Author Topic: Battletech tie-ins  (Read 6119 times)

Failure16

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Re: Battletech tie-ins
« Reply #30 on: 13 May 2018, 19:45:52 »
Look, the issue here is about timeliness and having a business plan model that is observable to the customer base because of its proper execution.  Both IMR and CGL make a big deal about not releasing street dates until product is essentially in hand--so why release hints of miniatures without their release concept in hand?

I will be the first to say that everyone (well, the defendants) is getting a raw deal because of this unfolding litigation.  There is no need to point out that no forward movement on half the Unseen is occurring because of it.  The point is that in 2015 there was no litigation.  In 2015, the boxed sets with the Unseen (or simply the miniatures themselves) could have been released, riding the wave of nostalgia and goodwill that was extant when the WHM and LCT redesigns were first touted.  Many of the Unseen that are still able to be released as they were (the Ost-series) still lie fallow. 

It has been said that there is no particular vehicle to release them and that art is not free; fair enough.  Perhaps that should have been thought further through when a handful of the Unseen were released in what became a haphazard form.  Not all of that was CGL's fault.  All of the other media partners are in different financial and developmental situations/cycles, so coordination might well have been impossible.  Indeed, even if they had released every redesigned Unseen in 2015 in a grand boxed set the litigation as it is today would still be ongoing.

But CGL would have gotten its money and boxed sets would have been released then amidst a wave of nostalgia and a dynamic synthesis of popularity from other mediums/sources.
« Last Edit: 14 May 2018, 20:58:57 by Failure16 »
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Re: Battletech tie-ins
« Reply #31 on: 14 May 2018, 07:40:04 »
I have also realized that Battletech Tabletop is a mess and there's no way I'm going to end up getting into it, nor could I ever convince my friends (many of whom have shown interest in playing the new videogame) in bothering with it. I'm not sure if they could actually revamp, reboot or otherwise fix it up. It's just as much the

You sort of trailed off there at the end, but someone actually mentioned a product that may be what you're looking for: Alpha Strike. It's a faster playing version of the tabletop game specifically targeting new players who are more familiar with WH40K, Flames of War, etc. Best part is that Alpha Strike Unit cards are available from the Master Unit List website (http://www.masterunitlist.info/) for free, and you can use proxies for your miniatures. So if you have a Missile Boat, use a Devastator marine with a missile launcher. You can check out the Alpha Strike discussion board for more info.
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Re: Battletech tie-ins
« Reply #32 on: 14 May 2018, 10:04:33 »
You sort of trailed off there at the end

I wrote that at 4 in the morning after a night of wargaming with friends, during a distressing conversation about BT and just before bed; It's certinaly not my best work.

As for Alpha Strike, this is exactly the problem that people are having. I appreciate your idea of using proxies and unit cards, but I have to convince my friends that this is a game they should want to learn. The fact is that part of the attraction the minitures, and when you go to the CGL page it redirects you to the battletech.com, which sends you to battlecorps.com for purchasing, but ultimatley this chain of links is broken which means you can only buy a PDF of rules for $40. I went to amazon to look for boxes, theres only a few left and prices are going up, not impossible but also not great for trying to convince my friends when i'm not even sure where they go to get access to the product line. It's just sort of an unfortunate situation for all involved, Cubby highlighted that.

Speaking of which, I appreciate the responses so far; This is all helpful and I've become quite enamoured by the community which has such love for a product with so much going on (good and bad). Truth is I'll probably get a lance of IWM mini's to paint with my girlfriend, she's more interested in painting them than warhammer even if we don't end up in the game.
« Last Edit: 14 May 2018, 10:49:12 by Kingfisher »

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Re: Battletech tie-ins
« Reply #33 on: 14 May 2018, 10:41:21 »

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Re: Battletech tie-ins
« Reply #34 on: 14 May 2018, 11:48:31 »
Thanks Sartris. The $40 is probably for the hardcover book link that doesn't work, it's just a maze to find what you need sometimes. Turns out the CGL store is better than the offical Battletech page; So that's already a better place to start, though it's not what you first find when searching.

