AFFS High Command, Generals and Gentlemen

[ArkRoyalRavager]

By 3151 the only major industrial center in enemy hands is New Avalon. Victoria is not counted due to being a recent conquest too near a hostile border. With the exception of Robinson(which was never a major industrial player) and New Syrtis, the other industrial worlds are intact and back on a war footing.

The shipyards of Kathil, Delavan and Panpour are still there along with other smaller yards. The Suns still has the capability to commission WarShips from Kathil at least.

The problem is logistics(resupplying strung-out units through unsafe shipping lanes). High Command will have to muster new units on or near the industrial centers instead of PDZ capitals.

[Lord Harlock]

As much as I'd like a new Avalon class cruiser, we'd probably have a better chance of whatever secret Challenger System has barred bearing fruit at this point. My hope is for a ghost fleet of warships, but the likelihood of a modified Defender Class flanked by the missing FSS Andrew Davion and the FSS Brest plus a couple of refitted Congress Frigates with a refitted New Sytris Class Carrier bringing up the rear with legions of pocket warships and fighters to secure the space above New Avalon is probably folly as well. 

However, the oddest thing to me is that it took till roughly Julian Davion getting back to the Suns until the state and economy finally got itself into full military production. I mean it's not like the loss of two March Capitals should send signals to GM on Kathil that it might be time to shift some production of luxury cars over to other more vital things.  It's not like the Republic of the Sphere upperclass or even the Suns middle class family is saying to themselves you know I could really go for a new GM car right now when Capellan, Combine or Clanner invaders are beating down the door.

Though I have no idea what Aston Martin of Numenor really does for the Suns war effort. I do get a giggle out of the idea of Daoshen driving around in a Fiver that he commandeered when he went to give Duchess Bad Haircut a worst haircut on New Syrtis. Secretly he always wanted a fast sports car, but he just couldn't get one since it would look bad to be driving around in a Suns branded car even in the secluded parts of Sian. (Note, the Capellans are not listed as building any type of sports car, so they have to import. They do produce motorcycles on Sian through Mótuö Chë Shang. And probably Ceres Metals produces some sort of car. The company profiles in the House Sourcebooks and HandBooks probably do not give a full idea of the economies of any the states. I just find both the Combine and Confederation due to their economic structures in general to have inadequate company profiles.) Now if he took one in battle, that's a different story. So when he is not thinking about his sister Rita Repulsa in bizarre ways or thinking himself a 'god', he drives around in the Fiver that he always wanted as a kid, but Sun-Tzu said no. 

[Arkansas Warrior]

Everything hinges on New Avalon, it's not about the world or it's people.  It's not
about the industry (assuming we find any left), it's purely a symbol.  By retaking it, we
show the the people of the FS and the other powers the most important thing.  That
as a nation the Federated Suns, might bow sometimes but it will not break.

The images of the desecration of that world, will be worth regiments.  The anger of the
people, will only bolster resolve further.  The rebuilding of that world, will show that
we're always looking to make a better tomorrow.  We'll rebuild, retake and avenge what
has been lost.  But we'll do so by embodying the freedoms that define the Fed Suns, not
by torture, propaganda or murder.  By being better, being human and being ourselves.

I expect some sort of massively Churchillian monologue from Julian, when NA is retaken. 
If I can throw out the second paragraph of this, off the cuff in 2 minutes I expect a full
on work of outright defiance, hope and intent.  Anything wishy washy, I'll be genuinely
disappointed.

I’m hoping for a good Deus Vult! monologue from the new Pope of the NACC, and a massing of the Knights Defensor and whatever passes for a Swiss Guard in the NACC.  But I don’t know if the writers are going to want to go that direction.

[Lord Harlock]

To be fair, a new Pope of the NACC was probably invested probably on June after the massacre of Pope Beneficent XVII and most of the Cardinals of the New Avalon Catholic Church. It wouldn't surprise me if the new NACC Pope is a bit more Firebrand than previous NACC Popes considering he is probably from the Periphery March and the last Pope got murdered by the Combine. That tends to steer away from Pope Celestine V types.   

[ArkRoyalRavager]

As much as I'd like a new Avalon class cruiser, we'd probably have a better chance of whatever secret Challenger System has barred bearing fruit at this point. My hope is for a ghost fleet of warships, but the likelihood of a modified Defender Class flanked by the missing FSS Andrew Davion and the FSS Brest plus a couple of refitted Congress Frigates with a refitted New Sytris Class Carrier bringing up the rear with legions of pocket warships and fighters to secure the space above New Avalon is probably folly as well. 

