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Off Topic / Re: What are we Reading Now: Conan the Librarian
« Last post by MoneyLovinOgre4Hire on Today at 09:14:58 »It and Prince of Havoc were both pretty bad in that regard.
Recent Posts
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Aerospace Combat / Re: FC Naval Command Decision
« Last post by AlphaMirage on Today at 09:12:27 »No that's fair Grant.
I think the Great Refusal in 3060 was probably a catalyst for a lot of strategic planning in the Clans so they might have been better prepared for Spheroid Warships and adjusted accordingly. During the initial invasion there probably might have been slack planning as they did anticipate rolling over the Inner Sphere so didn't need to bring their A-game.
Now the FCF can drill and gain the experience to become as good as the FWLM and approach Clan levels if they have time. I think the problem is that they don't really have time to develop a doctrine if there is to be a Jihad era showdown so you have to go with what you've got which is to switch over Fox production to a proper Space Warship that can complement the Avalon and all you have in the pipeline is the Durendal. Either that or order Impavidos for the Lyran Defensive Fleet from Tamarind or Kirishimas from the DCA by leveraging Theodore's appreciation for Victor (and probable marriage to Omiko despite what the Draconis March thinks).
Although now I kinda want to change my answer to 'Other' in that an 2SLDFleet (or even just FCF/DCA joint force) that is well-drilled, competently led, and coherent would be the only thing that could prevent a Clan Warship Armada from rolling through FedCom or Combine space. It would make for an interesting potential threat to the FWL Fleet that could lead to some interesting and tense situations if Atreus didn't want to get on board. That said the Fox still has to go in order to make space for a more evolved design to be replaced by the Kyushu if the FedCom Fleet is going to be a real threat in that domain.
Imagine the Yamato Battleships actually getting built and fighting alongside Mjolrnirs against the Bears and Falcons. That would be interesting. Might make for a good AU if Katherine is quietly carted away to an Abbey or Asylum. It would also give some pause for the Snow Ravens if they do move into the Outworlds Alliance as they have powerful Fleets nearby.
I think the Great Refusal in 3060 was probably a catalyst for a lot of strategic planning in the Clans so they might have been better prepared for Spheroid Warships and adjusted accordingly. During the initial invasion there probably might have been slack planning as they did anticipate rolling over the Inner Sphere so didn't need to bring their A-game.
Now the FCF can drill and gain the experience to become as good as the FWLM and approach Clan levels if they have time. I think the problem is that they don't really have time to develop a doctrine if there is to be a Jihad era showdown so you have to go with what you've got which is to switch over Fox production to a proper Space Warship that can complement the Avalon and all you have in the pipeline is the Durendal. Either that or order Impavidos for the Lyran Defensive Fleet from Tamarind or Kirishimas from the DCA by leveraging Theodore's appreciation for Victor (and probable marriage to Omiko despite what the Draconis March thinks).
Although now I kinda want to change my answer to 'Other' in that an 2SLDFleet (or even just FCF/DCA joint force) that is well-drilled, competently led, and coherent would be the only thing that could prevent a Clan Warship Armada from rolling through FedCom or Combine space. It would make for an interesting potential threat to the FWL Fleet that could lead to some interesting and tense situations if Atreus didn't want to get on board. That said the Fox still has to go in order to make space for a more evolved design to be replaced by the Kyushu if the FedCom Fleet is going to be a real threat in that domain.
Imagine the Yamato Battleships actually getting built and fighting alongside Mjolrnirs against the Bears and Falcons. That would be interesting. Might make for a good AU if Katherine is quietly carted away to an Abbey or Asylum. It would also give some pause for the Snow Ravens if they do move into the Outworlds Alliance as they have powerful Fleets nearby.
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General BattleTech Discussion / Re: Help finding Retrotech produced in the Jihad?
« Last post by Hellraiser on Today at 08:47:33 »This has me curious: the MUL has all three of these go extinct after the Late Republic era, presumably because Nimakachi of Lesnovo gears up to produce something else when the Blackout hits, but I'm not able to find out what. It's possible they went back to IndustrialMechs, since that's what was originally built there, but I don't know that that's likely, given the wider series of events at the time.
I suppose it's possible they upgraded the lines to standard Battlemechs, at which point the Wasp line is an easy conversion, at the same tonnage and engine rating. The Wolverine, though, uses a different size engine between its standard and primitive versions, and the primitive SHD-1R Shadow Hawk is only 50 tons, so it's even less of a direct conversion of the line.
For some reason I thought there was some fluff somewhere in a Republic product that did say a lot of the Retro did go away post Jihad when it was no longer "needed".
By either 1 of the 2 reasons you have. Revert to Industrial or Upgrade to Intro.
