretty niche to begin with, and one shot cruise missile launchers are unique (?).

[psionics313]

This only the case for the Khalki and not other cruise missile carrying unit such as the Polaris, which carries multiple rounds. This is just an instance of the abstraction of AS buoying this unit in particular.

This is why "Unpopular opinion disclaimer" alpha strike to me is the gateway gameset. While I haven't transitioned to full classic rules (My group is currently enjoying Death from Above Wargaming's "overide" system which blends alpha strike and classic together) alpha strike is clearly not as fleshed out as other rulesets. I love alpha strike dearly and still enjoy it. but there are inconsistencies like this that, with a storied IP and game such as battletech with a ruleset soooo ironed out, I can't view alpha anymore as an official ruleset.