However, the oddest thing to me is that it took till roughly Julian Davion getting back to the Suns until the state and economy finally got itself into full military production. I mean it's not like the loss of two March Capitals should send signals to GM on Kathil that it might be time to shift some production of luxury cars over to other more vital things.  It's not like the Republic of the Sphere upperclass or even the Suns middle class family is saying to themselves you know I could really go for a new GM car right now when Capellan, Combine or Clanner invaders are beating down the door.

Though I have no idea what Aston Martin of Numenor really does for the Suns war effort. I do get a giggle out of the idea of Daoshen driving around in a Fiver that he commandeered when he went to give Duchess Bad Haircut a worst haircut on New Syrtis. Secretly he always wanted a fast sports car, but he just couldn't get one since it would look bad to be driving around in a Suns branded car even in the secluded parts of Sian. (Note, the Capellans are not listed as building any type of sports car, so they have to import. They do produce motorcycles on Sian through Mótuö Chë Shang. And probably Ceres Metals produces some sort of car. The company profiles in the House Sourcebooks and HandBooks probably do not give a full idea of the economies of any the states. I just find both the Combine and Confederation due to their economic structures in general to have inadequate company profiles.) Now if he took one in battle, that's a different story. So when he is not thinking about his sister Rita Repulsa in bizarre ways or thinking himself a 'god', he drives around in the Fiver that he always wanted as a kid, but Sun-Tzu said no. 

The Ghost Bears commissioned one or two Leviathan III, the Ravens reactivated their fleet, so it's the best use of the James McKenna yards. Avalons or Foxes do make good task force leaders to tear the Cappies and Dracs a new one across their lines. It should be noted that Athena Davion-Ross was the previous Marshal of The Armies, and coming from an aerospace background she would have plenty of time to (secretly) build the AFFS aerospace and naval assets up before the Blackout.

Actually, from the prologue of Sword of Sedition, Harrison had the High Command mobilize the Suns economy and production to a war footing to augment their defense ever since the Blackout started. They even outright stated they needed all the time they could get to hold against the heavily-militarized Capellans. While Julian and Harrison went to Terra, the Marshal of The Armies and High Command were busy overseeing these efforts. Heck, that prologue even had scenes of defensive preparations in Kathil, yet in FM3145(more than a decade later), it states General Motors has "recently" proven that converting from civilian to military production is a very easy task, ignoring more than a decade's worth of production throughout the realm.

But from the timeskip to the 3145 era, there was apparently a retcon to make the Suns situation more desperate and its leadership more incompetent along with things like social generals, bureaucratic bloat, procurement corruption and Palmyra. Perhaps they were going for a Red Alert 2 vibe with Liao and Kurita standing in for the Soviets. Erik Sandoval was even retconned into "more politician than tactician", ignoring his defense against overwhelming odds at St Andre and a well-timed strike to relieve Caleb at New Hessen.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

I’m hoping for a good Deus Vult! monologue from the new Pope of the NACC, and a massing of the Knights Defensor and whatever passes for a Swiss Guard in the NACC.  But I don’t know if the writers are going to want to go that direction.

Now would be a good time for Julian to give "we shall fight on the beaches" and "this was their finest hour" speeches.

[Rorke]

Now would be a good time for Julian to give "we shall fight on the beaches" and "this was their finest hour" speeches.

That's my exact feeling, we need a full on swaggering "we shall fight them on the beaches" and no wishy
washy stuff.

As for the business of rebuilding, I'd echo you gentlemen.  It's only really New Avalon industrially that's a loss
as far as industry is concerned.  New Hessen wasn't really big enough to warrant too much concern, while it'd
be nice to have it back it's not critical.

As for the business of speculating on shipbuilding, oh yeah I think we all can imagine some glorious stuff.  But
honestly, I doubt TPTB are ever going to throw us that sort of sweetness.  Challenge Systems finally unveils
a number of nasty warships, I'd love it.  Poke the duplicious Ravens in the eye a couple of times, and then on
for a freebooting tour of savaging anything spaceworthy in Drac colours.  A chap can dream, but I doubt we'll
ever get so fortunate.  But perhaps we ought to.  Imagine scaring the actual hell out of our combined foes or
rivals, as we unveil the 32nd Century version of the original Dreadnought.  Wouldn't that, be something?

It'd not last forever, nor should it.  But imagine a significant advantage, for just a few years.  Time enough to
rebuild the AFFS, and retake as much as we can.  Well it was fun imagining it.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

Hopefully the Terran wars will become the graveyard for Liao and Kurita. That will be all the breathing room we'll ever need.

