Right off the bat I have a question about movement, well maybe two questions, and a side concern.
Name Unit MV ARM S M L PV ExperienceAs opposed to something like (as a rough example_:
Mech Regiment, 5th Syrtis Fusiliers RCT 5th Syrtis 4 399 97 97 36 1102 Regular
Name Unit MV ARM S M L PV Experience
Mech Regiment, 5th Syrtis Fusiliers RCT 5th Syrtis 4 40 10 10 4 110 Regular
For those of your playtesting with the sample forces/scenarios, I'd like you to keep something in mind (or even try out if you'd like). What difference in gameplay do your feel there is if the main stats (Arm, S/M/L, maybe even PV) were an order of magnitude less. That is roughly 1/10 (rounded normally) what they are now. For example, here's the first lisinting in the Sarna scenario:
As opposed to something like (as a rough example_:
For the Clans shouldn't the basic unit be the Cluster since that is their equivalent of a Battalion?What are you referencing?
What are you referencing?
The Combat Factors table has Short Range as +0, Medium Range as -2 and Long Range as -4. The example then has Short Range as +4, Medium Range as +2 and Long Range as +0. Should we use the example modifiers or the table modifiers for range?
For the Clans shouldn't the basic unit be the Cluster since that is their equivalent of a Battalion?
isorla?
when is the bidding phase?
how do rearguard units and higiera work?
Since ISW is suppose to be in an even larger scale, and conquering planets suppose to be resolved simply: can we expect ISW to use an even more simplified veriation of the ACS?
Will there be rules for trying to capture warships and space stations in tact with marines? And I still wanna know how anti-mech trained infantry factor in this system. How about minefields and other "traps"?
Question 1
When a unit returns from recon turn, where does it go?
Does it teleport into any hex it wishes?
Question 2
All clan unit lists in Scenario examples list Clusters, where the ACS rules prefer Trinaries.
ComStar Divisions are broken down into Level III, but Clusters are not.
One cluster could theoretically meet with grouping penalties. Two clusters in the same hex always will if Trinaries are the maximum sized Combat Element.
Question 3
Combat element has horrible description, confusing Unit with Battleforce Unit.
Needs a clear hierarchy to explain. Or diagram
Question 4
Formation is not really explained or defined clearly enough, and leads to difficulty setting up the game.
This is further complicated when reading the example on pp 5
We struggle to identify what an individual chit on the board represents? A combat element, a combat formation or a combat command?
Question 5
How do you build the above and this is complicated further by reinforcement and transferring of units with leadership. Does the LRP degrade as the game progresses as high leadership units are destroyed?
Question 5
Aero dropped at zenith, can it move inwards?
Question 6
Do we maintain merged chits (ie AS in Dropships and Warships, and Dropships on Warships) until inner system or immediately upon arrival at Jump point (because Warships cannot thurst with DS attached)...
Question 7
1- When do fighter formations separate from their transport/carrier formations?
2- Can fighters exist in the Peripehral zone or outer ring?
3- If a Fighter has move of 6+ can it reach the middle ring from the peripheral ring? Or are fighters MV halved to return to their carriers?
Comment 1
There seems to be a lot of repetition between tables. Surely some of that stuff (specifically the experience modifiers and aerospace superiority modifiers) can be pulled out into their own tables, and the base TNs adjusted to make some modifiers (specifically the Fatigue entries) simpler.
Comment 2ACS rules are by their nature, Abstract. When working at the scale where a single game piece on the map represents hundreds of BattleMechs, Tanks or thousands of infantry you have to surrender some detail. Yes, a regiment of Panthers would not be as effective as a regiment of Chargers (there’s an image). At the ACS level thought the default is to use Generic Combat Units as the building blocks, a Tech C Light Regiment has a move of 7 and a Tech C Assault has a move of 4.
The Scouting Modifiers table seems to say that a Panther is a better scout than a Cicada, or a Charger, and that a Ferret is worse than a Locust. That can't be right. There also does not seem to be any provision for advanced sensors (Irian EAR is Tech Level D and likely better than typical Clan Omni sensors), jamming (might aid evasion as well, but probably not concealment), or a sympathetic populace (would probably also modify morale).
Comment 3Valid, however we would then need to triple all the modifiers as well and that starts to get cumbersome just to make figuring out a target number easier. Am I missing something?
Scouting points are currently assigned, then multiplied by 3 before being spent. Instead: assign them in multiples of 3 to start with. Then the player won't have to multiply them.
Comment 4We’re dealing at the abstraction level again. The points you invest in Scout Hunting come from your total scout pool which can be Hi-Scouts, Spiders, Pegasus hovertanks. The abstraction also covers such things as said Hi-Scout finding an enemy scout force and temporarily tasking a company from one of the Combat Formations to wipe it out.
Scout Hunting damage currently has nothing to do with the hunters' actual firepower. I don't want Hi-Scout Drone Carriers to be effective scout hunters. The damage calculation should be brought more in line with standard combat damage.
Question 8There are currently no “Evasion” rules in ACS. Can you elaborate on what you mean?
Is evasion supposed to be unaffected by scouting? Should scouts have a "pursuit" option?
Question 9You assign Formations (Units, Commands) to Scouting at the beginning of each Combat Turn (An ISW Sub-Turn). See Question 1 above.
When in the turn does a player assign recon points to scouting, scout hunting and scout shielding? Is it the same time formations are assigned to combat and scouting (in which case, these are effectively formation types)? I assume that formations assigned to scouting still have a location on the ground map, even though they're exempt from normal combat.
