Author Topic: a little help from former military members  (Read 3463 times)

guardiandashi

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4828
a little help from former military members
« on: 06 October 2019, 13:20:02 »
so a little background I am currently trying to write a story involving a dogboy character (from rifts) with that said because I never served, I never went through boot camp/military training.

now obviously I wouldn't want any information that would be sensitive, and compromise anything.

but if I could get some overviews that I could use to help tell a better story, it would be appreciated.
part of what I am referencing is if you have access to it rifts world 13 (lone star) ~pg 27-29
a brief summary, they are considered mature by age 6, they spend a lot of time until age 2 in basic education and socialization type training.

at age 2 they move into training which is a 3 year program, that starts out as essentially a sports camp, or a year long boot camp with the first year and a half focusing on obedience, and physical training. the second year and a half of training is more focused on formal military training, use of weapons and equipment, marksmanship, wilderness survival, etc.

if it helps, the character ends up having: WP energy pistol, WP energy rifle, WP Heavy MD weapons, and WP sword. Field armorer, First aid, Parachuting, and Sniper skills and Hand to hand Martial Arts

if you have access to the coalition war campaign book (rifts world book 11) the character would have several badges, Marksman, Psi, Airborn.  I suspect first aid would not be nearly enough to qualify as a medic.

Matti

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5085
  • In Rory we trust
Re: a little help from former military members
« Reply #1 on: 06 October 2019, 14:37:41 »
I didn't serve either, but I'm sure there are tons of books and other material (movies) that detail whatever you're looking for. That said, those with military experience may be more qualified to provide recommendations, though I expect somebody would name something just to troll us.
You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

Daryk

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 37374
  • The Double Deuce II/II-σ
Re: a little help from former military members
« Reply #2 on: 06 October 2019, 14:41:40 »
If you haven't yet, read Old Man's War by John Scalzi.  That will give you some idea of what a trans-human "boot camp" could be like.

Nightlord01

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1559
Re: a little help from former military members
« Reply #3 on: 07 October 2019, 08:14:28 »
This is incredibly subjective, as in so subjective that real world experience is largely worthless. Think of who your target audience is, think of the message you want to send them, write your story to reflect this.

Is it a harsh regime, with impossible challenges to be met each and every day, with no rewards and unjust discipline? The kind that has washouts or casualties as an hourly occurrence? If so, I'd recommend Starship Troopers (Film and book, two very different perspectives) for inspiration. Of course there's also Full Metal Jacket for a real taste of bastardisation. :)

Is it a reasonably humane regime, with serious challenges and just rewards/discipline? Is military service desirable for one reason or another? If so then Starship Troopers (Book only this time) and the Frontlines novel Terms of Enlistment are good examples, as is the aforementioned Old Mans War.

If the regime goes beyond harsh, into dehumanising, then look no further than the movie Soldier, starring Kurt Russell.

Ultimately, for a squid, recruit school was pretty easy. There were some serious key points there though that most literature tends to gloss over, we don't think of them much either. It's all about mindset, and if you approach it that way things will make sense.

The very first week of training is pure shock, your old life is torn down with things as simple as rigidly structured meal, bath, bed times. We'd get up every morning at 0430, wakey wakey was piped at 0450 with PT at 0500, but only the first week recruits were in bed for wakey wakey. PT would be followed by rapid showers and dressing, with the entire school fallen in to march off to breakfast at 0610, cleaning stations at 0630. Parade was at 0700, classes started at 0730, usually with drill, sometimes with PT. When moving between 0700 and 1700, we were to be doubling (running in a formed squad). The entire school would form up again for lunch at 1115, back at lessons by 1200. These would carry on until 1700, at which point we could finally head to our blocks, get laundry done and be changed for dinner at 1800, where the school would again form up and march off. After dinner was cleaning stations at 1830, with rounds at 1900. From 1900 to 2200 our time was our own, to wash, iron, polish, relax, socialise at the club. Lights out was piped at 2200, with the block custodian performing a check to ensure we were all in bed.

