WarShip of the Week: Defender

[Grantwhy]

Actually, we haven't seen FR:2765 for the Lyrans yet.  Would they have used Tharkads as their flagships, or did they have something bigger still?

A small moon perhaps?  ^-^

[A. Lurker]

A small moon perhaps?  ^-^

Okay, we all know somebody has to now, so let me get that out of the way:

"That's no moon..."

[Weirdo]

I'm actually betting on a smaller ship. Like the Mariks, the Lyrans got a good and modern heavy ship in 3075/57u, so I think that like the Mariks, they'll get a mid-sized workhorse, like a frigate or something. Between the Tharkads, Makos, and the usual 'pre-loved' Terran stuff, a middleweight would round out their fleet quite nicely.

[Arkansas Warrior]

A small moon perhaps?  ^-^

With a heavy mass driver?

[Weirdo]

Someday we'll get something with a heavy driver...and on that day, I will go golfing for Levs.

I will probably fail spectacularly.

[misterpants]

Someday we'll get something with a heavy driver...and on that day, I will go golfing for Levs.

I will probably fail spectacularly.

Plan B, ask for a record sheet for the Erinyes?

[Jellico]

It's starting to seem like the Fed Suns was the only power without a "modern" vessel class that could serve as a flagship at the outbreak of the 1st Succession War.  Right now, it's ironically the Capellans that have the biggest one, and the most modern.  (The fact that the Fed Suns was still using a class of the same generation as the Dreadnought, unable to accommodate Dropships, seems to indicate just how much they really valued/understood their navy. )

Actually, we haven't seen FR:2765 for the Lyrans yet.  Would they have used Tharkads as their flagships, or did they have something bigger still?

cheers,

Gabe

The Suns have a heavy carrier. What more do they need?

[glitterboy2098]

The Suns have a heavy carrier. What more do they need?

a warship with a ram prow and all its useful mass invested in SI and armor?

[nerd]

a warship with a ram prow and all its useful mass invested in SI and armor?

Call it the Ben-Hur

[Arvanna]

I haven't seen the states on the Defender yet but from what has been said I an see a Block II version dropping a point of speed for more SI and better armor and more of it just for starters.

[Wrangler]

It's starting to seem like the Fed Suns was the only power without a "modern" vessel class that could serve as a flagship at the outbreak of the 1st Succession War.  Right now, it's ironically the Capellans that have the biggest one, and the most modern.  (The fact that the Fed Suns was still using a class of the same generation as the Dreadnought, unable to accommodate Dropships, seems to indicate just how much they really valued/understood their navy. )

Actually, we haven't seen FR:2765 for the Lyrans yet.  Would they have used Tharkads as their flagships, or did they have something bigger still?

cheers,

Gabe

Well, Commonwealth Class WarShip could be anything.  Lyrans have as far built ships, Mako Corvettes and the Tharkad Class Battlecruisers    That would mean that the Commonwealth  must either been rather good multirole 1st gen ship or the Lyran economy was at its peak to afford a fleet of WarShips and Commonwealth was a bad prototype like the Defender was (not i'm saying i was, it was properly a fluff problem not mechanical.)

[ArkRoyalRavager]

For all the lamenting here the original sourcebook noted the Golden Lion managing to put in a magnificent performance at Cholame. AFFS Admiral Jones was quite the reincarnation of Nelson right down to the "dying in his finest hour" part.

[gyedid]

For all the lamenting here the original sourcebook noted the Golden Lion managing to put in a magnificent performance at Cholame. AFFS Admiral Jones was quite the reincarnation of Nelson right down to the "dying in his finest hour" part.

Well, we all know how well fluff is borne out when subjected to actual tabletop/computerized testing.  While I haven't seen the stats, given that even the Defender's creator refers to it as "soft", I can't see the Golden Lion lasting that long in a major naval engagement unless it suddenly developed a Morgan Kell-like "Phantom Ship" ability, making it even harder to hit beyond the usual ECM and evasive maneuver modifiers.

cheers,

Gabe

[ArkRoyalRavager]

Yet it is canon. So the Golden Lion's Crowning Moment of Awesome happened :)

[Weirdo]

Cholame is easy ti figure out. One Defender against a Kurita navy is meat. But what if there were more than one, and Golden Lion is simply the more well-known of the two?  And since they were accompanied by the bulk of the Davion fleet, they had Congress-Ds and Davion IIs providing support, fighter cover from New Syrtises, Vampires launching boarding actions, Achilles darting every which way...the only word I have to describe such a formation is chainsaw-chucks.

[Wrangler]

Cholame is easy ti figure out. One Defender against a Kurita navy is meat. But what if there were more than one, and Golden Lion is simply the more well-known of the two?  And since they were accompanied by the bulk of the Davion fleet, they had Congress-Ds and Davion IIs providing support, fighter cover from New Syrtises, Vampires launching boarding actions, Achilles darting every which way...the only word I have to describe such a formation is chainsaw-chucks.

According to the fluff, the Golden Lion's fleet its been assigned to from what understand has two Defenders in it. 

However, wasn't the Cholame entire navy combined going at the Kuritas?  Means entire shooting match, with maybe couple stragglers and at least one New Syrtise missing/surviving the show.

[Welshman]

I haven't seen the states on the Defender yet but from what has been said I an see a Block II version dropping a point of speed for more SI and better armor and more of it just for starters.

Changing engines on a WarShip is not like swapping out the engine on your Ford Pickup, or even your Atlas. The engine makes up a significant part of the ship and structure. It would be more like ripping the frame and engine out from under your Ford and trying to squash the body onto the frame of a VW Bug.

At that point you're not at a Block II, you're at a new WarShip.

 

[Giovanni Blasini]

It would be more like ripping the frame and engine out from under your Ford and trying to squash the body onto the frame of a VW Bug.

*cough* *cough*

It can be done with some work, though Porsches tend to be donors more often, and Chevy 350s are way more common than Fords shoved into Bugs.  Paul Newman's V8 Bug would be an example, though, of a Ford V8 in a Beetle.

Maybe not the best example? ;)

[A. Lurker]

Car comparisons are way, wayyyy off scale anyway. "O hai, we thought your nuclear aircraft carrier needed a complete reactor redesign..." probably comes closer.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

Cholame is easy ti figure out. One Defender against a Kurita navy is meat. But what if there were more than one, and Golden Lion is simply the more well-known of the two?  And since they were accompanied by the bulk of the Davion fleet, they had Congress-Ds and Davion IIs providing support, fighter cover from New Syrtises, Vampires launching boarding actions, Achilles darting every which way...the only word I have to describe such a formation is chainsaw-chucks.

Both sides had more than 100 WarShips, 100+ DropShips and "clouds of aerospace fighters" at Cholame. The FSN had hit more than 10 systems before this battle, so they're guaranteed to be exhausted, out of ammo, and pretty banged up. The DCA had a fresh fleet with equal or slightly superior numbers. A few ships escaped, along with the small minority of the FSN that weren't drafted into the task force. The Golden Lion darted between the system jump points for six weeks before getting destroyed. This battle was almost 3 times as long as Robsart but a glass cannon like the Golden Lion had the stamina for it 8)

[A. Lurker]

Both sides had more than 100 WarShips, 100+ DropShips and "clouds of aerospace fighters" at Cholame. The FSN had hit more than 10 systems before this battle, so they're guaranteed to be exhausted, out of ammo, and pretty banged up. The DCA had a fresh fleet with equal or slightly superior numbers. A few ships escaped, along with the small minority of the FSN that weren't drafted into the task force. The Golden Lion darted between the system jump points for six weeks before getting destroyed. This battle was almost 3 times as long as Robsart but a glass cannon like the Golden Lion had the stamina for it 8)

Well, statistics isn't an exact predictive science. Sure, on average, or possibly even in the vast majority of cases, you'd expect the "glass cannon" to live up to its reputation and shatter...but we've got entire threads on this very board dedicated to the exceptions to just those expectations.

Or in other words, maybe the Dracs targeting the Golden Lion were simply rolling the longest string of snake eyes in recorded history. ;)

[Weirdo]

Or in other words, maybe the Dracs targeting the Golden Lion were simply rolling the longest string of snake eyes in recorded history. ;)

A better thought: Maybe the Dracs were targeting the Lion for destruction, and the Davions used that to their advantage. Get people focused on that one ship, draw them out in a pursuit, and when someone is so fixated that they see little else, slam 'em in the flank with Davvy IIs and Congrii. }:)

[ArkRoyalRavager]

One wishes that. But are the Dracs so dumb? They were quite the killing machine under Jinjiro, and this was before Kentares.

[Weirdo]

Not all of them or even most of them, of course not. That trick would only work once or twice. But if the Davions were as outclassed as you imply, pulling something like that can even the odds more than a bit, and explain how Cholame was the draw it was, as opposed to a Palmyra-style rout.

[Dragon Cat]

Sounds like a fun fight

[Weirdo]

Yup. Cholame and other desparate fleet fights are why I'm most looking forward to when CGL gets around to the early Succession Wars. >:D

[FedSunsBorn]

Yup. Cholame and other desparate fleet fights are why I'm most looking forward to when CGL gets around to the early Succession Wars. >:D

+1

[ArkRoyalRavager]

Not all of them or even most of them, of course not. That trick would only work once or twice. But if the Davions were as outclassed as you imply, pulling something like that can even the odds more than a bit, and explain how Cholame was the draw it was, as opposed to a Palmyra-style rout.

I'm guessing maybe ASF had a bigger role to play in this battle? Since both sides fielded carriers it would depend on how many Syrtis and Samarkands were there.

Yup. Cholame and other desparate fleet fights are why I'm most looking forward to when CGL gets around to the early Succession Wars. >:D

I think the only fleet fights in the 1st SW was Cholame and the ones along the FWL-LC-DC front, which only accounts for the wiping out of 4 fleets. Still have no idea how the Capellans lost their fleet unless it was in a piecemeal fashion.

[Weirdo]

I'm guessing maybe ASF had a bigger role to play in this battle? Since both sides fielded carriers it would depend on how many Syrtis and Samarkands were there.

While I don't doubt that fighters were important, I really have to figure out your logic. How did you go from 'Dracs weren't stupid, so the Defenders can't have killed all of them' to 'it was a carrier fight'? There has to have been more than a few mental steps between them.

I think the only fleet fights in the 1st SW was Cholame and the ones along the FWL-LC-DC front, which only accounts for the wiping out of 4 fleets. Still have no idea how the Capellans lost their fleet unless it was in a piecemeal fashion.

Coulda sworn I read somewhere that the 1SW was marked by large FWL naval victories on the Capellan front, that the Liao navy was largely decimated there. No notable battles mentioned, it was just a series of reversals across the entire front.

[gyedid]

Not all of them or even most of them, of course not. That trick would only work once or twice. But if the Davions were as outclassed as you imply, pulling something like that can even the odds more than a bit, and explain how Cholame was the draw it was, as opposed to a PalmyraTentativa-style rout.

Fixed for you given the context  ^-^  ;D

And remember, the Combine navy had enough ships to get involved in a second such furball--vs. the Lyrans at Skondia. 

cheers,

Gabe