I do love Battletech, you're right that it's worth it.
« Last Edit: 14 May 2018, 13:01:59 by Kingfisher »

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Re: Battletech tie-ins
« Reply #35 on: 14 May 2018, 18:01:57 »
Thanks Sartris. The $40 is probably for the hardcover book link that doesn't work, it's just a maze to find what you need sometimes. Turns out the CGL store is better than the offical Battletech page; So that's already a better place to start, though it's not what you first find when searching.

I do love Battletech, you're right that it's worth it.

Um.  May I suggest Drive-through RPG, instead?  I wouldn't risk a hardcopy purchase, and there are - problems - with the company store.  I can't support it, myself.
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Re: Battletech tie-ins
« Reply #36 on: 14 May 2018, 18:09:00 »
Done two book orders in the past two months and gotten the books within the week and I’ve never had problems with PDFs

Also drivethru rpgs are password locked so you can’t edit them with eratta, etc. if that’s not a concern, there’s nothing wrong with DTRPG.
« Last Edit: 14 May 2018, 18:19:06 by Sartris »

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Re: Battletech tie-ins
« Reply #37 on: 14 May 2018, 18:44:10 »
Done two book orders in the past two months and gotten the books within the week and I’ve never had problems with PDFs

Also drivethru rpgs are password locked so you can’t edit them with eratta, etc. if that’s not a concern, there’s nothing wrong with DTRPG.

Usually if the erratas are updated to the PDF, you can redownload the file.  Depends on the producer, though.
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Re: Battletech tie-ins
« Reply #38 on: 14 May 2018, 19:09:16 »
My experience with Drive-Thru has been entirely positive.  When I lost the thumb drive I had all my books downloaded to, I was able to re-download them without issue...

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Re: Battletech tie-ins
« Reply #39 on: 14 May 2018, 19:23:03 »
My experience with Drive-Thru has been entirely positive.  When I lost the thumb drive I had all my books downloaded to, I was able to re-download them without issue...

Yeah, redownloading it isn't the problem, the question is if the provider updated the file so that redownloading will include any changes.  I have access to the Heavy Gear Live rulebook, and so when they update that one, I can just download the new version.
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Re: Battletech tie-ins
« Reply #40 on: 14 May 2018, 19:32:55 »
CGL generally only does pdf updates before a new printing. So we’ve been sitting on that core rulebooks eratta now for a hot minute.

Anyway I wasn’t trying to disparage DTRPG (it really is a fine site and they have more than a few of my dollars). just pointing out that the bad old days of the CGL store are past.

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Re: Battletech tie-ins
« Reply #41 on: 14 May 2018, 20:33:17 »
I want to remind everyone that there were some initial connections between the companies.

Thanks for all the info Cubby.  Is there open/better communication now between the various companies (Catalyst, HBS, PGI, and whomever else) to hopefully remedy some of this?

Are there simpler, low- or no-cost mar/comm things that could have been done to help transition video game players over?

Do you think these things will have an opportunity to show up for MW5, or a Battletech expansion, etc.?  Even without mega-investments, just something to get the crowd going, so to speak.  Painting competitions, unit color creations, or short sales on specific mechs at IWM to coincide with some DLC, another event, just something to get people talking?  I'm the exact opposite of creative, but it'd still be nice to see something community-wise.  Esp. now with Adepticus Titanicus looking like it's going to launch with some really good looking models  :-[

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Re: Battletech tie-ins
« Reply #42 on: 14 May 2018, 22:07:57 »
Thanks for all the info Cubby.  Is there open/better communication now between the various companies (Catalyst, HBS, PGI, and whomever else) to hopefully remedy some of this?

Better than there was at the time of the HBS Kickstarter? It's hard for me to say for sure--I'm not privy to every conversation, not even close. I guess I would say, somewhat?

CGL is included in MechCon, which is primarily a PGI thing, and that's good. And Randall and Jordan have some personal ties that go back awhile. But coordinating a true cross-company marketing effort in any industry, let alone across gaming industry sectors, is very, very difficult and time-consuming.