Discipline is strict, with even small infractions pulled up sternly, no matter how hard you tried, you never got everything right, there was always issues with dress, conduct, attentiveness, knowledge etc, if it could be wrong, something was wrong with it. We couldn't even contact our families or leave recruit school, the Navy was strict about removing all outside contact. This was very deliberate to shear off our old lives, force us to look around us, rather than a thousand kilometres away for our support. Eventually each of us looked within ourselves and asked "WTF did I just get into?" For me it all manifested after the first week and a half, and I don't mind admitting that I broke down, but I formed lasting friendships with several of the others in my division.

After the shock wore off, recruit school ground on, intense physical exercise, constant running, push ups for nearly any error, most of the exercise was in the morning with classroom learning in the afternoon where many recruits fell asleep and were disciplined. I lost 20kg of hard earned weight in the three months of recruit school. All muscle gained in the gym and playing hockey including representing my state, I was less than impressed.

Pretty quickly we learned not to ask any questions, just do what the instructors told us to do and keep up with the team. It almost pains me to admit it, but I had great fun once I'd gotten over the shock, I'd found a life I didn't even realise I wanted. After four weeks we were allowed our first weekend leave, where we could head off into the nearest city and drink and be merry. We already had two pays built up (A pitiful amount of money, recruits are paid next to nothing), but we all managed to spend all of it in our own way. From that weekend on there as a textural? change, not sure how to phrase it, but we'd settled down to the grind and were now enjoying it. Discipline was still strict but largely self, rather than instructor, applied. The physical aspects hadn't gotten any harder, as the bar was set high on entry and kept there. The classroom aspects remained largely simplistic, although the training about battlefields and natural disasters was fairly horrid, seeing graphic images of people killed on the fields of battle or in typhoons wasn't pleasant.

On the whole, we were comfortable with the routine of getting up at 0430, PT at 0500, breakfast at 0630, parade at 0700 and so on.  We'd all realised that we were going to make it, those of us that wished to leave did so at day 70, by week eight the rest were going to graduate, nothing could stop that now. This lead to a relaxed and somewhat festive mood, for pretty much the last month. Everything was easy now, our bodies had reshaped themselves, the civilian had been beaten out of us. We couldn't wait to move on to our initial employment training and start actually learning about our future jobs. It wasn't the night before graduation but the entire week, that effectively became one long party, it didn't really register on me just how much the experience had changed me until I went home. I walked into my old room, looked around and decided this wouldn't do, for the next two hours I cleaned and cleaned, with my mother watching on in bemusement, she stepped in when I was heading off with the iron to do my sheets though. I didn't realise that she'd cleaned my room before picking me up from the airport, and she didn't realise what a clean freak recruit school had turned me into.

Hope this helps a bit. :)

Matti

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5085
  • In Rory we trust
Re: a little help from former military members
« Reply #4 on: 07 October 2019, 11:44:42 »
Discipline is strict, with even small infractions pulled up sternly, no matter how hard you tried, you never got everything right, there was always issues with dress, conduct, attentiveness, knowledge etc, if it could be wrong, something was wrong with it. We couldn't even contact our families or leave recruit school
I presume this is about USA Army? It's not like that everywhere. Here in Finland, my brother had undergone boot camp and he had his phone when I called him on one evening. Our mother had been worried for telling him to "have fun". So of course the first thing I asked was: "Have you had fun?" According to him, boot camp here nowadays if more relaxed than working in our farm. Likely wasn't the case when our father was there. Our father may have been more strict than drill instructors these days: when I was 15 or so (maybe younger), he told me to climb over to trailer from the side, on rainy day, with raincoat & pants on, without ladder or rope.
You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

glitterboy2098

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 12030
    • The Temple Grounds - My Roleplaying and History website
Re: a little help from former military members
« Reply #5 on: 07 October 2019, 12:00:57 »
The Coalition is basically Nazi Germany, only absent their merciful nature and sense of fair play. they use Dogboys as basically warrior-slaves, because dogboys are engineered beings they created, and dogboys have the ability to literally sniff out supernatural stuff the Coalition would otherwise find difficult to detect. they don't mistreat dogboysphysically but they do limit them to their military role and how far they can progress, and of course feed them propaganda that a subservient role is their appropriate lot in life. (but then the coalition feeds much the same propaganda to their own people.. a mix of nazi and orwellian is indicated)

about a third of Dogboys are cloned directly in artificial wombs, the rest are natural born as a result of a eugenics breeding program, but regardless of which source they came from their first years are in basically clan style Sibkos, as the pup's are taken from their mothers at birth and raised in communal fashion.. the idea being to remove any specific maternal ties between offspring and parent. like clan warriors they are basically raised to be soldiers from birth. (we aren't told what happens to any that fail to meet the physical requirements of the job.. presumably they'd either be 'put down' if young or sent to a forced labor unit if adult.)
« Last Edit: 07 October 2019, 12:12:49 by glitterboy2098 »

