Author Topic: The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core  (Read 26634 times)

Korzon77

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The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core
« on: 18 November 2019, 01:46:36 »
According to the game, the Data core found on the Argo pretty much was a complete list of all SLDF facilities, both open and secret, in teh periphery.

(Bad Opsec SLDF--no Biscuit!).

But since this came from before the uprising and Amaris conflict, how many of htem would likely survive?  And what use would you put the core to, given A. the Coalition's lack of jumpships and B. it's small size.

Which is to say for B. I can see a very good argument for not wanting to find something so valuable that say, it puts them on the Radar of the Taurians, the Capellans, or worst of all, Comstar.

Frabby

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Re: The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core
« Reply #1 on: 18 November 2019, 02:21:40 »
The data core isn't mentioned in the Arano Housebook as far as I recall, so it isn't a concern in main BT canon.

Within the HBS computer game continuity, you can handwave it in the same way as you handwave a third rate periphery merc unit in the boondocks having assault 'Mechs or salvaging the Argo to flight status.

That said, the data is probably very outdated. Lostech caches may be a staple of BT fiction, but the SLDF had no reason to forget such caches and leave them behind; I‘d expect all those bases to have been cleared out and sealed by the SLDF before they left.
Heck, in this region of space you're more likely to find forgotten caches of Amaris, the Taurians, the Canopians, and the Capellans (in this order) than SLDF.
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Colt Ward

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Re: The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core
« Reply #2 on: 18 November 2019, 13:29:31 »
They left some very vague hints, but since the PCs in the book were not the mercs it does not really matter IMO.

Additionally, I would not expect the map to have any bases but the ones around the MOC/TC area it was operating.
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dgorsman

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Re: The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core
« Reply #3 on: 18 November 2019, 13:59:35 »
Or the list was generated from an SLDF intelligence operation.  Just enough known and "public secret" locations to make it look real with the rest carefully curated fakes.  Leak it out, see where the information turns up.
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RifleMech

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Re: The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core
« Reply #4 on: 18 November 2019, 18:47:18 »
The SLDF didn't take everything. There's the facilities on Outreach, there's Camelot Command, there's the storage facility on Helm among others. So there could still be bases left to find. What they contain and how useful it would be though could be anything. 

I think known facilities would have been taken over by locals or long since stripped of anything useful. That said, there could still be hidden areas left to discover.  After all if there can be lost areas on Hesperus II there could certainly be lost areas in abandoned bases. And they can vary from a closet to a hanger bay to an entire underground facility.

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Re: The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core
« Reply #5 on: 18 November 2019, 19:36:04 »
Given that RL I've seen actual military facilities find entire lost warehouses that they'd accidentally built around till they were inaccessible then forgotten.  On bases still in use with the new warehouses around the 'lost' warehouse still in use right next to it.  I am absolutely willing to believe that the SLDF can have just left behind facilities with bunches of stuff in them.  I've seen things like that happen.  I've been to entire office buildings that the Federal government decided were no longer needed and just locked up and left for a decade or two and the responsible party who owned the facility forgot it was even there in under a decade and only rediscovered it when the contracted landscaping and maintenance company handling upkeep billed them extra for repairs after a storm.

So when you've got the SLDF with millions upon millions of personnel scattered across hundreds of worlds with the full extent of their facilities probably unknown even to them over a period of centuries?  Absolutely they'll loose stuff.  I wouldn't be surprised if there are still boneyards of mothballed hardware decommissioned after the Reunification War patiently waiting for reactivation all over the Inner Sphere that had been forgotten about before the Star League even fell just through sheer age and lost records.
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Adventwolf

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Re: The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core
« Reply #6 on: 19 November 2019, 00:06:00 »
Most would have been stripped during the fighting in the periphery when the SLDF got word of the coup. Not all of them of course and the Data Core with the locations would have been kept as one of the biggest secrets the Coalition would have. That means the source book which is a report from the MoC and even says in the report we do not know everything or are we completely certain what we know is true means the Coalition has managed to keep the existence of the core a secret. After all no one knows where the Atlas II came from which means no one would know about the core.
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Re: The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core
« Reply #7 on: 19 November 2019, 14:25:01 »
Given that RL I've seen actual military facilities find entire lost warehouses that they'd accidentally built around till they were inaccessible then forgotten. 

