Author Topic: Knights of Saint Cameron ? (Read 5676 times)

JAMES_PRYDE · « **on:** 30 August 2023, 09:23:28 »

I skimmed through the entry on Sarna, after reading a small bit about the sister on Jangso

Interesting read, was not sure where to post it

But quick question ? They are anti Clan, quiaff ?

"friendly" with the Scorpions, especially as ilClan develops ?

What would be their view on the Fusion States

Good with the ELH ?

Caesar Steiner for Archon · « **Reply #1 on:** 30 August 2023, 11:52:18 »

Quote from: JAMES_PRYDE on 30 August 2023, 09:23:28

They are anti Clan, quiaff ?

Based on the contracts they took, probably.

Quote

"friendly" with the Scorpions, especially as ilClan develops ?

No indication that they even know who they are. They haven't been seen since 3076.

Quote

What would be their view on the Fusion States

Hard to say. We really don't know anything about them after Mortimer Dewey took over, the dude's clearly got something sketchy going on behind the scenes. You don't get an infinite supply of money and gear for nothing.

Quote

Good with the ELH ?

Not sure they've ever worked together.

Overall they seem like some kind of mystery that someone was briefly interested in using during the early 2000s but never got followed up on, so they just disappeared during the Jihad and were never heard from again.

Kerfuffin(925) · « **Reply #2 on:** 30 August 2023, 13:00:41 »

I do really Hope we get some info on these guys. They are one of my favorite non-state actor groups. Mainly because of the mystery.

Mendrugo · « **Reply #3 on:** 30 August 2023, 13:15:52 »

Their parent organization, the Cult of the Saints Cameron, makes a cameo at the end of "No Substitute for Victory" in 3152 and is referenced in "A Ship Out of Time" in Shrapnel #13 circa 3152, so the Cult is still around, and could potentially resurrect the Knights if it felt the need for an armed wing to achieve its goals.

Metallgewitter · « **Reply #4 on:** 30 August 2023, 15:15:28 »

The funny part is when the Knights dissapeared they too the remnants of Archer's Avengers (the Thorin Milita) with them. I always wondered why they were so willing to leave to space unknown

Caesar Steiner for Archon · « **Reply #5 on:** 30 August 2023, 19:42:50 »

They wanted to expunge the inexplicable interest in a 19th century slaveowner insurrection even if they had to all die in unknown space to do it.

CJC070 · « **Reply #6 on:** 30 August 2023, 22:18:59 »

Quote from: Metallgewitter on 30 August 2023, 15:15:28

The funny part is when the Knights dissapeared they too the remnants of Archer's Avengers (the Thorin Milita) with them. I always wondered why they were so willing to leave to space unknown

With the loss of Archer Christifori they seemed to have lost a sense of purpose and it was close to five years before they disappeared with the Knight of St. Cameron.

JAMES_PRYDE · « **Reply #7 on:** 30 August 2023, 23:38:26 »

oh I meant the Cult more in my questions

But they would be the same as the Knights correct ?

Liam's Ghost · « **Reply #8 on:** 31 August 2023, 01:36:57 »

Quote from: Metallgewitter on 30 August 2023, 15:15:28

The funny part is when the Knights dissapeared they too the remnants of Archer's Avengers (the Thorin Milita) with them. I always wondered why they were so willing to leave to space unknown

Wait, they did?

Huh.

Kinda hints at a story hook that will remain abandoned for... reasons.

Metallgewitter · « **Reply #9 on:** 31 August 2023, 02:21:10 »

Quote from: Liam's Ghost on 31 August 2023, 01:36:57

Wait, they did?

Huh.

Kinda hints at a story hook that will remain abandoned for... reasons.

When the Knights returned from the Falcon front the remnants from Archer's Avengers decided to become mercenary (in this case joining the Knights). And later when the Knights suddenly packed up and left (I think that was near the end of the Jihad) the Avengers apparently left with them. At least there was no notice that they opted to stay in the IS

JAMES_PRYDE · « **Reply #10 on:** 31 August 2023, 08:09:49 »

Would it be fair to say that the Cult / Knights would, upon learning about the Scorpions and the ELH Genes in thier breeding programme, would they be open to it, or straight hostile ?