Comment 5
It would be awfully helpful if the chapter followed the turn outline given under the "Combat" heading.
Question 10
The "Aerospace Force" ratio on the first three combat tables seems to be the ratio of your aerospace assets to the enemy's aerospace force, but that's not specified anywhere, and it's not at all obvious how it's being calculated. Blips? Pilot headcount? Firepower? Target hex only or do adjacent spaces count?
Comment 6Nice catch. That will probably work well.
The "Scattered beyond recovery" entry on the Combat Drops table seems like it should be equivalent to the "Disintegrated" entry on the Morale table, but there's no note to that effect.
Comment 7Abstract combat. The Combat turn is seven days long. Let us know how this plays out though. It’s really a challenge to figure out “movement” and range at this abstraction scale.
Each player appears to be making separate combat rolls, such that one formation can be fighting at short range while the opposing formation fights at long range. That's weird. Not necessarily bad, just... weird.
Comment 8Yes, something for us to look at.
I'm assuming that the loyalty ratings apply to how closely the Formation follows its immediate Leaders' orders, rather than having anything at all to do with the Field Manual loyalty ratings. Otherwise it wouldn't make sense to put it on the Combat Factors table.
Comment 9
All elements in a formation fight at the same range, with the same tactic and with the same combat roll. So why not sum their damage together *before* applying the damage output modifier.
Comment 10
The damage inflicted modifier % is assigned in multiples of 10%, then divided by 4 during calculations. Again: assign in multiples of 2.5% (or multiply hit points by 4) to start with. Then the player won't have to divide later.
Question 11We definitely need to clean this up.
I tripped on the paragraph describing flanking and rear attacks: I didn't realize they gave different bonuses at first (separating it into two paragraphs would help); and (since the TN modifiers aren't mentioned in the text) it's not clear that TN modifiers are supposed to exist. Does flanking preclude a rear attack, or vice versa? Does picking one of these two preclude using "offensive" and "defensive" tactics? Can a player assign all Elements in that hex to a "flank" or "rear" attack, with none in "front?" (The TN penalty might be high enough to allow that. If not, then what proportion can be?) Why can't a fast, but numerically inferior force assign some Elements to a flank or rear attack? Hexes are huge relative to Formation size--why would it be so risky (the stacking/crowding penalty plus the flank/backstab penalty) to envelop an enemy you severely outnumber? Wouldn't outnumbering the enemy make envelopments easier?
Question 12I think there may be confusion on what “Offensive” and “Defensive”. It’s about how aggressive or defensive you are. An offensive player has a chance to do more damage but at the potential cost of more damage to them. A defensive player has a chance to reduce the damage they take, but at the potential cost of reducing their return fire.
Combat:Combat Resolution seems to imply that you can't combine offensive and defensive tactics. But what about things like blowing a dam, or setting a forest on fire to catch the enemy as they stumble out crippled and half-blind? That's both offensive and defensive (and less likely to work as your enemy's Tech Level rises, and risks permanent damage to the region).
Question 13
Hiding in forests and badlands is a staple of BT fiction. I assume that's meant to be abstracted within the evasion & concealment rolls, but not all terrain is equal, and usually one part of a planet is reported as the most difficult to search. Exceptionally protective forests, badlands, (windstorms) etc could probably be accounted as "natural" fortifications.
Question 14These are all part of ISW rules. They are not required for ACS game play.
Combat:Ground Combat:Formation Setup and Combat:Ground Combat:Map Setup:Attack of Opportunity mention "combat orders," but "combat orders" aren't described within these rules. (Also, Resolution:Fatigue mentions "resting," and it's not clear what distinguishes "resting" from "not moving and not attacking.")
Question 15
The Setup:Leadership Rating Pool:Experience Modifier Table lists a number of formations per experience level, and the Combat:Ground Combat:Hidden Formations says each Regiment costs .5 points to hide. It's not clear what portion of a "formation" this "regiment" is meant to be. Hidden Formations is also the only place to mention that troop movements are limited by the Leadership Pool.
Question 16
Combat:Ground Combat:Adjusting Formations notes that Formation Adjustment costs double during Planetary Approach, but it never says a cost of *what*.
Question 16PAM Movement is broken. It was designed for a three zone Radar Map, not the four zone Capital Radar Map.
I don't understand how to move on the Planetary Approach Map. [This is slightly different from Atlas3060's comment, though it probably has the same answer.] Movement out to, in from, and within: the outer ring costs 3MP? the middle ring costs 2MP? the inner ring costs 1.5MP? What about the peripheral ring? Shouldn't the Combat:Planetary Approach Map:Long/Short Jump Point Transit option only affect the outer and peripheral rings? (This should really be back in Combat:Planetary Approach, and the Capital Radar examples really shouldn't be spread out alongside the Ground Combat stuff.)[
Question 16Yes- See question 4. Combat Commands are normally Regiment in size. Formations can be multiple regiments in size.
The terms "Combat Command" and "Formation" appear to function equivalently within the rules. It looks like the editor was in the process of converting from one term to the other?
Comment 11Good comments, we’re working on this.
All discussion of force scale (Setup:Determine Scale, Setup:Increasing the Base Command Scale, Combat:Ground Combat:Increased Base Command Scale, and Combat:Ground Combat:Formation Setup) should be rolled into Terminology:Combat Element. All other rules should refer only to "Combat Elements" (or to "Formations" of 1 to 18 Elements), without mention of scale or factional organization.