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28994
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: a little help from former military members
« Reply #6 on: 07 October 2019, 12:34:18 »
One of the biggest things to realize about a training regime like Basic/Boot Camp/whatever is that everything is done for a reason- it might not be obvious at the time, but it has a purpose that facilitates the end goal.  In the US exactly what happens during the Basic will depend on several things- 1st) time of year; 2nd) location; and 3rd) branch.  Easiest is time of year which is surprising for some, but IMO stricter Basic training happens during the summer and early fall for a simple reason- most of their intake is kids right out of school which requires remedial discipline.  When I got in the Army extended 'Initial Entry Training' by a week to start teaching recruits values under the an-acronym LDRSHIP (part of why I say its indoctrination) and you can say what you want about society, but the military's largest branch that trains thousands of individuals a year with the lowest recruitment standards for recruits decided they needed to specifically teach values by adding a week to the cycle.  But from what former drill sergeants and school instructors have said, they have to be stricter when dealing with recently graduated high schoolers than with cycles that have a lower percentage of 18/19 year olds.  Also in the US, where you go to Army Basic matters- three bases deal with combat arms MOS, get the most combat arms MOS recruits into their cycles, tend to have stricter/harder Basics . . . Forts Benning (Bendover is the only knickname I ever heard), Knox (Hard Knox), Sill (Silly) are the combat arms MOS training sites (infantry/armor/artillery) and are considered harder than say Ft Jackson (Relaxin' Jackson), Ft Leonardwood (Lost In The Woods), and whatever the other one/two maybe that I do not remember.  Not sure it matters with the Marines, they have E/W coast sites and divide the country.  Finally, its determined by branch . . . Marines are considered the toughest (13 weeks?), Army next (9 weeks), Navy (6? 7?), and finally Air Force . . . lots of Air Force jokes, but they are the most selective in recruiting- funny, how selective they are in recruiting is nearly the reverse order though the Marines & Army swap.

Most of the 'training' is indoctrination followed by training and familiarization.  A lot of it was based on practical psychological understanding that they later developed reasons for . . . to be honest, if we ever did away with some of the social engineering that has crept in and instead went for a hardcore psych/social tuned course it could get scary results.  The US Marines are a mild example of such indoctrination- look at the way they refer to themselves ('former Marine' only 2 ex-Marines, and they were damn good shots) and how they have their own cultural sub-sets; not just US culture but also from US military culture.  Some of the problems with indoctrination has been explored in various sci-fi franchises . . . someone else mentioned 'Old Man's War' series, and its hard to go wrong with that- especially if you look at the 2nd book which covers the Terran special forces.  But then you have stuff like Space Above & Beyond's tanks or the problems inherent in highly indoctrinated troops that basically are a weapon system like in Russell's Soldier movie.

Ian Douglas (heh) USMC series touches on a bit when they are using slower-than-light travel with Marine deployments, troops literally return home to find a new world and have quite a few problems adjusting to rejoining society.

I think you might want to really look at SAAB's tanks and what they posit'd there . . . for a historical example, I suggest looking at the Turk's Janisaries.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Matti

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5085
  • In Rory we trust
Re: a little help from former military members
« Reply #7 on: 07 October 2019, 12:58:26 »
and finally Air Force . . . lots of Air Force jokes
There's also lots of jokes about British generals ("fighting lions led by donkeys"), but do you know how many of them were KIA in First World War? 80! (if Lindybeige is to be believed and my memory doesn't fail)
You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

Ogra_Chief

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 405
Re: a little help from former military members
« Reply #8 on: 07 October 2019, 13:31:14 »
What no love for HALO? Most of the mini-stories detailing John's indoctrination would be good fodder. Also, "Forward Unto Dawn," for the final year and sessions. Great suggestions all around, I'd throw in John Steakley's 'Armor' in there as well, for a little battlefield, 'self-indoctrination,' after the first taste of combat.