For the most part it was reverting to support "Stone's Peace".
What your probably seeing is that it took till the end of the Late Republic for the models in circulation to go extinct again over time.
Similar concept to how it took till the 2nd SW for a lot of SLDF designs to go "extinct" even though the factory making them was nuked in the Amaris Crisis.
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Ground Combat / Re: Clan Large Pulse Lasers
« Last post by OatsAndHall on Today at 08:40:49 »Honestly, I've come to the realization that people are going to b-tch, regardless of how equitable you try to make a game. I brought a couple of units with VSPs yesterday, got right on top of people and took advantage of the -3 TH. And, those units are cheap so I could afford gunnery 3 pilots which meant that I didn't miss often. Good Lord... The griping that went on... I almost packed up and went home. They run hot, their range is garbage and damage is range-dependent....
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BattleMechs / Re: Dark Age/IlClan AC-2, -5, -10, -20 Challenge
« Last post by Hazard Pay on Today at 08:28:23 »A Bushwacker config that has been showing up in the Hinterlands, particularly amongst the Tamar Pact.
Code: [Select]
Challenge Bushwacker
Mass: 55 tons
Chassis: Endo-Composite Biped
Power Plant: 275 XL
Cruising Speed: 54 kph
Maximum Speed: 86.4 kph
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Light Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
2 Medium Laser
1 AC/5
2 LRM 5
1 ER Large Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3145
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-E
Cost: 10,439,767 C-bills
Type: Challenge Bushwacker
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Tonnage: 55
Battle Value: 1,487
Equipment Mass
Internal Structure Endo-Composite 4.5
Engine 275 XL 8
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 0
Double Heat Sink 10 [20] 0
Gyro 3
Cockpit 3
Armor Factor (Light Ferro) 178 10.5
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head 3 9
Center Torso 18 27
Center Torso (rear) 8
R/L Torso 13 20
R/L Torso (rear) 6
R/L Arm 9 18
R/L Leg 13 23
Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm
Weapons
and Ammo Location Critical Heat Tonnage
ER Large Laser CT 2 12 5.0
Medium Laser RT 1 3 1.0
CASE II RT 1 - 1.0
Armor-Piercing AC/5 Ammo (20) RT 2 - 2.0
LRM 5 LA 1 2 2.0
Medium Laser LT 1 3 1.0
LRM 5 Thunder Ammo (24) LT 1 - 1.0
LRM 5 LT 1 2 2.0
LRM 5 Smoke Ammo (24) LT 1 - 1.0
Actuator Enhancement System RA 2 - 2.0
AC/5 RA 4 1 8.0
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General BattleTech Discussion / Re: Help finding Retrotech produced in the Jihad?
« Last post by Red Pins on Today at 08:27:47 »This has me curious: the MUL has all three of these go extinct after the Late Republic era, presumably because Nimakachi of Lesnovo gears up to produce something else when the Blackout hits, but I'm not able to find out what. It's possible they went back to IndustrialMechs, since that's what was originally built there, but I don't know that that's likely, given the wider series of events at the time.
I suppose it's possible they upgraded the lines to standard Battlemechs, at which point the Wasp line is an easy conversion, at the same tonnage and engine rating. The Wolverine, though, uses a different size engine between its standard and primitive versions, and the primitive SHD-1R Shadow Hawk is only 50 tons, so it's even less of a direct conversion of the line.
Apparently some of them keep producing the Primitive/Retrotech stuff long after the jihad, but it's outside the scope of my project, so...
Don't forget XTRO: Retrotech!
Not exactly what i needed, but yes.
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Clan Chatterweb / Re: Clan Fire Mandrill: Monkey Talk
« Last post by Alan Grant on Today at 08:22:14 »We've seen the Clans attach a Potemkin to one Galaxy before. The Scorpions in particular make it a common practice. They had 4 Potemkins and assigned each one to a Galaxy.
But I do wonder if the Jungle Heat was utilized to its full potential. They could have gone the Diamond Shark model, which used Potemkins as ships to carry a lot of merchant dropships and move a lot of cargo and materials around. Yet we see no canon evidence of that. All we see is a tense standoff between Mick-Kreese and Beyl-Grant and references to them occasionally poking at each other.
If that's all they did, was keep the Jungle Heat close by for use as a combatant warship, assuming she'd be needed for a naval engagement. Then she could have been rather underutilized. Her dropship collars reserved for military use, and the ship and crew constantly just staying prepared to fight another Kindraa in a naval engagement. Such a posture and mindset would have prevented her from traveling too far for very long. She still would have been valuable, but would have spent most of her time in systems where Mick-Kreese had a presence, moving dropships back and forth between just a few systems.
That kind of short-term thinking, and that need to always be ready to fight, feels very Mandrill to me.
But I do wonder if the Jungle Heat was utilized to its full potential. They could have gone the Diamond Shark model, which used Potemkins as ships to carry a lot of merchant dropships and move a lot of cargo and materials around. Yet we see no canon evidence of that. All we see is a tense standoff between Mick-Kreese and Beyl-Grant and references to them occasionally poking at each other.
If that's all they did, was keep the Jungle Heat close by for use as a combatant warship, assuming she'd be needed for a naval engagement. Then she could have been rather underutilized. Her dropship collars reserved for military use, and the ship and crew constantly just staying prepared to fight another Kindraa in a naval engagement. Such a posture and mindset would have prevented her from traveling too far for very long. She still would have been valuable, but would have spent most of her time in systems where Mick-Kreese had a presence, moving dropships back and forth between just a few systems.
That kind of short-term thinking, and that need to always be ready to fight, feels very Mandrill to me.
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General BattleTech Discussion / Re: What kind of Battletech player are you
« Last post by Col Toda on Today at 08:19:05 »I am a Total Warfare guy with advanced equipment. Many campaigns have ATOW elements as it is largly compatible. Alpha Strike Abtracts too much .
Noticed that ATOW is more prominent than Destiny . I sure got Buyers Remorse from that . I can see the desire to simplify the rules but they went wayyy too far . Thought they would have done a new addition of ATOW with a point buy priority base system with free packet of XP to round things up as well as adding + 100 XP per year over 18 or 21to apply anywhere depending on age . On my point buy it tended to be 31 year old Inner Sphere with 1000 XP to individualize and 21 Year old Clan for +300 to indidualize.
Noticed that ATOW is more prominent than Destiny . I sure got Buyers Remorse from that . I can see the desire to simplify the rules but they went wayyy too far . Thought they would have done a new addition of ATOW with a point buy priority base system with free packet of XP to round things up as well as adding + 100 XP per year over 18 or 21to apply anywhere depending on age . On my point buy it tended to be 31 year old Inner Sphere with 1000 XP to individualize and 21 Year old Clan for +300 to indidualize.
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Aerospace Combat / Re: FC Naval Command Decision
« Last post by Alan Grant on Today at 08:03:08 »The F-C doesn't have a lot of experience with warship-on-warship engagements either. So the idea that maybe the Clans are less than 100% fails to take into account that the current generation of F-C warship crews are practically amateurs. If the F-C were seasoned naval warfare experts I could see your point in a comparative light. From what I can tell, they are not.
I also feel like you are arguing that because Clans tends to relegate warships to support vessels (transport, command and control etc.), that they must not be very good. I'd argue that that the canon evidence tells us they are actually generally very good. However, I'd argue what's holding them back is doctrine, military culture and Clan norms. Not skill.
When we do see the Clans engage, like the McKenna-class Werewolf at Tharkad during the FedCom Civil War, it cripples the Yggdrasil. Seemed quite competent to me.
I think you are underselling the skill of the Clan warship crews. When the Jihad rolls around, and the Clan fleets get involved in the drive on Terra, the skill of their warship crews is commented on by many Spheroid leaders and admirals throughout the final Jihad era books. Particularly as they got closer toward Terra and in the final operations to take the Terran system from the Blakists. The Clan warship crews are talked up as being very skilled and very capable.
Here's a good one, after the fighting at the Titan Yards, (Jihad Hot Spots: Terra). Beresick is being interviewed by a reporter and says "These Clan crews are the finest naval crews I've ever had the pleasure to serve with and fight alongside."
The force he's referencing does indeed include some Snow Ravens, but also a lot of Bear, Falcon and one Wolf warship.
Also, yes, I know all of them aren't leviathans. But enough of them are that it's a problem. Especially if, as the original poster suggests, the Clans have concentrated their fleets into one fleet command. Amassing a few Black Lions/Camerons/Texas escorted by some destroyers and Aegis Cruisers, into 2-3 separate fleets attacking separate worlds within Lyran space at the same time is well within their combined capabilities.
The Jihad really is the best representation of what this threat looks like when allowed to demonstrate their full potential. Look at the Clan fleets and what they do during the Jihad. Look at how effective they are once they've decided to fully invoke their naval strength and combine their resources. Now imagine that happens in the 3060s and the target is the F-C. More specifically, as a F-C planner, you are probably thinking about things like defending key worlds such as Tharkad, Hesperus and so on, from a Clan massed naval onslaught.
That's the actual scale of the threat the original poster presents. If you are a F-C naval planner you respect what that threat represents and plan accordingly. You kinda have to plan for the worst case scenario. The original poster presents this as a "Command decision". So as a commanding admiral or Great House Leader at this time, do you plan for the worst or just hope for the best?
