Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread II - READ THE FIRST POST

[Daryk]

That worries me a bit... where is the line between expense and avaiability?   ???

I understand the former impacts the latter, but that line is imporant.  The former is player constrained, while the latter is constrained by TPTB...

[Sartris]

Availability isn’t “can have.” Its “has.” The whys are up to you. Any player creation automatically is non canon. However you decide to reconcile the existence of your non-canon unit is up to you

[Daryk]

Up to me and my opponent... somewhat lessening the use of the MUL...  :-\

[Sartris]

Here I thought we were avoiding dictating exactly what players could and could not use

This isn’t meant to be complicated. A unit with a listed availability means that using that unit within the context of that faction’s force is representative and not out of the ordinary. Using something like a MAD-3M in a Kurita company would not be representative. The MUL isn’t in the business of saying such an occurrence is strictly impossible (except in the case of extinct units, and even then... who knows what was stashed in that SLDF bunker), but instead very rare - and creates the opportunity for interesting storytelling. Whether something is in the possession of a certain faction is not our responsibility to explain. We make certain inferences based on printed and internal resources. Player-imagined discrepancies are outside of our purview

[Daryk]

Any tool can be abused... I appreciate what you and the team are doing here!  :thumbsup:

[BaldDen]

Hi! Huntsman's new variants from RGIC12 have mass of 45 tons

[GreekFire]

Snip

OK, sorry for the delay here. The list of things you found are all valid and have been fixed.

Hi! Huntsman's new variants from RGIC12 have mass of 45 tons

Thank you, fixed.

[Sartris]

My campaign of carnage has largely wrapped itself up (I’ve run out of victims).

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Era/FactionEraDetails?FactionId=3&EraId=16

Overall we’re above 90% on units with complete era stats. This includes homeclan units that have had crime scene tape plastered over their post-3085 fates. The last big hole is Star League in exile and early Clan to 2900, which involves over 600 units (including those we have to make decisions on whether they were taken on EXODUS or not).

It’s been a very productive two and a half months. Keep the reports coming on any weirdness you find. The team is grateful for the assistance

[Maingunnery]

It seems that in the MUL that Clan Mongoose managed to survive into the late succession wars era.

[Maingunnery]

An idea: What about an Late Age of War era? (2439-2570)
This would start with the introduction of the Mackie.

[Sartris]

It seems that in the MUL that Clan Mongoose managed to survive into the late succession wars era.

jaguars can't do anything right. i swear to god.

An idea: What about an Late Age of War era? (2439-2570)
This would start with the introduction of the Mackie.

that thud you heard was cavingjan having an aneurism and collapsing into a heap

[GreekFire]

that thud you heard was cavingjan having an aneurism and collapsing into a heap

I did a ton of research into the Age of War for a fan article series I was planning at one point.
Long story short, I'm right there with him.

[Scotty]

The last big hole is Star League in exile and early Clan to 2900, which involves over 600 units (including those we have to make decisions on whether they were taken on EXODUS or not).

This one feels easy, at least.  If it was SLDF availability, and there's not a source that says "none of these were taken" then it should be there.  Whether the actual numbers match up (i.e. there are 600 designs on here but the SLDF-in-Exile only had 500 BattleMechs left at the time of the Second Exodus in some obscure reference) is irrelevant, since the only reasonable thing availability should be trying to determine is whether or such and such design could have been included in whatever number of 'Mechs that ends up being.

[Sartris]

I agree. The biggest challenge is the clan mechs themselves.

The IS mechs that didn’t go will mostly get extincted out. The ones in clan space will likely be gone or end up on HW general by ~2900. The main task is deciding

[nckestrel]

This one feels easy, at least.  If it was SLDF availability, and there's not a source that says "none of these were taken" then it should be there.  Whether the actual numbers match up (i.e. there are 600 designs on here but the SLDF-in-Exile only had 500 BattleMechs left at the time of the Second Exodus in some obscure reference) is irrelevant, since the only reasonable thing availability should be trying to determine is whether or such and such design could have been included in whatever number of 'Mechs that ends up being.

Just because this is the MUL thread, not Scotty's opinion thread, none of the above is what the MUL does.

Specifically, it is our job to decide what is or is not available, as in what a faction actually has or doesn't have. If we decide the SLDF took Mackies on the Exodus, then they took Mackies.  If we decide the SLDF didn't take... Kyudos, then they didn't take Kyudos.  It's our job to fill in the gaps of availability, and we are no more limited in making that decision than any writer would be.  A major point of the MUL is to answer the question of what units are available to who and when, when other sources will never be able to cover all the questions.

