Author Topic: 'Mech Engineer Quest  (Read 44870 times)

Daryk

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #60 on: 14 November 2015, 17:05:06 »
I wouldn't split the team by choice, but if we're forced to, I don't see how to do it without either splitting up the University team (who might object, given how they applied), or doing it the way I proposed.  Although... now that I think about it, the University team might just be willing to "split" up to work on two designs.  We could then rely on their natural team work to cross-pollinate between the two (jumping large laser armed machines being relatively similar in the first place).

Budget-wise, I wouldn't expect to be able to hire more than one of the 27-year veterans.  Is that correct?

Warclaw

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #61 on: 14 November 2015, 17:13:32 »
My preference would be for Niklos and Sandoval.

As for the first design....I was thinking we should be doing the Trooper mech.  The basic unit that every other design will be intended to support or cover weak spots of.

As this is intended to be the first mech design produced domestically, I was thinking that we should first concentrate on the one likely to be produced in the most numbers, as well as being the most generalist.  We can look at more specialist designs once the basic unit is ready to go.

Daryk

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #62 on: 14 November 2015, 19:30:18 »
I agree with Warclaw... if we only have to do one project, the Trooper is the one to go for.

Vehrec

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #63 on: 15 November 2015, 08:29:59 »
I wouldn't split the team by choice, but if we're forced to, I don't see how to do it without either splitting up the University team (who might object, given how they applied), or doing it the way I proposed.  Although... now that I think about it, the University team might just be willing to "split" up to work on two designs.  We could then rely on their natural team work to cross-pollinate between the two (jumping large laser armed machines being relatively similar in the first place).

Budget-wise, I wouldn't expect to be able to hire more than one of the 27-year veterans.  Is that correct?

...I think you can hire more than four people for your battemech design team.  You're on a budget and you're under pressure to win a contract, but it's not like the company lacks for assets.  The prototype is going to be built on spec after all-and then six more times.  Nor is it as if these people are exactly golden gods of the design world.  They have lots of experience maintaining Mechs and doing patch jobs and quick fixes, but their actual design experience is 0 days.  Many of them have obtained engineering related degrees, but actually using them to create something new instead of making do inside an existing design?  They haven't done a lot of that.

Basically, I'm not gonna make you hire 4 named NPCs and call that a 'team'.  There's gonna be some faceless design mooks involved.  Even the internal transfers and science academy had design mooks sufficent to hire a decent sized team.
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Daryk

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #64 on: 15 November 2015, 08:41:50 »
I'm still not sure exactly how big the team can be, but I'm fairly certain for the price of one 27-year veteran, I can hire at least two who have only finished their five year terms.  And honestly, what I'm looking for from the 27-year folks is technical leadership, not necessarily pen to paper design work.  How big is the University team that applied together?

Warclaw

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #65 on: 15 November 2015, 20:50:20 »
Another thing I'm looking for is a logistics specialist from the Conventional Armor side of the company.

Why?  Well, while Minako is familiar with mech design, when it comes time to actually make the prototype she'll need help with the ins and outs of logistical planning and ordering so that they have what they need on time, but don't either end up waiting for parts, or wondering what to do with a huge pile of armor plates and no frame to mount them on yet.

Vehrec

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #66 on: 15 November 2015, 22:00:19 »
The school team are Big Enough, okay?  Don't press me for more specific numbers-it's currently in a state of quantum uncertainty between 5 and 40 people. 

As for production engineers, they'll show up when it's getting to be time to move to the prototyping stage.  Anyways, let's do this.
----
"I think I'll get a list to you as soon as I can.  But if it's not too much trouble, the armor specialist sounds like someone I could really use the help of.  Especially if she can do good work cosmetically."  That gets a bit of a strange look.  "Well, the Atlas was designed to terrify.  But I think we might be able to make a Mech look reliable and worthy of respect as well.  Doing it without compromising protection will be the real trick.  And we would be grateful for a troubleshooter-though I'll have to loan him all my old textbooks so he can get up to speed."

