Author Topic: ’Mech of the Week: Executioner-B  (Read 9186 times)

Kerfuffin(925)

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3692
Re: ’Mech of the Week: Executioner-B
« Reply #30 on: 07 January 2023, 02:08:13 »
I'm not sure why people are surprised that the flawed predecessor of the Gladiator Omnimech is flawed.


It’s not so much surprise or anything. The question that started this revival was ‘does the Executioner-B offer anything in a pre-Mastodon world’. The general consensus seems to be not really, there are things that are almost as common and can do the job just as well. Plus the armor being silly and weak fixed JJs don’t help the situation.
NCKestrel’s new favorite.

SteelRaven

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9597
  • Fight for something or Die for nothing
    • The Steel-Raven at DeviantArt
Re: ’Mech of the Week: Executioner-B
« Reply #31 on: 07 January 2023, 08:02:51 »
It's not meant to compete with the Mastodon thought, it's canonically a much earlier machine.
Battletech Art and Commissions
http://steel-raven.deviantart.com

nova_dew

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 951
Re: ’Mech of the Week: Executioner-B
« Reply #32 on: 07 January 2023, 10:01:40 »

It’s not so much surprise or anything. The question that started this revival was ‘does the Executioner-B offer anything in a pre-Mastodon world’. The general consensus seems to be not really, there are things that are almost as common and can do the job just as well. Plus the armor being silly and weak fixed JJs don’t help the situation.

The thing that the Ex-Bee can do is pretend to be a Executioner and that'd be easier in a large double-blind game where deceptive Mech movement, and limited information are it's friend, such as bait-and-switch between the two types of Executioners, that's if the Executioner can get out of sensor range and the Ex-Bee can be positioned in a realistic place so the opponent doesn't twig right away, Executioner Prime goes into a confined mobility space (i.e a city), loses it's followers target lock, swaps places with an Ex-Bee Prime, surprise UAC20 and an opponent that wont follow for Executioner anymore. The mech has uses just not so much in a standard pick up game and that's fine and as much as BT isn't realistic, it adds some realism that not everything is designed for two map sheets and a hand full of turns, because that would be dull. 
A member of Clan Ghost Bears Legal Team

Vonshroom

  • Warrant Officer
  • *
  • Posts: 703
Re: ’Mech of the Week: Executioner-B
« Reply #33 on: 07 January 2023, 14:13:34 »
The thing that the Ex-Bee can do is pretend to be a Executioner and that'd be easier in a large double-blind game where deceptive Mech movement, and limited information are it's friend, such as bait-and-switch between the two types of Executioners, that's if the Executioner can get out of sensor range and the Ex-Bee can be positioned in a realistic place so the opponent doesn't twig right away, Executioner Prime goes into a confined mobility space (i.e a city), loses it's followers target lock, swaps places with an Ex-Bee Prime, surprise UAC20 and an opponent that wont follow for Executioner anymore. The mech has uses just not so much in a standard pick up game and that's fine and as much as BT isn't realistic, it adds some realism that not everything is designed for two map sheets and a hand full of turns, because that would be dull.

Honestly its not even good at that. The standard Executioner (B Config) offers similar usable firepower in a confined mobility space, like the city environment. It is way more usable in an urban / restricted mobility space due to its increased movement and jump jet range.

Looking at it the Executioner B-Prime can throw this down range and maintain heat neutral (without movement)
2 Large Pulse = 20 Damage
1 UAC 20 = 40 Potential Damage
_________________________
60 Total Damage (Potential) without overheating

Or swap out one of the LPLs for an ERPPC and throw 65 points for a +5.  Adding in the UAC/2s even if all shots land only add in a whopping 8 points to your full alpha... and say goodbye to your heat scale.


The Standard Executioner ( B Config) can throw the following down range and jump 4 / run and maintain heat neutral:
1 UAC 20 = 40 Potential Damage
1 ERPPC = 15 Damage
1 ERMlaser = 7 Damage
____________________________
Total: 62 Damage (Potential) without overheating

This version also has an AMS to defend against missiles and about the same rough damage output (while maintaining heat neutrality) as the Executioner B-Prime, all the while being able to run (or jump) circles around it. Also the armor difference is a staggering half a ton.


