Mech of the Week - Hatchetman

[glitterboy2098]

hatchetman i think. though the mod described was to add in a LL instead of one of the ML's.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I remember in one of the novels or Merc Handbook write ups the GDL being described as mod'ing their melee weapon 'Mechs by removing the axes to stick on more sensible weapons. Not sure if it was Axman or Hatchetman designs they were talking about without finding the reference though.

That was in Operation: Excalibur.  Grayson was arriving at Defiance Industries and thinking about all the mechs they built.  When he thought about the Hatchetman, he opined that the hatchet was a pointless gimmick that he urged GDL pilots to drop in favor of more lasers or armor.

[Empyrus]

Huh, i just realized the only Spheroid factions that do not have a Hatchetman variant are ComStar/WoB and CapCon.
The latter is especially sad, as they would've fitted it with TSM most certainly.

I'll go brainstorm versions for both factions...

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Why would the CapCom produce a Hatchetman variant when they already produce the Ti Tsang?

[Empyrus]

I really don't bother consider whether it makes sense or not.

Didn't come up with any interesting variations. Mostly simple weapon swaps: Sword, TSM, Plasma Rifle for Cappies, Heavy PPC and C3i for WoBlies. Eh. Considered a Retractable Blade for the WoB version but that would be just gimping it even further.

And frankly, a melee BattleMech doesn't quite feel like what the WoB would use, Manei Domini aside.

*shrug*

Is there any reason why the Kurita variant of the Hatchetman is so... late?

[SteelRaven]

Huh, i just realized the only Spheroid factions that do not have a Hatchetman variant are ComStar/WoB and CapCon.
The latter is especially sad, as they would've fitted it with TSM most certainly.

I'll go brainstorm versions for both factions...

ComStar did have access to Hatchetmans apparently (Ideal War, the mentally unbalanced Spinard piloted a Hatchetman) though the WoB may have favored their own Buccaneer once it reached full production.

As for CapCon, think the Vindicator 5L was their answer to the Hatchetman (TSM and a Sword, ouch)

[glitterboy2098]

IIRC Spinard and the others in that mech lance (along with the Infantry they were working with) were mercenaries. the only non-merc in that unit was Paul Master's. (who due to his "observer" status and being on loan from the Knights of the Inner Sphere, was basically a rather more official Merc..)

that said, i'm pretty sure that the WOB could have bought hatchetmen. maybe not the most recent versions but between the mercenary market and the blackmarket i suspect that if they wanted them they could get them.

especially if your right about the Taurian's making them. (wasn't that retcon'd away awhile back as a mistake?)

[Weirdo]

In Alpha Strike, Hatchetmen gain from the standardization of melee damage. All mediums hit for a given amount of damage, but the +1 damage from the melee weapon means that a Hatchetman literally punches above its weight, hitting as hard as any heavy mech. They also have a melee range advantage, though I'd probably want to get to pointblank range anyway, where your opponent has no choice but to use melee attacks, and thus you have the advantage.

[Valtech]

If you treat the Hatchet like a ground pounder treats his bayonet...(the weapon that never runs out of ammo...) its of
some use. Just having the thing means the Hatchetman at least is never without a weapon...unless you manage to
damage the axe. I have used the mech a time or two in scratch games...mind its weakness and its of use.

[Terrace]

I actually think the early variants make a certain amount of sense in how un-optimized they are. I mean, it's the first BattleMech ever to carry a dedicated melee weapon. There's gonna be missteps early on as MechWarriors and designers figure out how to make a Hatchet work in 'Mech-to-'Mech combat.

[Kojak]

I actually think the early variants make a certain amount of sense in how un-optimized they are. I mean, it's the first BattleMech ever to carry a dedicated melee weapon. There's gonna be missteps early on as MechWarriors and designers figure out how to make a Hatchet work in 'Mech-to-'Mech combat.

That makes sense if you're just talking about the 3F, but the later variants don't have that excuse.

[cavingjan]

I'd throw the 5S in with the 3F. The War of 39 shaped the 5S but the 5S was also a case of tinkering with new tech.

[Wrangler]

Funny think, thinking about past novels.  Tara Campbell, Countess of Northwind, last commander of the Northwind Highlanders' signature Mech was the Hatchetman.    She had went one-v-one with a Warhammer IIC in capital on Skye, where she basically jumped beside one, slices into it's leg actuator and ejected her "head module" as she stackpoled the mech to try slow it down.   Leaving fragment of the hatchet fused in the Warhammer IIC.

[Kidd]

Funny think, thinking about past novels.  Tara Campbell, Countess of Northwind, last commander of the Northwind Highlanders' signature Mech was the Hatchetman.    She had went one-v-one with a Warhammer IIC in capital on Skye, where she basically jumped beside one, slices into it's leg actuator and ejected her "head module" as she stackpoled the mech to try slow it down.   Leaving fragment of the hatchet fused in the Warhammer IIC.

Yeah she uses the 5D with the Ultra AC. Was also in a Hatchetman when she went to Terra.

IMHO the only time to use the axe is to finish off Mechs with <10 structure in the torso but well armoured legs, or when hoping for head where the head has taken at least 3 damage. Or for fun, non-optimal purposes, which are absolutely valid too.

[CrossfirePilot]

jumping into this a little late, but only one comment "most mechs weren't even optimized during the height of the star league, why expect one to be optimized that was created after two centuries of decline"

[SteelRaven]

Yeah, you would think players would be more forgiving in a universe where the Shadowhawk 2D and Awesome 9M exist ;)

 

[Nikas_Zekeval]

Yeah, you would think players would be more forgiving in a universe where the Shadowhawk 2D and Awesome 9M exist ;)

I can see where you come from with the Shadowhawk, but what's your beef with that Awesome upgrade?  They basically took the original design, added more reach and speed, a bit more armor, and some in close guns for the primary tactic against one, infantry and fast movers just out of reach of a kick.

