Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)

[Giovanni Blasini]

So, in a California Nebula based fanfic I'm working on, Herb made the following comment:

Honestly, I would see a classic Griffin body as an ideal place to start if one wanted to make a Bluestreak/Prowl/Jazz/Smokescreen type of wheeled AutoMech. But judging by the dialog, Groundwave is likely on track for a plain ol' non-convertible form.

- Herb

So, in the next post, I explored the idea a little bit, and I decided to go ahead and try to slot in a medium wheeled AutoMech that fits between the smaller 35-ton Beetle/Ender class and the larger 60-ton Sounder/VeeMech class wheeled AutoMechs.

I'm starting with trying on a 50-ton version for size.  That has the benefit of being the same mass as the Seeker class, and using the same fusion plant though, in the end, I'm not sure how important that really is.  I decided on standard heat sinks, with the idea that these might be older than the Seekers.

My baseline is obviously the Griffin, hence the name, which is the best my brain can come up with right now.  The "Mirage" would be based on the Shadow Hawk, swap the PPC for a large laser, add a medium laser in the arm, leaving one ton that could go towards a 12th heat sink.  On the other hand, with double heat sinks, you gain another ton back for either, which would let you use an ERLL on the Mirage variant, and give you the options to either throw on a smattering of jump jets like their progenitors, or increase the armor.

Speaking of armor, yes, it's notably thin at 7.5 tons, but that's still half a ton more than the Seeker, and also puts it mid-way between a Beetle and a Sounder for armor protection.  On a DHS version, I'm hesitant to put more than another ton of armor on, for that specific reason: the 60-ton Sounder still only has 9 tons of armor, and this is supposed to be a lighter unit.

Code: [Select]

Gryphon Wheeled AutoMech 50-ton concept

Mass: 50 tons
Chassis: Standard LAM
Power Plant: 250 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 54 kph
Maximum Speed: 86.4 kph
Jump Jets: Standard
     Jump Capacity: 90 meters
Armor: Standard
Armament:
     1 PPC
     1 LRM 5
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3145
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-X
Cost: N/A

Type: Gryphon Wheeled AutoMech
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Tonnage: 50
Battle Value: N/A

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                    5
LAM Conversion Equipment                            7.5
Engine                        250 Fusion           12.5
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 0
Wheeled Cruise: 6
Wheeled Flank: 9
Heat Sink                     11                      1
Gyro                                                  3
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  120                   7.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            16        14   
     Center Torso (rear)               7     
     R/L Torso               12        14   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  5     
     R/L Arm                 8         12   
     R/L Leg                 12        14   


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo              Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Heat Sink                CT        1        -       1.0   
LRM 5 Ammo (24)          RT        1        -       1.0   
LRM 5                    RT        1        2       2.0   
CASE                     RT        1        -       0.5   
PPC                      RA        3        10      7.0   

Note: No Turret in Wheeled Mode



Meanwhile, bumping up to 55 tons nets you an extra half-ton, which I put into armor - protection is better, but still below that of the Sounders.  Again, with double heat sinks, you can get an extra ton back to use as you wish, and on the Mirage variant switch to an ER Large Laser, ML, and LRM-5 rack.

Code: [Select]

Gryphon Wheeled AutoMech 55-ton concept

Mass: 55 tons
Chassis: Standard LAM
Power Plant: 275 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 54 kph
Maximum Speed: 86.4 kph
Jump Jets: Standard
     Jump Capacity: 90 meters
Armor: Standard
Armament:
     1 PPC
     1 LRM 5
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3145
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-X
Cost: N/A

Type: Gryphon Wheeled AutoMech
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Tonnage: 55
Battle Value: N/A

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                  5.5
LAM Conversion Equipment                           8.25
Engine                        275 Fusion           15.5
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 0
Wheeled Cruise: 6
Wheeled Flank: 9
Heat Sink                     11                      1
Gyro                                                  3
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  128                     8

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            18        16   
     Center Torso (rear)               7     
     R/L Torso               13        16   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  5     
     R/L Arm                 9         12   
     R/L Leg                 13        15   


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo              Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
LRM 5 Ammo (24)          RT        1        -       1.0   
LRM 5                    RT        1        2       2.0   
CASE                     RT        1        -       0.5   
PPC                      RA        3        10      7.0   

Note: No Turret in Wheeled Mode


So, the difficulty:  I'm not sure which fits in better with the published Syberian units, and whether to go with single heat sinks or doubles.  This is representative of an AutoMech type that didn't stand out as being common enough to get included in the report from Interstellar Expeditions and, for that matter, a medium wheeled AutoMech was literally cut from the publication.  I kind of feel like a 50-ton AutoMech with single heat sinks might work better, then, with the idea being that they eventually got completely eclipsed by the Seekers in that tonnage range, while the Beetle and the Sounder were flexible enough to take its other roles.  I'm also not at all set on these names for the AutoMech classes.  They're just working names that popped into my head.

Thoughts, ideas, comments, suggestions?

[Wrangler]

I always though Mirage would end up using an Assassin body, since it's F1 racer type or fast mover. I realize 40 toner not ideal, but it could be bumped up for tonnage purposes.

[Luciora]

From what it sounds like, you'll need at least 3 chassis to represent the middle Automechs. 

A 6/9/6+ scout type that carries ECM/Beagle (Mirage, Hound), 6/9 - 5/8/5 type with punch (Sunstreaker, Sideswipe. Blue Streak, Prowl, Wheeljack, Jazz, ) then the 4/6 armor and guns (Trailbreaker, Ironhide, Ratchet) possibly.

[HABeas2]

So, the difficulty:  I'm not sure which fits in better with the published Syberian units, and whether to go with single heat sinks or doubles.  This is representative of an AutoMech type that didn't stand out as being common enough to get included in the report from Interstellar Expeditions and, for that matter, a medium wheeled AutoMech was literally cut from the publication.  I kind of feel like a 50-ton AutoMech with single heat sinks might work better, then, with the idea being that they eventually got completely eclipsed by the Seekers in that tonnage range, while the Beetle and the Sounder were flexible enough to take its other roles.  I'm also not at all set on these names for the AutoMech classes.  They're just working names that popped into my head.

Thoughts, ideas, comments, suggestions?

I wouldn't let the limited number of chassis types in the Syberia write-up be too restrictive for your consideration; that was basically an arbitrary cross-section devised by the IE team who encountered them (doing ALL of the various types I could think of could have filled a full-sized TRO, which I don't think they'd let me get away with), with some simplification tossed in during the process (such as how the AeroMechs and Seekers were implied to be one class when they could potentially be two distinct classes, with the AeroMechs based more on the Aerialbots and the Seekers based on the F-15-type Seekers).