The Standard Executioner (C Config) can throw the following (while doing whatever movement it wants and bathing in inferno jelly or running with engine hits...):
1 UAC 20 = 40 Potential Damage
1 LRM 20 = 20 Potential Damage
1 ER Small = 5 Damage
__________________________
65 Damage (Potential)
Keep in mind the LRMS have artemis and that UAC/20 is Tarcomped so your odds of hitting with those 40 point double taps is insanely increased.

In every single scenario I'd rather take the Executioner over the B.

I'm not sure why people are surprised that the flawed predecessor of the Gladiator Omnimech is flawed.

Not surprised, it makes sense canonically, just pointing out that I don't see any use for it personally. It loses the flavor of the Executioner, and gains nothing over its counterparts. But by all means its not an unwelcome addition to the game and if you like it go for it!
For The Archon!

Kerfuffin(925)

  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3692
Re: ’Mech of the Week: Executioner-B
« Reply #34 on: 07 January 2023, 14:35:44 »
It's not meant to compete with the Mastodon thought, it's canonically a much earlier machine.

I never said it was. Hence the pre-mastodon world.

But it does serve the same purpose in universe. It’s a Ghost Bear friendly 3/5 assault Omni with guns.
NCKestrel’s new favorite.

SteelRaven

  • Lieutenant Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 9597
  • Fight for something or Die for nothing
    • The Steel-Raven at DeviantArt
Re: ’Mech of the Week: Executioner-B
« Reply #35 on: 07 January 2023, 15:16:30 »
Sorry, it was early and I misread.
Battletech Art and Commissions
http://steel-raven.deviantart.com

nova_dew

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 951
Re: ’Mech of the Week: Executioner-B
« Reply #36 on: 07 January 2023, 18:58:09 »
Honestly its not even good at that. The standard Executioner (B Config) offers similar usable firepower in a confined mobility space, like the city environment. It is way more usable in an urban / restricted mobility space due to its increased movement and jump jet range.

Looking at it the Executioner B-Prime can throw this down range and maintain heat neutral (without movement)
2 Large Pulse = 20 Damage
1 UAC 20 = 40 Potential Damage
_________________________
60 Total Damage (Potential) without overheating

Or swap out one of the LPLs for an ERPPC and throw 65 points for a +5.  Adding in the UAC/2s even if all shots land only add in a whopping 8 points to your full alpha... and say goodbye to your heat scale.


The Standard Executioner ( B Config) can throw the following down range and jump 4 / run and maintain heat neutral:
1 UAC 20 = 40 Potential Damage
1 ERPPC = 15 Damage
1 ERMlaser = 7 Damage
____________________________
Total: 62 Damage (Potential) without overheating

This version also has an AMS to defend against missiles and about the same rough damage output (while maintaining heat neutrality) as the Executioner B-Prime, all the while being able to run (or jump) circles around it. Also the armor difference is a staggering half a ton.


The Standard Executioner (C Config) can throw the following (while doing whatever movement it wants and bathing in inferno jelly or running with engine hits...):
1 UAC 20 = 40 Potential Damage
1 LRM 20 = 20 Potential Damage
1 ER Small = 5 Damage
__________________________
65 Damage (Potential)
Keep in mind the LRMS have artemis and that UAC/20 is Tarcomped so your odds of hitting with those 40 point double taps is insanely increased.

In every single scenario I'd rather take the Executioner over the B.

Not surprised, it makes sense canonically, just pointing out that I don't see any use for it personally. It loses the flavor of the Executioner, and gains nothing over its counterparts. But by all means its not an unwelcome addition to the game and if you like it go for it!

Or you pair the Ex-Bee with an Exe Prime, A or F, something that sacrifices a bit of damage for range so your opponent wants to follow you into what they think is favorable conditions and meet something with slightly more armour and pod space, this opponent then has to play which Exe is which Exe, no one ever said it had to be a good use
A member of Clan Ghost Bears Legal Team

Greatclub

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 3061
Re: ’Mech of the Week: Executioner-B
« Reply #37 on: 08 January 2023, 02:16:40 »
It lets you play an assault mech with the mini in the CI box, instead of an overweight heavy.