That earns you another barking laugh and after he confirms that you have what you need, Mr. Sanjiv lets you go back to your side of the building and start organizing.  Spreading out the resumes, you start to pick your final team, putting them on empty desks to organize where people will be-and wondering if maybe you shouldn't put some wheels on the desks so that people can move them to where they are most needed.  Alas, the power setup in the room probably won't allow that, but one can always dream.  Stuipd cords getting in the way... you do rearrange a few things, getting the positioning right.  The design will ultimately move through many phases, but the first thing that needs to be more or less locked down will be the chassis. So for now you arrange the offices so that basic structural design has pride of place-you'll probably shift that as time goes on.  It takes most of the morning to get halfway done-you'll probably be all day at this...but there is one person you can interview yourself.  Actually more than one if you're being perfectly honest.

[ ] Find Niklos and grab lunch with him at a curry house?
[ ] Make sure Mawar has no hard feelings over lunch at the tapas bar?
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Daryk

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #67 on: 15 November 2015, 22:45:41 »
I vote for lunch with Niklos, but am amenable to talking to Mawar if Warclaw would rather.

Between 5 and 40?  OK... so from "taking a bit of a risk on salary" to "truly insane"...  :D

Warclaw

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #68 on: 15 November 2015, 22:57:29 »
Lunch w/ Niklos, and send an e-mail (or equivalent) to Mawar seeing if they are interested in getting Tapas after work.  (Tapas is best late evening anyway)

Vehrec

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #69 on: 17 November 2015, 15:20:56 »
I think I will accept the dual-meal gambit!
----
"So.  What can we talk about here?"  You were able to find Niklos without much trouble-he's fairly well known, and about ten or fifteen years older than you, but more than willing to let you join his group of friends for a lunch out down the street from the compound to a curry joint run by some locals in the indian style, whatever that is.  He's a fairly popular guy it seems, but you don't know if you can trust anyone here-or the government not to make people disappear to some temperate gulag if you mention anything specific.

You're regretting not having done more research before you came here.  First there was the terrible mid-day heat you've been trying to avoid-forty degrees in the shade if you're not incorrect, and the heat-island effect just makes this area even hotter with parking lots and industrial and service buildings baking in the intense sunlight.  You knew that Neo Brasilia was an equatorial city, but you hadn't really realized just what that meant.  A girl from a planet without any tropical zone at all, this place has really done a number on you just from walking down the street.  You're gonna need to buy new clothes-half your wardrobe has long sleeves and you're not prepared for a long stay in a tropical environment.  Worse, the food is strange too.  You thought you knew what curry was. It's got some spices in it, but it's basically just a stew poured over rice.  This though, purports to be an 'authentic' Curry house, and it's very odd.  Flatbread, yogurt, spiced chicken, the menu is a litany of confusion and you wind up just letting Niklos order for you.

Niklos is a big guy.  He's tall but also running towards fat, jolly in a rather cultivated way, likes jokes and telling stories-(the one about the landmine and the hovercraft will have you giggling when you think of it for weeks) and you have a sneaking suspicion that he's ordered something hot enough to make a joke of you.  At least the flatbread is tasty enough, and you nibble some as he and the others consider your question.  "We can speak about...generalities out here.  But we try to avoid talking shop too much here until things are public knowledge."

You nod, it's a sensible policy.  "So what is public knowledge?  I know you guys have a fairly advanced project, can you talk about that."