From what it sounds like, you'll need at least 3 chassis to represent the middle Automechs. 

A 6/9/6+ scout type that carries ECM/Beagle (Mirage, Hound), 6/9 - 5/8/5 type with punch (Sunstreaker, Sideswipe. Blue Streak, Prowl, Wheeljack, Jazz, ) then the 4/6 armor and guns (Trailbreaker, Ironhide, Ratchet) possibly.

Nearly certainly. Although I think I implied that the Syberian Ironhide and Ratchet could be variants of the Sounder class (mainly because I was seeing all of them transform into a similar "armored SUV" type of vehicle), there's no real reason they couldn't be different actual chassis types, as I just implied the AeroMechs and Seekers might be. The truly fun part, for me, would be picking out which extant BattleTech units best fit the look of the Transformers you want to have. Mirage and Hound may have similar equipment, but they'd almost HAVE to have different chassis types; I see the Griffin fitting our Bluestreak, Prowl, Smokescreen, and Jazz types mainly because the class Griffin's prominent chest shape and broad lower legs almost perfectly fits the way those G1 figures looked in robot mode. For Sunstreaker, Wheeljack, and Tracks, who have flatter chests and whose legs split from their front wheels (instead of the back, as Bluestreak, Prowl, etc. so), I'd imagine a different-but-almost similar body type...possibly the Shadowhawk or Wolverine. (Sideswipe is funny, because he transforms much like the "griffins," but ends up with a body that looks closer to other "flat-chest" types in robot mode.)

...Yeah, I've probably put way more thought into these guys than is entirely necessary.

- Herb

[Luciora]

Says the guy who inspired me to kitbash them as accurately as possible  8)

[glitterboy2098]

the one flaw i can see is the fact that by being wheeled and a comms unit, it is pretty much overlapping with the existing types. so i doubt you'd see more than a handful.

though the weight range is good one, and perhaps the type could be adapted to another role?. perhaps instead you could base a bimodal tracked type off Warpath from G1.? a 55 ton chassis would make for a good trooper unit, and it could mount a variety of heavier weapons meant to bolster those of the lighter Beetles.

[HABeas2]

Says the guy who inspired me to kitbash them as accurately as possible  8)

I'm challenging you now. ;)

- Herb

[Red Pins]

...I designed wheeled battlearmor, if you get desperate.

[Giovanni Blasini]

the one flaw i can see is the fact that by being wheeled and a comms unit, it is pretty much overlapping with the existing types. so i doubt you'd see more than a handful.

Groundwave himself is a comms type, and even in the chassis he's currently in, he represents an earlier take on the VeeMech/Sounder design: unlike the more common Sounder/VeeMech, he lacks double heat sinks, and has a standard large laser for main armament.  The Sounders and VeeMechs may well be more refined versions of the design lineage, whereas Groundwave's in an earlier version they just happened to have accessible in storage when he needed a new chassis.

though the weight range is good one, and perhaps the type could be adapted to another role?. perhaps instead you could base a bimodal tracked type off Warpath from G1.? a 55 ton chassis would make for a good trooper unit, and it could mount a variety of heavier weapons meant to bolster those of the lighter Beetles.

At the rate I'm going, I'm gonna end up creating a bunch more designs, and beat my head against the desk trying to shove them into MegaMekLab.

[Giovanni Blasini]

From what it sounds like, you'll need at least 3 chassis to represent the middle Automechs. 

A 6/9/6+ scout type that carries ECM/Beagle (Mirage, Hound), 6/9 - 5/8/5 type with punch (Sunstreaker, Sideswipe. Blue Streak, Prowl, Wheeljack, Jazz, ) then the 4/6 armor and guns (Trailbreaker, Ironhide, Ratchet) possibly.

There is so much madness available.

I wouldn't let the limited number of chassis types in the Syberia write-up be too restrictive for your consideration; that was basically an arbitrary cross-section devised by the IE team who encountered them (doing ALL of the various types I could think of could have filled a full-sized TRO, which I don't think they'd let me get away with), with some simplification tossed in during the process (such as how the AeroMechs and Seekers were implied to be one class when they could potentially be two distinct classes, with the AeroMechs based more on the Aerialbots and the Seekers based on the F-15-type Seekers).

The Seekers could be the ones that use improved jump jets for better flying speed.  AerialBots could be the same mass, use standard jump jets to go a bit slower, but gain back another 3.5 tons for payload and armor in comparison.  Which reminds me...

Nearly certainly. Although I think I implied that the Syberian Ironhide and Ratchet could be variants of the Sounder class (mainly because I was seeing all of them transform into a similar "armored SUV" type of vehicle), there's no real reason they couldn't be different actual chassis types, as I just implied the AeroMechs and Seekers might be.

You could run it either way, since there's a lot of variety you can accomplish in both chassis using the same engine, gyro, structure and armor.  I mean, the Seeker carries six tons of cargo and 3 tons of electronics, but is 3.5 tons shy of maximum armor.  I took a page from your description, and had Spanner drop the ECM/BAP of the Sounder, and made his "VeeMech" special equipment be a salvage arm: he still carries two 3-ton cargo bays.  A "FerroSkin" VeeMech could instead swap that for more armor, drop one of the cargo bays, and pack on, say, 3 medium lasers in place of one of the cargo bays, thus improving his firepower and protection.

The truly fun part, for me, would be picking out which extant BattleTech units best fit the look of the Transformers you want to have. Mirage and Hound may have similar equipment, but they'd almost HAVE to have different chassis types; I see the Griffin fitting our Bluestreak, Prowl, Smokescreen, and Jazz types mainly because the class Griffin's prominent chest shape and broad lower legs almost perfectly fits the way those G1 figures looked in robot mode. For Sunstreaker, Wheeljack, and Tracks, who have flatter chests and whose legs split from their front wheels (instead of the back, as Bluestreak, Prowl, etc. so), I'd imagine a different-but-almost similar body type...possibly the Shadowhawk or Wolverine. (Sideswipe is funny, because he transforms much like the "griffins," but ends up with a body that looks closer to other "flat-chest" types in robot mode.)

...Yeah, I've probably put way more thought into these guys than is entirely necessary.

- Herb

Maybe?  But they make for interesting ideas.  And I'm trying to decide on which is funnier: three Wheeled AutoMechs all at 55 tons but totally different loadouts like the "Classic" trio, or dropping their weights to be the same as their "IIC" counterparts at 40, 45 and 50 tons, or making them the same mass as their Primitive counterparts at 50, 55 and 60 tons.  Or, maybe more accurately, which AutoMech to make which mass.  I'm not as well-versed in Transformers as I'd like, enough to be able to do all of them, consisting mainly of half-forgotten G1 stuff and a smattering of the more recent Robots in Disguise and RescueBots cartoons.