It's no daishi or blood asp, but most configs have much gun.
« Last Edit: 08 January 2023, 12:23:52 by Greatclub »

BATTLEMASTER

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2347
  • Hot and Unbothered
Re: ’Mech of the Week: Executioner-B
« Reply #38 on: 04 June 2023, 09:12:45 »
Question about the design OOC:  Was there any inspiration from MechWarrior 4 for the Burrock variant?  Perhaps my memory is failing, but I thought the stock MechWarrior 4 configuration for the "Gladiator" was a 50 kph assault 'mech with jump jets and a loadout similar, if not identical, to the Prime configuration of the Executioner-B.
BATTLEMASTER
Trombone Player, Lego Enthusiast, Engineer
Clan Smoke Jaguar, Delta Galaxy ("The Cloud Rangers"), 4th Jaguar Dragoons
"You better stand back, I'm not sure how loud this thing can get!"
If you like Lego, you'll like my Lego battlemech projects!

wantec

  • Freelance Writer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3876
Re: ’Mech of the Week: Executioner-B
« Reply #39 on: 04 June 2023, 20:31:59 »
I'd been meaning to ask. The publication date of the Executioner-B is unfortunate; though the concept has been around for years, its release post-dates the Mastodon.

In a universe where there is no Mastodon yet, is the Executioner-B of any use to the Ghost Bear player?
Missed this question before, but research for my own reasons yields all kinds of fun info.

Just looking at a pre-OG Executioner world (anything up to the year 3001), the Ex-B is THE assault Omni. Just take a look at the MUL for that timeframe http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Filter?Technologies=2&Technologies=3&MinIntro=2000&MaxIntro=3001

In the assault-Omni class you have Gargoyle, Naga II, Naga, Warhawk (only 2 years earlier in 2999), Kingfisher, Executioner (3001) and the Ex-B. Somewhat surprisingly other than the Ex-B, those are all faster assault Omnis at either 4/6 or 5/8, the Ex-B is the only 3/5 assault Omni. The Ex-B has literally tons (47) more pod space than the rest: 32.5 (Warhawk), 31.5 (Naga II), 24 (Kingfisher), 21.5 (Gargoyle). It has more pod space than the last two combined. If you want firepower and an OmniMech, the Ex-B is the way to go.

The Clans as a whole either thought the slow assault-Omni wasn't worthwhile or none of them thought they could improve on the Ex-B, at least until the "Ultimate Assault OmniMech" (according to TRO3050U) appeared in the form of the Dire Wolf.
BEN ROME YOU MAGNIFICENT BASTARD, I READ YOUR BOOK!


MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25839
  • It's just my goth phase
Re: ’Mech of the Week: Executioner-B
« Reply #40 on: 04 June 2023, 20:44:52 »
At the time of the Executioner B's appearance, what Clan mechs that moved 3/5 were there?  Off the top of my head, I can only think of the Behemoth, Kraken, Supernova, Rifleman IIC, and Highlander IIC.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

wantec

  • Freelance Writer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3876
Re: ’Mech of the Week: Executioner-B
« Reply #41 on: 04 June 2023, 21:01:51 »
At the time of the Executioner B's appearance, what Clan mechs that moved 3/5 were there?  Off the top of my head, I can only think of the Behemoth, Kraken, Supernova, Rifleman IIC, and Highlander IIC.
UrbanMech IIC
Rifleman IIC
Minsk
Wakazashi
Shogun C
Thunder Stallion
Emperor EMP-6A-EC
Highlander IIC
Supernova
Annihilator C
Atlas C
Stone Rhino/Behemoth
Devastator DVS-2-EC
Imp C
Kraken
BEN ROME YOU MAGNIFICENT BASTARD, I READ YOUR BOOK!


MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25839
  • It's just my goth phase
Re: ’Mech of the Week: Executioner-B
« Reply #42 on: 04 June 2023, 21:36:30 »
Hmm.  Bigger list than I thought.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

Greatclub

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 3061
Re: ’Mech of the Week: Executioner-B
« Reply #43 on: 04 June 2023, 23:32:40 »
Hmm.  Bigger list than I thought.

not really, several of those are basically extinct or limited to one clan by the 3000s.