[...]

I wouldn't be surprised if there are still boneyards of mothballed hardware decommissioned after the Reunification War patiently waiting for reactivation all over the Inner Sphere that had been forgotten about before the Star League even fell just through sheer age and lost records.
This. And it gets more likely and absurd, the bigger and more inaccessible the area is over which gear and sites were spread out.
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Re: The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core
« Reply #8 on: 19 November 2019, 16:06:05 »
I mean, think of it . . . we had a story a few years back where they unearthed Spitfires that were still in shipping state in Burma?  They found a German tank, WWII AA gun and other weapons hidden away in a villa a few years back.  I know someone talked about finding tanks put in storage post WWII on a US base in W Germany- they were only found b/c the bunker was being cleared as part of the pull out.

Soldiers IMO tend to be packrats on the basis you never know if Supply is going to actually give you something when you want/need it.  My old unit had several examples of this in a 8x10 section room . . . at some point the Army had gone to fiberglass camo net spreaders . . . we still had one bag of the aluminum system (just in case) that was off the books.  We had a WWII/Korea era field telephone system (never used until a mickey mouse 1SG wanted to play Army) which had apparently been replaced because it was a 'torture device' . . . used WAY more for practical jokes from what I heard- wiring up the porta-john seat for example.  Heck, we had a ruggedized shipping box back there that sat in a corner when I got there- we never messed with it until cleaning the room up for a inspection (tar from the roof being re-pitched had leaked through on it.  Cracked it open and discovered a whole new set of camo nets that was off the books- they may have gone back to Desert Storm (14-15 years) when they got re-issued for field loss, but the unit had a 100% personnel turn over in the space of 2 years.
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glitterboy2098

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Re: The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core
« Reply #9 on: 19 November 2019, 18:52:49 »
periphery sites would especially be likely to still be waiting around, IMO. sites in the inner sphere would likely have been stumbled over much quicker, unless the site had been actively hidden from everyone like with the Helm site. but the periphery sites are likely going to be on worlds few people have reason to visit, or have any real record of. and while i do suspect that a lot were stripped by the SLDF headed inwards to fight amaris, i also think that a lot would be left behind at those sites.. after all, the units only had so much supply cubage aboard their dropships and warships, and not everything that would have been stockpiled at those bases in the periphery would have fit, or been needed. this is especially true of any units that stayed put during the civil war to keep the peace, and then were told to evacuate for the exodus. in that later case you can bet they probably left behind mechs, vehicles, ammo, and so on in favor of food and spare parts for the ships.

that said, i doubt the periphery sites would have all that much in the way of the SLDF's really advanced hardware, instead i'd expect to see a lot of their standard grade stuff (that was succession wars or early clan era grade tech equivalents)


RifleMech

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Re: The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core
« Reply #10 on: 19 November 2019, 19:55:08 »
Was just reading Liberation of Terra and the SLDF had known bases and they had hidden ones. It also said the SLDF troops mobilized to head toward the RWR that they either stripped their bases or secured them against intrusion.  They did this in the Periphery and in the Houses. It also gave an example of what happened to those who tried to force their way in.

I can easily see hidden facilities still being around, although their entrances may no longer exist. Centuries of rebuilding could have easily covered up an entrance. Even if one had a map, finding them could be difficult. I can also see a lot of things buried in rubble or submerged under water. They may or may not be worth the effort of digging them out. That still leaves a lot of material that can be sitting in plain sight or just behind a wall. There's also places out in space for lots of material could be.

I would think that most finds would be Standard Tech or older but lostech items have been found so there could be more out there. There could even be research faculties with prototypes of advanced tech or different/alternative tech, or just bizarre tech.

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Re: The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core
« Reply #11 on: 19 November 2019, 20:57:42 »
Cate's Hold allegedly hosted an SLDF Special Forces base... can't remember where I read that...

Maelwys

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Re: The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core
« Reply #12 on: 19 November 2019, 23:32:03 »
I'd be interested if you remember where you read that.