Breaking down the categories, though:

40-ton 6/9/7/11 Wheeled AutoMech, 6.5 tons armor, 6 tons weaponry (enough for a BAP/ECM and 3 MLs)
40-ton 7/11/8/12 Wheeled AutoMech, 6 tons armor, 3 tons weaponry (RiD Sideswipe, armed with just a sword/light vibroblade)
45-ton 6/9/7/11 Wheeled AutoMech, 6.5 tons armor, 6.5 tons weaponry
50-ton 5/8/6/9 Wheeled AutoMech, 8 tons armor, 11 tons weaponry (StrongArm could fit here)
50-ton 6/9/7/11 Wheeled AutoMech, 7 tons armor, 5 tons weaponry (this could be a RiD Sideswipe that picks up a laser or two in addition to the sword)
55-ton 5/8/6/9 Wheeled AutoMech, 8.5 tons armor, 11 tons weaponry (Another StrongArm alternative, but maybe better for someone like Drift)
AeroMech, 50-ton Flying AutoMech, 8 tons armor, 8.5 tons weaponry

That'd certainly fill out the medium categories pretty well.  I'm holding off on VTOL AutoMechs because the construction rules drive me crazy, thanks to rotor weight.  For example, trying to build Windblade ends up extremely difficult

[HABeas2]

The Seekers could be the ones that use improved jump jets for better flying speed.  AerialBots could be the same mass, use standard jump jets to go a bit slower, but gain back another 3.5 tons for payload and armor in comparison.  Which reminds me...

That's certainly one way to handle the AeroMechs. Or at least for Silverbolt's analog, as he was bigger than the others and uncomfortable being a flyer (this would explain his slower speed, despite G1 Silverbolt being based on one of the fastest jets of the day). Then again, another option would be to build G1 Silverbolt as a WiGEMech, and have him spend most of his time skimming the ground, while being BIG.

You could run it either way, since there's a lot of variety you can accomplish in both chassis using the same engine, gyro, structure and armor.  I mean, the Seeker carries six tons of cargo and 3 tons of electronics, but is 3.5 tons shy of maximum armor.  I took a page from your description, and had Spanner drop the ECM/BAP of the Sounder, and made his "VeeMech" special equipment be a salvage arm: he still carries two 3-ton cargo bays.  A "FerroSkin" VeeMech could instead swap that for more armor, drop one of the cargo bays, and pack on, say, 3 medium lasers in place of one of the cargo bays, thus improving his firepower and protection.

Well, if you're using the original Nebula California rules, using any armor or structure types that take critical slots isn't allowed for convertible AutoMechs. They're fine for non-convertibles, though. XL engines are even more restrictive, as the AutoMechs can only use standard/large standard fusion, or standard/large standard fuel cell engines, regardless of transforming capability.

Maybe?  But they make for interesting ideas.  And I'm trying to decide on which is funnier: three Wheeled AutoMechs all at 55 tons but totally different loadouts like the "Classic" trio, or dropping their weights to be the same as their "IIC" counterparts at 40, 45 and 50 tons, or making them the same mass as their Primitive counterparts at 50, 55 and 60 tons.  Or, maybe more accurately, which AutoMech to make which mass.  I'm not as well-versed in Transformers as I'd like, enough to be able to do all of them, consisting mainly of half-forgotten G1 stuff and a smattering of the more recent Robots in Disguise and RescueBots cartoons.

Well, the Syberian AutoMechs are derived from Star League tech at its zenith (with some notable absences, such as the aforementioned XLs), so I would suggest maybe using the Primitive or classic forms of the Wolverweenie/Shad/Griffin trinity there. The Primitive chassis types does make for more variety, of course.

Breaking down the categories, though:

40-ton 6/9/7/11 Wheeled AutoMech, 6.5 tons armor, 6 tons weaponry (enough for a BAP/ECM and 3 MLs)
40-ton 7/11/8/12 Wheeled AutoMech, 6 tons armor, 3 tons weaponry (RiD Sideswipe, armed with just a sword/light vibroblade)
45-ton 6/9/7/11 Wheeled AutoMech, 6.5 tons armor, 6.5 tons weaponry
50-ton 5/8/6/9 Wheeled AutoMech, 8 tons armor, 11 tons weaponry (StrongArm could fit here)
50-ton 6/9/7/11 Wheeled AutoMech, 7 tons armor, 5 tons weaponry (this could be a RiD Sideswipe that picks up a laser or two in addition to the sword)
55-ton 5/8/6/9 Wheeled AutoMech, 8.5 tons armor, 11 tons weaponry (Another StrongArm alternative, but maybe better for someone like Drift)
AeroMech, 50-ton Flying AutoMech, 8 tons armor, 8.5 tons weaponry

That'd certainly fill out the medium categories pretty well.  I'm holding off on VTOL AutoMechs because the construction rules drive me crazy, thanks to rotor weight.  For example, trying to build Windblade ends up extremely difficult

I would build Wingblade as a Seeker variant, to be honest. She's a jet, despite the fan blades, just like G1 Thrust. In about every way that matters, she'd not need to change too far from a Seeker (she even transforms a lot like them).

But, of course, that's just me. ;)

- Herb

[RifleMech]

That's certainly one way to handle the AeroMechs. Or at least for Silverbolt's analog, as he was bigger than the others and uncomfortable being a flyer (this would explain his slower speed, despite G1 Silverbolt being based on one of the fastest jets of the day). Then again, another option would be to build G1 Silverbolt as a WiGEMech, and have him spend most of his time skimming the ground, while being BIG.

Are WiGEMechs built like AutoMechs with a requirement for Jump Jets for movement or are they built more like AeroMechs with flight limited by elevation instead of altitude? I ask because they do have a different crit requirements.

Well, if you're using the original Nebula California rules, using any armor or structure types that take critical slots isn't allowed for convertible AutoMechs. They're fine for non-convertibles, though. XL engines are even more restrictive, as the AutoMechs can only use standard/large standard fusion, or standard/large standard fuel cell engines, regardless of transforming capability.

Well, the Syberian AutoMechs are derived from Star League tech at its zenith (with some notable absences, such as the aforementioned XLs), so I would suggest maybe using the Primitive or classic forms of the Wolverweenie/Shad/Griffin trinity there. The Primitive chassis types does make for more variety, of course.

Aren't there also Industrial Chassis types for even more variety?