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 25839
  • It's just my goth phase
Re: ’Mech of the Week: Executioner-B
« Reply #44 on: 05 June 2023, 01:47:52 »
Yeah, but I'd forgotten that about half of them even existed.
Warning: this post may contain sarcasm.

"I think I've just had another near-Rincewind experience," Death, The Color of Magic

"When in doubt, C4." Jamie Hyneman

BATTLEMASTER

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2347
  • Hot and Unbothered
Re: ’Mech of the Week: Executioner-B
« Reply #45 on: 05 June 2023, 06:14:16 »
In the context of era availability, the Executioner is a great choice for an assault omnimech if the Dire Wolf isn't even around yet, and by extension the Turkina.

How common is the chassis among the Clans?  Is it as common as the CGB Executioner and seen Clan-wide?
BATTLEMASTER
Trombone Player, Lego Enthusiast, Engineer
Clan Smoke Jaguar, Delta Galaxy ("The Cloud Rangers"), 4th Jaguar Dragoons
"You better stand back, I'm not sure how loud this thing can get!"
If you like Lego, you'll like my Lego battlemech projects!

wantec

  • Freelance Writer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3876
Re: ’Mech of the Week: Executioner-B
« Reply #46 on: 05 June 2023, 09:23:41 »
The only published material we have right now is the MUL and the entry in Shrapnel. There's not really any details on the distribution other than the fact its on the Homeworld Clans General distribution in the MUL from its introduction in 2873 up through 3019. After that the distribution narrows slightly to Clans Blood Spirit, Burrock, Cloud Cobra, Ghost Bear, Star Adder and Wolf up through the Jihad era. After that it is only Rasalhague Dominion through the Dark Age.

It could just be a unit to fill in those gaps from other products (the TRO entry for the Executioner, the novel description of Vlad's Executioner carrying more than it should, etc). Maybe it will show up in a future product, who knows.
BEN ROME YOU MAGNIFICENT BASTARD, I READ YOUR BOOK!


Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28994
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: ’Mech of the Week: Executioner-B
« Reply #47 on: 06 June 2023, 11:28:33 »
In the assault-Omni class you have Gargoyle, Naga II, Naga, Warhawk (only 2 years earlier in 2999), Kingfisher, Executioner (3001) and the Ex-B. Somewhat surprisingly other than the Ex-B, those are all faster assault Omnis at either 4/6 or 5/8, the Ex-B is the only 3/5 assault Omni. The Ex-B has literally tons (47) more pod space than the rest: 32.5 (Warhawk), 31.5 (Naga II), 24 (Kingfisher), 21.5 (Gargoyle). It has more pod space than the last two combined. If you want firepower and an OmniMech, the Ex-B is the way to go.

The Clans as a whole either thought the slow assault-Omni wasn't worthwhile or none of them thought they could improve on the Ex-B, at least until the "Ultimate Assault OmniMech" (according to TRO3050U) appeared in the form of the Dire Wolf.

Or they did not feel assault mechs grinding forward needed modular weapons as their task is typically the same- IE being that slow they needed a lot of long range weapons.  Do you really need to re-invent the Blood Kite, Supernova, Stone Rhino, or Imp as a Omni?  Or would you rather use your Omni design/production assets to design and build things like the Stormcrow, Timber Wolf or Adder- something that will have speed to be mobile and use the modularity?

Faster mechs are going to be able to set the place for the engagement, it makes sense you refit your production/inventory with meds & heavies having the first priority as the workhorses, then go down to lights, and finally address the assaults.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

wantec

  • Freelance Writer
  • Major
  • *
  • Posts: 3876
Re: ’Mech of the Week: Executioner-B
« Reply #48 on: 06 June 2023, 12:38:02 »
Yeah that was one possibility I listed with the "slow assault omni not being worthwhile". And that seems to be the case. Looking at the MUL, the next 3/5 assault Omni after the Ex-B was the the Dire Wolf in 3010, one year after the Dragoons had returned to the Clans for refitting and filing their first set of reports. It's quite possible that upon seeing those reports Clan Wolf decided that the extra firepower of a 3/5 assault Omni would make sense, that the extra mobility favored in Clan combat wasn't necessary in the IS. After the Dire Wolf in 3010, the Turkina was the next 3/5, but that didn't come until 3052. Then more came sooner, but still not a lot, Savage Coyote in 3059, Tomahawk in 3063, Osteon in 3072, Deimos in 3085, Tomahawk II in 3088. Things went dormant for a while until 3145 with the Regent and the Mastadon in 3148.
BEN ROME YOU MAGNIFICENT BASTARD, I READ YOUR BOOK!


Colt Ward

  • Lieutenant General
  • *
  • Posts: 28994
  • Gott Mit Uns
    • Merc Periphery Guide- Bakunin
Re: ’Mech of the Week: Executioner-B
« Reply #49 on: 06 June 2023, 12:51:04 »
I still think it would be interesting to see where the standard Clan mechs fall in on that- and I know folks have done the XL/SFE vs 4/6 or 3/5 discussions.  But yeah, my 'seige' designs at 3/5 do not really need other weapons the ERLL, ERPPC, Gauss Rifles, and LRMs.

Then again, does a Warhammer IIC or Marauder IIC balance against the Inner Sphere 3/5s?  I mean, as a Clanner I would feel my Marauder IIC vs a FedCom Devastator was a balanced match.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Hellraiser

  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 13091
  • Cry Havoc and Unleash the Gods of Fiat.
Re: ’Mech of the Week: Executioner-B
« Reply #50 on: 12 June 2023, 17:24:19 »
I still think it would be interesting to see where the standard Clan mechs fall in on that- and I know folks have done the XL/SFE vs 4/6 or 3/5 discussions.  But yeah, my 'seige' designs at 3/5 do not really need other weapons the ERLL, ERPPC, Gauss Rifles, and LRMs.

I'm fine w/ a 3/5 Omni-Assault.
My only complaint w/ the D-Wolf was the XL Engine.
If your that slow & that big, then the durability of SFE is worth it, not to mention the weight savings are better w/ a fast Medium.  (Assassin v/s Grendel is a big %)

While I do agree w/ those 4 weapons listed, there are other options that I would include that make me think Omni is worth it.
For example....    Artillery variants,  Pure LRM Variant,   Accuracy/Sniper variant (LPL+TC),   Juggernaut/Urban variant (AC20s, MLs, SRMs, & JJs)
3041: General Lance Hawkins: The Equalizers
3053: Star Colonel Rexor Kerensky: The Silver Wolves

"I don't shoot Urbanmechs, I walk up, stomp on their foot, wait for the head to pop open & drop in a hand grenade (or Elemental)" - Joel47
Against mechs, infantry have two options: Run screaming from Godzilla, or giggle under your breath as the arrogant fools blunder into your trap. - Weirdo

Gaiiten

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 1950
  • Can not get enough of BattleTech!
Re: ’Mech of the Week: Executioner-B
« Reply #51 on: 14 June 2023, 13:07:31 »
Would e interesting to know the stats of the Warlock Omnimech (mentioned in the article).
Crush yah enumhees, see dem drivun befor you, and hear de lamuntatuns of de veemon!

Visit my Deviantart: http://gaiiten.deviantart.com/

BATTLEMASTER

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2347
  • Hot and Unbothered
Re: ’Mech of the Week: Executioner-B
« Reply #52 on: 14 June 2023, 16:22:47 »
Would e interesting to know the stats of the Warlock Omnimech (mentioned in the article).

I bet it's another omnified SLDF design from the Pueblo Initiative, perhaps something lighter than 95 tons or something over 80 tons with less pod space than the Executioner-B
BATTLEMASTER
Trombone Player, Lego Enthusiast, Engineer
Clan Smoke Jaguar, Delta Galaxy ("The Cloud Rangers"), 4th Jaguar Dragoons
"You better stand back, I'm not sure how loud this thing can get!"
If you like Lego, you'll like my Lego battlemech projects!