Rate That Mech; The Quckdraw

[Sandslice]

The QKD-5M is begging for someone to switch out the mixed missiles for an MML-9.


More generally, I’d say the Quickdraw is a lot like the Charger: too over-engined for the tonnage, leading to big sacrifices elsewhere.  Of course, it isn’t as bad as the Charger, but it’s a difference of degree, not of kind.  Unlike the Charger the Quickdraw still has its uses, you just have to pretend that it weighs about 40 tons.

It's definitely not over-engined; SFE 5/8/0 is warload-optimal at 60 tons (by one ton over 55), but the JJ breakpoint causes it to fall a little behind 55 if you're jumping.

[Arkansas Warrior]

When it spends so much tonnage on movement that it's armed and armored like a mech 20 tons lighter, it's over engined.  A Whitworth has more armor and brings more effective firepower to a fight that a Quickdraw (comparing the base 3025 versions.  I know some later Quickdraws are somewhat better).

[Sandslice]

When it spends so much tonnage on movement that it's armed and armored like a mech 20 tons lighter, it's over engined.  A Whitworth has more armor and brings more effective firepower to a fight that a Quickdraw (comparing the base 3025 versions.  I know some later Quickdraws are somewhat better).

A bit of perspective on the 4G: let's compare it to a Griffin (as an example of the 5/8 + jumping 55-ton series.)

1.  QKD-4G:
- LRM-10 with 1 ammo (6t) 
- 4 MLas (4t) 
- SRM-4 with 1 ammo (3t) 
- 3 heat sinks (3t) 
= 16t.

2.  GRF-1N:
- LRM-10 with 2 ammo (7t) 
- 1 PPC (7t) 
- 2 heat sinks (2t)
= 16t.

So they're carrying the same warload; the difference is that the Quickdraw pays that 1.5 ton penalty in its armour (128 vs. the Griffin's 152.)

And again, 55 and 60 are the optimal points for 5 walk MP.  You could make a case that 5 is an unnecessary compromise between 4 and 6 for movement, perhaps?

[Arkansas Warrior]

Don't forget that the Quickdraw's effective warload is yet lighter, since half its lasers are basically useless, pointed to the rear as they are.  So I guess it's partly bad design choices that make it less effective.  But still, look at what you're saying.  A mech 5 tons lighter is carrying an equal tonnage of guns and 1.5 tons more armor.  That's...not exactly demonstrative of the QKD's efficiency.

[Iceweb]

Trying to remember the fluff but didn't the Quickdraw have issues with exposed ankle actuators, that were easy for other mechs to stomp on and wreck the whole foot assembly? 
This thread seems to say that the Quickdraw's main asset is the kick (which I agree with) but for fluff reasons I never try to get a Quickdraw in a position where it can be counter kicked. 

That said the C model isn't horrible as a C3 spotter, though it is oversinked and could use a later model which gives some er mediums. 
I don't hate that it doesn't have CASE since there is only one explosive crit spot, but it screams for tandem charge warheads to half the ammo load to give you a chance to empty the bin before you blow up.

[Giovanni Blasini]

Pretty much any 60 tonner with JJs is going to have that problem...

Oddly enough, you gain a ton of available mass at 4/6/4 movement going from 55 tons to 60.  If you're gonna go 5/8/5 on a 60-tonner, though, I feel like you should max out its main advantage, which is armor mass.  The Quackdraw...doesn't.

[massey]

Optimum efficiency in the game isn't necessarily the goal, though.  As a player trying to win a game it's certainly nice, but I don't think it's something they would be as concerned about in-universe.  There would be other, more important factors.

A 55 ton mech at 5/8/5 will have a 1.5 ton advantage over a 60 ton mech.  "Great, let's do it!" you say.  But perhaps you've got a good contract for some 300 rated engines, while 275s are more expensive or harder to get.  Better to have an operational 60 ton mech that has a little less weight to play with, rather than a perfectly optimized 55 that is a hangar queen because the engine parts aren't available.  Same thing with the heavier jump jets.  Maybe you've got a bunch of 1 ton jump jets sitting around, or your defense industry needs to maintain the ability to produce those jets, so you need a mech that uses them.

As far as the rear-facing medium lasers, that might be quite useful in warfare, even if it isn't reflected in our tabletop experience.  Let's suppose for a minute that the Quickdraw gets assigned as a light mech hunter.  Now in the game, players tend to avoid designs like Wasps and Stingers.  But we know that background-wise the Inner Sphere forces contain a significant number of these.  What is the best way to fight a heavy mech if you're stuck with bugs?  Easy, get behind them and swarm them.  If you know the Quickdraw is likely to be assigned to go hunt bugs, and you know their primary tactic is to try and get in the rear arc, then giving him good rear weaponry makes a lot of sense.  The Quickdraw actually has really good rear armor for its weight class.  This sort of mech might be really useful to a battlefield commander, even if it isn't a player's preferred type of game to play.

When I see a mech that isn't so great, I ask myself "why would somebody have built this?"  If I can think of a good reason, I just accept it and move on.

[Kovax]

As far as the rear-facing medium lasers, that might be quite useful in warfare, even if it isn't reflected in our tabletop experience.  Let's suppose for a minute that the Quickdraw gets assigned as a light mech hunter.  Now in the game, players tend to avoid designs like Wasps and Stingers.  But we know that background-wise the Inner Sphere forces contain a significant number of these.  What is the best way to fight a heavy mech if you're stuck with bugs?  Easy, get behind them and swarm them.  If you know the Quickdraw is likely to be assigned to go hunt bugs, and you know their primary tactic is to try and get in the rear arc, then giving him good rear weaponry makes a lot of sense.  The Quickdraw actually has really good rear armor for its weight class.  This sort of mech might be really useful to a battlefield commander, even if it isn't a player's preferred type of game to play.

This would seem like a very valid reason for the design oddities, except that the arm-mounted MLs already give it a reasonable amount of defense against back-stabs.  Doubling up on the arm MLs would negate the reason for rear weapons completely, while also allowing all of them to be used for forward fire under "normal" circumstances.  You can't torso-twist to use an arm-mounted laser while also firing the rear weapons straight to the rear.  Putting those MLs in the arms would leave it with 4xML + SRM-4 + LRM-10, which is "enough" firepower for a Heavy, roughly comparable in damage to what a GHR can deliver.  To me, the current placement simply doesn't provide enough additional utility to make sense, so you're paying tonnage for weapons and heat sinks that will only rarely ever be used, at the expense of things that are extremely important.

[Garrand]

The other thing about rear mounted lasers is that, if you are going bug hunting, are you doing it in JUST your Quickdraw, or as part of a larger formation? The danger from backstabbing attacks can be addressed by using proper formations & flank security (i.e. deploy the lance en echelon so that the mechs can give each other mutual support to guard against a backstab attack, but can quickly form up on a line to hammer anything they come in contact with).

Damon.

[massey]

This would seem like a very valid reason for the design oddities, except that the arm-mounted MLs already give it a reasonable amount of defense against back-stabs.  Doubling up on the arm MLs would negate the reason for rear weapons completely, while also allowing all of them to be used for forward fire under "normal" circumstances.  You can't torso-twist to use an arm-mounted laser while also firing the rear weapons straight to the rear.  Putting those MLs in the arms would leave it with 4xML + SRM-4 + LRM-10, which is "enough" firepower for a Heavy, roughly comparable in damage to what a GHR can deliver.  To me, the current placement simply doesn't provide enough additional utility to make sense, so you're paying tonnage for weapons and heat sinks that will only rarely ever be used, at the expense of things that are extremely important.

Sure, but now you get into questions of whether something is possible in-universe, compared to the tabletop rules.  I'm reminded of the Avatar, that had two hardwired medium lasers in the center torso, because the engineers "couldn't get it to work" for some reason, despite the fact that there's nothing in the game rules that should make it more complicated.

As I recall, the Quickdraw has a quirk allowing it to flip arms, even though it has lower arms and hands.  This is part of why it has vulnerable actuators, because of the exposed round "ball and socket" shoulder.  This would allow it to get 4 medium lasers into the rear arc.

This of course, makes you think "that's even more reason to mount the rear mediums on the arms".  And in game terms, you're right.  Maybe there's the chance of an actuator hit that keeps the arms from flipping, and so you want some dedicated weapons in the rear arc just in case?  Or maybe the flipping arms thing doesn't work as well if you're carrying 2 lasers in each arm.  Insert your preferred handwavium reasoning here.

Then there's another thing.  Mounting all 4 medium lasers so they could fire into the front arc would indeed give the mech the firepower of a heavy.  Of course, it still wouldn't have the armor of a heavy.  Perhaps hard-mounting the lasers in the rear actually increases the survivability of the mech, by preventing mechwarriors from rushing in and thinking they're in a Warhammer.  Or it could be that the Quickdraw is expected to shoot at targets all around it.  You fire 2 mediums into your rear arc, and 2 mediums plus an SRM-4 into your front.  Being reliant on torso twists could really hurt you if you've got multiple opponents in different arcs.

[massey]

The other thing about rear mounted lasers is that, if you are going bug hunting, are you doing it in JUST your Quickdraw, or as part of a larger formation? The danger from backstabbing attacks can be addressed by using proper formations & flank security (i.e. deploy the lance en echelon so that the mechs can give each other mutual support to guard against a backstab attack, but can quickly form up on a line to hammer anything they come in contact with).

Damon.

In larger numbers, the Quickdraw is fine.  Let's say you've got a lance of the machines.  4 LRM-10s is respectable long range firepower for a group of 5/8/5 jumpers.  You aren't exactly a fire support lance, but it's not bad.  Up close you've got 8 medium lasers and 4 SRM-4s.  Again, not overwhelming but it's okay given your movement profile.  Plus you can fire all your forward-mounted weapons at a cost of 1 heat.  Shoot the mediums and SRMs at the enemies who are close, and shoot the LRMs at the guys who are hanging back.

As it is, the Quickdraw can do 28 points of damage if it hits with all its forward-firing weaponry.  That's better than the Griffin or Wolverine (mechs that people love).  It's not Thunderbolt-level damage, but not much is.  A unit of Quickdraws is perfectly good, because you've got the speed to out maneuver heavier enemies so you'll always have a target for your LRMs.  So it doesn't really need help there.

If I were using Wasps and Stingers in a strategic sense, I would send small groups of them out as scouts and harassers.  2 or 3 mechs, at most a lance.  If my opponent sends a large force to hunt them down, that's great.  I'll let him chase those units around all day long.  That's where a lone hunter/killer mech comes in really handy.

[Arkansas Warrior]

4 LRM-10s is respectable long range firepower for a group of 5/8/5 jumpers.  You aren't exactly a fire support lance, but it's not bad.

Oddly, TRO 3039 says the QKD is intended as a replacement for the Rifleman.  That does help explain the terrible armor, but one LRM-10 on a firesupport/anti-aircraft mech?

[Sartris]

Oddly, TRO 3039 says the QKD is intended as a replacement for the Rifleman.  That does help explain the terrible armor, but one LRM-10 on a firesupport/anti-aircraft mech?

Salesman: check out this Rifleman replacement
Procurement officer: it’s worse
Salesman: but it’s newer!
Procurement officer: we’ll buy production through 3001

[Frabby]

I'm not touching the QKD with a 10-foot-pole.

It's not so much because it's a bad 'Mech. It undeniably is; but I am a fan of many quirky things including namely the UrbanMech, Rifleman and Charger. They all have something going for them when used properly.
Not so the Quickdraw.
In the case of the QKD the whole is somehow even less than the sum of its parts, however meager that sum already was. Even the Dragon is better, imho. And I find it difficult to pinpoint why exactly I'm so unsure what to do with this 'Mech.

It's not over-engined. Most 60-tonners have a 300 engine and it works wonders for the Ost-Mechs.

I think it boils down to what I call the Shadow Hawk problem: This 'Mech doesn't know what it wants to be, and I can't decide how to use it.
Under-gunned and under-armored is one thing, but on the QKD (and SHD) it is combined with and exacerbated by a weapons suite that doesn't fit the movement profile. They're neither stand-off/support platforms nor brawlers, and thus sit on the fence between not needing their mobility in the first place, and being unable to capitalize on it. No matter where you deploy one, it will always feel in the wrong place. The best use for their mobility is to run away.

(In the defense of the SHD, it looks cool and has good press in fluff. The QKD is just ugly.)

[Saint]

I find she makes a lot of sense for mercs in the early 3000s. Decent multirole unit with good speed and manuverability.

In TT play she's a team player, not a solo killer.

Not great but useful.

[Orin J.]

It's the "decoy, the boy target" of 'mechs. it's mobile enough to fit in most anywhere and and distracts people long enough when you're aiming for a crossup. It's also a good choice for when you're pretty sure you're gonna be caught by surprise in a campaign, since the real value of rear mounted lasers isn't being able to shoot behind you, it's being able to shoot behind you without blowing your main firepower's firing arcs.

[Kidd]

Oddly, TRO 3039 says the QKD is intended as a replacement for the Rifleman.  That does help explain the terrible armor, but one LRM-10 on a firesupport/anti-aircraft mech?

1 theory is that it replaced the Rifleman in the sense that the AA role was being shunted to vehicles; thus a trooper Mech might do better than an AA Mech pressed into the front line

somewhat plausible given the SLDF were at the tail end of the Amaris campaign and presumably needed every Mech they can get shooting at other Mechs

That's better than the Griffin or Wolverine (mechs that people love).

Heck, it IS better than the standard Shadow Hawk.

[Charistoph]

Honestly, I've never felt impressed by the Quickdraw.  It didn't have an interesting look to it, and it's weaponry was anemic in the missile department.

Oddly enough, it was someone playing a mission in the new Battletech PC game which made me look at it differently.  It was a mission to kill 3 generators within 17 turns.  Every time he tried to go at it with his heaviest weight of metal, he ran out of time.  His final lance ended up being 2 Quickdraws, a Black Knight, and an Orion.  The Quickdraws were his light cavalry, going out and providing quick punches to other targets and striving to get the quick kills on the generators.  He was able to complete the mission as well.

Now, these were all modified Mechs, but the Quickdraws still operated on the same Cavalry principles and often teamed up together to take down some of the harder targets.

Is the Quickdraw a good Cavalry Mech?  Possibly not, but it seems to be more effective at it then the Dragon would.

[JadedFalcon]

1 theory is that it replaced the Rifleman in the sense that the AA role was being shunted to vehicles; thus a trooper Mech might do better than an AA Mech pressed into the front line

somewhat plausible given the SLDF were at the tail end of the Amaris campaign and presumably needed every Mech they can get shooting at other MechsHeck, it IS better than the standard Shadow Hawk.

The other argument was that the last days of the Amaris war saw more urban combat, which the Quickdraw will perform better in than the Rifleman. Also starts to explain the interest in rear-firing weapons. And with the appropriate quirk to match the TRO descriptions, can't the Quickdraw aim four lasers into its rear arc?

[Alsadius]

Oddly enough, you gain a ton of available mass at 4/6/4 movement going from 55 tons to 60.  If you're gonna go 5/8/5 on a 60-tonner, though, I feel like you should max out its main advantage, which is armor mass.  The Quackdraw...doesn't.

Or the other advantage, the ability to punch someone's head off from a long way away with TSM. One of the variants(the -8X) does that, to be fair, but that's not in common use.

[The Eagle]

Oddly, TRO 3039 says the QKD is intended as a replacement for the Rifleman.  That does help explain the terrible armor, but one LRM-10 on a firesupport/anti-aircraft mech?

I addressed this in the MOTW article that was linuked to earlier.  My supposition is that losses incurred during the Amaris Civil War forced the SLDF to move RFLs from support units to line units, where their light armor and predominantly long range armament did them no favors.  The QKD replaced them in the line units, where their 360 degree guns and better close range firepower served them well, allowing the RFLs to go back to support units where they belong.