I would build Wingblade as a Seeker variant, to be honest. She's a jet, despite the fan blades, just like G1 Thrust. In about every way that matters, she'd not need to change too far from a Seeker (she even transforms a lot like them).

But, of course, that's just me. ;)

- Herb

Definitely a Seeker like Thrust. Rotors could be used as VTOL equipment that other Seekers lack or as part of a more primitive Seeker variant.

[HABeas2]

Are WiGEMechs built like AutoMechs with a requirement for Jump Jets for movement or are they built more like AeroMechs with flight limited by elevation instead of altitude? I ask because they do have a different crit requirements.

I'm not seeing a different crit requirement in my tables here (where the conversion equipment slots are spelled out, AeroMechs and WiGEMechs have the same required slots) And they do require jets, as per the following:

"WiGE AutoMechs: Wing-in-Ground Effect AutoMechs are a rare hybrid of vehicle and fighter AutoMech types. Though built like fighter AutoMechs, their alternate mode behaves in accordance with WiGE vehicle rules. Requiring thrusters to achieve their speed and lift, WiGE AutoMechs function as typical jump-capable units in ’Mech mode. But when converted to vehicle mode, each Jump MP translates to 1 WiGE MP (Cruising), with Flank MP calculated as normal. "

Aren't there also Industrial Chassis types for even more variety?

Yup.

Definitely a Seeker like Thrust. Rotors could be used as VTOL equipment that other Seekers lack or as part of a more primitive Seeker variant.

Yeah, but mostly this is a cosmetic thing in BT; aerospace fighters wound up gaining VTOL capabilities in Total Warfare, last I recalled, so our Thrust/Wingblade would simply be showing off more obvious VTOL equipment than most, since their flight modes use aerospace fighter rules.

- Herb

[Wrangler]

I'm curious is superheavies could be used.  Such as Fortress Maximus style mech/bots.

[HABeas2]

I'm curious is superheavies could be used.  Such as Fortress Maximus style mech/bots.

That would be an "Emplacement AutoMech," and they are allowed up to 200 tons in the NebCal rules.

- Herb

[RifleMech]

I'm not seeing a different crit requirement in my tables here (where the conversion equipment slots are spelled out, AeroMechs and WiGEMechs have the same required slots) And they do require jets, as per the following:

"WiGE AutoMechs: Wing-in-Ground Effect AutoMechs are a rare hybrid of vehicle and fighter AutoMech types. Though built like fighter AutoMechs, their alternate mode behaves in accordance with WiGE vehicle rules. Requiring thrusters to achieve their speed and lift, WiGE AutoMechs function as typical jump-capable units in ’Mech mode. But when converted to vehicle mode, each Jump MP translates to 1 WiGE MP (Cruising), with Flank MP calculated as normal. "

I didn't remember a WiGEAutoMech, so I wasn't sure if it required 3 Avionics crits and 3 Landing Gear crits for FighterMechs or 4 Conversion crits for AutoMechs. Does the WiGEMech have the same weight limitations as the FighterMech (55 tons) or can it weigh more?

Yup.

Yeah, but mostly this is a cosmetic thing in BT; aerospace fighters wound up gaining VTOL capabilities in Total Warfare, last I recalled, so our Thrust/Wingblade would simply be showing off more obvious VTOL equipment than most, since their flight modes use aerospace fighter rules.

- Herb

Cool

VTOL being a cosmetic thing for Aerospace FighterMechs is cool too. I can fluff it as being an older type. Would a FighterMech made with an Industrial Chassis be an aerospace fighter or a conventional fighter? If the latter, would VTOL equipment still be included?

[idea weenie]

I'm curious is superheavies could be used.  Such as Fortress Maximus style mech/bots.

Superheavies might be better suited for Sky Lynx


Now I wonder how you would design the combiners, such as Devastator?  Would this be a similar tonnage cost as the LAM conversion equipment where you pay 15% for the VeeMech capability, but you would then pay another 15% for the ability to combine?  Much less dangerous individually, but becoming the larger Mech would be a nasty surprise.

Triple changers might have a higher percentage of mass needed for the LAM conversion equipment, since they need more flexibility (i.e. Blitzwing).

Perhaps the combiner% should vary based on the number of units needed to work together, as some units are merely Multi-component transformers where each is part of the whole rather than full combiners (where each individual can be separate).


For the thrill of it, try to imagines rules for a Mobile Structure AutoBoP or Democon:
Fortress Maximus
Metroplex (though this might feature the Building rules instead of Mobile Structures)
Omega Supreme
Scorponok
Trypticon


Still, with the additional communications systems, perhaps Groundwave can become a Cityspeaker.  Who knows, if Groundwave ever transforms, he could become a Headmaster.

[RifleMech]

Superheavies might be better suited for Sky Lynx

I think it'd be cool to build a QuadLAM. A superheavy QuadLAM would be even cooler. Building Sky Lynx as two separate Mechs that combine would be more of a problem. (see below)

Now I wonder how you would design the combiners, such as Devastator?  Would this be a similar tonnage cost as the LAM conversion equipment where you pay 15% for the VeeMech capability, but you would then pay another 15% for the ability to combine?  Much less dangerous individually, but becoming the larger Mech would be a nasty surprise.

I've wondered about that. I couldn't figure out how to get them to combine outside a massive mech bay. I ended up making them as non converting superheavy mechs that look like they were made up of multiple smaller units.

Triple changers might have a higher percentage of mass needed for the LAM conversion equipment, since they need more flexibility (i.e. Blitzwing).

I don't know about that. Trimodal LAM's conversion equipment is lighter. I do think Triple, and more, changers would have more crit space taken for conversion equipment and motive systems as well as avionics and landing gear.

Perhaps the combiner% should vary based on the number of units needed to work together, as some units are merely Multi-component transformers where each is part of the whole rather than full combiners (where each individual can be separate).

Hard to say. I'm still not sure how they'd actually combine.   

For the thrill of it, try to imagines rules for a Mobile Structure AutoBoP or Democon:
Fortress Maximus
Metroplex (though this might feature the Building rules instead of Mobile Structures)
Omega Supreme
Scorponok
Trypticon


Still, with the additional communications systems, perhaps Groundwave can become a Cityspeaker.  Who knows, if Groundwave ever transforms, he could become a Headmaster.

Imagine rules to make the SDF-1. >:D

[HABeas2]

In order to stay relatively close to the BattleTech we know and love, I put some limits on how big the various transforming types could get.