Would make for some good fiction

tassa_kay · « **Reply #11 on:** 31 August 2023, 11:08:03 »

Quote from: JAMES_PRYDE on 31 August 2023, 08:09:49

Would it be fair to say that the Cult / Knights would, upon learning about the Scorpions and the ELH Genes in thier breeding programme, would they be open to it, or straight hostile ?

They probably wouldn't care either way, honestly.

Mendrugo · « **Reply #12 on:** 31 August 2023, 11:20:28 »

The core element of the Knights, at least as most commonly presented, was that they were ideologically motivated mercenaries who often helped clients (at least those occupying the moral high ground) by providing their services for free.

The Cult of the Saints Cameron believed they could commune with the spirits of Mother Jocasta and other Camerons, and reputedly took their marching orders from the other side of the veil. Not sure if the Knights factored that aspect into their planning.

Of note, they apparently used exotic minerals as part of their seances, and several tons of that stuff just dropped into the Wolf Empire's lap, as of 3152.

Re: the Clan genetics - if it were ever to come out that Jennifer Winson was, in fact, the offspring of Richard Cameron, the Winson Bloodhouse might have some instant super-fans.

JAMES_PRYDE · « **Reply #13 on:** 31 August 2023, 11:59:52 »

Quote from: Mendrugo on 31 August 2023, 11:20:28

Re: the Clan genetics - if it were ever to come out that Jennifer Winson was, in fact, the offspring of Richard Cameron, the Winson Bloodhouse might have some instant super-fans.

I never knew this, interesting

Mendrugo · « **Reply #14 on:** 31 August 2023, 12:05:14 »

Quote from: JAMES_PRYDE on 31 August 2023, 11:59:52

I never knew this, interesting

Sources on this are in "Fall From Glory" and "Liberation of Terra". Liberation of Terra makes reference to accusations that Richard abused his sisters, and another sidebar mentioned that a trusted servant had fled into hiding with "the child Helena couldn't keep."

What do we find in Fall From Glory but a girl about Nicholas' age, living in hiding in Moscow, under an assumed name. Nick's mother recognizes the kid, and tells him to stay away from her.

Nothing super concrete, but the fact that she kept using a variety of assumed names as she joined the Exodus fleet and was one of the first ones extracted by the SLDF task force that dropped on Moscow, suggests that "Jes Cole" may, in fact, have been "the child Helena couldn't keep." That at least makes her a Cameron. If the allegations against Richard were true, that makes her Cameron on both sides of the (non-branching) family tree.

Colt Ward · « **Reply #15 on:** 31 August 2023, 15:08:19 »

We also do not know exactly who the actors were in that fiction with the . . . Merc KS? Malice & Redemption? Where two guys were working a WMD site to pull mechs out of the wreckage.

ShroudedSciuridae · « **Reply #16 on:** 01 September 2023, 22:52:08 »

The Knights/Cult gets even more rabbit holey when you take Pulsar into account, where the mother of a Clan Nova Cat founder prophesied Richard Cameron's murder.

In the end I'm sure it's just the devs having fun with the community's penchant for conspiracy theories just like with the Wolverines.

Rainbow 6 · « **Reply #17 on:** 16 September 2023, 11:51:48 »

Would be nice to see another one of the early mercenary companies make a come back in the IlClan era.

Didn't know that Archer's Avengers had taken the mercenary route either but i'd like to see them come back as well.

glitterboy2098 · « **Reply #18 on:** 17 September 2023, 21:15:13 »

bringing the Knights of St Cameron back would be interesting. especially if you could tie them into some greater movements that oppose an ilClan led version of the star league. i could see any faith that holds the Camerons and the league up as divine seeing the clan way as an anathema.

ANS Kamas P81 · « **Reply #19 on:** 17 September 2023, 21:49:18 »

That would be a hell of a time to reveal Jennifer Winston as a surviving Cameron, and her bloodname heritage being arguably her linear descendants to form a Cameron house.

BrianDavion · « **Reply #20 on:** 18 September 2023, 17:10:33 »

not that it matters the Wolves gave the Winston line to the Coyotes,

tassa_kay · « **Reply #21 on:** 18 September 2023, 17:13:28 »

Not that it would matter anyway because the Camerons and their realm are dead and gone and no one of any significance outside of the Clans (and I'd wager not even all of them) would care in the slightest. There's no claim to press.