If you don't agree with me, that's fine. I've made my case and I'm not going to argue the point further. It was mostly written for the original poster to address their question since I checked the "Other" option in the survey.
I also feel like you are arguing that because Clans tends to relegate warships to support vessels (transport, command and control etc.), that they must not be very good. I'd argue that that the canon evidence tells us they are actually generally very good. However, I'd argue what's holding them back is doctrine, military culture and Clan norms. Not skill.
When we do see the Clans engage, like the McKenna-class Werewolf at Tharkad during the FedCom Civil War, it cripples the Yggdrasil. Seemed quite competent to me.
I think you are underselling the skill of the Clan warship crews. When the Jihad rolls around, and the Clan fleets get involved in the drive on Terra, the skill of their warship crews is commented on by many Spheroid leaders and admirals throughout the final Jihad era books. Particularly as they got closer toward Terra and in the final operations to take the Terran system from the Blakists. The Clan warship crews are talked up as being very skilled and very capable.
Here's a good one, after the fighting at the Titan Yards, (Jihad Hot Spots: Terra). Beresick is being interviewed by a reporter and says "These Clan crews are the finest naval crews I've ever had the pleasure to serve with and fight alongside."
The force he's referencing does indeed include some Snow Ravens, but also a lot of Bear, Falcon and one Wolf warship.
Also, yes, I know all of them aren't leviathans. But enough of them are that it's a problem. Especially if, as the original poster suggests, the Clans have concentrated their fleets into one fleet command. Amassing a few Black Lions/Camerons/Texas escorted by some destroyers and Aegis Cruisers, into 2-3 separate fleets attacking separate worlds within Lyran space at the same time is well within their combined capabilities.
The Jihad really is the best representation of what this threat looks like when allowed to demonstrate their full potential. Look at the Clan fleets and what they do during the Jihad. Look at how effective they are once they've decided to fully invoke their naval strength and combine their resources. Now imagine that happens in the 3060s and the target is the F-C. More specifically, as a F-C planner, you are probably thinking about things like defending key worlds such as Tharkad, Hesperus and so on, from a Clan massed naval onslaught.
That's the actual scale of the threat the original poster presents. If you are a F-C naval planner you respect what that threat represents and plan accordingly. You kinda have to plan for the worst case scenario. The original poster presents this as a "Command decision". So as a commanding admiral or Great House Leader at this time, do you plan for the worst or just hope for the best?
If you don't agree with me, that's fine. I've made my case and I'm not going to argue the point further. It was mostly written for the original poster to address their question since I checked the "Other" option in the survey.
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Aerospace Combat / Re: FC Naval Command Decision
« Last post by AlphaMirage on Today at 07:34:39 »I think we do need to take a good look at what the Clan Warships are capable of. Their crews and Commanders (except the Snow Ravens) are not well-drilled in Warship to Warship engagements because the Clans do see them as the Touman's interstellar FOBs. They might be called battlecruisers or the like but these are the SLDF designs with most of their mass in cargo capacity to support SLDF ground operations; without enough point defense, fighter cover, or armoring, all of those were meant to be provided by escorting carriers. Dangerous yes, but almost all of the Clans lack the strategic acumen to use them to the fullest due to ignorance. The threat was that a Snow Raven might rise to the ilKhanship and then direct the Clan's Naval Reserves and Toumans more effectively from a position of strength but the Snow Ravens fortunately didn't have that ambition.
Not all Clan Warships are Leviathans, all you need is some directed long range NPPC fire or a swift gunship to control the range and cripple a Warship, one that the Clans would likely struggle to replace while your yards are buzzing along. Meanwhile the Avalon handles incoming fighters and dropships with its missiles while occasionally sending out a few nukes. This is I think where the Durendal was meant to go with the Mjolnir originally occupying a patrol cruiser role like the Dart before it bulked up and became a battlecruiser. An Avalon is a tough Warship that can handle many others by saturating their point defense with missiles and causing critical damage, plus it will be fighting on its 'home' turf with aerospace and PWS support.
Not all Clan Warships are Leviathans, all you need is some directed long range NPPC fire or a swift gunship to control the range and cripple a Warship, one that the Clans would likely struggle to replace while your yards are buzzing along. Meanwhile the Avalon handles incoming fighters and dropships with its missiles while occasionally sending out a few nukes. This is I think where the Durendal was meant to go with the Mjolnir originally occupying a patrol cruiser role like the Dart before it bulked up and became a battlecruiser. An Avalon is a tough Warship that can handle many others by saturating their point defense with missiles and causing critical damage, plus it will be fighting on its 'home' turf with aerospace and PWS support.
