Author Topic: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!  (Read 252249 times)

Kidd

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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #780 on: 09 November 2017, 06:29:16 »
How about some JMSDF love?


Wrangler

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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #781 on: 09 November 2017, 07:16:22 »
Battleship / Carrier Hyuga in 1945 and water logged.


In better times in 1943 after her refit.
« Last Edit: 09 November 2017, 07:18:16 by Wrangler »
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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #782 on: 09 November 2017, 08:52:34 »
I have to wonder how much they made leasing out office space in that high rise...
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DaveMac

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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #783 on: 09 November 2017, 10:18:38 »
Would just post the picture but I'm rubbish at this sort of thing

Ones to look at are Numbers Nine and Ten...

http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=65945
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Kidd

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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #784 on: 09 November 2017, 13:22:45 »
Would just post the picture but I'm rubbish at this sort of thing

Ones to look at are Numbers Nine and Ten...

http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=65945
here let me help you with that

Pic from USS Essex of a kamikaze squarely hitting USS Enterprise's forward aircraft lift. Okinawa, 1945.





Another view. Yes, that IS the lift platform rocketing upward.

« Last Edit: 09 November 2017, 13:24:51 by Kidd »

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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #785 on: 09 November 2017, 13:42:13 »
...ow. #P
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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #786 on: 09 November 2017, 14:40:27 »
here let me help you with that

Pic from USS Essex of a kamikaze squarely hitting USS Enterprise's forward aircraft lift. Okinawa, 1945.





Another view. Yes, that IS the lift platform rocketing upward.



Much appreciated matey

And thanks for adding the context

Awful times for all involved...
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DoctorMonkey

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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #787 on: 10 November 2017, 06:53:30 »
I'm amazed that (Wikipedia reports at least) apparently less than 100 men killed and wounded from that


I don't mean to minimise the horror but would not have been surprised if hundreds had been killed
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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #788 on: 10 November 2017, 07:15:54 »
I'm amazed that (Wikipedia reports at least) apparently less than 100 men killed and wounded from that


I don't mean to minimise the horror but would not have been surprised if hundreds had been killed
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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #789 on: 10 November 2017, 07:36:42 »
Such a horrible blast from the Enterprise. I think that was the won that put it out of commission for the rest of the war.
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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #790 on: 10 November 2017, 07:48:29 »
USS Franklin took pretty bad hits during the war too.

I was fortunate have a shop teacher who told us stories of WW2, including he was a crew member of a escorting destroyer to task force that included the Franklin.  It was pretty horrible from what i remember him telling me.



EDIT: I forgot to mention the USS Santa Fe (CL-60) is along side her to help put the fire out. 
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DaveMac

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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #791 on: 10 November 2017, 08:34:15 »
USS Franklin took pretty bad hits during the war too.

I was fortunate have a shop teacher who told us stories of WW2, including he was a crew member of a escorting destroyer to task force that included the Franklin.  It was pretty horrible from what i remember him telling me.



EDIT: I forgot to mention the USS Santa Fe (CL-60) is along side her to help put the fire out.

"Official Navy casualty figures for the 19 March 1945 fire totaled 724 killed and 265 wounded. Nevertheless, casualty numbers have been updated as new records are discovered. A recent count by Franklin historian and researcher Joseph A. Springer brings total 19 March 1945 casualty figures to 807 killed and more than 487 wounded. Franklin had suffered the most severe damage and highest casualties experienced by any U.S. fleet carrier that survived World War II"

Just awful

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JadeHellbringer

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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #792 on: 10 November 2017, 10:15:41 »
One of the things that I find interesting in the Pacific War is how tough American ships had become by the end of the war- not just the ships, but more importantly the crews' ability to deal with major damage. Look at the first year of the war, the kind of damage that put down the Lexington, the Northampton, etc. - and then compare it to late war incidents like the Franklin. A much newer ship, for sure, but that kind of damage would have been fatal a few years earlier.

Interestingly, old ships became much tougher as the war went on- not just thanks to modifications, but the crew. The torpedo that crippled the battleship Pennsylvania late in the war nearly sank her, but the crew managed to fight to keep her afloat and get her home. It's interesting to wonder if she'd have survived a hit like that in mid-1942. The ship itself hadn't changed all that much in terms of protection- but the damage control skills of the crew certainly had.

Something to consider: In 1942, the Lexington, Yorktown, Wasp, and Hornet were all lost, with Saratoga and Enterprise surviving (and both being beat up a few times that year). By the end of the war, the only other American aircraft carrier lost from the blue-water navy was the Princeton (I'm excluding CVEs since they were basically merchant hulls with flat tops). That's it. As the war progressed, the kamikaze became a factor, and Japan became more and more desperate in their attacks, the only carrier to actually sink was Princeton. Many were hit, some crippled, but none actually lost. No American battleship was lost following Pearl Harbor, despite a few that suffered major damage (Pennsylvania, North Carolina, etc.) It's quite the feat, really- hurting an American ship was one thing, but actually sinking it had become all but impossible.
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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #794 on: 10 November 2017, 15:14:23 »
American damage control was pretty much second to none.  The USN also learned a lot of painful lessons early on.  The loss of the USS Lexington for example was caused by fuel vapor leaking into her hangar and then ignighting in a fuel air explosion.  The fuel had leaked down from her aircraft fuelling system that ran across the top of the hangar.