The guys and gals loosen up.  "The T-50, yeah.  It's gonna be faster and better armed than the T-15.  Not like that's any big trick.  The T-15 was designed so that pirates would laugh so hard they wouldn't bother to count them.  The first ones didn't even have composite armor-just face-hardened steel plates.   The more modern ones are better but they still have terrible 40mm guns.  The problem is that the company made it's money building those tanks, so when they got long in the tooth and fell out of favor, our profits kinda went with them.  So we've spent the past two years mocking up every turret configuration and armor layout under the sun, from the conventional to the 'quad laser'."  The term Quad-laser gets a bit of a laugh around the table and you join in after a beat, the 4 medium turret looking quite comical in your minds eye.  Effective at short ranges maybe, an urban fighter, but nothing you'd take seriously.  "We even had a PPC turret mocked up, but the numbers on the imports weren't good.  The design works been mostly done for a while, we just needed to finally decide on which one we were going to build.  After that, well everyone says the Tapir is getting a bit long in the tooth and standard APCs haven't exactly impressed.  Or maybe someone might have mentioned a little other project?" 

The two of you share a grin before the food arrives-you get some sort of bird slathered in something and take a bite hesitantly.  You're not exactly considered tender-mouthed back home, not compared to grandpa with his opinion that pepper and salt are excessive.  Still, the sensation of heat nearly overwhelms the juiciness of the meat and while you brave a few more bites you ultimately need to seek the succor of your water to laughter all around.
----
Mawar has a scar running from the corner of her eye to her jawline, and even show's you it's partner on her shoulder.  It's an ugly chemical burn from 'An experiment with early laser technology-glad we don't use them anymore, that's for sure.'  She could probably aford to have it removed but  Talking with her about the quirks of local weapons is enlightening.  For instance, you learn that the LRM launchers in 10 and 20 tubes that you can get locally are cosmetically identical from the front.  It's the reloading gear that's the difference.  And she's enthusiastically giving you the rundown of everything, fond of having found another weapons geek and you're glad to be making a friend.

Still, friendship is a two way street-what kind of interests and hobbies do you have to share with your new friend?

Code: [Select]
[ ] Grandpa's lessons in marksmanship and skiing left you with a lifelong passion for fresh powder both on the slopes and in your rifles.
[ ] Your eighth grade art teacher let you get hands on with painting and sculpture, and you've never fully given up either.
[ ] You are an inveterate Fangirl, obsessed with drama and high romance, theater and books and holo-dramas.
[ ] A great singing voice, a good attitude at parties, and a love of karaoke... you have two of those things.
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Daryk

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #70 on: 17 November 2015, 19:57:33 »
I'm going to have to go with option one, though I'm sure skiing on this planet is hard to come by...

Vehrec

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #71 on: 18 November 2015, 16:39:01 »
Option Jade Harley selected: "No grandpa this is a perfectly deadly gun that shoots perfectly deadly Bullets!"

---

When you were four, your family left your home in Albany on New Oslo to go live with your maternal grandfather.  Grandpa lived in a strange place, on a different continent far from Albany, and you grew up in a rather simple and severe community, where it felt like half of every year was spent burried in snow and the other half spent chopping wood, fishing and hunting for food for the winter.  You Grandpa taught you to ski your first winter, and when you were eight, bought you your first rifle.  Just a tiny thing, barely more than an airgun.  Your dad wasn't very happy though about the old man's lessons in sharpshooting and skiing, the classic nordic biathalon, but you absorbed both skills.  You learned how to conceal yourself in snowy terrain, how to shoot without giving away your position, even how to hide your breath.

It wasn't, you explain, until you were about 15 that your learned the truth about your Grandpa.  Because when the Combine gave up New Oslo, they sent your grandpa a parting gift in the form of six DEST ninjas who snuck into his house and tried to kill him.  Grandpa Simo proved that night that his nickname was not inaccurate, for the White Death who had killed over 700 men took six more lives that night.  Several of his hunting buddies found him the next morning, bleeding quietly and sipping vodka while the corpses cooled in the snow outside.  The old men at the hospital during visiting hours told you the whole story-how your grandfather had been a guerrilla and assassin who took the lives of those who oppressed the people-though your Grandpa simply said that he had shot a lot of innocent men as well as evil ones.  You had to evacuate New Oslo in a hurry when the Claners landed...but grandpa is still there.  You hope he's not having to shoot anyone, but in your heart, you suspect the White Death once more has taken to the slopes with his rifle.