It's a hard Mech to like much less love.  The -5A is really the best of the Succession War bunch, I feel, because it's a decent duellist and brawler that likes working with Wolverines.

[Hellraiser]

Personally, I love the Quickdraw for its ability to be something that very few Heavies can be.  (And none in 3025)

At home in an all 585 or Faster moving Strike Company.

When your rolling up a RAT & You get a bunch of Lights/Mediums & there that 1 Heavy for the Company & you know its going to be some 460 mech that slows down the rest of the unit...... That is when I swap whatever I rolled for a Quickdraw.     Since you know you ended up getting a Quickdraw as one of the Heavies in your HeavyAssault lance & went DOH.

Sure its not a great mech, but it fills a role for me.

My favorite versions are the 3025 that flips the MLs & SRMs around, and in 3050 the C for its ability to be a mobile spotter, which wasn't a very common thing in early C3 units.

I don't have enough experience with later models to comment on them but those 2 are the most common ones I've used in the past.

[Daemion]

Honestly, I think you'll get better performance out of the Trebuchet.  Quickdraw is a good city fighter, though, and that fits what the Write-up says. Pairs will with the Whitworth. 

But, I'm not fond of the look. Needs a stetson on that head, and the Charger's pistol in each hand.  ^-^

[GermanSumo]

it is one of the mechs you get assigned to after sleeping with your commanders wife/daughter/girlfriend. nuff said  ::) ::) ::)

[Charistoph]

it is one of the mechs you get assigned to after sleeping with your commanders wife/daughter/girlfriend. nuff said  ::) ::) ::)

What do you do with a drunken 'Warrior?
What do you do with a drunken 'Warrior?
What do you do with a drunken 'Warrior, earlai in the mornin'?

[Wildonion]

I am surprised that such a vindictive commander would bother putting that MechWarrior into a heavy 'Mech. You'd think he would stick him in a Wasp and stick him on picket duty or long patrol routes. A heavy is still a heavy, especially in the days of the Succession Wars or even after the initial devastation of the Clan Invasion or Jihad.

[Sartris]

I am surprised that such a vindictive commander would bother putting that MechWarrior into a heavy 'Mech. You'd think he would stick him in a Wasp and stick him on picket duty or long patrol routes. A heavy is still a heavy, especially in the days of the Succession Wars or even after the initial devastation of the Clan Invasion or Jihad.

"And Major. Make sure his death looks like an incidental casualty. His luck will run out eventually"

[Vonshroom]

Rate: 8/10

Looking only at it pre 3050...

With this caveat everyone I play with agrees that before a match you can designate whether weapons are rear firing or you are going to swap them to forward firing. This greatly adds to its abilities. This is one of those mechs that was almost great. By losing that second ton of SRM ammo, you could have another ton of armor, etc. Personally I favor dropping the SRM and going for more armor and 2 more mediums.

The 5A goes the wrong direction in my opinion keeping the SRM, and getting rid of the LRMS for lasers and sinks. I'm kind of meh on this variant.

The stock Quickdraw however performs very well as a heavy cavalry mech. I would gladly take it over most of the variants of the 55 ton trio. Two hands, flippable arms, an extra ton of SRM ammo for infernos, jump jets... this thing has a good list of features for skirmishing and general ability. The problem is it needs be played like a medium. Mixed in with Ost mechs, more brawly mediums (like Wolverines) and Dragons it makes for a great mech. The LRM's allow it to focus on long targets, and its got the ability to smack stuff in close.

No you aren't going to want to use it for one on one duals, but as a lance member I think it makes an excellent mech. I used it as the ride of my CO for my mercenary / pirate campaign. At first I was like "wow a Quickdraw.." but I soon learned how to use it effectively. I have to say for a mercenary or pirate this thing makes an excellent choice. But its not a standalone mech.

[Arkansas Warrior]

 ???   What extra ton of SRM ammunition are you talking about?

[Crimson Dawn]

???   What extra ton of SRM ammunition are you talking about?

I think it is a reference to the 2 tons of SRM ammo and that unless you start using alternative ammo hat may be one ton too many.