Colt Ward · « **Reply #22 on:** 19 September 2023, 09:09:06 »

Quote from: BrianDavion on 18 September 2023, 17:10:33

not that it matters the Wolves gave the Winston line to the Coyotes,

They had two Winson lines, Jerome & Jennifer . . . Jennifers was given to the Coyotes yes, but nothing I can see says it was to be made their new exclusive- it also would not matter b/c of the coming divide. Both Winson Bloodhouses would also still be represented in the Warden Wolves.

Caesar Steiner for Archon · « **Reply #23 on:** 19 September 2023, 12:40:52 »

Quote from: ANS Kamas P81 on 17 September 2023, 21:49:18

That would be a hell of a time to reveal Jennifer Winston as a surviving Cameron, and her bloodname heritage being arguably her linear descendants to form a Cameron house.

If people were THAT desperate for a Cameron that they'd follow one no questions asked, wouldn't they have already pledged their loyalty to Regulus?

Colt Ward · « **Reply #24 on:** 19 September 2023, 13:17:19 »

I do not have the original League book- how far back does the 'cadet' branch go? Is it really a cadet?

Either way, Jen Winson's spawn would still be 'closer' to the last First Lord.

Elmoth · « **Reply #25 on:** 19 September 2023, 13:37:37 »

I think nobody wants a cameron. The OS moved away grom that to SOME people the SLDF period might be the desired benchmark, but saying tha this is a benchmark and that you would follow a Cameron is quite a stretch.
.

Caesar Steiner for Archon · « **Reply #26 on:** 20 September 2023, 13:20:01 »

Quote from: Colt Ward on 19 September 2023, 13:17:19

I do not have the original League book- how far back does the 'cadet' branch go? Is it really a cadet?

Either way, Jen Winson's spawn would still be 'closer' to the last First Lord.

The exact origin point of House Cameron-Jones isn't stated but they are specifically stated as being THOSE Camerons in HB:HM.

Quote from: Elmoth on 19 September 2023, 13:37:37

I think nobody wants a cameron. The OS moved away grom that to SOME people the SLDF period might be the desired benchmark, but saying tha this is a benchmark and that you would follow a Cameron is quite a stretch.

Yeah, for sure! My point was that nobody's that much of a slave to blood that they would just go "oh we sure did feel like the Clans were a perversion of the legacy of the Saints Cameron but now that we know they have a great-great-great-great-great-great-grandkid who's a Clanner all our prior beliefs on EVERYTHING are invalidated."

ShroudedSciuridae · « **Reply #27 on:** 28 September 2023, 21:24:01 »

Quote from: glitterboy2098 on 17 September 2023, 21:15:13

bringing the Knights of St Cameron back would be interesting. especially if you could tie them into some greater movements that oppose an ilClan led version of the star league. i could see any faith that holds the Camerons and the league up as divine seeing the clan way as an anathema.

They're coming back, or at least one chapter house worth of them. See No Substitute for Victory Epilogue. Though that does throw real world complications into the mix as that author is both no longer writing for BT, and really liked to throw red herrings (eg Clan Wolverine/The Clave) out there.

If visions are accurate , with the usual caveat that "there's no supernatural in BT," they're going to have a busy time fighting against "dragons and bears, hounds and birds." While the natural inclination will be the later two referring to Wolf and Jade Falcon it could also point to ARLC & FWL. That would mean all four factions referred to as potential opponents of Alaric

As for a Winston/Cameron revelation that could potentially shift the Knights to the ilClan camp if everything lines up correctly. Or in the spirit of balkanization divide the group up into even more hostile factions. Some discussion of that eventuality seems like it would fit nicely as For ilKhan's Eyes Only.

Frankly I can't wait to see what happens next in the metaplot. I haven't been this excited for releases since Twilight of the Clans rolled out.

Caesar Steiner for Archon · « **Reply #28 on:** 29 September 2023, 12:50:30 »

That's an awfully large disparity in power. Arc-Royal has a single mixed regiment of troops while the FWL is, y'know, a nation-state.

Starfury · « **Reply #29 on:** 01 October 2023, 09:53:03 »

They could easily end up in the Tamar March/former Jade Falcon OZ as that seems to be the new Chaos March for the ilClan era.