[Sharpnel]

Hopefully the Terran wars will become the graveyard for Liao and Kurita. That will be all the breathing room we'll ever need.

I'd rather it were the final resting place of the Clans, but we already that future is not pssible by the middle of the 33rd century.

[Paladin1]

I'm not going to speculate on why, primarily because I've not kept up on
the fiction.  Which does feel almost heretical, considering how keen I was to do so in earlier years.

I'm in the same boat Rorke and, quite honestly, it's kind of depressing to realize that, with a very few exceptions, I just don't care about the fiction any longer. 

I mean, I will admit that I enjoyed Pardoe's recent work, but I just don't care any longer about where the story goes.  The story has lost most of it's attraction because it doesn't seem to have any personal hooks to keep my attention. 

We had that with the older leaders such as Hanse and his generation, and we had that with Victor and his generation, but where is that same character development for the IlClan Era, especially if you're not a Wolf or Falcon? 

Did I miss a book or something?

I’m hoping for a good Deus Vult! monologue from the new Pope of the NACC, and a massing of the Knights Defensor and whatever passes for a Swiss Guard in the NACC.  But I don’t know if the writers are going to want to go that direction.

While I would absolutely LOVE to see a "Deus Vult!" moment from the NACC, along with all the associated reactions both within and without the Suns, we both know that the chances of that happening are somewhere between slim and none.

That's my exact feeling, we need a full on swaggering "we shall fight them on the beaches" and no wishy
washy stuff.

As for the business of rebuilding, I'd echo you gentlemen.  It's only really New Avalon industrially that's a loss
as far as industry is concerned.  New Hessen wasn't really big enough to warrant too much concern, while it'd
be nice to have it back it's not critical.

As for the business of speculating on shipbuilding, oh yeah I think we all can imagine some glorious stuff.  But
honestly, I doubt TPTB are ever going to throw us that sort of sweetness.  Challenge Systems finally unveils
a number of nasty warships, I'd love it.  Poke the duplicious Ravens in the eye a couple of times, and then on
for a freebooting tour of savaging anything spaceworthy in Drac colours.  A chap can dream, but I doubt we'll
ever get so fortunate.  But perhaps we ought to.  Imagine scaring the actual hell out of our combined foes or
rivals, as we unveil the 32nd Century version of the original Dreadnought.  Wouldn't that, be something?

It'd not last forever, nor should it.  But imagine a significant advantage, for just a few years.  Time enough to
rebuild the AFFS, and retake as much as we can.  Well it was fun imagining it.

While that would play to the British roots of the FedSuns, the truth is that we've always had a very strong French flavor as well to our forces, to the point that even our Navy tends to exist to support the Army rather than the other way around, as it would were we to truly mirror the Brits, so I wouldn't expect a secret Fleet or anything that would revolutionize naval warfare.  I would, however, expect something akin to a certain historical Corsican coming into power.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

I'd rather it were the final resting place of the Clans, but we already that future is not pssible by the middle of the 33rd century.

Exactly. So logically it will be a Liao and Kurita debacle. They better not cop out on the story with a stupid armistice as it would be very out of character for both factions who are built on ideologies of total conquest and total victory.

[Arkansas Warrior]

They already tried that and flubbed it (with a little help from a Ghost Knight).

[Rorke]

A tiny army and giant navy, well we've already got one faction
using that model.  It was a mere flight of fancy, a small but
ultimately unlikely fantasy.  But I've no interest, in seeing the
AFFS being like the pre WW1 British Army.  Well asides the
regimental system, which we already have.  I just liked the
idea of finally, having a mystery be worthy of the build up.

My desires for the AFFS are those of a larger, and proper
professional organisation.  We were heading that way once,
and then along came the bloody clans.  I don't mean that
in a disparaging sense towards the past/current AFFS.  But
just imagine one, where merit and ability trump how blue
your blood is.  Though with the current situation, I'd bet
that a lot of talent will shine and rise.  Irrespective of who
their parents are.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

They already tried that and flubbed it (with a little help from a Ghost Knight).

Any alliance between Liao and Kurita would inevitably break down anyway. After Liao makes his move on Terra, Kurita is bound to make a solo run too. Not doing so would cause another Black Dragon reaction to their ruling establishment.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

A tiny army and giant navy, well we've already got one faction
using that model.  It was a mere flight of fancy, a small but
ultimately unlikely fantasy.  But I've no interest, in seeing the
AFFS being like the pre WW1 British Army.  Well asides the
regimental system, which we already have.  I just liked the
idea of finally, having a mystery be worthy of the build up.