Comment 12Thanks, we’ll look at that.
Combat:Ground Combat:Formation Setup should probably be rolled into Setup:Determine Forces.
Question 17I’ll be honest. I’m not sure what we were thinking (and I wrote that). Let me look into this. For now flip the modifiers.
For the Leadership table, the more skilled a command is, the lower their leadership rating is. However, a nation with superior military doctrine increases the rating, while inferior military doctrine reduces the rating. Shouldn't it be the other way around?
Question 18We’re in mid process of changing the term. LRP and LR are the same thing.
Edit: Also, there is the Leadership Rating Pool (LRP) and Leadership Rating (LR) are these different? I just noticed that in the Leadership Rating Pool section it says "Leadership Rating (LRP)" but after that I primarily see LR used with only one instance of the abbreviation of LRP. (Sorry, I do too much tech writing)
Even without playing it but just looking at it I have a complaint, the sample PCM is too small, it's only 7 hexes across. A good part of BT has always been maneuver warfare so such a small map it not very useful
Suggestion 1:
Formations with infantry elements (CI or BA) will get bonuses for flanking/rear against formations without such support.
When setting up a game with Cambo we made up chits with combat command names on them. But looking at the turn order we realise that you reform your formations every turn. how do you aim to keep track of chits when their composition changes so often.
We're playing Luzurne and the IS side has a ton of commands shuffled between formations, most of which reside inside the Transport Sqn, but still give the Sqn a better LR than the Sovetskii Soyuz.
incidentally, what makes up the transport Sqn, are they a bunch Invaders with dropships? 20 Overlords can't hang off a warship. Can the transport Sqn make an in system jump and evade the CSJ DD/FF by approaching from below the planet? what are the rolls for in system jumps?
in the above answers you said aerospace can not move from their peripheral or outer ring location, but also said they can move in-system.
If the Warships organic aerospace launch organically at the end (or is it beginning) of turn one and become their own formation, can they follow the warship as it moves one space or do they have to be in the same formation to move?
non combatant elements probably shouldn't have S/M/L stats then. it causes confusion.
can transport jumpships execute in-system jumps?
why is all damage divided by 4?
Can you elaborate on your reasoning?Well, since infantry forces are composed of a significantly larger number of individuals, it's easier for them to spread around for encirclement.
Transport Squadrons are JumpShips and Carrier DropShips. They are non-combatants. They come from ISW rules where all transport is abstracted out to Transport Points. Only WarShips and Assault DropShips are purchasable combat units.
Hmm... see this is what happens when more than one writer works on rules. I asked AK to gin up the units for the scenarios and then didn't really look at them. So forget some of what I said. We will be figuring out how to take abstract transport and give it something to do in ACS (mostly moving targets).
one company (12 Elements) of Infantry.
I haven't read through the ACS yet, but assuming an Element is an Infantry platoon, 12 such elements would be a reinforced battalion under standard organization, not merely a company. Now if an Element is just a squad, then yes, that'd be a company.
I haven't read through the ACS yet, but assuming an Element is an Infantry platoon, 12 such elements would be a reinforced battalion under standard organization, not merely a company. Now if an Element is just a squad, then yes, that'd be a company.
ok my roommate and i tried the Luzerene scenario and found some problems
1.the PCM is to small (he broke his units down to to 2 battalion each to spread the defenders)
2. transports need a carrying cap and should be able to hold there own vs fighter wings (even one Union is hard for a fighter sq to take down)
3. the example for the FWLS Raven show it getting the mvdif penalty vs aero wings yet the rules say cap or scap units dont get mvdif vs aero wings
4.does damage reduction happen in the turn it is damaged or in following turns
5. on the combat results chart the LR mods dont match the rules (/ by 3 rd)example. aerospace wing 6/3=2, 1st def wing 4/3=1 same for 5th lyran aero wing
6.most of the entries on the combat example have errors that make it hard to figure out combat
example= 5th lyran areo wing delivered=54 mod=1.6 final=22 p.s. 12x1.6 is not 22 its 19.2 so how was this figured out or is it an error ?Quote
CheckingQuotebesides that love the Abstract Combat System so far keep up the good work!! O0
Thank you!
ok my roommate and i tried the Luzerene scenario and found some problems
Oh and any thought to the stats? Would they work better divided by 10?yes ;)
1.They are directly based on AlphaStrike stats. I can tell you from traditional aerospace play even a squadron or Sparrowhawks can pretty much own a Union. We will look into this. It is one of the age old issues, the rules for aerospace and the fiction for planetary landings don't match.
2.Page references please
3.As with all BattleTech, damage is applied immediately.
Comment 1
Great feedback. We’ll look at that. Saving page count would be great.
Comment 2Quote from: skiltaoThe Scouting Modifiers table seems to say that a Panther is a better scout than a Cicada, or a Charger, and that a Ferret is worse than a Locust. That can't be right. There also does not seem to be any provision for advanced sensors (Irian EAR is Tech Level D and likely better than typical Clan Omni sensors), jamming (might aid evasion as well, but probably not concealment), or a sympathetic populace (would probably also modify morale).
ACS rules are by their nature, Abstract. When working at the scale where a single game piece on the map represents hundreds of BattleMechs, Tanks or thousands of infantry you have to surrender some detail. Yes, a regiment of Panthers would not be as effective as a regiment of Chargers (there’s an image). At the ACS level thought the default is to use Generic Combat Units as the building blocks, a Tech C Light Regiment has a move of 7 and a Tech C Assault has a move of 4.