Your rifle is still at the spacepot, waiting for the licence to clear and for you to be allowed to pick it up.  You're not as good a shot as your grandpa.  After all, the best you can shoot at is only about 800 meters with you G-160.  Grandpa once shot a man at a kilometer and a half with such a rifle, or so the story goes.

"So what you're telling me...is that you're some sort of mech-designing sniper badass trained by an even more badass old man who secretly trained you?"  The question makes you giggle-snort into your drink and when you recover, the two of you hoist a glass to grandpa.

...wherever he is.  The joy of telling stories behind you, you're feeling down when you get back to your hotel room.  Not much time for research or work tonight just... maybe something to make you feel better and blunt the homesickness.  Or maybe that's just calamari.

[ ] Write in a suggestion for something to do before heading to bed to cheer you up.  Or just write in about how Minako feels right now.
« Last Edit: 18 November 2015, 16:40:33 by Vehrec »
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Warclaw

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #72 on: 18 November 2015, 18:01:53 »
     Perhaps it was the alcohol.  Perhaps the stories of home.  Might even have been the heat and humidity, so unlike New Oslo.  Whatever it was, Minako was feeling homesick and mildly depressed as she collapsed onto the small couch in her hotel room.

     And, just like when she was in college and couldn't concentrate, she pulled out her sketch pad and began to draw.  Flowers, dragons, intricate knot-work, nothing spectacular just a little bit of flash for her portfolio.

     One of the other things she'd learned from Grandpa that Mom and Dad hadn't approved of was how to tattoo.  Grandpa had insisted she learn a number of portable and common skill sets that would allow her to survive and find a place wherever she ended up.  If the mech design gig didn't work out, she'd still be able to follow a number of paths.  Bartending, Tattooing, light carpentry...she even had an EMT license kicking around somewhere in her bags.  It wasn't local of course, but it should be enough to at least let her take a competency exam to get a ticket here if she needed to.

Daryk

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #73 on: 18 November 2015, 20:52:23 »
Sounds good to me!  O0

Vehrec

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #74 on: 19 November 2015, 11:13:38 »
I'm gonna take this idea and run with it in a slightly different direction. :D
------------
Your mom had been the one to insist that you have backup skills.  Grandpa was nice, but as far as he was concerned, you were going to be a high-tech engineer, a guerrilla commando, or a trapper and herder, and there wasn't really another option.  Mom had a bit more sensible outlook, figuring that you might not be able to make it as a Mech designer or a nuclear engineer. She figured, all else being equal, bartender was a skill you could use in any non-Muslim community.  Grandpa, being sensible about the skills he wanted you to have, decided that medic training was appropriate, while dad kept you busy more than one summer with his construction and repair projects.  And you picked up a few more things as your teenage and college years ticked by-your master's thesis was the only thing that forced you to drop other work and totally concentrate your attention.

In any case, you added a few new skills in the year on the run.  Tattooing is one-you picked it up on the refugee ships fleeing New Oslo, putting your existing art skills to new use.  Illustrating your own mech concepts has been a hobby more than a skill, but you've always wanted to paint your first real Mech before it's realized in metal and myomer.  Mostly you are on the 'drawing' rather than the actual ink-on-skin part of the discipline, but you're pretty sure you have a steady hand and can stay within your own lines.  You certainly didn't mess up that "MOM" tat you gave the guy on the trip out here.  You add a new knot-pattern, a ryu in it's long an sinuous form wrapped around a Dragon-mech, and a pair of crossed rifles with a wreath around them to your portfolio of designs before you hit the hay.