Russell's 'Soldier' movie is an underrated gem, with a better director it could have told a powerful story.

Air Force Basic tends to be more psychological (reads stress), and only ramps-up if the Flight is unable to come together, if they do then the pressure remains constant but manageable; which is the point. 
BattleTech @CGL_BattleTech · Jul 17
Harmony Gold no longer has any say in our decisions, however, the original mechs have been redesigned enough to not cause problems.

Matti

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5085
  • In Rory we trust
Re: a little help from former military members
« Reply #9 on: 07 October 2019, 13:58:49 »
What no love for HALO? Most of the mini-stories detailing John's indoctrination would be good fodder.
There's whole novel for that, and I have read it. I don't remember title though.
You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28994
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: a little help from former military members
« Reply #10 on: 07 October 2019, 14:00:08 »
Most of what I sourced was the indoctrination and training of the 'forced' trainees. 

For a general look . . while I loved Armor you did not really see his training.  A good chunk of Starship Troopers on the other hand was about the training, particularly the psychology from the inside.

When I went through Army Basic, I felt it seemed to intentionally de-emphasis mental stress which felt like a mistake.  I remember looking across the hilltop at one guy freaking out over some minor detail while were on the field exercise and quite happy I was not going to have to go into combat with him.  To be honest, I think that is why there is hazing (no matter that its not allowed) in units because it allows the guys who are going to have to depend on you to test your responses- are you going to quit?  you going to cry to higher? or you going to give crap back?  My buddies and I got ready to invade Iraq in '03 and one of the FNG a year or so later complained that he felt like a outsider.  Well yeah, your the FNG and I do not know I can depend on you like the other guys- too bad, deal with it until you prove you can be depended on.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Matti

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5085
  • In Rory we trust
Re: a little help from former military members
« Reply #11 on: 07 October 2019, 14:13:27 »
To be honest, I think that is why there is hazing (no matter that its not allowed) in units because it allows the guys who are going to have to depend on you to test your responses- are you going to quit?  you going to cry to higher? or you going to give crap back?  My buddies and I got ready to invade Iraq in '03 and one of the FNG a year or so later complained that he felt like a outsider.  Well yeah, your the FNG and I do not know I can depend on you like the other guys- too bad, deal with it until you prove you can be depended on.
FNG = ???
Otherwise after reading that, some things are starting to make more sense. Though I still have a feeling protagonist in Poor man's fight got too much BS from frigate's crew, who themselves were too lax in some things (weapon checks)
You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28994
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: a little help from former military members
« Reply #12 on: 07 October 2019, 14:48:21 »
Fracking New Guy

Well, some of the practical jokes also feed the dark side . . . heck, I got a guy who was excused on a Friday of a 3 day FTX to go ask admin for a ID10T form, told him we all did it at the Armory before going into the field.  But stuff like towel or brillo parties happen for a reason.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Nightlord01

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1559
Re: a little help from former military members
« Reply #13 on: 07 October 2019, 17:46:48 »
I presume this is about USA Army? It's not like that everywhere. Here in Finland, my brother had undergone boot camp and he had his phone when I called him on one evening. Our mother had been worried for telling him to "have fun". So of course the first thing I asked was: "Have you had fun?" According to him, boot camp here nowadays if more relaxed than working in our farm. Likely wasn't the case when our father was there. Our father may have been more strict than drill instructors these days: when I was 15 or so (maybe younger), he told me to climb over to trailer from the side, on rainy day, with raincoat & pants on, without ladder or rope.

No that was from the Royal Australian Navy, 23 years ago. :) The two are descended from the Royal forces model, though, so there's a common lineage.