[Kerfuffin(925)]

Stormcrow P has a damage value of 4/4/2*

What does the asterisk mean? Or just get rid of it

[GreekFire]

Stormcrow P has a damage value of 4/4/2*

What does the asterisk mean? Or just get rid of it

The asterisk is minimal damage for that range bracket; it looks like it got checked by accident.
Fixed!

[cavingjan]

On the factions page, everything under a main heading is what makes up that General list.
The Inner Sphere General list means all the factions listed under Inner Sphere have it (assuming that faction is in that era).
Mercenaries are not under Inner Sphere, so they are not included when something says Inner Sphere General, but not Mercenaries.

I want to add to this a little. Sometimes factions do change their main group. Some of the clan factions have moved from IS Clan General to HW Clan General or the other way. I thought there was another but I don't remember who it was now.

[worktroll]

The JES III Standard and JES III C3 get IF4, but not LRM2/4/4, in their stat lines, while the JES III Speed does.

All have the same armament of four LRM-15s with no Artemis, etc.

Recommend adding LRM2/4/4 to the Standard and Speed versions - so

JES II Standard: IF4, LRM2/4/4, SRCH, TUR(2/4/4, IF4, LRM2/4/4)

JES II C3: C3S, IF4, LRM2/4/4, MHQ1, SRCH, TUR(2/4/4, IF4, LRM2/4/4)

Thanks!

[Karasu]

The Swift 606( http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3141/swift-swf-606 ) is marked as having Rear-mounted weapons on its Alpha Strike card.  I do not believe it does.  Recomended action: remove the special ability.

[Empyrus]

The Sarath-A should be labeled mixed
http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/6507/sarath-srth-1oa

[Sartris]

yup. one of those copy/paste errors probably. fixed

[Sartris]

It may have avoided most people's notice, but we've made changes to how the Free Worlds League is listed in the Jihad through Dark Ages eras. The Free Worlds League tag represents the League prior to their breakup in 3079 and after the reunification in 3139. There were some inconsistencies in the way the tag was used.

We added a new sub-faction—Free Worlds League (Non-Aligned Worlds)—to represent a group that was previously unrepresented. Units that had been assigned to the general FWL faction were given availability to all seven sub-factions. Now one must simply look at one of the sub-factions and Inner Sphere General to get the entire spate of units used by them during these eras. [The faction links represent a search of both of these groups.] The pan-Free Worlds League faction was removed from both the Early and Late Republic Eras since all units had been unassigned from it.

The seven FWL sub-factions are:
Duchy of Andurien
Duchy of Tamarind-Abbey
Marik-Stewart Commonwealth
Oriente Protectorate
Regulan Fiefs
Rim Commonality
Non-Aligned Worlds

How exactly things are handled after 3150 will be decided once the shape of the Inner Sphere becomes more clear. 

[Rainbow 6]

It may have avoided most people's notice, but we've made changes to how the Free Worlds League is listed in the Jihad through Dark Ages eras. The Free Worlds League tag represents the League prior to their breakup in 3079 and after the reunification in 3139. There were some inconsistencies in the way the tag was used.

We added a new sub-faction—Free Worlds League (Non-Aligned Worlds)—to represent a group that was previously unrepresented. Units that had been assigned to the general FWL faction were given availability to all seven sub-factions. Now one must simply look at one of the sub-factions and Inner Sphere General to get the entire spate of units used by them during these eras. [The faction links represent a search of both of these groups.] The pan-Free Worlds League faction was removed from both the Early and Late Republic Eras since all units had been unassigned from it.

The seven FWL sub-factions are:
Duchy of Andurien
Duchy of Tamarind-Abbey
Marik-Stewart Commonwealth
Oriente Protectorate
Regulan Fiefs
Rim Commonality
Non-Aligned Worlds

How exactly things are handled after 3150 will be decided once the shape of the Inner Sphere becomes more clear.

Nice, but shouldn't the non-aligned worlds have access to the Wasp -3M in the Jihad era?

[Sartris]

we only fiddled with ER, LR, and DA. applications to the late 3070s remain spotty. the wasp 3M would be part of a much broader late jihad review

[Kerfuffin(925)]

I’d really like to see quirks listed on the MUL. I heard they got an update in the new Campaign Ops, it would be the time.  ;)

[CVB]

I’d really like to see quirks listed on the MUL. I heard they got an update in the new Campaign Ops, it would be the time.  ;)

Strongly seconded!

[Kerfuffin(925)]

Why does the Ras Dom only have 3 Adder variants? Seems kinda weird to limit Omni confit availability. If you got one you got them all (aside from the Society ones obvi)

[Sharpnel]

Probably a question of tactics that the Gjost Bear touman uses. Certain configs may not fit their tactical doctrine.

[Sartris]

This is worth investigating. Normally access to the Omni chassis gives access to all configs outside of specialized ones. We’ll look into it