You wake up early, and have a decision to make.  You don't have any of your new hires just yet, they won't arrive until the middle of next week from what you were told.  And you have been putting off some of the local bureaucratic tasks, like getting registered fro the full spectrum of social programs and such.  Someone with more paranoia than sense might want to keep off government registers, but you know you're being watched anyways, and having a ration book and medical insurance won't intensify that scrutiny.  You're a valuable foreigner, and they'd have to be complete idiots not to have some protection for you-in fact, that sedan that always follows you to work seems pretty suspicious.  On the other hand, getting a jump on work and handling the other stuff on the weekend is probably do-able, though government offices are closed on Sundays, and only have half-days on Saturday.
Code: [Select]
[ ] A good work-ethic is essential-no taking a personal day so early in your new job!  We're in 'throw mechs at the wall mode', maybe look at an alternative engine from those performance tweaks?
[ ] Unless there's an unexpected problem, I can't actually do much today.  Let's get the basics done and maybe look into the housing situation and transportation.  Drivers are nice, but the minder goes away after the first month.
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Daryk

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #75 on: 19 November 2015, 19:27:53 »
Definitely option one here, though we know an alternate engine isn't realistic.  I'm sure there are more useful things to work through (as Warclaw and I have been discussing).  Housing and transportation can wait for Saturday, and the government offices are open for a half day then too...

Warclaw

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #76 on: 19 November 2015, 20:15:45 »
agreed...one question though:

On the weapons and equipment availability chart you gave us, you list "Rocket artillery".
I can't find the listing for that on Sarna.net nor in SSW.  Can we get some stats?

Daryk

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #77 on: 19 November 2015, 20:23:46 »
Glad to know it wasn't just me on the rocket artillery... I thought maybe it was a book I didn't have.

Vehrec

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #78 on: 19 November 2015, 21:33:38 »
'Rocket Artillery' are the longer-range and less accurate cousins of your standard rocket launchers, meant to replicate massed artillery rockets used by the soviets and germans in WW2 in appearance-they are correspondingly very cheap (only 90,000 C-bills) and very disposeable being one-use only.  I cooked them up for a very cheap and dirty system that was throwing around a lot of retro-tech.

A single one-use pod and mounting brackets for it weighs five tons and takes up five crits on a mech.  Because they spray burning solid fuel propellant all over the insides of their launcher when ignited, they generate 20 heat on launch, but only do ten/five damage.  The main use of them is to throw one or two on a flatbed truck, tack on a basic targeting system, and rain down a solid barrage from four mapsheets away from the target, which should ideally be stopped or immobile like a Dropship.  For mechs, they're both the lightest and most dubiousy useful artillery option-they're a bit less than one-third the size of an Arrow IV with one ton of arrow, but that can launch 5 missiles that each do 50% more damage.
« Last Edit: 19 November 2015, 22:23:39 by Vehrec »
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Daryk

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #79 on: 20 November 2015, 04:33:31 »
Cool... Katyushas FTW!

Vehrec

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #80 on: 20 November 2015, 20:21:13 »
You head into work again and get there a little late-traffic is killer this morning, and your driver has to spend half an hour in a jam.  The office is still as dead as a corpse, though now there is an email waiting for you that says that the in-house transfers will be ready to begin their briefing on monday of next week.  Far more alarming is an email to you from the HR VP who was all smiles the day you started work.

Quote from: Human Resources VP
Several of our major shareholders have requested a private meeting with you.  While none of them have a controlling interest in the company, I can see no reason to deny them a chance to meet you.  They do control 20% of the stock, and want to see that their dividends will be going up.  A personal meeting where they get to ask you a few questions to calm their worries is the least we can do.  The meeting is scheduled for 3:30, so please arrive at least a half hour beforehand so we can slot your presentation into

Fair warning though: this bunch is a lot of ex-mercenaries who got paid with a combination of C-bills, land grants, and stock in newly privatized companies.  Some of them haven't adjusted to civilian life well.  One of them is an addict.  All of them have Opinions about Battlemechs.  Bring something to show them-anything at all.  I don't expect you to wow them out of the gate, but we need to keep these people at least marginally happy.

You don't like the sound of this.  Being shown off to a bunch of mercs is one thing, but being show off to a bunch of washed up ex-mercs sounds even worse.  Mercs are the most impossible to satisfy and difficult to be paid by customers according to your teachers.  Anyone with decent mechs out here would have been even worse.  Paid off with enough to retire on, it seems the allowed their baser instincts to rule the day.  You don't have a connection to outside networks, but you can imagine what some of them are like-the junkie is probably pretty cool if you can get them while they are sufficiently high and happy.