The weight tables went like this:

From the (Transforming) AutoMech Construction Basics Table--

Fighter/WiGE AutoMechs - Max Tons: 55 (Fighter), 80 (WiGE) - Other Restrictions: Only biped ’Mechs
Vehicle AutoMechs - Max Tons: 100 (Tracked), 85 (Wheeled), 55 (Hover) - Other Restrictions: Biped and Quad ’Mechs only
VTOL AutoMechs - Max Tons: 40   - Other Restrictions: Only biped ’Mechs
Bestial AutoMechs - Max Tons: 100 - Other Restrictions: Not available to tripod ’Mechs
Emplacement AutoMechs - Max Tons: 200 - Other Restrictions: Available to all ’Mech forms

Beyond those, an AutoMech could be made into any unit type that was non-transforming in nature, so you could do Mobile Structures and DropShips as AutoMechs, but they'd never have a robot mode. Likewise, I didn't write up rules for combiner types, planet-sized transformers, and other oddities of the TF universe, because I wanted the results to stay closer to BT than TF in the end.

....

And thanks to this conversation, I have spent a portion of today going over the cartoon cast of the first season of Transformers, identifying which Autobots would convert to which AutoMech Chassis types, what new classes I would need to fill them out, and what minis would be needed to match them closest as far as aesthetics.

Hope you're all happy!  :D

- Herb

[Giovanni Blasini]

Thread title updated.  I did come up with 50/55/60 ton wheeled SHD/WVR/GRF equivalents, as well as a 55-ton wheeled AutoMech with 9 tons of armor that shuffled weapons around to represent all three, but I’m on my phone, and they aren’t.

Leaning towards making Groundwave’s old body a modified 55-ton GRF type, but that’ll be more for my next story post.

But, yeah, feel free everyone, especially Herb, to post your ideas for AutoMechs and their Transformer equivalents here.

[Luciora]

I most certainly did not place a minis order for a Shadow Hawk and Wolverine this weekend for....experiments.   :-X

[HABeas2]

Okay, so, using the info from the original Nebula California text... Going through the characters featured in Season 1 of the original G1 Transformers cartoon... Cross-referencing with specs given and/or implied.... And combing through Iron Wind Metals' BattleTech minis (both standard and online exclusives), I've come up with this:

Code: [Select]

[b]Syberian Faction Chassis Class/Type BattleMech Vehicle[/b]
Primus Optimal AutoBoP Leader (Wheeled/100) Grand Titan HQ Vehicle
Beetle Bee AutoBoP Beetle (Wheeled/35) Commando Rotunda
Wheeler Jack AutoBoP Jack (Wheeled/50?) Shadow Hawk? Rotunda
Jazzy (Streaker) AutoBoP Streaker (Wheeled/55?) Griffin Rotunda
Blue Streaker AutoBoP Streaker (Wheeled/55?) Griffin Rotunda
(Vee-)Brawny AutoBoP VeeMech (Wheeled/60) Wolverine Striker
Beetle Jumper AutoBoP Beetle (Wheeled/35) Commando Rotunda
Beetle Gear AutoBoP Beetle (Wheeled/35) Commando Light SRM
(Vee-)Hounder AutoBoP VeeMech (Wheeled/60) Wolverine Ibex Armored
Huffa Minor AutoBoP Leader (Wheeled/100) Grand Titan Thor SPHA
Ferro-Vee AutoBoP VeeMech (Wheeled/60) Wolverine MASH Vehicle
Sensor Ghost AutoBoP Ghost (Wheeled/40?) Assassin? Zephyros
Prowler (Streaker) AutoBoP Streaker (Wheeled/55?) Griffin Rotunda
(Vee-)Wrenchit AutoBoP VeeMech (Wheeled/60) Wolverine MASH Vehicle
Swiper Jack AutoBoP Jack (Wheeled/50?) Shadow Hawk? Rotunda
Sunny Streak(er) AutoBoP Streaker (Wheeled/55?) Griffin Rotunda
(Vee-)Trailer AutoBoP VeeMech (Wheeled/60) Wolverine Striker
Beetle Charger AutoBoP Beetle (Wheeled/35) Commando Light SRM
Hauler Crane AutoBoP Crane (Wheeled/75?) Grasshopper JI-100
Aero Fire AutoBoP* Seeker II (Aero/55?) Crusader Rusalka
Grimdark DynaBoG Grimdark (Bestial/100) Shiro White Flame
Grim-Slagger DynaBoG Grimdark (Bestial/100) Shiro Trebaruna
Grim-Slugger DynaBoG Grimdark (Bestial/100) Shiro Balius
Grim-Snarler DynaBoG Grimdark (Bestial/100) Shiro Trebaruna
Swooper DynaBoG Swooper (Aero/50?) Stinger LAM (Mk I) Stinger LAM (Mk I)

MechaTankus DemoCon Tankus (Tracked/100) Shootist Ajax
Shocker Tankus DemoCon Tankus (Tracked/100) Highlander Rommel
Star Seeker DemoCon Seeker (Aero/50) Phoenix Hawk MechBuster
Wave Sounder DemoCon Sounder (Wheeled/60) Prim. Thunderbolt Packrat LRPV
-Red Frenzy Drone DemoCon Grunt Drone (BA/2) Golem BA --
-Laserwing Drone DemoCon Flight Drone (Aero/1.5?) Aeshna (Micro) --
-Ravager Drone DemoCon Quad Drone (BA/1) Rottweiler BA --
-Blue Rumbler Drone DemoCon Grunt Drone (BA/2) Golem BA --
Sky Seeker DemoCon Seeker (Aero/50) Phoenix Hawk MechBuster
Thunder Seeker DemoCon Seeker (Aero/50) Phoenix Hawk MechBuster
Acid Seeker DemoCon Seeker (Aero/50) Phoenix Hawk MechBuster
Ion Seeker DemoCon Seeker (Aero/50) Phoenix Hawk MechBuster
Nova Seeker DemoCon Seeker (Aero/50) Phoenix Hawk MechBuster
Bit Seeker DemoCon Seeker (Aero/50) Phoenix Hawk MechBuster
Heat Seeker DemoCon Seeker (Aero/50) Phoenix Hawk MechBuster
Cell Seeker DemoCon Seeker (Aero/50) Phoenix Hawk MechBuster
Sun Seeker DemoCon Seeker (Aero/50) Phoenix Hawk MechBuster
Deflector (Triad) DemoCon Triad (Emplacement/20) Hankyu Oro Turret
Scrapper-D DemoCon Dozer (Wheeled/40?) Apollo Turhan
Crusher-D DemoCon Grinder (Tracked/45?) Beowulf Mithras
Hooker-D DemoCon Lifter (Wheeled/75?) Grasshopper JI-100
Hauler-D DemoCon Dozer (Wheeled/40?) Apollo Indra
Mixer-D DemoCon Dozer (Wheeled/40?) Apollo Coolant Truck
Salvager-D DemoCon Grinder (Tracked/45?) Beowulf Zorya
Scrap Sector InterSectCon Sector (Bestial/60?) Quickdraw Stalking Spider
Bomb Sector InterSectCon Sector (Bestial/60?) Quickdraw Fire Scorpion
Kick Hopper InterSectCon Hopper (Bestial/40?) Spider Tarantula

*Reprogrammed from DemoCon

Some commentary:
* I came to realize at one point that not all 'Mech or vehicle modes would need to visually match, even though the rules recommended it. In some cases, after all, certain Transformers who were fundamentally similar in types (Megatron and Shockwave, for example) demanded the same features, but ended up with different looks in the end. It thus could be argued that they were actually variants of each other, if only in a cosmetic sense.