My desires for the AFFS are those of a larger, and proper
professional organisation.  We were heading that way once,
and then along came the bloody clans.  I don't mean that
in a disparaging sense towards the past/current AFFS.  But
just imagine one, where merit and ability trump how blue
your blood is.  Though with the current situation, I'd bet
that a lot of talent will shine and rise.  Irrespective of who
their parents are.

This will take a minimum of 10-20 years to rebuild the AFFS to 2581/3030/3062 levels, the golden years.

[Decoy]

One of the things that gets me the most about the draw down after the Jihad is that the FedSuns already had a plan to do it correctly. It's the one they used during the Star League. It was to stand down a few of the frontline units (in this case, I can see making more units into LCTs) and keep the Academies churning out troops. These troops would then head into the reserves after a tour or two and then when the time came, the AFFS could rapidly inflate. Instead, Harrison or Yvonne decided to taike a weedwhacker to the infrastructure of the AFFS and disbanded the training battalions'

[ArkRoyalRavager]

Disbanding the training battalions is understandable in the context of the time. The Stone kool-aid was in full flow, the Suns was in an economic boom, there seemed to be a dependable ally against Liao and Kurita.

Just look at interwar and post-Cold War Britain. They've been disbanding and amalgamating units like crazy in recent decades with Parliament going through the defense budget like a laser scalpel.

The current Suns would be like 1935-1939 Britain that's going through rearmament but in a much worse position.

[Rorke]

Well do bear in mind, we do have training battalions again.  Do also bear in mind
that the Suns has been on the ropes, but is looking like it's gotten a second wind.

The capital and the Thumb remain occupied, but we all know that the Kuritan hold
on these worlds is tenuous.  The DCMS is over stretched and logistically, at the end
of a very long supply line.   They're also heavily involved in the Terran corridor, where
sooner or later it's Clans they'll be facing.  They've also bumped into the Cappies in
at least one recorded incident.  The issue at hand, is how much has the AFFS got on
hand and ready, to strike back hard at an already weakened foe.  The initiative I believe,
is ours.

If 3-4 RCTs are available, the AFFS could start an avalanche.  Maybe it's not post
Kentares all over again, but panic is delightfully infectious sometimes.  All about
timing those strikes.  Oh and not discounting LCT sized formations, they bought
time lately and did sterling work on Robinson for example.  They also have a part
to play, use them to foment more trouble hitting and fading.  Regrouping with
larger forces, for more challenging objectives.  Hit hard enough and with enough
depth, panic ensues.

It's what I'd do if I was running the show, but I'm not.

I don't know how well the current military education system is working, but I'd
assume it's been expanded.  Considering the loss of 2 NA academies plus that
on Robinson, real damage has been done there.  But the FS has adapted to
such circumstances before, and there's plenty of lesser prestige facilities likely
swollen currently.  Two academy worlds are back in our possession, though
they'll not likely be much use for a few years.

As for actual production of military mechs and vehicles, I can only imagine that
it's very much all hands on deck.  There've been allusions to the ability of some
larger manufacturers, to tilt towards war materiel.  The FS is down only one
significant production hub right now, New Avalon.  Robinson and New Syrtis have
both been reclaimed.  We never lost Crofton, Kathil, New Valencia or El Dorado.
I've not even mentioned a few other places in the above list.  Sure we know
neither Robinson or New Syrtis, are likely to be unscathed.  But we have time
now, what they cannot give us today they'll likely do tomorrow.

I remain optimistic.  As ever.

[(SMD)MadCow]

Did someone say we got the factories on Talon back?

[Decoy]

We got new Kallon factories on Wernke. I do hpe they produce the RFL-7X there. It's my favorite Rifleman.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

The capital and the Thumb remain occupied, but we all know that the Kuritan hold
on these worlds is tenuous.  The DCMS is over stretched and logistically, at the end
of a very long supply line.   They're also heavily involved in the Terran corridor, where
sooner or later it's Clans they'll be facing.  They've also bumped into the Cappies in
at least one recorded incident.  The issue at hand, is how much has the AFFS got on
hand and ready, to strike back hard at an already weakened foe.  The initiative I believe,
is ours.

If 3-4 RCTs are available, the AFFS could start an avalanche.  Maybe it's not post
Kentares all over again, but panic is delightfully infectious sometimes.  All about
timing those strikes.  Oh and not discounting LCT sized formations, they bought
time lately and did sterling work on Robinson for example.  They also have a part
to play, use them to foment more trouble hitting and fading.  Regrouping with
larger forces, for more challenging objectives.  Hit hard enough and with enough
depth, panic ensues.