Still, you have until 3PM to knock together something to impress them. If you have to participate in this dog and pony show though, you guess you can...
Code: [Select]
[ ] Mock up a new design concept to wow them-either an Assault to show off something big and stompy, a light to make something fast, or a Found-Tech design utilizing the
latest tech that you can't hope to build, but is sure to impress.
[ ]You have a tablet and some drawing software, there's time to illustrate a single piece of concept art for one of your existing design concepts.
[ ]Crunch some numbers, call production, see if you can't get an estimate for how many of these the 'factory' can make. They want profits, well let's think about selling mechs.
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Warclaw

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #81 on: 20 November 2015, 20:39:17 »
Crunch some numbers, call production, see if you can't get an estimate for how many of these the 'factory' can make. They want profits, well let's think about selling mechs.


Daryk

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #82 on: 20 November 2015, 22:15:16 »
As tempting as it is to throw together an assault with a Long Tom Cannon ([drool]), I think over-promising at this point, especially with that crowd, is a bad idea.  I'm with Warclaw.

Vehrec

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #83 on: 21 November 2015, 19:21:06 »
After several hours of discussion, you have a few rules of thumb in hand.  The key to an efficent assembly operation is scale-one mech at a time is very slow to produce, since each part requires it's own tooling which can only be operated by skilled workers.  Since the machinery then sits idle until it is needed again, building one mech at a time can take a long time-a single Atlas, assembled from scratch in the best-equipped machine shop with all the dies and jigs already in place and highly skilled assembly workers, would take two months.

Four Atlases, building in parallel but not perfectly in synch, would be done in one month.  Nine fabrication bays working in harmony, spreading out the completion and need for each part, achieves a rate of 13 or 14 Atlases a month.  The rule of thumb with these smaller-scale factories seems to be 'take the number in construction at once, and the square-root of that will multiply by your production.'  Of course, there are complicating issues.  Your design is one of them-it might be easy to assemble or hard.  Supplies of subcomponents is another-with the new Large Laser for instance, you're looking at a design that isn't in production yet and can't be used for mass production for at least a year.  Someone needs to build a assembly line for those components first.  However, since the design will need to move through a prototype stage first, it seems likely that a ready laser will be ready by the time things go Seria.

Serial production is another thing-as time goes on, the amount of time and resources spent making the design shrinks, if investment is made to simplify it.  Most of the big factories did this years ago, and it does have diminishing returns, but after five years of full production, some assembly lines cut the time required by a factor of three-fourths.  Getting good serial production figures depends more than anything else on numbers though, and you doubt the local government can absorb a thousand mechs.  It would be neat if they could!  But the high production levels that justify Hephestus-style production lines and high efficiency production aren't justified out in the periphery.  The capital to invest just isn't there 98% of the time.

The upshot of all this is that if you can compress four roles into two basic frames and configurations, differing only by the minimum, you can realize savings and efficiency that would otherwise be out of reach.  You choose to emphasize the ability to make a slight profit on the government contract, with the future sales-be they to Cabanagem regiments or mercenaries or the Great Houses-being mostly profit.

Still, which do you think is better to put emphasis on?
Code: [Select]
[ ] A mixed Energy/balistic/missile heavy trooper and a missile support trooper?  Margins are a little bigger here.
[ ] The Light hunter/scout pair of designs?  Suitable for export without worrying too much about selling state secrets or powerful tech.
[ ] Sell them on your research alone, and go in with shakey estimates backed by stronger production figures.
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Daryk

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #84 on: 21 November 2015, 20:18:24 »
Coincidentally enough, Warclaw and I have been discussing option one almost exactly as you describe it.  I still want to keep the door open for my initial flashbulb design (4/6/4, two large lasers, four mediums, 16 HS, max armor), but the concept we've been working on is outlined below.