* Speaking of Megs and Shockwave, here they are tank Transformers. Even though their original G1 bodies both converted into guns, both have since received tank mode versions that aimed at giving their G1 bodies some agency of their own in alt modes. Same goes for how Soundwave got a wheeled vehicle mode despite originally being a tape deck.

* I am introducing battle armor drones here to cover the "tapes." They do not transform. I was not about to devise a set of transformation rules for BA-sized drones when they already have too many space/mass challenges to deal with. Just imagine they make the transformation sound as they deploy from their host and you still get most of the G1 feel anyway.

* As indicated by the question marks, I'm not as positive on some mini and tonnage recommendations, but I decided to fill in something just the same.

* In a few cases, I am basically retconning what was said in the CalNeb fluff when it comes to names and model types, which can be chalked up to IE not being as accurate as they could have been when simplifying their findings into a few blurbs. Examples include how some AutoMechs integrate their chassis types into their names, and others don't.

* Kitbashing to make the minis more G1-accurate is practically a must here, for obvious reasons. I went with forms that I felt were thematically similar in style and function, but we are still mapping one franchise over another in ways they were never meant to mix.

Conclusions:
* Leaving variants aside for the moment, we need the following all-new base chassis types:
 
>> Jack - A medium-weight Wheeled AutoMech likely derived from the Shadow Hawk ('Mech)/Rotunda (Vee). Perhaps 50 tons in mass. Covers the AutoMech versions of "Wheeljack" and "Sideswipe."

>> Streaker - A medium-weight Wheeled AutoMech likely derived from the Griffin ('Mech)/Rotunda (Vee). Perhaps 55 tons in mass. Covers the AutoMech versions of "Jazz," "Bluestreak," "Prowl," and "Sunstreaker."

>> VeeMech - Assumed to be a Wheeled AutoMech equal to the Ender class used by the DemoCons, so assumed to have a 60-ton mass, but likely derived from a different chassis--in this case, the Wolverine ('Mech)/Striker or MASH (Vee). Striker variants cover AutoMechs versions of "Brawn," and "Trailbreaker," while MASH variants cover AutoMech versions of "Ironhide," and "Ratchet." Still another vehicle form variant--this one derived from the armored Ibex--covers AutoMech version of "Hound."

>> Ghost - A unique Wheeled AutoMech likely derived from the Assassin ('Mech)/Zephyros or Swift Wind (Vee). Perhaps 40 tons in mass. Covers the AutoMech answer to "Mirage." (Assassin 'Mech form based on opinions voiced in this thread.)

>> Lifter - A rare Wheeled AutoMech likely derived from the Grasshopper ('Mech)/JI-100 Recovery Vehicle (Vee). Perhaps 75 tons in mass. Covers the AutoMech answer to "Hauler" (an Autobot seen only in the pilot series, who never transformed, but possibly morphed later on into "Grapple" of later seasons), and "Hook" (one of the Constructicons).

>> Seeker II - A unique Aerofighter AutoMech likely derived from the Crusader ('Mech)/Rusalka (Fighter). A 55-ton Seeker variant. Covers the AutoMech version of "Jetfire," who is basically a bigger Seeker (and whose original toy--an corresponding mini--were the up-armored form of the same Veritech the original P-Hawk was based on).

>> Swooper - A unique Aerofighter AutoMech derived from the Mark I form of the Stinger LAM ('Mech and Fighter forms). Likely 50 tons, as it is basically a DynaBoG ("Dinobot") version of the Seeker, and covers "Swoop."

>> Grunt Drone - humanoid battle armor-sized robotic drone, visually closest to the Golem in shape and size. Covers the "Rumble" and "Frenzy" cassette deployers. Likely 2 tons as well.

>> Flight Drone - Micro-Fighter robotic drone, visually closest to the Aeshna fighter (use the Micro-scale mini, of course). Covers "Laserbeak" cassette deployer. Likely 1.5-2 tons. No more than 3. Bust out the ultra-light Support Vehicle rules to make that one!

>> Quad Drone - quad battle armor-sized robotic drone, visually closest to the Rottweiler in shape and size. Covers "Ravage," and likely 1 ton.

>> Triad - Rare emplacement-type AutoMech, typically deployed in groups of 3, visually closest to the turret of an Oro heavy tank. Probably 20 tons in mass, and represents the three Decepticons who comprised "Reflector" (called "Refractor" these days, as I understand it).

>> Dozer - A Wheeled AutoMech type used as part of a special team of DemoCons collectively known as Contructors, visually most similar to the Apollo ('Mech), but with vehicle forms that vary individually by function (Turhan, Indra, and Coolant Truck in this case). Likely 40 tons in mass apiece, they respectively cover the Constructicons "Scrapper," "Long Haul," and "Mixmaster."

>> Grinder - A tracked AutoMech type that, with the aforementioned Dozers and a Lifter named "Hooker-D," rounds out the DemoCon Constructors. Visually similar to the Beowulf (a beefed-up Mongoose 'Mech, if you will), with vehicle forms akin to the Mithras and the Zorya light tanks. Likely 45 tons. Covers the Constructicons "Bonecrusher," and "Scavenger," respectively.

>> Sector - The most common chassis type among the InterSect Confederacy (allies of the DemoCons), these are Bestial AutoMechs derived from the Quickdraw ('Mech), with quad modes resembling the Stalking Spider and/or the Fire Scorpon. Coming in around 60 tons, they cover the Insecticons "Sharpnel" and "Bombshell"...or whatever they're being called these days.

>> Hopper - The next most common chassis among the ISC is another Bestial AutoMech derived from the Spider ('Mech), which fittingly resembles the Tarantula 'Mech in Quad mode. This 40-ish tonner covers the Insecticon "Kickback."

* Worth noting, perhaps, is that the DynaBoG and InterSect Confederacy are lower-tech than their corresponding allies, and thus should probably be using IndustrialMech components, like Grimdark does.