From what I understand nowadays they are a little more relaxed, but not greatly. The fundamental purpose of any recruit school is to break down who you were, and turn you into who they, and by extension you in an all volunteer force, want you to be. Conscripted forces tend to be somewhat similar, but penal forces are altogether different.

idea weenie

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4883
Re: a little help from former military members
« Reply #14 on: 07 October 2019, 18:39:51 »
Fracking New Guy

Well, some of the practical jokes also feed the dark side . . . heck, I got a guy who was excused on a Friday of a 3 day FTX to go ask admin for a ID10T form, told him we all did it at the Armory before going into the field.  But stuff like towel or brillo parties happen for a reason.

The other fun is one morning when you send the new guy off in a search for a bottle of blinker fluid.  About 8 hours later they come back with visine or similar, since they spent the rest of the day goofing off

beachhead1985

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4077
  • 1st SOG; SLDF. "McKenna's Marauders"
    • Kilroy's Wall
Re: a little help from former military members
« Reply #15 on: 07 October 2019, 18:52:46 »
My 0.02 as an ex-instructor is this:

Training any non-human would vary greatly from the human boot camp experience.

Secondly; I have not seen the RPG yet that come close to assigning a starting character even access to the basic array of skills a soldier would have, even after basic, let alone their trades course.
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

Matti

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5085
  • In Rory we trust
Re: a little help from former military members
« Reply #16 on: 07 October 2019, 22:42:37 »
Secondly; I have not seen the RPG yet that come close to assigning a starting character even access to the basic array of skills a soldier would have, even after basic, let alone their trades course.
Do you know GURPS (Generic Universal Role-Playing System)? Though basic rule books don't assign characters anything and player/GM has to do it with whatever points and restrictions GM has decided.
You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

beachhead1985

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4077
  • 1st SOG; SLDF. "McKenna's Marauders"
    • Kilroy's Wall
Re: a little help from former military members
« Reply #17 on: 07 October 2019, 23:12:58 »
Do you know GURPS (Generic Universal Role-Playing System)? Though basic rule books don't assign characters anything and player/GM has to do it with whatever points and restrictions GM has decided.

Yes and the points cost ammounts to the same thing as *not* doing it, especially with how GURPS handles skills in such a granular manner.

It's been years, but I ran a Twilight-2000 campaign on GURPS rules. I can't even remember the point values or even how big the character sheets were, but it was brutal.
Epitaph on an Army of Mercenaries

These, in the day when heaven was falling,      Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
The hour when earth's foundations fled,         They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
Followed their mercenary calling,               What God abandoned, these defended,
And took their wages, and are dead.             And saved the sum of things for pay.
     
A.E. Housman

Nightlord01

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1559
Re: a little help from former military members
« Reply #18 on: 08 October 2019, 03:25:24 »
The other fun is one morning when you send the new guy off in a search for a bottle of blinker fluid.  About 8 hours later they come back with visine or similar, since they spent the rest of the day goofing off

Plenty of more senior members found out that I'm pretty quick on my mental feet. I never bothered to go and goof off or anything of the sort, and a couple of their schemes did manage to trap me, but I'd made friends with plenty of other sailors who all regaled me with tales of the various ways of messing with the uninitiated. The efforts stopped very quickly, as I caught onto all the schemes, and could predict when it was just someone having a go.

My favourite was when I was ordered to go and get a long wait from the COMCEN for an Oscar flotation test. The look on his face when I asked "How long, 10 or 15 minutes?" was priceless. Especially when they'd spent nearly 10 minutes detailing the background and task to try and suck me in.


ANS Kamas P81

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13235
  • Reimu sees what you have done.
Re: a little help from former military members
« Reply #19 on: 08 October 2019, 04:31:09 »
My favourite was when I was ordered to go and get a long wait from the COMCEN for an Oscar flotation test. The look on his face when I asked "How long, 10 or 15 minutes?" was priceless. Especially when they'd spent nearly 10 minutes detailing the background and task to try and suck me in.
My dad mentioned stories about suckering new sailors aboard Jason back in the day with putting them on mail buoy watch, complete with the ship's big eyes and one very, very long catch-hook.  Or hunting bilge-rats, with rifle, pistol, flashlight, scuba gear, body armor, and all of that and then sending the poor swabbie into the ship's bilges...

...all of six inches deep.
Der Hölle Rache kocht in meinem Herzen,
Tod und Verzweiflung flammet um mich her!
Fühlt nicht durch dich Jadefalke Todesschmerzen,
So bist du meine Tochter nimmermehr!

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28994
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: a little help from former military members
« Reply #20 on: 08 October 2019, 09:32:28 »
Sent a whiny FNG, who was sleeping in the track and warned that he should get his sleep the night before rather than passing out immediately in the field, to get a box of grid squares from Supply to set up the HQ map.  Supply sent him to Admin, Admin sent him to 1SG . . . he then stomped back into the track to whine . . . his web gear hooked the handle of the glass coffee pot that was set up on the metal bench behind the work stations.  All the yelling for him to halt, stop, don't move! came to nothing since his web gear dragged it off the bench . . . to fall to the deck plating on Friday morning in the field before the coffee had even been run to refill the section chief (let alone section), Battery Commander, XO, 1SG, and Admin/Ammo chief cups.  It was a long weekend for the coffee dependents and the whiny FNG, who stayed short of sleep.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

CapricornNoble

  • Corporal
  • *
  • Posts: 64
Re: a little help from former military members
« Reply #21 on: 08 October 2019, 11:31:58 »
We had an FNG help us take an "exhaust sample" from one of the 5-tons.

"Put this black trash bag over the exhaust pipe while we run the engine, then close it real tight! Bring it inside to the Platoon Sergeant."

I also remember during Basic, this particular recruit was called up to the desk by the Platoon Sergeant....our "class clown" decides to squawk out "caw caw".
Platoon Sergeant: "WHY DID YOU MAKE THAT SOUND?!"
Platoon Clown: "Because he's a Blue Falcon Drill Sergeant."

Ugh. He smoked the sh*t outta us for that......good times.

Anyways, more on topic......in addition to the previous recommendation of Starship Troopers, I would add Gates of Fire. It goes deep into the psychology of warfare, the importance of unit cohesion, and the importance of exhausting, demanding training. If you are going to give them a year-long boot camp, watch some videos on Special Forces Qualification Course, which is roughly a year long. This channel in particular has a ton of informative vids (pretty sure he's a retired SF Officer who's done practically every insanely-difficult course the Army has): https://youtu.be/2M6EjGjWF5g

But really, if you are dealing with genetically engineered canine soldiers.....I wouldn't stress TOO much about mapping their training to a realistic human training regime either.

Matti

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5085
  • In Rory we trust
Re: a little help from former military members
« Reply #22 on: 08 October 2019, 12:47:39 »
My recommendation is The Complete Hammer's Slammers. Author, David Drake, is veteran himself, Slammers is based on his own experiences of war, and he has got praise from other veterans and writers alike.
You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28994
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: a little help from former military members
« Reply #23 on: 08 October 2019, 13:13:01 »
Its pretty good, you can definitely get the Vietnam vibe (wonder who will be writing with the Afghan/Iraq vibe) but it does not cover training environments very often.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Matti

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 5085
  • In Rory we trust
Re: a little help from former military members
« Reply #24 on: 08 October 2019, 16:21:49 »
Its pretty good, you can definitely get the Vietnam vibe (wonder who will be writing with the Afghan/Iraq vibe) but it does not cover training environments very often.
Point. But Under the hammer looks like good take on someone fresh out of boot/basic.
You know what they say, don't you? About how us MechWarriors are the modern knights errant, how warfare has become civilized now that we have to abide by conventions and rules of war. Don't believe it.

R.Tempest

  • Sergeant
  • *
  • Posts: 197
Re: a little help from former military members
« Reply #25 on: 08 October 2019, 22:05:39 »
 I think that basic would be almost unnecessary. One of the main points of it is to nullify, or at least reduce, the normal civilian responses to the pressure and violence of combat. With the engineered soldiers being taken into training as soon as they're weened there isn't a veneer of normal society to be suppressed.
 Of course that leads to what happens to any of them that live to retire. They've never been civilized (or housebroken if you will). Kind of remind me of Jem'hadar from DS9.

glitterboy2098

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 12030
    • The Temple Grounds - My Roleplaying and History website
Re: a little help from former military members
« Reply #26 on: 09 October 2019, 00:37:40 »
the game doesn't address what happens to Dogboys past their prime.. they reach physical maturity at age 6 and can live to be 32-45 years old, so any that don't die in combat certainly would hit a physical decline after their twenties. the Coalition only has had the facilities that create them for about 38 years though, and the dogboys themselves for only about thirty, so odds are they are only getting their first wave of elderly veterans. my own guess would be those vet's that survived to get that old would be rotated back to train the younger generations.

honestly, the entire thing has a real Clan Sibko vibe, now that i think about.

Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28994
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: a little help from former military members
« Reply #27 on: 09 October 2019, 09:20:50 »
Well, one really important thing is when you rotate a troop out to become a trainer.

The Clans system degraded into becoming a trainer being a punishment.  Ideally you want to communicate lessons line troops have learned to the next wave of replacements (sometimes it seems, for all the good it does) so they have a higher survival rate when put on the line.  I think the most common example here was US air forces vs German or Japanese practices.  IMO for a initial trainer cycle should give the trainers a time to stand down from the stress/action of being on the lines since I would guess these troops would be moved to action rather than sitting around in garrison- if they were sitting in garrison it would be waiting for the shoe to drop.  So 3 or 4 tours, exceptional soldiers rotate back to be a trainer for a few cycles while most trainers are going to have been serving for 6-8 years before they rotate back to train replacements.

I think you set up 3 tiers of these troops . . . first tier is your newest troops with NCOs & officers that can best train, these are going to be your follow on elements.  Not necessarily the first into battle, but they are pretty close.  Next would be your crack units, the elite of these special soldiers- they have the best combat NCOs & officers (note, this is different than trainers)- and will lead the way in most offensives.  Finally would be your solahma troops . . . the survivors who have trained their replacements (and in some cases would train their replacements) and seen action on multiple worlds that will lead any assaults when they are able to participate in combat.

Any of the dogboys that reach 25-28?  Muster out to be settled on a colonial frontier- they will prepare the way for normal humans to settle and build on what they do.

Btw, one thing you did not address . . . are they all male?  only males serve? . . . I mean for some RP fun you could make females neo-Spartan females, cut the ratio and when they 'retire' they end up with a female of their species on that frontier (a little social engineering helps set up the matches, especially if the females hold the property) and any offspring end up in the creches.

Do they have their own NCOs?  Officers?
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

CrossfirePilot

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2251
Re: a little help from former military members
« Reply #28 on: 09 October 2019, 10:27:24 »
What no love for HALO?

Yes, you could name your guy Griff and have him ask "you ever wonder why we're here?"

guardiandashi

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 4828
Re: a little help from former military members
« Reply #29 on: 09 October 2019, 21:31:13 »
according to the lone star book pg 24-27
70% of dogboys are male 30% are female
of the females 50% are "breeders" and nursemaids
paragraph about the breeds, most are "working dogs and hounds" workers include German Shepard, Doberman, Boxer, Bullmastif, Rotweiler, Akita, Malamute, and New foundland (the latter represents 50% of the dogboys in the CS navy)

Average life spans Male 32-45 years a full 64% will die violently in the line of duty. the average number of years in service (starting at age 6 ) is 26.5
Females 45-55 years the oldest recorded female lived to 69 but 50 is average, only 20% die violently in the line of duty

Temperaments: varies with breed and genetic coding

birth notes 1d4 young, and then gives numbers for percentages for 1-6

the breeders typically have a litter every 18 to 24 months
gestation is five and a half to six months
they are born blind and deaf, eyes open at 12-15 days old  newborns are taken from the mothers and put in a nursery of 15-20 young about 20 days after birth (around the time they start crawling)

the birth mothers are usually actively involved in raising young, but usually assigned to another nursery and may never see them again the idea being they will focus on all the pups not just hers.

young reach full physical maturity at 2.5 years and females can give birth at 3 but usually don't have young before 5 to allow for emotional maturity.

Male dogboys don't emotionally mature until age 5 or 6 and females around age 4 to 5 resulting in them being easily distracted, a bit hyper, curious, careless, overconfident, and constantly looking for "action"

they have a "program" for initial training and socialization from the time they can see until they are two years old

when they are two years old they transfer into the 3 years of physical and military training already mentioned.

 

Register