Daryk

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Re: The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core
« Reply #13 on: 20 November 2019, 04:29:01 »
I'll look for it this weekend...

glitterboy2098

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Re: The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core
« Reply #14 on: 20 November 2019, 08:45:06 »
according to Sarna it was the site of a pre-reunification war Magistracy naval base, which the SLDF occupied after the war.
no mention of special forces on sarna, but given the importance of naval bases, i wouldn't entirely rule out their presence.

i do know that Cawest gave it a spec-ops base in his BT/BSG sidestory, with no mention of whether it was based on something he'd found in a sourcebook or added himself.
« Last Edit: 20 November 2019, 08:54:38 by glitterboy2098 »

Adventwolf

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Re: The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core
« Reply #15 on: 20 November 2019, 13:35:44 »
If bases and caches are still around they are far more likely to be stocked with fairly standard SLDF equipment. Which is better overall IMO. Getting a prototype or experimental tech would be far beyond the ablity of the Coalition's or really any periphery power's ablity to reverse engineer. While getting standard equipment would give them plenty of examples to work off of and are the easiest to use in order to increase the tech base of the Coalition.
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glitterboy2098

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Re: The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core
« Reply #16 on: 20 November 2019, 13:54:57 »
assuming they even could reverse engineer. standard SLDF gear would be more useful just as supplies for rebuilding.. in many cases they could be easily retrofitted to use standard weapons and armor either right off or as attrition catches up, and the Coalition really just needs replacements for lost units more than fancy tech. i could see them stripping the advanced tech weapons and refitting to the succession wars grade versions for most of the stuff they find, and stockpiling that advanced tech as spare parts for a few advanced mechs.

Colt Ward

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Re: The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core
« Reply #17 on: 20 November 2019, 14:02:06 »
I do not know, because the other aspect you will have to take into account is Kamea's experiences.  She may be afraid to go after a cache since last time the automated defenses of the cache was extremely dangerous and right on the heels of their arrival a stronger power showed up . . .

So it comes down to . . . will she lose more than she gains trying to open one up?  will the secret get out and her forces gain access only to have the Taurians, Capellans, Feddies, Dracs or others show up to steal the prize?  We already have a scenario IIRC that has some House-backed treasure hunters digging through some tunnels on a Coalition world.
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glitterboy2098

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Re: The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core
« Reply #18 on: 20 November 2019, 14:16:47 »
true. it might be easier for them to barter the data for supplies and support.. selling the location of sites near the magistracy in exchange for funds or military shipments for example. let others take the risk of excavating the sites, and turn the info itself into political capital.

Adventwolf

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Re: The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core
« Reply #19 on: 20 November 2019, 14:52:58 »
They would be able to reverse engineer the standard technology. Despite the lowering tech level that everyone is suffering from research can and still is being done. Unless the cache only has a very small amount of the equipment they would have enough examples that they can do the research on them without worrying about destroying their only sample.

As for selling the locations. That has the problem that the moment it is done the secret is out that the Coalition has a core. That means they get killed by everyone to get the rest. The only option is to keep it secret and only go after a cache when they can keep it hidden. Which if they don't go around using a bunch of SLDF mechs is fairly easy to do. Especially if they use most of the equipment to aid in research or only refitting their current units.
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Re: The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core
« Reply #20 on: 20 November 2019, 20:28:14 »
The original Periphery book only mentions "caches of Star League equipment", so that wasn't it... I'll keep looking...

Korzon77

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Re: The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core
« Reply #21 on: 21 November 2019, 04:06:57 »
There's also the thought of a junkyard--which is to say, the SLDF even during the Amaris conflict, probably had a far different view of "irrecoverable" than the modern era where even major powers struggle to keep up with attrition.

RifleMech

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Re: The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core
« Reply #22 on: 21 November 2019, 04:53:11 »
They would be able to reverse engineer the standard technology. Despite the lowering tech level that everyone is suffering from research can and still is being done. Unless the cache only has a very small amount of the equipment they would have enough examples that they can do the research on them without worrying about destroying their only sample.