I'm getting the shakes now, so I'll call it a day here and leave this rambling post for you guys to discuss.

- Herb

[glitterboy2098]

Given iirc that the tapes didn't have alternate modes beyond robo-animal and tape-storage mode*, running them as BA sized Drones works. Can always fluff them as having a storage mode where the limbs fold up in a way to turn them into a box like shape for easier stowage.


*The only major exception I am aware of is ravage in beast wars. Where apparently the little robokitty became a feline predacon with a humanoid mode after the great upgrade. But that was the far future of the setting. Sorta. (Beast wars involved time travel so it gets complicated)

[HABeas2]

*The only major exception I am aware of is ravage in beast wars. Where apparently the little robokitty became a feline predacon with a humanoid mode after the great upgrade. But that was the far future of the setting. Sorta. (Beast wars involved time travel so it gets complicated)

And he STILL had a tape cassette mode, which was funny.

- Herb

[glitterboy2098]

And he STILL had a tape cassette mode, which was funny.

- Herb

and a thick russian accent..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHVE5j4I0L8

[RifleMech]

Code: [Select]

[quote author=HABeas2 link=topic=76748.msg1811795#msg1811795 date=1645869821]
In order to stay relatively close to the BattleTech we know and love, I put some limits on how big the various transforming types could get.[/quote]

I can understand that. At some point the conversion process goes from seconds to minuets and that moves things beyond even aerospace time scale. But they'd still be fun.

[quote]
The weight tables went like this:

From the (Transforming) AutoMech Construction Basics Table--

Fighter/WiGE AutoMechs - Max Tons: 55 (Fighter), 80 (WiGE) - Other Restrictions: Only biped ’Mechs
Vehicle AutoMechs - Max Tons: 100 (Tracked), 85 (Wheeled), 55 (Hover) - Other Restrictions: Biped and Quad ’Mechs only
VTOL AutoMechs - Max Tons: 40 - Other Restrictions: Only biped ’Mechs
Bestial AutoMechs - Max Tons: 100 - Other Restrictions: Not available to tripod ’Mechs
Emplacement AutoMechs - Max Tons: 200 - Other Restrictions: Available to all ’Mech forms

Beyond those, an AutoMech could be made into any unit type that was non-transforming in nature, so you could do Mobile Structures and DropShips as AutoMechs, but they'd never have a robot mode. Likewise, I didn't write up rules for combiner types, planet-sized transformers, and other oddities of the TF universe, because I wanted the results to stay closer to BT than TF in the end.[/quote]

Very cool. I can see wanting to be closer to BT than TF. So I can understand no combiners and planet-size transformers. I don't know about trimodal and triple changers being excluded though. I'm also not sure why quads and tripods are excluded from so many categories.
We have Sky Lynx for a Quad AeroMech. I've also seen a custom tripod aerialbot that converted into a Focke-Wulf Triebflügel. I wish I could find the picture.  :-[ It was cool though. All the aerialbots were german fighters.



[quote]....

And thanks to this conversation, I have spent a portion of today going over the cartoon cast of the first season of Transformers, identifying which Autobots would convert to which AutoMech Chassis types, what new classes I would need to fill them out, and what minis would be needed to match them closest as far as aesthetics.

Hope you're all happy!  :D

- Herb
[/quote]

I am.  :)


[quote author=HABeas2 link=topic=76748.msg1811868#msg1811868 date=1645898279]
Okay, so, using the info from the original Nebula California text... Going through the characters featured in Season 1 of the original G1 Transformers cartoon... Cross-referencing with specs given and/or implied.... And combing through Iron Wind Metals' BattleTech minis (both standard and online exclusives), I've come up with this:
(snip)
[/quote]

Very cool! Thanks!  :thumbsup: If IronWind Metals ever made minis of more civilian style vehicles would your selections change any? Like the Saturnus for Mirage
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Saturnus_V and the Simca for Rachet and Ironhide  https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Simca ?



[quote]*Reprogrammed from DemoCon

Some commentary:
* I came to realize at one point that not all 'Mech or vehicle modes would need to visually match, even though the rules recommended it. In some cases, after all, certain Transformers who were fundamentally similar in types (Megatron and Shockwave, for example) demanded the same features, but ended up with different looks in the end. It thus could be argued that they were actually variants of each other, if only in a cosmetic sense. [/quote]

Makes sense. A lot of the Seekers are just variants of each other.

* Speaking of Megs and Shockwave, here they are tank Transformers. Even though their original G1 bodies both converted into guns, both have since received tank mode versions that aimed at giving their G1 bodies some agency of their own in alt modes. Same goes for how Soundwave got a wheeled vehicle mode despite originally being a tape deck.

Sounds cool. I just figured Soundwave would be an Enplacement mech but a wheeled vehicle is cool.

* I am introducing battle armor drones here to cover the "tapes." They do not transform. I was not about to devise a set of transformation rules for BA-sized drones when they already have too many space/mass challenges to deal with. Just imagine they make the transformation sound as they deploy from their host and you still get most of the G1 feel anyway.

Their not having an internal structure is a bit of a problem.  :( But I love being able to use the Cassettes.

* As indicated by the question marks, I'm not as positive on some mini and tonnage recommendations, but I decided to fill in something just the same.

Primus Optimal overweight for a wheeled automech?

>> Swooper - A unique Aerofighter AutoMech derived from the Mark I form of the Stinger LAM ('Mech and Fighter forms). Likely 50 tons, as it is basically a DynaBoG ("Dinobot") version of the Seeker, and covers "Swoop."

Would Swooper be better as an AirMech and not a true FighterMech?

>> Grunt Drone - humanoid battle armor-sized robotic drone, visually closest to the Golem in shape and size. Covers the "Rumble" and "Frenzy" cassette deployers. Likely 2 tons as well.

>> Flight Drone - Micro-Fighter robotic drone, visually closest to the Aeshna fighter (use the Micro-scale mini, of course). Covers "Laserbeak" cassette deployer. Likely 1.5-2 tons. No more than 3. Bust out the ultra-light Support Vehicle rules to make that one!

>> Quad Drone - quad battle armor-sized robotic drone, visually closest to the Rottweiler in shape and size. Covers "Ravage," and likely 1 ton.

Would Quad Drones like Slugfest, Zaur, and Ramhorn  be heavier drone types than Ravage?

https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Zaur_(G1)
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Ramhorn_(G1)(G1)
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Slugfest_(G1)
Would biped Drones like Overkill and Dial be heavier than Rumble and Frenzy Drones?https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Overkill_(G1)
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Dile

* Worth noting, perhaps, is that the DynaBoG and InterSect Confederacy are lower-tech than their corresponding allies, and thus should probably be using IndustrialMech components, like Grimdark does.