IF the Cappies and Dracs start fighting the Clans, the AFFS would have no problem reclaiming every Davion world lost since 3085, as it is a matter of helping pro-Davion natives getting back their worlds. The real attrition happens only if counterattacking into territories long-held by enemies.

[Rorke]

Then we don't invite attition or foolish risks.  We leave the Cappies alone until either we're
stronger, or they're substantially worn down by others.  Or both, ideally that.

The Kuritans are all we should concentrate on currently, as far as offensively.  That supply
situation, across that sort of distance.....invites mischief.  There are political angles to play
too.  Maul the living daylights out of a premier unit or two, and I mean actively gut them.   
We'll see how resolute the Warlords are, when their pet units don't come home....or limp
home in a mess. 

I guess I'm just wanting to see something substantial, mention made of clever moves
made by the FS and it's forces.  Other factions feared the AFFS once, it's high time the
writers recalled that and made it so.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

Well, the AFFS has had a decade of hard-earned experience to temper the raw recruits. Any social generals would be dead or veterans by now. Making the right moves should be within its capability.

A problem is one or two LCTs can match or best an average hostile regiment. If it is against an SoL/Ryuken/one of the Dragon's X units, the AFFS better have enough RCTs or multiple LCTs to concentrate on them or it will be a mutual meat grinder.

Before taking the CCAF on, Julian should engage Nikol Marik on the benefits of a simultaneous invasion timed with any Clan move.

[Rorke]

Well, the AFFS has had a decade of hard-earned experience to temper the raw recruits. Any social generals would be dead or veterans by now. Making the right moves should be within its capability.

A problem is one or two LCTs can match or best an average hostile regiment. If it is against an SoL/Ryuken/one of the Dragon's X units, the AFFS better have enough RCTs or multiple LCTs to concentrate on them or it will be a mutual meat grinder.

Before taking the CCAF on, Julian should engage Nikol Marik on the benefits of a simultaneous invasion timed with any Clan move.

I like the line of thinking regards Marik.

Going back to LCTs though, let's not forget the DCMS has trimmed their formations down to 2 battalions of
mechs.  Not all admittedly, but the bulk of the standard regiments are not that different from a strong LCT
or two regular LCT sized formations.  I see that sort of size spread across all those garrisons, and smell
opportunity. 

[Doc Swift]

Geez, with no HPGs, how long would it take to travel back and forth to arrange a meeting, then travel to hold the meeting, then return to begin the simultaneous attack? A year? By that time, the joint operation might well be meaningless as the strategic situation could change on both borders. This lack of HPGs is a real issue in such regards.

[nerd]

I have to admit, the power trip given to the Dracs turned me off the Dark Age and post story line.

On the other hand, I did write a classic era wet navy fan unit up on the Fan Units section.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

I like the line of thinking regards Marik.

Going back to LCTs though, let's not forget the DCMS has trimmed their formations down to 2 battalions of
mechs.  Not all admittedly, but the bulk of the standard regiments are not that different from a strong LCT
or two regular LCT sized formations.  I see that sort of size spread across all those garrisons, and smell
opportunity.

That's why I mentioned those were the average units. The Sword of Light/Ryuken and Dragon's X units on the other hand are really good and hard to take on even terms. Still, without the Dragoons, you are right that the opportunity is definitely there.

[ArkRoyalRavager]

Geez, with no HPGs, how long would it take to travel back and forth to arrange a meeting, then travel to hold the meeting, then return to begin the simultaneous attack? A year? By that time, the joint operation might well be meaningless as the strategic situation could change on both borders. This lack of HPGs is a real issue in such regards.

There are still functional HPGs for strategic communications. In any case, what you said didn't deter Liao and Kurita from their joint attacks, so Marik and Davion can definitely attack on a general plan with the details left to their discretion.

[Arkansas Warrior]

Also, no one necessarily needs to travel to make arrangements.  You can send messages on jumpships for that.  You can beam an encrypted file to a ship headed the right direction a lot faster than you can transfer a person.

[Lord Harlock]

There are still functional HPGs for strategic communications. In any case, what you said didn't deter Liao and Kurita from their joint attacks, so Marik and Davion can definitely attack on a general plan with the details left to their discretion.

There was an interesting tidbit in Blood Will Tell. Basically, the disabled HPGs can still receive, but they can't broadcast.