As for selling the locations. That has the problem that the moment it is done the secret is out that the Coalition has a core. That means they get killed by everyone to get the rest. The only option is to keep it secret and only go after a cache when they can keep it hidden. Which if they don't go around using a bunch of SLDF mechs is fairly easy to do. Especially if they use most of the equipment to aid in research or only refitting their current units.



They could probably figure out how to make one. Being able to come up with the materials though might be a problem. Mass production would be another.

They could go after the bases in an undercover op. Pose as a lostech prospector who uncovered a map to a base and hire some mercs for a percentage of what's found.


There's also the thought of a junkyard--which is to say, the SLDF even during the Amaris conflict, probably had a far different view of "irrecoverable" than the modern era where even major powers struggle to keep up with attrition.

They used to scrap mechs pretty easily. During the fighting with Amaris though I think that would have changed. They couldn't replace mechs as easily then so what once would have been scrapped is now rebuilt.

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Re: The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core
« Reply #23 on: 21 November 2019, 10:55:47 »
Sure, but Korzon would be referring to something out in the Periphery . . . would Kerensky send a convoy back to the TC area to recover a battalion's worth of wrecks sitting out in a desert on a old SLDF base world somewhere?  Sure they had their engines, gyros, weapons, and targeting computers ripped out besides being broken/shot up . . . but would he have bothered with such a collection of husks put into storage knowing it would be months before the hulks could arrive?
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Re: The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core
« Reply #24 on: 21 November 2019, 11:21:56 »
The more likely scenario would be a couple of bases that were stripped of anything "useful", then sealed and abandoned.  The "less useful" stuff left behind for lack of space to haul it could still have a fair amount of value, but might not be worth a return trip for the SLDF.  With the scarcity resulting from the Succession Wars, that "less useful" stuff could have become worth quite a bit.

The question comes down to: (1) was the place looted of everything else afterward by the locals or lostech prospectors, and (2) is it worth the risk of trying to get to it without someone else owning the planet or any automated defensive systems making it a bad idea.

Letting out the knowledge of the existence of the core itself would most likely be a very bad idea.  You can't easily negotiate a trade for something that you don't even dare reveal that you own, lest someone take it by force (whether by assassination, theft, or outright invasion).

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Re: The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core
« Reply #25 on: 22 November 2019, 05:08:50 »
Sure, but Korzon would be referring to something out in the Periphery . . . would Kerensky send a convoy back to the TC area to recover a battalion's worth of wrecks sitting out in a desert on a old SLDF base world somewhere?  Sure they had their engines, gyros, weapons, and targeting computers ripped out besides being broken/shot up . . . but would he have bothered with such a collection of husks put into storage knowing it would be months before the hulks could arrive?

Since Kerensky didn't empty out the facility on Helm I doubt he'd go back to pick up some wrecks.  Then again, if there were something that was valuable or useful for the Exodus, more so that even fully operational mechs, and it was only found in the Periphery I can see Kerensky sending someone to go get it.

Frabby

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Re: The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core
« Reply #26 on: 22 November 2019, 08:46:19 »
The SLDF under Kerensky was fighting a tough war of attrition in the Periphery Uprising. This is not your peacetime SLDF that misplaces stuff; this is an army depleted for fighting machines and supplies much like the later Succession Wars era setting, minus the lostech.
I find it hard to believe they would not have pressed any serviceable hardware into service to begin with. (I seem to recall a notion somewhere that the SLDF in the periphery ended up cannibalizing their own units to keep at least a part of them operational, and were seriously depleted for war material.)

And then the Amaris Coup happened. Kerensky, already pretty much without support, had a new war on his hands. So he consolidated his worn-out forces, left behind what he couldn't use (which means it was in a state where nobody could use it anymore), and left to conquer the RWR. In preparation for this moving out, he made peace with the periphery and even bargained war material for supplies. Again, this isn't a situation where any appreciable amount of material would be overlooked as they packed up. They were desperate for any equipment they could find.
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RifleMech

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Re: The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core
« Reply #27 on: 22 November 2019, 11:17:02 »
The SLDF under Kerensky was fighting a tough war of attrition in the Periphery Uprising. This is not your peacetime SLDF that misplaces stuff; this is an army depleted for fighting machines and supplies much like the later Succession Wars era setting, minus the lostech.
I find it hard to believe they would not have pressed any serviceable hardware into service to begin with. (I seem to recall a notion somewhere that the SLDF in the periphery ended up cannibalizing their own units to keep at least a part of them operational, and were seriously depleted for war material.)

And then the Amaris Coup happened. Kerensky, already pretty much without support, had a new war on his hands. So he consolidated his worn-out forces, left behind what he couldn't use (which means it was in a state where nobody could use it anymore), and left to conquer the RWR. In preparation for this moving out, he made peace with the periphery and even bargained war material for supplies. Again, this isn't a situation where any appreciable amount of material would be overlooked as they packed up. They were desperate for any equipment they could find.

And yet we have the the facility on Helm filled with Battlemechs. I also don't recall reading anything about him bargaining for war supplies with the Periphery. Just that he ordered a cease fire with the Periphery Realms. Except for the RWR which he attacked to gain supplies because he knew he couldn't get them from other sources. Liberation of Terra I also says that bases were stripped or secured against entry. That tells me some equipment was left behind during the Civil War. Later on Kerensky still left equipment on Helm even though he was grabbing everything else including every Mackie he could find. If he left alll Battlemechs on Helm he's not going to go all the way out to the Periphery to empty out bases there. So either things were forgotten or he deliberately left things for the divisions staying behind.

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Re: The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core
« Reply #28 on: 22 November 2019, 11:32:48 »
True Frabby, but you run up against a specific problem that can occur in wartime- the people with the compartmentalized information end up dead or get drafted to fill in gaps other places.  It can cause a situation where command does not know what they do not know- which with gear being stashed off the books can cause a problem.  Remember that story about the tanks found deep in the bunker?  SOMEONE put them there, but then that person either misfiled the paperwork, paperwork got lost, or . . . the paperwork was never filed in the first place b/c they were extras retained after WWII.  Now, all the people involved think they are known about and/or recorded . . . they then sign off on the inventory when they hand their duties over to someone else- signing over buildings & inventories is a big chore and usually the larger the pile is, the less likely someone is to inspect it all.

So easy scenario . . . division gets called up by Kerensky from Random Periphery 1 sending a warship/JS/DS task force that can transport all the division's combat personnel, three quarters of their support staff, and a limited number of supplies (basically 2 or 3 units of fire plus sundries) but cannot take say a battalion of machines.  All the satellite bases send the most sensitive items- weapons, ammo, comms, computers, documents, and more- back to the main base which still leaves rations, butt-wipe, laundry, etc.  Seriously, look at what happens when a base is closed down and then imagine that as part of a emergency operation.  The satellite bases- which can be regional garrisons, training range quarters/motorpool, or anything in between-  lock up anything they leave behind with instructions for the local police to respond to alarms.  The whole division's equipment would be sorted with the most problematic machines or the ones in/needing refit being left behind.  The support staff that stays behind would be working on them and base security would be tasked to keep all the sensitive items secure.

If the support staff had to rejoin Kerensky using civil transport, then I would expect them to disable as much as possible they could not take with them- easiest way is to remove the HD that controls the movement of the mech, basically what the neurohelmet talks to for moving.  Mechs and armor might be put in ammo bunker's lowest levels with the entrances collapsed to keep people out.

One important thing to remember, as the SLDF was re-deploying from their bases across human space to go after Aramis, they expected to return to the pre-coup life.  Star League officers expected to the bases and depots they were leaving . . . its only as time went on and senior officers saw the SLDF & Kerensky abandoned did they start taking measures for area/material denial.

I honestly think Helm was one of those orphaned commands.  Loss of links in the chain of command above the base, maybe left off the distribution of codes & other encrypted communication . . . so it did not matter the CO was sending messages to the SLDF, his intended recipients were glowing radiated embers and the back-up channels ignored the messages since they never made it through the filters since they were not in the latest codes.
Colt Ward
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"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

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Re: The Aurigan Coalition and the Data Core
« Reply #29 on: 22 November 2019, 14:19:58 »
So long as the AC is careful. They can make great use of information on the core. Even older and less advanced equipment would help to improve the AC tech base. The SLDF would have left older or logistically difficult units behind when they went back to the IS to fight.
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