And/Or PrimitiveMech components?

I'm getting the shakes now, so I'll call it a day here and leave this rambling post for you guys to discuss.

- Herb

Have a good rest.  :beer: :thumbsup:

edit: I think I've got the links fixed.

[DOC_Agren]

Tagging so I don't loose this one

[Giovanni Blasini]

Conclusions:
* Leaving variants aside for the moment, we need the following all-new base chassis types:
 
>> Jack - A medium-weight Wheeled AutoMech likely derived from the Shadow Hawk ('Mech)/Rotunda (Vee). Perhaps 50 tons in mass. Covers the AutoMech versions of "Wheeljack" and "Sideswipe."

>> Streaker - A medium-weight Wheeled AutoMech likely derived from the Griffin ('Mech)/Rotunda (Vee). Perhaps 55 tons in mass. Covers the AutoMech versions of "Jazz," "Bluestreak," "Prowl," and "Sunstreaker."

>> VeeMech - Assumed to be a Wheeled AutoMech equal to the Ender class used by the DemoCons, so assumed to have a 60-ton mass, but likely derived from a different chassis--in this case, the Wolverine ('Mech)/Striker or MASH (Vee). Striker variants cover AutoMechs versions of "Brawn," and "Trailbreaker," while MASH variants cover AutoMech versions of "Ironhide," and "Ratchet." Still another vehicle form variant--this one derived from the armored Ibex--covers AutoMech version of "Hound."

OK, I've got some renaming and a little shifting around to do on versions.  Y'now, you could also split the slower Sounder/VeeMech ones based on the Thunderbolt from faster 60-tonners based on the Wolverine, too.

>> Ghost - A unique Wheeled AutoMech likely derived from the Assassin ('Mech)/Zephyros or Swift Wind (Vee). Perhaps 40 tons in mass. Covers the AutoMech answer to "Mirage." (Assassin 'Mech form based on opinions voiced in this thread.)

>> Lifter - A rare Wheeled AutoMech likely derived from the Grasshopper ('Mech)/JI-100 Recovery Vehicle (Vee). Perhaps 75 tons in mass. Covers the AutoMech answer to "Hauler" (an Autobot seen only in the pilot series, who never transformed, but possibly morphed later on into "Grapple" of later seasons), and "Hook" (one of the Constructicons).

>> Seeker II - A unique Aerofighter AutoMech likely derived from the Crusader ('Mech)/Rusalka (Fighter). A 55-ton Seeker variant. Covers the AutoMech version of "Jetfire," who is basically a bigger Seeker (and whose original toy--an corresponding mini--were the up-armored form of the same Veritech the original P-Hawk was based on).

>> Swooper - A unique Aerofighter AutoMech derived from the Mark I form of the Stinger LAM ('Mech and Fighter forms). Likely 50 tons, as it is basically a DynaBoG ("Dinobot") version of the Seeker, and covers "Swoop."

>> Grunt Drone - humanoid battle armor-sized robotic drone, visually closest to the Golem in shape and size. Covers the "Rumble" and "Frenzy" cassette deployers. Likely 2 tons as well.

So, these are a bit more burly than the Ravage drones??

>> Flight Drone - Micro-Fighter robotic drone, visually closest to the Aeshna fighter (use the Micro-scale mini, of course). Covers "Laserbeak" cassette deployer. Likely 1.5-2 tons. No more than 3. Bust out the ultra-light Support Vehicle rules to make that one!

Gotcha covered:  Syberian Spybird recon drone.  At 3 tons on the dot, fits perfectly into one of the VeeMech/Sounder cargo holds.

>> Quad Drone - quad battle armor-sized robotic drone, visually closest to the Rottweiler in shape and size. Covers "Ravage," and likely 1 ton.

>> Triad - Rare emplacement-type AutoMech, typically deployed in groups of 3, visually closest to the turret of an Oro heavy tank. Probably 20 tons in mass, and represents the three Decepticons who comprised "Reflector" (called "Refractor" these days, as I understand it).

>> Dozer - A Wheeled AutoMech type used as part of a special team of DemoCons collectively known as Contructors, visually most similar to the Apollo ('Mech), but with vehicle forms that vary individually by function (Turhan, Indra, and Coolant Truck in this case). Likely 40 tons in mass apiece, they respectively cover the Constructicons "Scrapper," "Long Haul," and "Mixmaster."

>> Grinder - A tracked AutoMech type that, with the aforementioned Dozers and a Lifter named "Hooker-D," rounds out the DemoCon Constructors. Visually similar to the Beowulf (a beefed-up Mongoose 'Mech, if you will), with vehicle forms akin to the Mithras and the Zorya light tanks. Likely 45 tons. Covers the Constructicons "Bonecrusher," and "Scavenger," respectively.

>> Sector - The most common chassis type among the InterSect Confederacy (allies of the DemoCons), these are Bestial AutoMechs derived from the Quickdraw ('Mech), with quad modes resembling the Stalking Spider and/or the Fire Scorpon. Coming in around 60 tons, they cover the Insecticons "Sharpnel" and "Bombshell"...or whatever they're being called these days.

>> Hopper - The next most common chassis among the ISC is another Bestial AutoMech derived from the Spider ('Mech), which fittingly resembles the Tarantula 'Mech in Quad mode. This 40-ish tonner covers the Insecticon "Kickback."

* Worth noting, perhaps, is that the DynaBoG and InterSect Confederacy are lower-tech than their corresponding allies, and thus should probably be using IndustrialMech components, like Grimdark does.

I'm getting the shakes now, so I'll call it a day here and leave this rambling post for you guys to discuss.

- Herb

Shakes?  Well, that's worrisome.

And/Or PrimitiveMech components?

Welcome to the California Nebula says "No Primitive Components", and implies lesser factions use Industrial components instead, but YMMV. :)

Have a good rest.  :beer: :thumbsup:

This.  Getting the shakes isn't good, Herb.

[idea weenie]

Gotcha covered:  Syberian Spybird recon drone.  At 3 tons on the dot, fits perfectly into one of the VeeMech/Sounder cargo holds.

I'm wondering what that bird would look like with a battery powered engine, with a few extra kg as 'cargo' for basic solar power.  The Spybird normally charges its batteries from whichever cargo hold it is in, but if needed it can hang out in the sunlight and slowly charge up its onboard batteries.

I also wonder how that Spybird had 7 pts of armor at .315 tons, but only had 6 pts allocated (2, 1/1, 1)

Was that Spybird made with SSW or MML?

[Giovanni Blasini]

MegaMekLab.