First, a base chassis with a mix of secondary weapons (that we're close to agreeing on):
60 tons
4/6
Max Armor (12.5 tons)
SRM-2 (Head)
2 MGs (CT)
Medium Laser (LT)
One ton SRM ammo and 1/2 ton of MG Ammo in the RT with CASE (at triple cost)
11 HS
This leaves 18 tons for primary armament and cooling/ammo.
Cost is around 4.3M at this point (due to tripling the cost of the CASE), and everything but the RT and RA is the same between the two designs.

For the mixed armament trooper, we were talking about:
AC/10 (RA) and two tons of ammo (in the CASE protected RT)
Two additional SRM-2s in the RT, drawing from the same bin as the launcher in the Head
Two more HS
For a total cost around 4.7M

For the missile support version:
Two LRM-15s (RA/RT) with four tons of ammo in the RT
For a total cost just under 5M.

We avoided jump jets on cost and design complexity grounds, though for comparison my flashbulb comes in just over 5M with them.

Vehrec

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #85 on: 21 November 2015, 21:59:50 »
Coincidentally enough, Warclaw and I have been discussing option one almost exactly as you describe it.  I still want to keep the door open for my initial flashbulb design (4/6/4, two large lasers, four mediums, 16 HS, max armor), but the concept we've been working on is outlined below.

First, a base chassis with a mix of secondary weapons (that we're close to agreeing on):
60 tons
4/6
Max Armor (12.5 tons)
SRM-2 (Head)
2 MGs (CT)
Medium Laser (LT)
One ton SRM ammo and 1/2 ton of MG Ammo in the RT with CASE (at triple cost)
11 HS
This leaves 18 tons for primary armament and cooling/ammo.
Cost is around 4.3M at this point (due to tripling the cost of the CASE), and everything but the RT and RA is the same between the two designs.

For the mixed armament trooper, we were talking about:
AC/10 (RA) and two tons of ammo (in the CASE protected RT)
Two additional SRM-2s in the RT, drawing from the same bin as the launcher in the Head
Two more HS
For a total cost around 4.7M

For the missile support version:
Two LRM-15s (RA/RT) with four tons of ammo in the RT
For a total cost just under 5M.

We avoided jump jets on cost and design complexity grounds, though for comparison my flashbulb comes in just over 5M with them.

Fun fact, he showed me one of his earlier prototypes.  So I knew what you were aiming for already.

If you wanted to know, the Pistolero was a 4/6/4 70 tonner with 12 medium lasers all bunched up in the arms, and a bunch of negative quirks that make it not very fun to pilot.  On the other hand, it does mean that there is a perfectly good 280 rated engine design just waiting for the bugs to be worked out on the market :D
*Insert support for fashionable faction of the week here*

Daryk

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #86 on: 21 November 2015, 22:42:52 »
There's a functioning 280 engine design on planet?  [drool]

Vehrec

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #87 on: 22 November 2015, 13:17:00 »
I've added to the existing spreadsheet a page of engines developed on spec by the local Academy of Science-a few of them are for speculative future designs, made on the assumption that something will use them, and others are deliberate copies of successful designs.  Anything marked Prototype should still in bench-testing, while 'serial production' denotes an engine nearly ready for prime time.  Two further ratings can be not found on this list-Design, which only exists on paper, and Mass Production, which denotes a mature design that has extensive production.  That said, since the 280 is the only one that has been installed in a Mech, it's also the only one with an explicit upside or downside-the poor performance quirk.

As before, Green is bought from another vendor, though this time it would be licencing the production.
*Insert support for fashionable faction of the week here*

Daryk

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #88 on: 22 November 2015, 13:42:33 »
Cool... with regard to the 25 rated engine, I had set up a whole line of vehicles for my non-canon unit a few years back: 5 ton jeep (9/14), 9 ton light truck (5/8), 15 ton medium truck (3/5), and 45 ton mech recovery vehicle (1/2).  The base chassis all had half a ton of armor, with an optional armor package throwing an extra two tons on for 10 points on each side.  Fractional accounting made them work best, but they were functional even under TW rules (aside from the 9 ton, of course).