Likewise sensors end up being abstracted out at this level. A single game hex can be 2000 kilometers or more. A sensor pod with a range of 300 meters tends to be abstracted out at this level.
Comment 3Quote from: skiltaoScouting points are currently assigned, then multiplied by 3 before being spent. Instead: assign them in multiples of 3 to start with. Then the player won't have to multiply them.
Valid, however we would then need to triple all the modifiers as well and that starts to get cumbersome just to make figuring out a target number easier. Am I missing something?
Comment 4Quote from: skiltaoScout Hunting damage currently has nothing to do with the hunters' actual firepower. I don't want Hi-Scout Drone Carriers to be effective scout hunters. The damage calculation should be brought more in line with standard combat damage.We’re dealing at the abstraction level again. The points you invest in Scout Hunting come from your total scout pool which can be Hi-Scouts, Spiders, Pegasus hovertanks. The abstraction also covers such things as said Hi-Scout finding an enemy scout force and temporarily tasking a company from one of the Combat Formations to wipe it out.
Question 8Quote from: skiltaoIs evasion supposed to be unaffected by scouting? Should scouts have a "pursuit" option?There are currently no “Evasion” rules in ACS. Can you elaborate on what you mean?
Question 9
You assign Formations (Units, Commands) to Scouting at the beginning of each Combat Turn (An ISW Sub-Turn).
(question 9 cont'd)Quote from: skiltaoI assume that formations assigned to scouting still have a location on the ground map, even though they're exempt from normal combat.
See Question 1 above.
Comment 5
Yes- Once the rules are done and we stop moving things around, they will.
Question 10
Point Value, this has been updated.
Comment 6
Nice catch. That will probably work well.
Comment 7Quote from: skiltaoEach player appears to be making separate combat rolls, such that one formation can be fighting at short range while the opposing formation fights at long range. That's weird. Not necessarily bad, just... weird.Abstract combat. The Combat turn is seven days long.
(Comment 7 cont'd)
Let us know how this plays out though. It’s really a challenge to figure out “movement” and range at this abstraction scale.
Comment 8
Yes, something for us to look at.
Comment 9
Thanks, we’ll look at that.
Comment 10
Thanks, we’ll look at that.
Question 11
We definitely need to clean this up.
Flanking and Rear are mutually exclusive.
<snip>
All Combat is by Formation (see Question 3 for clarifications). If two formations are in the same hex, one can Formation can conduct a Flank and the other a Rear.
<snip>
(Question 11 cont'd)
Flanking and read can only be conducted using Offensive.
Fast Units Flanking/Rear- Good thoughts, we’ll look into this.
Question 12Quote from: skiltaoCombat:Combat Resolution seems to imply that you can't combine offensive and defensive tactics. But what about things like blowing a dam, or setting a forest on fire to catch the enemy as they stumble out crippled and half-blind? That's both offensive and defensive (and less likely to work as your enemy's Tech Level rises, and risks permanent damage to the region).I think there may be confusion on what “Offensive” and “Defensive”. It’s about how aggressive or defensive you are. An offensive player has a chance to do more damage but at the potential cost of more damage to them. A defensive player has a chance to reduce the damage they take, but at the potential cost of reducing their return fire.
Question 13Quote from: skiltaoHiding in forests and badlands is a staple of BT fiction. I assume that's meant to be abstracted within the evasion & concealment rolls, but not all terrain is equal, and usually one part of a planet is reported as the most difficult to search. Exceptionally protective forests, badlands, (windstorms) etc could probably be accounted as "natural" fortifications.At the abstraction level ACS is at, this would be difficult to track. The ACS Ground Map doesn’t even track water. It’s globe shaped only for visual symmetry.
Remember though that players can optionally use Turning Point Maps for more detailed game play. At that point players can agree on hexes having specific modifiers. We may explore future optional rules for this type of play, but not in IO.
Question 13
These are all part of ISW rules. They are not required for ACS game play.
Question 15
We are cleaning up Formation sizing. See question 4. A regiment would be 5 Combat Units (Battalions/Level III/ Trinary). All Combat Units in a Formation must pay the hiding cost for the Formation to be Hidden.
Question 16a (first question numbered "16")
That is also driven by the Leadership Pool
Question 16b (second question numbered "16")
PAM Movement is broken. It was designed for a three zone Radar Map, not the four zone Capital Radar Map.
Question 16c (third question numbered "16")
Yes- See question 4. Combat Commands are normally Regiment in size. Formations can be multiple regiments in size.
Comment 11
Good comments, we’re working on this.
Comment 12
Thanks, we’ll look at that.
I have one question Where are the LAMS Rules I been waiting for years for them and I thought this was the book that they was going to be Publish in?
This is only one small section of IO. There has been no change in plans for the LAM rules that I have heard (ie. they will be in IO, presumably the Alternate Eras section).
3.but that could change the effect of an attack lower the DR ? seems like this would cause math headaches for the players.
Cool.
In the Order of Battle listing for Luzerne shouldn't the WarShips have a notation that their damage is Capital scale? It doesn't really matter to the rules per se but it could have an effect on any future scenarios published using these rules involving WarShips.
As NCKestrel said, the Capital-scale vs Standard-scale damge (and armor) is already accounted for in the conversion process.
When referring to the Aerospace combat rules on page 15, it is importent to know if the ship is CAP/SCAP
I'm reading through the pdf a couple of times, but I couldn't find the answer.
Does the winner of Initiative go last when deploying formations on the PCM?
I read the PAM rules, but was unaware if this goes the same for ground forces.
CAP and SCAP get free shots. so is say yes it is important.
Oh and any thought to the stats? Would they work better divided by 10?
Not sure if this is possible but a list of unit breakdowns would be nice to setup our own battles.
this would allow us to test the system on a large scale and give more enlighten feedback. (exp=heavy Mech company,light mech company etc.)
O0
Ask and you shall receive. I have attached the ISW Generic Combat Element table to the first post. It shows the stats for each type of game unit at the Company/Star (Combat Team) level.you now my 2nd fav person in the world (grandma first lol)
you now my 2nd fav person in the world (grandma first lol)
and the game works better on the turning point maps so far but if you needed it run on a 7 hex map i can try that.
1.so is it b or averaged
B
2.
Added together. Movement is the only thing that's averaged.
so is it b or averaged
Is there any chance of seeing AAR's from play tests? I would love to see how these scenarios play play out within the system.
Blacknova is one of our writers on this project. What he says, we want to see AAR reports please.I'll be working on Sarna soon.
Joel
I'll be working on Sarna soon.
I'll post my findings in the AA part of the forum later.
Screaming Eagles | Aerospace Wing | Regular | MV 6 |
Ground Support Wing | 5th Syrtis Fusiliers | Regular | MV 7 |
Screaming Eagles | 'Mech Regiment | Regular | MV 6 |
5th McCarron's Armored Cavalry Regiment | 5th MAC | Veteran | MV 4 |
Sarna Planetary Militia #1 | Motor | Green | MV 4 |
Sarna Planetary Militia #2 | Motor | Green | MV 4 |
Sarna Planetary Militia #3 | Motor | Green | MV 4 |
One thing that's missing seems to be a way for you to Screen your more imported units in a battlegroup (command elements,artillery,etc.)
my suggestion would be a new defensive action
1.Screen (defensive)=May Assign on a one for one bases one Battalion to screen another which must be attacked before the Screened unit.
or
2.Screening unit takes 50% of all damage assigned to the screened unit.
Commands with this order protect other forces (with combat if needed). This order safeguards other combat commands from damage while repairing, resting or resupplying, so long as the command being protected makes up no more than 30% (round up) of a total force on a planet. If this condition is met (which may require more than one command on planet to be using the Shield order), the player does not need place the shielded force on the Planetary Combat Map when using the Abstract Combat System (see p. XX).
If at the start of a sub-turn, the shielded force becomes equal to 50% or more of the allied force on the world, the player must either place the unit on the Planetary Combat Map in the next Sub-Turn, Surrender, Withdrawal or Go to Ground.
A Combat Command that uses the Shield command must spend 2x its Combat Supply Point Requirement and generate 1 Fatigue even if no combat is seen and 2 Fatigue if engaged in combat
Shield costs zero order points. It must be combined with either the Attack or Defend order.
also Troop Transport Squadrons units need a carry limit
to avoid the whole invasion for being destroyed by one lucky shot.
In the Sarna Campaign how do the reinforcements arrive on the board
1. from orbit landing on round 4
2. just appear on the battlefield on round 4
Still working on it, found some hiccups/questions that are driving me crazy.
Now for all purposes of Leadership, TF Wind is Regular and DF Rebels are Vets right?
Which brings up my second question: What benefits are there to a Long or Medium ranged attack over the short one?
Though shouldn't that be reversed if this is going to alter the roll and not the TN?
Now the "Force Experience is" part, is that for the target?
Assuming anyone can hit with those mods, I spread around the damages to individual elements within those forces right?
Another concern I had was how Aeros just aren't maneuverable in planetary atmo.
They lose half their MP and each hex traveled is 2 MP cost.
Plus do they have to be within a range for their "home base" hex?
I have been attempting to play the "Luzerene" historical campaign with my partner, but need some clarification to the rules.
I'm sorry, I can't read all the fon't color changes. Can you please repost in normal text and I'll go through it.
Thanks,
Joel BC
Sorry to drive you crazy. Honestly it's not part of some secret plot.I know, its all part of the playtest experience.
Other than getting a -4 to your Combat Roll for Short range?
And just assumed to use the Table Mods.The Combat Factors table has Short Range as +0, Medium Range as -2 and Long Range as -4. The example then has Short Range as +4, Medium Range as +2 and Long Range as +0. Should we use the example modifiers or the table modifiers for range?The Table Modifiers. The Base Target Number is 2, so it's an easy target number. The modifiers lower your final 2D6 roll.
Yes- Remember the target number is only a 2.Well yes and also the LR divided by 3, round down and added to Base TN.
A game turn is seven days long. Unlike ground forces, aerospace have to go back and land after every mission. So MP is divided by 2 to represent flying from its home base and back.Fair enough, but another question I have did pop up.
Ignore the above report #P
we where doing damage wrong :'(
What happens when enemy units reach the "home base" hex, assuming we aren't using Dropships and the like?
My apologies. :)
As requested, and including my other post into this reply as question 5 ) .
1)I do not understand how to distribute damage to combat elements in a formation "randomly":
2) By "randomly" assigning to the combat elements, who will be the assigner of the damage: The dealer of the damage, or the receiver of the damage?
3) For the damage formula, I do not understand the "divided by 4" part of the calculation for a combat element. Does this mean that if the element has the following stats.... (divided by 10):
4)Using the "Luzerene" historical campaign, resolving combat based on the following opposing formations, is it possible to provide an example of how the damage distribution would work as envisioned by the rules? For this case, range is "Medium" and "No" Tactics are used by either formations.
5) For Transport/Dropship Formations that are carrying ground unit Formations (Mechs, Supportive units, etc), how do we handle the damage inflicted to those Transport/Dropship Formations and their valuable cargo?
Now for the questions/suggestions
1.dividing damage by 4 seems to make Offensive tactics useless for fighters and inf
2.with the bigger map the 1/2 MV for fighters limits there usefulness
also with 2 MV per hex makes having a 5 MV wasteful (except in combat)
3.the scouting rule seem to involved for this level of play (ie they slow the game)
4.Aerospace fighters boil down to he how has the most ARM wins, as stated before with the divide by 4 rule the most they ever due is 1 Damage.
mind you im using the divide ARM/S/M/L by 10
THE DEVELOPER ASKS
Time for some questions back to all of you.
1- 7 hex Map, better?
2- Terrain- The goal is a fast game, which is why we don't have terrain. Is leaving the option to use Turning Point maps sufficient?
3- Value Scales, dividing all the stats by 10, how is this working for folks?
4- General game flow? We have several technical issues to work out, that's clear. How does the game feel though? Are we on the right track or is this just broken?
Thanks, more soon.
Joel BC
ISW Lead Developer
THE DEVELOPER ASKS
Time for some questions back to all of you.
1- 7 hex Map, better?
2- Terrain- The goal is a fast game, which is why we don't have terrain. Is leaving the option to use Turning Point maps sufficient?
3- Value Scales, dividing all the stats by 10, how is this working for folks?
4- General game flow? We have several technical issues to work out, that's clear. How does the game feel though? Are we on the right track or is this just broken?
Thanks, more soon.
Joel BC
ISW Lead Developer
We'll work on this. In general BattleTech does not have a hard rules for randomly choosing something. Under current rules a Formation can contain up to 15 Combat Units (Battalions) so determining which is damaged is left up to you.
Here is a suggestions, let us know how it works. Roll 1D6 two times. The first roll determines if you damaged Combat Unit 1-5 (1-2 on D6), Combat Unit 6-10 (3-4 on D6) or Combat Unit 11-15. The second roll determines which Combat Unit in that group is damaged (reroll a 6).
The attacker. This is in line with Total Warfare where the attacker rolls location.
Yes- we will be changing how damage is calculated. For now though the damage formula is <<< S/M/L * Damage Modifier / 4.
So a unit that does 50 damage at short range with a 140% damage mod would do 18 pts of ARM damage (50*1.4 / 4 = 17.5).
In the next update of the rules Combat Units (Battalions, Level III, Trianry) will become the building block for all Formations. Once that is the case, use the suggestion I have above.
With the Luzerne example, just roll 1D6 and reroll anytime you roll 6.
We're going to leave this at a nice abstract level. As long as the transport is alive, the cargo is. Transport dies, so does all the cargo.
We are in the process of updating ISW (the basis for Transport Units) so that it is very clear what unit is in what Transport Unit. For now change the Transport Squadron ARM to 5 and give the SLDF 5 of them. Divide the combat forces evenly.
THE DEVELOPER ASKSOh my dice YES.
Time for some questions back to all of you.
1- 7 hex Map, better?
2- Terrain- The goal is a fast game, which is why we don't have terrain. Is leaving the option to use Turning Point maps sufficient?I don't want terrain in this game mode's "basic" version.
3- Value Scales, dividing all the stats by 10, how is this working for folks?I didn't do that, but I assume it would make the game run faster.
4- General game flow? We have several technical issues to work out, that's clear. How does the game feel though? Are we on the right track or is this just broken?Aside from the wonky issues, sorry I threw a Tac Nuke at space fights with questions ;), the premise is workable.
Thanks, more soon.
Joel BC
ISW Lead Developer
Short answer is if the ASF can't get back up to space, then they are lost. Probably need to address supply losses as well.Which would mean if they were in a Formation with a Mech Regiment, or any non aero, then the ASF element in question would be considered "destroyed" regardless of how much ARM they still have?
perhaps you could have some terrain favor some range and/or offensive/defensive.
should fighting on a cold or hot world have any effect? high/low gravity? trying to think of things that affect the map at this scale.
You can get Scouting Points even if you don't assign Formations to Recon. You receive 1 Scouting Point for each Combat Formation (and in the next update, Aerospace Formations). So even if you assign nothing to Recon Formations, you still get scouting points.Well I understood that I get points for just having Combat Formations as well.
Players can spend scoutingSo where do those scout hunting points go against a force with no scout formations?
points on scout hunting.
Each scouting point spent on
scout hunting does 5+2d6
damage to an opponent’s recon forces during the combat
phase.
All Scouting modifiers are cumulative. If you assign three Combat Units (Battalions) of Light Mechs to a Recon Formation you get 1 Scouting Points. If you add 3 Light Tank Combat Units you get another point. If they are all Veteran you have a total of 4 Scouting Points.I think I did the numbers wrong in my head when I read this example.
Situation Modifier*
Each Combat Unit (Battalion, Level III, Trinary) +1
Has an MP of 6 or more +1
Each additional 2 MP over 6 +1
Combat Unit that is scouting is Veteran +1
Combat Unit that is scouting is Elite +2
Combat Unit that is scouting is Legendary or Heroic +3
Combat Unit that is scouting has A Level Technology +2
Combat Unit that is scouting has B Level Technology +1
Aerospace Combat Unit or Dedicated Aerial Recon Unit** +2
Satellite Recon +2
WarShip in orbit** +3
*- All Modifiers are cumulative, so a Veteran Unit with an MP of 8 generates 4 Scouting Points. Exception is Aerospace and MP bonuses which are mutually exclusive.
** May not participate in offensive actions. Receives a -2 to all combat roles if engaged
Scout Bonuses for Sarna- Unless clearly documented and approved by both players, assume every regiment has at least one battalion that is Light. So you could pull a Light Battalion from the 5th Syrtis and two more from the 1st and 2nd Tank regiment. Feel free to use the Field Manual for any specific mentions (I think one of the Big Mac is all heavies and assaults).So if I do pull out battalions for scouting and they take damage, do I reintegrate them for normal combat as well?
Wow, just wow...
Guys, thank you so much for the awesome feedback. I'll be totally honest with you right now. I just piled through the wall of text from Atlas3060, Issamuel and victor_shaw and I'm literally giddy with the feedback.
So many good ideas, so much great feedback. I'm going to go through this and try and give you all some feedback. I'm going to skip the quote wall though (not sure about other people, I have a hell of a time reading quote walls).
0- I'm going to have to really remind myself that Total Warfare is not our common starting point. I've been playing since 1896 so for me Alpha Strike is this new fangled thing. Bear with me as we make sure AS is our baseline for reference.
1- Aerospace Movement: Change ASF Movement to 1 MP per hex. Aero Base still required.
2- Aero Rules:
- We'll add modifiers for fighting in atmo, you're right more dangerous.
- We'll look at moving aero to be a supporting action like scouting.
- Definately look at air bases. For now anyone combat formation can set up an aerobase in their hex if they did not move that turn and they take a -2 to their combat roll.
3- Combat Resolution
- We hear you, the modifers affecting the roll and not the TN is confusing. We'll be looking at an Margin of Success type roll like is used in Abstract Aerospace combat and a few other places.
- We will be working on it being a little more interactive. While it is going to be hard to get away from "stack of formations win" (at the end of the day, 10 regiments of Mechs in one spot are hard to beat) we will see what we can do.
4- Damage resolution
- Oh my Ghu we're working on this. Not sure how we'll resolve it yet. We're thinking.
5- Transport Units
I just finished writing completely new rules for Movement in ISW. We now have Jump Transport Units and Carrier Transport Units. They will have full ISW game stats so they can be played in the game and have clear rules on how much they can carry. Soon as Alexander Knight has created the ISW stats we will publish them here.
6- Formation Rules
- We heard you! See the first post. We have attached a document with new ACS formation rules based on Combat Teams (Battalions). We've also set minimum number of CT and lowered the maximum CTs. Let us know what you think.
7- Keeping Track
- We are planning some kind of ACS record sheet to make it easy to track your formations and their modifiers. Thanks.
8- City Fighting, industrial targets.
- We've got that in process. They will leverage the existing Fortification rules. For now, if you want to have these kinds of targets, use Level 1 fortifications for Supply and Level 2 for factories. The defender gets no defense bonus, like a normal Fortification, but you can only damage the Supply Center or Factory if there are no defenders in the hex.
9- Terrain and Map size
- Please feel free to experiment with 8 and 9 hexes as well. We don't want to have a map larger than that.
- General consensus that if folks want terrain, they could use Turning Point Maps or regular maps? We want basic combat to be faster, which is why we are steering away from terrain by default.
10- SPEED!!!!
- We will shift scouting bonuses to the speed of the formations
- We will see about having Speed be a factor in Flanking and Rear attacks
11- Experience Modifiers
In our updated tables we will give a positive modifier to the higher the attacker's experience and a negative modifier for the defender's experience. For now just use the existing table and apply a -TN mod for attacker experience and a +TN Mod for Defender experience. So a Veteran Unit attacking a Green command would get a -3 for being a Vet and a -1 for the defender being Green for a net -4 to roll. Same Vet unit attacking a Legendary unit (Skye Rangers vs. Genyosha) would be -3 for being a Vet and +6 for attacking a Legendary for a net +3 to roll.
13- Faction Flavor: There are faction abilities and flaws in ISW. Some will apply to ACS. Players can also build ISW units using TW and AS conversion rules, instead of just using the Generic Combat Teams.
14- Generic Combat Units?
Has anyone used the Generic units document we posted to make their own units?
KEEP IT COMING!
Thank you all so much for your incredible support. These rules would not be a fraction of what they will be without your input. I appreciate the folks that have already played "multiple" battles. This is so cool!
6." We have attached a document with new ACS formation rules" where? ???
10. still think it should be generically build in to the units / yeah
11. not sure im following but it looks like with the current rules being better would be bad ?Quote
Here is an example:Code: [Select]<<<Begin table>>>
Experience Factor Modifier*
Command Experience is Wet Behind the Ears +3 / -3
Command Experience is Really Green +2 / -2
Command Experience is Green +1 / -1
Command Experience is Regular 0
Command Experience is Veteran -1/ +1
Command Experience is Elite -2/ +2
Command Experience is Heroic -3/ +3
Command Experience is Legendary -4/ +4
*- The number before the slash is the based on the attacker’s experience, the number of the slash is based off the defender’s experience.
<<<Begin table>>>
For example a Veteran Combat Unit targets a Wet behind the Ears command. The combined modifier would be -4 (-1 for Veteran attacker, -3 for Wet behind the Ears target). The same Veteran Combat Unit would be have a +3 if targeting a Legendary Unit.
Wow, just wow...
Guys, thank you so much for the awesome feedback. I'll be totally honest with you right now. I just piled through the wall of text from Atlas3060, Issamuel and victor_shaw and I'm literally giddy with the feedback.
0- I'm going to have to really remind myself that Total Warfare is not our common starting point....
1- Aerospace Movement: Change ASF Movement to 1 MP per hex. Aero Base still required.
2- Aero Rules:
- We'll add modifiers for fighting in atmo, you're right more dangerous.
- We'll look at moving aero to be a supporting action like scouting.
- Definately look at air bases. For now anyone combat formation can set up an aerobase in their hex if they did not move that turn and they take a -2 to their combat roll.
3- Combat Resolution
- We hear you, the modifers affecting the roll and not the TN is confusing. We'll be looking at an Margin of Success type roll like is used in Abstract Aerospace combat and a few other places.
- We will be working on it being a little more interactive. While it is going to be hard to get away from "stack of formations win" (at the end of the day, 10 regiments of Mechs in one spot are hard to beat) we will see what we can do.
4- Damage resolution
- Oh my Ghu we're working on this. Not sure how we'll resolve it yet. We're thinking.
5- Transport Units
I just finished writing completely new rules for Movement in ISW. We now have Jump Transport Units and Carrier Transport Units. They will have full ISW game stats so they can be played in the game and have clear rules on how much they can carry. Soon as Alexander Knight has created the ISW stats we will publish them here.
6- Formation Rules
- We heard you! See the first post. We have attached a document with new ACS formation rules based on Combat Teams (Battalions). We've also set minimum number of CT and lowered the maximum CTs. Let us know what you think.
7- Keeping Track
- We are planning some kind of ACS record sheet to make it easy to track your formations and their modifiers. Thanks.
8- City Fighting, industrial targets.
- We've got that in process. They will leverage the existing Fortification rules. For now, if you want to have these kinds of targets, use Level 1 fortifications for Supply and Level 2 for factories. The defender gets no defense bonus, like a normal Fortification, but you can only damage the Supply Center or Factory if there are no defenders in the hex.
9- Terrain and Map size
- Please feel free to experiment with 8 and 9 hexes as well. We don't want to have a map larger than that.
- General consensus that if folks want terrain, they could use Turning Point Maps or regular maps? We want basic combat to be faster, which is why we are steering away from terrain by default.
10- SPEED!!!!
- We will shift scouting bonuses to the speed of the formations
- We will see about having Speed be a factor in Flanking and Rear attacks
11- Experience Modifiers
In our updated tables we will give a positive modifier to the higher the attacker's experience and a negative modifier for the defender's experience. For now just use the existing table and apply a -TN mod for attacker experience and a +TN Mod for Defender experience. So a Veteran Unit attacking a Green command would get a -3 for being a Vet and a -1 for the defender being Green for a net -4 to roll. Same Vet unit attacking a Legendary unit (Skye Rangers vs. Genyosha) would be -3 for being a Vet and +6 for attacking a Legendary for a net +3 to roll.
13- Faction Flavor: There are faction abilities and flaws in ISW. Some will apply to ACS. Players can also build ISW units using TW and AS conversion rules, instead of just using the Generic Combat Teams.
14- Generic Combat Units?
Has anyone used the Generic units document we posted to make their own units?
KEEP IT COMING!
Thank you all so much for your incredible support. These rules would not be a fraction of what they will be without your input. I appreciate the folks that have already played "multiple" battles. This is so cool!
First post in this thread.were you speaking of the Generic Equipment Table
Which at this level of abstraction I'd argue are non-factors. After all it is a week's worth of movement and combat. As such I can't really see how that'd be that significant of an impact.
Basically. Although for the Clans, the A-technology unit stats for tanks and aerospace fighters represent Stars.
The biggest issue as far as I can put together is actually going to be with Comstar/Word of Blake* units.
Infantry is more...generic, as the differences are exceptionally minimal at this scale.
In respect to the 208th Division IV-Eta, the six elements were composed of the following:
6 ASF squadrons (36 ASF)
12 'Mech companies (120 BattleMechs)
2 Tank companies (24 Tanks)
2 Battle Armor companies (24 Squads)
4 Infantry companies (12 Platoons)
was more thinking along the lines of speed which is very impotent to this level of conflict.
so just a question if i wanted a motor or mechanized infantry unit (jump is more then likely recon inf) would i just slap a movement of 4 on heavy inf(mech) and,standard inf (motor) ?
this works for me but is this how to do it?
Well first off, Motorized Infantry cannot go speed 4. As for Mechanized Infantry, if you want them to have heavy firepower, they're probably only moving speed 3.i was just going off the units listed in the force write-ups for the sample scenarios.
i was just going off the units listed in the force write-ups for the sample scenarios.
Ah, well those infantry regiments have light vehicle companies mixed in with them. A motorized regiment has 7 infantry companies and 2 light tank companies. A Mechanized regiment is 6 infantry / 3 light tank. (APCs, ahoy!)works for me
this may sound like a dumb question but a what level do you make morale checksThat would depend on scale. In SO it was on company, I'd reckon it'll be on battalion on this planetary invasion scenarios, and regiments in the ISW.
1.battlegroup
2.regiment
3.battalion
this may sound like a dumb question but a what level do you make morale checks
1.battlegroup
2.regiment
3.battalion
Question
how would i submit my tactics table for use without legal issues ?
P.S not looking for money or anything just to help make the ASC the best it can be (for the love of the game O0 )