For example, HBS created the PC game, but all the marketing for it was done by Paradox and backed by (what I can tell from experience, but not direct knowledge) was a significant ad buy. Paradox doesn't know me from a hole in the ground--I've reached out, but that doesn't mean they're inclined to do anything for me. And again, the time I spend trying to get them to do something is time that I'm not spending on an internal effort which may yield better results.

I've said this before, but it's all part of the landscape with a split IP. Fans want to see all the license holders pulling in the same direction. But each company has different factors to consider about what's best for their business, and what's best for them isn't always a priority for everyone else.

The more positive view to take is that, IMO, there's still plenty that we can do to boost awareness of the tabletop game without entering the uncertain waters of cross-company promotions. That's what I'm personally focused on at the moment.

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Do you think these things will have an opportunity to show up for MW5, or a Battletech expansion, etc.?  Even without mega-investments, just something to get the crowd going, so to speak.  Painting competitions, unit color creations, or short sales on specific mechs at IWM to coincide with some DLC, another event, just something to get people talking?  I'm the exact opposite of creative, but it'd still be nice to see something community-wise.  Esp. now with Adepticus Titanicus looking like it's going to launch with some really good looking models  :-[

Mega-investments are definitely not necessary--the "plenty that can be done" that I just mentioned can also be done at very low cost to start. It's just a matter of dedicating the time and focus needed.

As far as your specific ideas: painting competitions have been run before, and could be again; it comes up every once in awhile but does take a fairly high level of coordination. As far as a mini sale, remember that Iron Wind Metals is also its own company, and not beholden to CGL management telling it what to put on sale; likewise, profits from that sale would support their company, not CGL.

« Last Edit: 14 May 2018, 22:09:30 by Cubby »
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Re: Battletech tie-ins
« Reply #43 on: 14 May 2018, 22:23:43 »
HBS tried crowd funding for merch, only half the stuff got enough founder to be produced. There just isn't enough demand as of yet to produce merch for anything other than cons, especially with fly-by-night internet retailers constantly ripping off designs.
I think those failed because the prices were just way too high.  The items looked Cool, but even as much of a BT Collector as I am, I couldn't bite the bullet for anything they had.   :-\
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Re: Battletech tie-ins
« Reply #44 on: 14 May 2018, 23:06:52 »
Since my finances got straightened out I have been looking for the links to HBS merch in a effort to pick some of it up.  But that page is now gone unless someone else can  direct me.  The wife went looking for the posters but nothing was there- I figured some of it was HG related since one was a Warhammer IIRC.
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Re: Battletech tie-ins
« Reply #45 on: 15 May 2018, 00:48:37 »
@Cubby you could always try to get MWO, MW5, and HBS BT to ship with a PDF catalog of current BT products. Might even motivate HBS and PGI to offer up some plastic mechs like the IWM museum scale stuff  :P

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Re: Battletech tie-ins
« Reply #46 on: 15 May 2018, 00:51:23 »
I think those failed because the prices were just way too high.
The Hoodies cost no more than the ones at my FLGS. Other game related were can get allot pricier, online retailers price gouge geeks and gamers hard anymore.

The Atlas statue was pricey but it was a freak'n huge Atlas statue! Not sure why they didn't make something smaller thus cheaper but hey, at least a couple of people got a wicked cool prize at Mech Con! 

The fact the coasters and beer stein got the founding just tells me it really is a Beer and Pretzels game ;D (I can make other jokes but I'm choosing to take the high road)   
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Re: Battletech tie-ins
« Reply #47 on: 15 May 2018, 06:11:56 »
@Cubby you could always try to get MWO, MW5, and HBS BT to ship with a PDF catalog of current BT products. Might even motivate HBS and PGI to offer up some plastic mechs like the IWM museum scale stuff  :P

Something like the BattleTech Primer CGL released back in 2015?

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Re: Battletech tie-ins
« Reply #48 on: 15 May 2018, 07:02:47 »
I wrote that at 4 in the morning after a night of wargaming with friends, during a distressing conversation about BT and just before bed; It's certinaly not my best work.
No problem. Been there.

As for Alpha Strike, this is exactly the problem that people are having. I appreciate your idea of using proxies and unit cards, but I have to convince my friends that this is a game they should want to learn. The fact is that part of the attraction the minitures, and when you go to the CGL page it redirects you to the battletech.com, which sends you to battlecorps.com for purchasing, but ultimatley this chain of links is broken which means you can only buy a PDF of rules for $40. I went to amazon to look for boxes, theres only a few left and prices are going up, not impossible but also not great for trying to convince my friends when i'm not even sure where they go to get access to the product line. It's just sort of an unfortunate situation for all involved, Cubby highlighted that.

Yeah, that kind of sucks. The Battlecorps site should be shut down, IMHO, and redirected to store.catalyst.com or whatever it is now.

If you want minis, visit Iron Wind Metals. https://ironwindmetals.com/ They make lots and lots and lots of metal minis for BattleTech.

Speaking of which, I appreciate the responses so far; This is all helpful and I've become quite enamoured by the community which has such love for a product with so much going on (good and bad). Truth is I'll probably get a lance of IWM mini's to paint with my girlfriend, she's more interested in painting them than warhammer even if we don't end up in the game.

Just re-read this. Ignore my Iron Wind metals link since you've already found it. ;)
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Re: Battletech tie-ins
« Reply #49 on: 15 May 2018, 07:30:26 »
I think those failed because the prices were just way too high.  The items looked Cool, but even as much of a BT Collector as I am, I couldn't bite the bullet for anything they had.   :-\

Bingo. For a more reasonable price, I'd have jumped at a FWL banner or something like that for my workbench area. But... not for what I was needing to throw at it. It's a pity, because it was really neat stuff they were looking to make, but I have finite resources.  :-\
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Re: Battletech tie-ins
« Reply #50 on: 15 May 2018, 08:30:01 »
Bingo. For a more reasonable price, I'd have jumped at a FWL banner or something like that for my workbench area. But... not for what I was needing to throw at it. It's a pity, because it was really neat stuff they were looking to make, but I have finite resources.  :-\

Ie. Catalyst's standard answer to "why not X merchandise?" is "We'd love to do X, but haven't found a way to make it work."  It's easy to want X (both from the fan side and CGL's side). It's much more difficult, especially with a small fan base, to make X at a price point that justifies making it. And that justification has to work all the way through the supply chain (CGL, manufacturer, distributor, retailer, fan) or it fails. Thus why the "discount" of not having the cost of retail and most of that supply chain at conventions makes X far more likely to work.
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Re: Battletech tie-ins
« Reply #51 on: 15 May 2018, 08:31:24 »
Oh I get the reasoning... I just also see my own bank account and know that there's a point where it's not financially feasible for me to pick between purple-eagle banner on my wall or groceries.  xp
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Re: Battletech tie-ins
« Reply #52 on: 15 May 2018, 08:48:03 »
Having worked for one of, if not the, largest gaming companies in the industry I can tell you, tie-ins are no gaurantee of success and are a big risk the smaller the company gets. And that is when you OWN your IP and are not just licensing it.

We would all love more Battletech merchandise, but I for one would want to see CGL work more on getting products out and advancing the plot in a concise way then finding someone to make merchandise. Someone buying an intro box is not certain to be a new player, and someone who plays the video game is not automatically going to start playing the table top, I know this from experience.

The best way for CGL to grow the game is to make a good game. Which in my opinion they already do. If you are worried about the direction of the game, teach people to play. In the 28 years since I started playing I must have taught at least 40 people how to play. And even then not all of them still play. This is a niche market and a small one at that.

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Re: Battletech tie-ins
« Reply #53 on: 15 May 2018, 09:06:37 »
I for one would want to see CGL work more on getting products out and advancing the plot in a concise way then finding someone to make merchandise.

Or, to my point above, spending undue amounts of time on trying to get ad placement in another company's product, rather than developing your own.

It's all a question of return on investment. There are lots of worthy ideas being brought up here and elsewhere--honestly, none have really been non-starters. But how many person-hours from top management, how many e-mail chains, how many days and weeks lost waiting for another company's approval are you willing to spend on those ideas? Is there a good chance of the idea happening, or is that effort being directed toward something with a slim hope of actually coming to pass? Is there data to prove that the time and resources will generate a worthwhile return? Or just a general sense of "it would be good to have [blank]"?

And again, there were/are plenty of communications-related things that can be done to provide a quick, easy boost without sucking up unjustified amounts of resources. To the extent I let that opportunity slide by, that's on me.

There's not much more I can say without needing to just put my money where my mouth is, and continue working to improve BT's presence in the gaming landscape.

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Re: Battletech tie-ins
« Reply #54 on: 15 May 2018, 10:01:09 »
It is frustrating to see these topics and then go to Amazon to see if any of the still outstanding Legends titles drop and see someone (or now someones, I think its 2) selling self-produced PDFs of their BT adventures using old art.  Or t-shirts with House/Clan logos on Facebook.  Or people selling 3D printed MWO mechs, unseen or variant parts of IWM mechs.

People complain about not having merchandise but then buy unlicensed or just plain stolen IP.
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Re: Battletech tie-ins
« Reply #55 on: 15 May 2018, 12:04:56 »
Welcome to the internet :(
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Re: Battletech tie-ins
« Reply #56 on: 15 May 2018, 13:03:38 »
Yeah, I hate IP piracy . . . partly b/c if its not paid for we do not get new/expanded IP.  And partly b/c one day I want my own IP, and I cannot stand thieves.
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Re: Battletech tie-ins
« Reply #57 on: 15 May 2018, 19:06:25 »
I have also realized that Battletech Tabletop is a mess and there's no way I'm going to end up getting into it, nor could I ever convince my friends (many of whom have shown interest in playing the new videogame) in bothering with it. I'm not sure if they could actually revamp, reboot or otherwise fix it up. It's just as much the

I'm just one person, but for every one of me there's a thousand more who just said nothing and moved on. Nostalgia is a hell of a drug and I can still get hooked on BT, just not on the table...it's like the one product that doesn't actually want me to buy it.

Not to needlessly echo what has already been said, but I'll throw out another vote for Alpha Strike. 


I stopped playing Battletech in the early 2000's because of equipment bloat and only came back to the fold a few years ago because of Alpha Strike.  It is not perfect, but it solves a lot of the complexity issues, it solves the time consuming crunch, it solves the slowness, it solves the need for maps, and it solves the need for record sheets.  And it does all of that without throwing out my affection for the setting or the minis.  A lot of longtime players will say that it goes too far and isn't Battletech, or Battletech enough, but if you have never played the game before, it is a great intro.
Experimental Technical Readout: The School
http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=56420.0

Kingfisher

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Re: Battletech tie-ins
« Reply #58 on: 18 May 2018, 22:39:38 »
Despite what anyone may say about the game, the community certainly is active!

Honestly it feels like the pieces are here, just out of order. Nothing is a safe bet, but hopfully something can be done that is both cost effective and intereting enough.

May I suggest Drive-through RPG, instead?  I wouldn't risk a hardcopy purchase, and there are - problems - with the company store.  I can't support it, myself.

Thanks, always happy to have more ideas. I'll check out the RPG and your feelings on the store are noted.

Done two book orders in the past two months and gotten the books within the week and I’ve never had problems with PDFs

As are yours.

The Battlecorps site should be shut down, IMHO...Ignore my Iron Wind metals link since you've already found it. ;)

As are yours, and as you said it happens to all of us :P

Not to needlessly echo what has already been said, but I'll throw out another vote for Alpha Strike. 

This is looking like the best option for starting off, Amazon still has lance boxes with favourite mechs still available. I can force people to try it with me and then I still have the mechs if nothing else. Again, a lot of the utility will come from the painting which people will be up to this summer.