[SteelRaven]

I can see where you come from with the Shadowhawk, but what's your beef with that Awesome upgrade?  They basically took the original design, added more reach and speed, a bit more armor, and some in close guns for the primary tactic against one, infantry and fast movers just out of reach of a kick.

Your speaking to one of the only fans here who doesn't complain about it. Everyone else sees the XL as a liability compared to the zombie durability of the 8Q or have the bad luck having the SRM ammo go off and taking out the legs. I actually like it speaking as a Warhammer fan (it's still 3 ER PPCs running at you at  64 kph) but I see why others see it as a unoptimize design when it was followed up by the damn near unkilliable Awesome 9Q. There are far worse examples but the 9M is the one mech many gnashing their teeth when it comes to 3050 upgrades

Point being, many design in the BTU are flawed... hell, the Urbie and Charger have a cult following because they are so damn bad. So speaking as someone who got the cockpit of their Timber Wolf bashed in by a Hatchetman at the opening of a game, whatever the Hatchetman lacks it makes up for in style.

[JadedFalcon]

The AWS-9M has problems for anyone who insists on using the floating crits rule. Makes getting a hip actuator shot out a preferable result to the ammo bin. I'm a fan of the 9M, but not the floating crit rule.

The Hatchetman is another mech I've fought against often but never used. The HCT-3F has a place in introtech games that see a large number of 4/6 mechs. Once it closes, the Hatchetman can latch onto its prey and keep it from putting distance between them. This has been a death-sentence for something like a Vindicator that is saddled with minimum range penalties. The HCT-6D is rather impressive, but it should stay out of melee with anything that's much larger than itself. Last time I fought one, it was tossing out good damage until my Crusader left it with one leg at the bottom of a lake.

The HCT-5K still sparks perplexed discussion on what circumstances the sword could be more useful than the MPL in the same arm. Best excuse I've come up with is a bonus to parry a physical attack, meaning neither the sword or MPL was even used to attack.

[CrossfirePilot]

The could have made it worse, considering every 3rd mech in 3025 TRO has a 400 point bomb placed in it somewhere. 

[Nikas_Zekeval]

The could have made it worse, considering every 3rd mech in 3025 TRO has a 400 point bomb placed in it somewhere.

Not to mention with floating crit rules, well by the time you take the TAC, float it to the leg, and actually get a crit?  You are looking at an average of one critical hit, for slightly over every 600 shots that hit you.  Even as LB-X pellets that is two-thirds more than the combined max armor (front and back) and all structure.  And that doesn't guarantee the crit will be ammo.  It's a black swan event, vanishingly rare, but highly memorable.  Just don't give the infantry opportunity for a leg attack, and be ready to get behind hard partial cover if the armor gets thin on that leg.

[garhkal]

The could have made it worse, considering every 3rd mech in 3025 TRO has a 400 point bomb placed in it somewhere.

While i understand the use of machine guns, i have never understood mechs putting in a full ton when they have only one (or sometimes rarely 2) guns to use that ammo..  especially when you consider 5 machine guns on a mech with half a ton, gets 20 rounds of combat with all 5 guns (and no heat).. 

[Colt Ward]

Because they came out before the rules allowing half tons of MG ammo.

The Hatchetman can be fun, its a flavor piece IMO.  I enjoyed it in MWDA, thought it was silly Tara ran one but I had a half dozen as they where one of the more common mechs in that game.  I have not really used one in TW . . .

My favorite Hatchetman in fluff was the one the Chaos Irregulars had with a pilot whose nickname was something like '40 whacks' because her last name was Borden.  To me that is the poetic bit that goes with a Hatchetman.

[JadeHellbringer]

I recall seeing a campaign mod years ago around here in which someone pulled a Hatchetman's axe in a periphery operation due to damage and replaced it with a ridiculous hand-cannon array of rocket launchers, but I can't find it now. Suffice to say, that'll bruise.  ;D

[mbear]

One upgrade I've done against the DCMS is to drop the AC/10 and replace it with an MRM40. Same range, but seeing 40 missiles at a time coming at you is...unnerving.

Plus it means that somewhere the front line DCMS machine lost to my ancient DMM lance, which can be upsetting.

[Moonsword]

Everything's fun and games until your mis-aimed missiles obliterate the Earl's hover-limo.  _{Then he thanks you for justifying his upgrade to this year's model.}

I do like the way the MRMs play with the hatchet's encouragement to get close anyway.  The burn of using them against the DCMS is even better.

[grimlock1]

Depending on the other player, Hachetmen can act like a magnet.  Take a moment to remember magnets attract AND repel. People like SteelRaven are probably going to be a bit gunshy about Hatchetmen, especially in a city. If your options are to advance through a city or across the field adjacent to the city, then I'm going to do everything I can to make you dread the idea of moving into that city, where you are just asking to get mugged by these piddly little, jumpy, backslashy so & so's.   I'll spend the entire set up cackling, "Hatchetman, CHOP," and telling horror stories from the forums about mech's getting chopped to peices.

Then once I've convinced you to swing wide of the city, I can engage you on open terrain, with supporting fire from a couple Hatchetmen, hiding among the buildings. 

On the other hand, if you see Hatchetmen as thin skinned, gimmicky and more or less harmless, I'll use the hatchetmen to lure you into streets where my lancemates have good fields of fire.