The USS Yorktown's damage control teams then started the habit of purging the fuel lines with nitrogen when an enemy was incoming, and this became standard practice on USN carriers immediately.  And it probably saved the USS Yorktown from a nasty hangar fire at Midway.  They also learned from the loss of the Wasp and the torpedoing of the North Carolina (from the same salvo that claimed the Wasp) and kept on applying what it learned.

This was a marked difference from the IJN who didn't place anywhere near the same emphasis on damage control as the USN.  ON a USN Warship, EVERYONE was expected to be able to help with the damage control and had recived suitable training to a greater or lesser degree in this regard.  With the IJN, they had far smaller numbers of trained damage control teams, and it was these teams that were expected to do all the damage control duties. 
The IJN also placed a far heavier emphasis on its junior officers, with them having to do the jobs of what a senior sailor would do on a US or UK warship of the period. 

Combine this with ships that tended to be built rather light and the IJN ships were generally rather more fragile than their USN opponents and they didn't really get a chance to learn from their losses due to heavy casualties.

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I am Belch II

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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #795 on: 10 November 2017, 16:40:04 »
The ships and the crew have become very tough and better designed over the years. The Franklin was the only ship not to be fully repaired after WW2 as WW2 ended right after. I think the wooden flight decks were a great and terrible thing. The wooden decks were easy to be repaired and didnt need a full shipyard to repair, but the amount of damage to them was so much.

The Yorktown was mostly repaired in a short time between Coral Sea and Midway that surprised Japan.
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HobbesHurlbut

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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #796 on: 10 November 2017, 17:31:27 »
The ships and the crew have become very tough and better designed over the years. The Franklin was the only ship not to be fully repaired after WW2 as WW2 ended right after. I think the wooden flight decks were a great and terrible thing. The wooden decks were easy to be repaired and didnt need a full shipyard to repair, but the amount of damage to them was so much.

The Yorktown was mostly repaired in a short time between Coral Sea and Midway that surprised Japan.
Better that they never followed the British's Armored Carrier concept.
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DaveMac

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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #797 on: 11 November 2017, 06:24:41 »
Better that they never followed the British's Armored Carrier concept.

Different navy and different reasons

http://www.armouredcarriers.com/
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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #798 on: 11 November 2017, 07:34:42 »

USS Franklin's damage report drawing
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Nightlord01

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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #799 on: 11 November 2017, 08:15:54 »

USS Franklin's damage report drawing

That's actually not that bad. Sure the fire is huge, unbelievably so, but over all it's fairly localised and is all about managing people and air. The issue would be how graceful the initial evacuation of the damaged areas was, and the presence of fire main. All of her power, fire pumps and de-watering pumps would likely be intact, and all of the portable DC equipment forward would still be intact, so it becomes an issue of containment and letting it burn out/actively fighting the fire.

HMS Nottingham's DC board after her grounding shows a much grimmer picture in terms of ships survivability. (Attached)



I am Belch II

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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #800 on: 11 November 2017, 09:17:33 »
Wow that is a lot of damage.
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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #802 on: 13 November 2017, 08:30:35 »
Carrier Strike Group 11
USS Nimitz (CVN-68) Nimitz
Destroyer Squadron 9
USS Princeton (CG-59) Ticonderoga
USS Howard (DDG-83) Arleigh Burke
USS Shoup (DDG-86) Arleigh Burke
USS Pinckey (DDG-91) Arleigh Burke
USS Kidd (DDG-100) Arleigh Burke

Carrier Strike Group 9 consist of the Following
USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN-71) Nimitz
Destroyer Squadron 23
USS Bunker Hill (CG-52) Ticonderoga
USS Halsey (DDG-97) Arleigh Burke
USS Sampson (DDG-102) Arleigh Burke
USS Preble (DDG-88) Arleigh Burke

Carrier Strike Group 5 consist of the following:
USS Ronald Regan (CVN-76) Nimitz
Destroyer Squadron 15
USS Shiloh- (CG-67) Ticonderoga
USS Barry (DDG-52) Arleigh Burke
USS John S. McCain (DDG-56) Arleigh Burke (This ship is currently out for repairs for damage that was caused in the summer. Not a part of the fleet)
USS Campbell (DDG-) Arleigh Burke
USS Mustin (DDG-89) Arleigh Burke

Not shown: up to a half dozen Los Angeles or Virginia class, JMSDF Hyuuga and Ashigara and their escorts, and an Australian detachment.

This is, I should add, all of the US flattops in service right now.  That's a huge concentration of capability.
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DoctorMonkey

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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #803 on: 13 November 2017, 08:31:39 »
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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #804 on: 13 November 2017, 11:03:05 »
HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Dragon take to the sea
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https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,20515.0.html - Part 1

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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #805 on: 13 November 2017, 11:03:39 »
HMS Queen Elizabeth and HMS Dragon in port
My three main Alternate Timeline with Thanks fan-fiction threads are in the links below. I'm always open to suggestions or additions to be incorporated so if you feel you wish to add something feel free. There's non-canon units, equipment, people, events, erm... Solar Systems spread throughout so please enjoy

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,20515.0.html - Part 1

https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,52013.0.html - Part 2

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Sabelkatten

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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #806 on: 13 November 2017, 11:38:21 »
Nice piece of nose art! ;)

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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #807 on: 13 November 2017, 12:53:25 »
Its so surprising to me that Dragon been able retain that ship tattoo.  I figured the boring bean counters or rules lawyers would make them conform to regulations.
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Re: Naval Pictures Forecastle: Laying siege to the poop deck!
« Reply #809 on: 13 November 2017, 17:24:09 »
The one...the only...(OK, there are actually three of them)


 

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