That 160 engine could also give us a very cheap trooper at 40 tons...

Warclaw

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Re: 'Mech Engineer Quest
« Reply #89 on: 22 November 2015, 15:46:01 »
Indeed it would...

In fact, I have a couple designs that just MIGHT be what we need for a starting unit.

One down-teched version meant for export to other periphery realms: Quite capable against the lower tech opponents seen out here, but limited against more modern designs.  Styling includes a small armor shield on the left arm, meant to evoke thoughts of knights, and the Medium Rifle's housing is specifically sculpted to resemble a short Lance.  In short, it LOOKS quite impressive....

trooper-40 (Periphery Export Version) T-40 PX

Mass: 40 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: All Eras (non-canon)
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/X-X-X-A
Production Year: 0
Cost: 2,673,113 C-Bills
Battle Value: 764

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 160 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 120 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
    1  Medium Rifle
    1  SRM-4
    3  Machine Guns
    1  Small Shield
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      67 points                4.00
Engine:             Fusion Engine                160                       6.00
    Walking MP: 4
    Running MP: 6
    Jumping MP: 4 Standard
    Jump Jet Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT                                         2.00
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             10                        0.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 1 LT, 2 RT, 1 RA
Gyro:               Standard                                               2.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 136                  8.50

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     12           17       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  6         
                                           L/R Torso     10           15       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  5         
                                             L/R Arm     6            12       
                                             L/R Leg     10           20       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SRM-4                                        RT        3         1         2.00
3 Machine Guns                               LT        0         3         1.50
Medium Rifle                                 RA        2         2         5.00
Small Shield                                 LA        -         3         2.00
@Medium Rifle (18)                           RT        -         2         2.00
@SRM-4 (25)                                  RT        -         1         1.00
@MG (200)                                    LT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 27

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      5    Points: 8
4j         2       2       0       0      2     0   Structure:  3
Special Abilities: MEL, SHLD, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA


And now the version meant for use by the home guard and more trusted buyers.
Hits harder, meant for staying power on the battlefield.  The lower-end medium version of an assault mech. (Inspired by the Panther)  CASE and an AMS system drive the costs up a bit, but I think the increase in survivability is worth it.

trooper-40 (Home Guard Version) T-40 HG

Mass: 40 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: All Eras (non-canon)
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/E-F-D-A
Production Year: 0
Cost: 2,874,013 C-Bills
Battle Value: 932

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 160 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
    Jump Capacity: 120 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor w/ CASE
Armament:
    1  Large Laser
    1  SRM-6
    2  Machine Guns
    1  Anti-Missile System
Manufacturer: Unknown
    Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard                      67 points                4.00
Engine:             Fusion Engine                160                       6.00
    Walking MP: 4
    Running MP: 6
    Jumping MP: 4 Standard
    Jump Jet Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT                                         2.00
Heat Sinks:         Single Heat Sink             12                        2.00
    Heat Sink Locations: 1 CT, 4 LT, 1 RA
Gyro:               Standard                                               2.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA
Armor:              Standard Armor               AV - 136                  8.50
    CASE Locations: 1 LT                                                   0.50

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     12           17       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  6         
                                           L/R Torso     10           15       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  5         
                                             L/R Arm     6            12       
                                             L/R Leg     10           20       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anti-Missile System                          HD        1         1         0.50
SRM-6                                        LT        4         2         3.00
Large Laser                                  RA        8         2         5.00
2 Machine Guns                               LA        0         2         1.00
@SRM-6 (15)                                  LT        -         1         1.00
@MG (1/2) (100)                              LT        -         1         0.50
@Anti-Missile System (12)                    LT        -         1         1.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 27

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      5    Points: 9
4j         2       2       0       0      2     0   Structure:  3
Special Abilities: AMS, CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA