Author Topic: Clan Fire Mandrill: Monkey Talk  (Read 95078 times)

joechummer

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Re: Clan Fire Mandrill: Monkey Talk
« Reply #30 on: 28 January 2011, 01:40:01 »
I was under the impression that, like an ilKhan or an ilClan, there can only be ONE ilKindraa at any given time.

Proclaiming one's Kindraa to be an ilKindraa just because they say so sounds like a complete load of jetwash.


Philip A. LeeManaging Editor of Shrapnel, the Official BattleTech Magazine. Author of BattleCorps stories A Wolf in the Eyrie, Half of a Warrior, Seeds of Loyalty, Whispering Death, Fragments of History, A Living Epitaph, Double Down, So Costly a Sacrifice, Rain Dance, Quail Hunting, A Show of Force, and A Keystone Arch, Seven Years' Bad Luck, High Value Target, The Face of the Enemy, Horn and Fang, and A Measure of Clarity
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Re: Clan Fire Mandrill: Monkey Talk
« Reply #31 on: 28 January 2011, 03:01:15 »
Well, the ilKhan is the supreme, wartime commander-in-chief of the Clans, and the ilClan is the Clan that reaches Terra first.

But the requirements for ilKindraa...?  What special achievement -- akin to being elected ilKhan by majority of the Grand Council or winning the ilClan-ship by conquering Terra -- would a Kindraa need to accomplish to be labeled the ilKindraa?  Be the first Kindraa to completely control all of their capital world of Shadow after kicking out all the other Kindraa, maybe? 

To be 100% honest, I think "ilKindraa" is a B.S. term that one of the Kindraa made up as an excuse to make the other Kindraa feel inferior.  It's like two kids playing:

A:  I'm the boss.
B:  Well then I'm the mega boss!
A:  Nuh uh!  I'm the ultra mega boss!
B:  PSH!  I'M the ultra super mega boss to infinity with no takebacks!

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Re: Clan Fire Mandrill: Monkey Talk
« Reply #32 on: 28 January 2011, 05:03:18 »
I agree with the person that said it was an UBer Kindraa. We know from FM Updates that two major Kindraa are formed. One I know for sure is based around the Paynes, but I can't remember what the other one is based around
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Re: Clan Fire Mandrill: Monkey Talk
« Reply #33 on: 28 January 2011, 10:32:27 »
I was under the impression that, like an ilKhan or an ilClan, there can only be ONE ilKindraa at any given time.

Proclaiming one's Kindraa to be an ilKindraa just because they say so sounds like a complete load of jetwash.

Some copy and pasting from FM: U

The resulting debacle hurt
Kline badly, with Clan Star Adder destroying more than a Cluster
of Kline’s best troops. With evidence that Clan Star Adder
would come for them next, Kline accepted an ultimatum from
Mick-Kreese to join ranks or end up as Star Adder bondsmen.


Kindraa Mick-Kreese-Kline
Though it stops short of calling itself an ilKindraa, there is
no doubt that the joining of Mick-Kreese and Kline has formed
a second, impressive Fire Mandrill power bloc. With the
enlarged Kindraa’s strong ties to Clan Blood Spirit and recent
promotion of Kindraa Adjutant Samantha Kline to saKhan, Mick-
Kreese-Kline commands impressive military and political
power. Because of its Crusader position and the way it balances
out the newly ascendant Kindraa Payne-Beyl-Grant, even
Kindraa Sainze has welcomed this new juggernaut into the Fire
Mandrills.


Kindraa Payne-Beyl-Grant
The first “ilKindraa,” as it styles itself, is obviously trying
to provoke its long-time rivals in Kindraa Sainze under the leadership
of Laurel Payne. The Sainze Kindraa, however furious it
might be, is not stupid enough to challenge the raw strength of
this three-Kindraa alliance. Yet.


In short, Kline did it because they got the ultimatum "join me or die". Payne did it to piss off Sainze. Sainze was viciously going after Beyl-Grant and it seemed like they might lose. So their military victory was spoiled by a new political alliance.
« Last Edit: 28 January 2011, 10:37:54 by Alan Grant »

joechummer

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Re: Clan Fire Mandrill: Monkey Talk
« Reply #34 on: 28 January 2011, 11:41:28 »
Joe, you could be... Fire Mandrill Loremaster!
And not for lack of trying...   ;D


Philip A. LeeManaging Editor of Shrapnel, the Official BattleTech Magazine. Author of BattleCorps stories A Wolf in the Eyrie, Half of a Warrior, Seeds of Loyalty, Whispering Death, Fragments of History, A Living Epitaph, Double Down, So Costly a Sacrifice, Rain Dance, Quail Hunting, A Show of Force, and A Keystone Arch, Seven Years' Bad Luck, High Value Target, The Face of the Enemy, Horn and Fang, and A Measure of Clarity
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Re: Clan Fire Mandrill: Monkey Talk
« Reply #35 on: 28 January 2011, 12:06:04 »
I agree with the person that said it was an UBer Kindraa. We know from FM Updates that two major Kindraa are formed. One I know for sure is based around the Paynes, but I can't remember what the other one is based around
Let me break it down for you:  the "major" Kindraa formed aren't very big.

As of FM:U, here's the scoop:

Sainze has 5 Clusters -- 3 frontline, 2 second line.
Payne-Beyl-Grant, the first so-called ilKindraa, fields only 4 Clusters -- 2 frontline, 2 second line.
Faraday-Tanaga has 4 Clusters, 3 of them frontline.
Mick-Kreese-Kline, the other ilKindraa candidate has 6 Clusters, but only two of them are frontline, and one Cluster (mostly Elementals) is on permanent station in a WarShip (as marines, I wonder?).

Now, if the only requirement for ilKindraa is Touman size, then Payne-Beyl Grant has no place calling themselves an ilKindraa.

However, if the requirement is not just Touman size but also Touman quality, the Sainzes have everyone beat, followed by the Faraday-Tanagas, and yet neither of these Kindraa have started calling themselves an ilKindraa.
« Last Edit: 28 January 2011, 12:08:48 by joechummer »


Philip A. LeeManaging Editor of Shrapnel, the Official BattleTech Magazine. Author of BattleCorps stories A Wolf in the Eyrie, Half of a Warrior, Seeds of Loyalty, Whispering Death, Fragments of History, A Living Epitaph, Double Down, So Costly a Sacrifice, Rain Dance, Quail Hunting, A Show of Force, and A Keystone Arch, Seven Years' Bad Luck, High Value Target, The Face of the Enemy, Horn and Fang, and A Measure of Clarity
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Re: Clan Fire Mandrill: Monkey Talk
« Reply #36 on: 28 January 2011, 12:50:50 »
To revisit my own analogy, perhaps "Kindraa Coalition" would be a more accurate way of putting it. Other than "Uber Kindraa".

Joe is right, it's not about size. It's about two Kindraa coming together. In both cases it's happened when one Kindraa seemed on the verge of falling.

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Re: Clan Fire Mandrill: Monkey Talk
« Reply #37 on: 28 January 2011, 13:39:46 »
Let me break it down for you:  the "major" Kindraa formed aren't very big.

As of FM:U, here's the scoop:

Sainze has 5 Clusters -- 3 frontline, 2 second line.
Payne-Beyl-Grant, the first so-called ilKindraa, fields only 4 Clusters -- 2 frontline, 2 second line.
Faraday-Tanaga has 4 Clusters, 3 of them frontline.
Mick-Kreese-Kline, the other ilKindraa candidate has 6 Clusters, but only two of them are frontline, and one Cluster (mostly Elementals) is on permanent station in a WarShip (as marines, I wonder?).

Now, if the only requirement for ilKindraa is Touman size, then Payne-Beyl Grant has no place calling themselves an ilKindraa.

However, if the requirement is not just Touman size but also Touman quality, the Sainzes have everyone beat, followed by the Faraday-Tanagas, and yet neither of these Kindraa have started calling themselves an ilKindraa.
You forgot the Mattila-Carrol kindraa at 3 frontline clusters and two 2nd line.

Also you are in error regard the Mick-Kreese-Klie, it's four frontline and two 2nd line
« Last Edit: 28 January 2011, 13:42:41 by Copperhead »
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Re: Clan Fire Mandrill: Monkey Talk
« Reply #38 on: 28 January 2011, 15:12:07 »
don't forget warship strength either, regardless of clan fighting, the homeworlds situation is odd, and on top of that it seems like the mandrils may have been screwed badly, you never know what they may (have) to do to keep themselves afloat
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Re: Clan Fire Mandrill: Monkey Talk
« Reply #39 on: 28 January 2011, 18:49:16 »
Also you are in error regard the Mick-Kreese-Kline, it's four frontline and two 2nd line
How do you figure?

According to the surviving elements from the combining of the Klines and the Mick-Kreeses, the Klines only had 1 frontline Cluster that survived into the merger, and the Mick-Kreeses likewise had only 1 frontline Cluster that made it into their combined Kindraa. Unless a second line Cluster was promoted to frontline status, this leaves them with only 2.  And even if a second line Cluster WAS promoted, it would still be staffed by lesser/untried warriors and/or freeborns.  A rose by any other name...


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Re: Clan Fire Mandrill: Monkey Talk
« Reply #40 on: 28 January 2011, 18:57:11 »
simple solution, fm updates says 2 frintline and 5 secondline.
"Warriors, not war machines, are the backbone of the Hell's Horses. While others worship the BattleMech as the ultimate weapon, the men and women of this Clan see even this awesome piece of technology as the tool it is. We have held to this philosophy since the days of our first Khan, who knew that the value of the common soldier far outstripped the brute force of the BattleMech. It is one reason our Clan possesses fewer mechs than most, and has led many to underestimate our fierceness and courage. Our survival against all challengers when others have fallen proves the folly of such arrogance, and testifies to the wisdom of our founders."
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Re: Clan Fire Mandrill: Monkey Talk
« Reply #41 on: 28 January 2011, 22:55:38 »
While CJF is my first love, I hate the Fire Mandrills less than I hate the other weak Clans.   ;)

My tastes run towards the Sainzes, Faraday-Tanaga and the Klines.  I'll also second what an earlier poster said about liking the emphasis the Mandrills put on Bloodnames over the interest of their Clan.  I think the Clans as a whole would be much more interesting if their was more obvious politicking between the Bloodname Houses. 
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Re: Clan Fire Mandrill: Monkey Talk
« Reply #42 on: 29 January 2011, 09:13:50 »
Mattila-Carrols for me
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Re: Clan Fire Mandrill: Monkey Talk
« Reply #43 on: 30 January 2011, 23:32:06 »
I love how Faraday-Tanaga engages in selective breeding with the scientists.

In that Kindraa...Einsteins get used as studs. So stay in school kids.

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Re: Clan Fire Mandrill: Monkey Talk
« Reply #44 on: 31 January 2011, 19:05:26 »
I don't remember that.  Doesn't that sorta go against the eugenics program rules?  I'm sure there are a lot of freeborns in the scientist caste.

At any rate, it would make some sense as to why the Faraday-Tanagas seem to be a bit more reasonable than some other Kindraa: they've got some nerd genes mixed in with the jock genes.


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Re: Clan Fire Mandrill: Monkey Talk
« Reply #45 on: 01 February 2011, 00:30:03 »
I love how Faraday-Tanaga engages in selective breeding with the scientists.

In that Kindraa...Einsteins get used as studs. So stay in school kids.

Okay, I looked this up and didn't find any mention of this in either FM:CC or FM:U.  It said the F-Ts attribute the quality of their warriors to their scientist caste, but won't say WHY.  Also, it says their scientists are all freeborns rather than washed-out trueborn cadets.

Mixing freeborn genes into the eugenics program would be anathema to a trueborn Clansman.  If this is actually what the F-Ts are doing, then if someone outside of the F-Ts found out, another Kindraa would immediately call for their Annihilation or Absorption.


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Re: Clan Fire Mandrill: Monkey Talk
« Reply #46 on: 01 February 2011, 09:31:11 »
Anathema is overstating it.  Mixing 'outside' genes is part of the entire reason they keep Freeborns around and let them me warriors. It allows them to mix fresh material into the vats, avoid inbreeding, and get beneficial traits from other sources. However, these need to be WARRIOR genes.  If they're caught mixing in any old Freebirth they like, then they'd be in trouble.

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Re: Clan Fire Mandrill: Monkey Talk
« Reply #47 on: 01 February 2011, 11:51:10 »
istal said it, also remember the sainze's have had to mix freeborn genes for breeding, so it gets done if necessary
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Re: Clan Fire Mandrill: Monkey Talk
« Reply #48 on: 01 February 2011, 21:08:45 »
istal said it, also remember the sainze's have had to mix freeborn genes for breeding, so it gets done if necessary
That was just so they wouldn't have any inbreeding problems.

The Mandrills REALLY need to get out more.


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Re: Clan Fire Mandrill: Monkey Talk
« Reply #49 on: 01 February 2011, 21:11:36 »
Much like the Ravens and the Sharks make me wish I hadn't loaned out the Warden Clans FM years ago, the Fire Mandrills are one of the main forces that make me wish I hadn't loaned out the Crusader Clans book (to the same person).  I kinda think of them as the Battletech equivalent to the Warhammer 40K Orks.  And I say that as a fan of the greeniez.
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Re: Clan Fire Mandrill: Monkey Talk
« Reply #50 on: 01 February 2011, 21:19:35 »
Faraday-Tanaga isn't mixing scientists with the warriors. They are mixing scientists with scientists.

FM: CC, page 43, about 4 paragraphs down.

"The Kindraa Faraday-Tanaga also has the best-developed scientist caste of any Kindraa. They indulge in selective breeding, using prime specimens taken from the other Clans in Trials of Possession. However, the scientists are not trueborn from iron wombs as the warriors are."

It's not that difficult from what the Clans do in general, with arranged marriages. It's just clear that this Kindraa puts more emphasis on it in regards to their scientists. I suspect great scientific success means an edict from the Clan ordering you to have more freeborn offspring (and who you'll be having them with).
« Last Edit: 01 February 2011, 21:23:46 by Alan Grant »

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Re: Clan Fire Mandrill: Monkey Talk
« Reply #51 on: 01 February 2011, 21:37:47 »
Much like the Ravens and the Sharks make me wish I hadn't loaned out the Warden Clans FM years ago, the Fire Mandrills are one of the main forces that make me wish I hadn't loaned out the Crusader Clans book (to the same person).  I kinda think of them as the Battletech equivalent to the Warhammer 40K Orks.  And I say that as a fan of the greeniez.
I'm guessing the person you loaned them to either moved away or lost touch?

I didn't get my copies of FM:WC/CC until last year.  Found them both in near-perfect condition from amazon.com sellers for about $30 apiece, which is what, $8 more than original cover price?  You shouldn't have too terribly much trouble trying to find replacement copies if you go down that road.

The one book that seems harder to find is The Clans: Warriors of Kerensky.  That goes for upwards of $80 or more, which is a shame cos a lot of info there isn't presented anywhere else, and there isn't an official PDF available.  Now, SOME info is rehashed in MechWarrior's Guide to the Clans (which is much easier to obtain), but not all.


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Re: Clan Fire Mandrill: Monkey Talk
« Reply #52 on: 01 February 2011, 21:44:52 »
I'm guessing the person you loaned them to either moved away or lost touch?


Yep.  He also has a good chunk of my PS2 games, as well, if that gives you any hint on how long it's been since I loaned 'em out.
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Re: Clan Fire Mandrill: Monkey Talk
« Reply #53 on: 01 February 2011, 22:11:37 »
That was just so they wouldn't have any inbreeding problems.

The Mandrills REALLY need to get out more.

yup, i know that
"Warriors, not war machines, are the backbone of the Hell's Horses. While others worship the BattleMech as the ultimate weapon, the men and women of this Clan see even this awesome piece of technology as the tool it is. We have held to this philosophy since the days of our first Khan, who knew that the value of the common soldier far outstripped the brute force of the BattleMech. It is one reason our Clan possesses fewer mechs than most, and has led many to underestimate our fierceness and courage. Our survival against all challengers when others have fallen proves the folly of such arrogance, and testifies to the wisdom of our founders."
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Re: Clan Fire Mandrill: Monkey Talk
« Reply #54 on: 08 March 2011, 05:27:42 »
Are there any canon random assignment tables for the Fire Mandrills besides those found in FM:U and FM:CC?
I'm guessing that's all there is, but doesn't hurt to ask.

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Re: Clan Fire Mandrill: Monkey Talk
« Reply #55 on: 08 March 2011, 05:46:08 »
The only other books I can think of would be Operation: Klondike and Era Report: Golden Century. Neither of those is psot 3067.
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Re: Clan Fire Mandrill: Monkey Talk
« Reply #56 on: 08 March 2011, 12:20:24 »
Well, there was a whole fan article about Mandrill mech choices, though its yet to be reposted (and I don't expect it will be, given the author's view on the matter).  Just use a bunch of Crimson Languars and Warhawks and call it good.  Back em with Salamanders if you want to be a bit more two dimensional, and Scythas if you want to be three dimensional (Trace will probably repost the Clan fighter articles before too long, which did have a Mandrill entry).

On the whole, the Mandrills are a Clan I enjoy.  I think in a lot of ways, their over emphasis on fighting all the time over every little thing is the essance of what the Clans are about.  Warden or Crusader?  Some Clans vote, some Clans have a civil war and break up about it, but the Mandrills are able to fight it out and still stay as one Clan... sort of.  Who's to be Khan?  Fight it out.  Who's to represent the Clan in a trial?  Fight it out.  The answer to everything is always fighting all the time, and that's great.

When you talk about FM:U though, its something of a cluster fornication for the Mandrills, and I don't prefer to lean on it too much, canon though it may be.

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Re: Clan Fire Mandrill: Monkey Talk
« Reply #57 on: 08 March 2011, 17:31:52 »
Joe is right, it's not about size. It's about two Kindraa coming together. In both cases it's happened when one Kindraa seemed on the verge of falling.

That sounds so romantic.

Warriors of Kerensky goes for upwards of $80?? Yikes. I found a near mint (little dusty) copy sitting lonely on a back shelf in a local store a few years back for $5. It's one of the few times the relative unpopularity of a wonderful game has ever benefited me.

As a Blood Spirit player, I gotta respect the Mandrills at least a bit. I think they're pretty unique, but I've never actually played them or spent a significant amount of time reading up on 'em. Love the paint schemes though.
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Re: Clan Fire Mandrill: Monkey Talk
« Reply #58 on: 08 March 2011, 19:22:01 »
Well, there was a whole fan article about Mandrill mech choices, though its yet to be reposted (and I don't expect it will be, given the author's view on the matter).  Just use a bunch of Crimson Languars and Warhawks and call it good.  Back em with Salamanders if you want to be a bit more two dimensional, and Scythas if you want to be three dimensional (Trace will probably repost the Clan fighter articles before too long, which did have a Mandrill entry).

Well it's going to be a pre-clan invasion campaign, 3040ish so I'll have a look at the TROs and the tables anyway. The PCs are going to be in Kline which uses only Adders, Summoners and Warhawks plus a bunch of second line or SL stuff.

Also I noticed the Fire Falcon figures somewhat prominently on the random tables, and the Turkina is listed under them for Combat Ops as well. They must have some dealings with the Falcons, perhaps through the Sharks.

EDIT - either way if those fire mandrill tables are available somewhere I'd be interested in at least having a gander.

joechummer

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Re: Clan Fire Mandrill: Monkey Talk
« Reply #59 on: 08 March 2011, 21:38:43 »
Warriors of Kerensky goes for upwards of $80?? Yikes.
Yeah, I don't understand that.  I currently see 2 copies on amazon for about $15 (and two for ~$75), but they are marked as "acceptable," which means they're probably on the verge of falling apart.

I am so glad I managed to get my hands on a copy back when it first came out, when I was at my FLGS, happened to peruse the BT section and went, "Ooh.  New Clan sourcebook?"  Back then I had no idea when a new BT or Shadowrun product was coming out until it hit stores AND my FLGS happened to have one still in stock when I went.

But still, if there's any classic FASA product still in need of a PDF release, it's this book.
« Last Edit: 08 March 2011, 21:41:37 by joechummer »


Philip A. LeeManaging Editor of Shrapnel, the Official BattleTech Magazine. Author of BattleCorps stories A Wolf in the Eyrie, Half of a Warrior, Seeds of Loyalty, Whispering Death, Fragments of History, A Living Epitaph, Double Down, So Costly a Sacrifice, Rain Dance, Quail Hunting, A Show of Force, and A Keystone Arch, Seven Years' Bad Luck, High Value Target, The Face of the Enemy, Horn and Fang, and A Measure of Clarity
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