Air-Slip Mechs

[LAMFAN]

This is Labor of love based off of my obsession with LAMs. Thus, I give to you all the Lore, Background, and Rules for Air-Slip Mechs!

This was basically an entire concept developed to justify a periphery world using mechs that look like the Air Mech mode and utilizing fixed-wing and handheld rules early, though without making any significant waves to canon so it remains its own little niche.

Note: I'm putting this here in Fan Designs and Rules because I want to keep the lore and the rules for their usage together; it's much easier than separating and linking them.



Dire Hawk Air-Slip Mech, based on the Chassis of the Phoenix Hawk LAM.

**LORE AND BACKGROUND**

During the early Succession Wars, On Logan Prime in the Lothian League, the green-spotted tundra of a planet was looking for a way to defend against raiders but was having a hard time affording battlemechs beyond the cheaper ones. They stumbled upon gold, however, when they uncovered an SLDF graveyard for decomissioned and damaged LAM Battlemechs. The LAM's themselves were mostly repairable by available engineers, with the noted exception of their conversion equipment; most every LAM's conversion equipment was shot or destroyed, and the complicated nature of it made it impossible to repair or replicate without a dedicated factory. Desperate for some kind of edge to defend their home planet, the most effective option seemed to be removing components too difficult to maintiain or fix (specifically, the conversion equipment), and leave the mech in its Aeromech mode to make use of its wing-like shape.

This led to the development of the Air-Slip Mechs, acting as Battlemechs with fixed-wing properties. Affectionately called "Longshots", after the head engineer pointed out how unlikely the idea was going to work. They're also called "Cropdusters" by those on Blantleff, for their agricultural uses once they began to be ported over there. Because of their design, they're capable of producing enough thrust to act as makeshift WiGE vehicles, similar to the original Aeromech mode, with some notable exceptions and limitations.

This was the start of Logan Prime's niche engineering business; Longshot Manufacturing, specializing in Air-Slip Mechs (Longshots) and handheld weaponry specifically designed for them.

This also led to the rise of a militia based around light, increadibly mobile mechs that can deliver themselves to the battlefield at increadible speeds, all while using swarm and intercept tactics. This also led to the rise of two local developments. To fully make use of the Air-Slip mech's mobility, specially engineered handheld weapons were crafted to support them with extra firepower (or in the case of the lighter variants, ANY firepower). This first development would eventually make them uniquely skilled at developing custom handheld mech Weaponry in later years.

The second development was the locally popular sport on Logan Prime; Longshot Races! Speeding across the forests, Valleys, and frozen tundra plains, expert pilots would race eachother and perform death defying maneuvers to the enjoyment of locals and visitors alike. Most racers happen to be part of the militia, and use the races as a means to sharpen their skills and settle rivalries. Though Lothians in general are wary of those from the Inner Sphere, money is money. So when news spread of these high intensity races, nearby planets wanted to visit and watch these silly looking high-speed mechs fly across the frozen tundra. This is how Hamric Industries first heard of these makeshift Battlemechs, and noticed the potential in them and Logan Prime's specialty crafted handheld weaponry for them too....


AIR-SLIP MECHS: RULES AND CONSTRUCTION
Rules for Air-Slip Mech operation function both on a crunch and meta level:
- The mech should be a retrofit of an existing (decomissioned) LAM or originally built with a wing shaped body (staying within the 55 ton limit).
- Preferably chicken legs for the asthetic and design, unless a normally-jointed leg design works.

Tabletop Rules:
Depending on what you agree to with your opponent, there are two ways Air-Slip mechs can work: Air-Slip-Mode-Capable OUT of combat, or IN combat (Out of Combat Flight or Mid-Combat Flight; OoCF and MCF, respectively):

-OoCF: The mech operates just like a normal mech with Partial Wing rules, as per its construction, and handheld weaponry. The ability to fly is mostly just fluff for the design and how it gets to the battlefield so quickly without help. All Mech's listed below are currently useable with this as it's within canon rules. The only exception is that handheld weaponry, chemical lasers, rocket/missile launchers, and partial wing rules are useable before their widespread introduction due to the background presented above.

-MCF: [THIS SECTION IS CURRENTLY IN BETA STAGES AND UNDER CONSTRUCTION, AS IT ADDS A WHOLE NEW DIMENSION TO THE AIR-SLIP MECH'S USABILITY AND FUNCTION AND THE DETAILS ARE BEING HAMMERED OUT THANKS TO RIFLEMECH'S QUESTIONS AND HELP.] EDITED 12/11/2023
These rules signify an Air-Slip Mech's full capabilities.

AIR-SLIP RULES:
[RULE 0] => The Air Slip Mech operates like a LAM Air Mech with the following exceptions:
I. Cruise MP = (JJ+2)*2. The additional +2MP comes from the Partial Wing rules being applied. Flank MP is still Cruise*1.5
II. When Flanking, Air Slip mechs only invoke the piloting rolls for "side slip" if they make a turn before moving straight for 3 hexes, otherwise they do not provoke piloting rolls (move->move->move->turn).
III. Using Cruise MP incures a +1 penalty to-hit when attacking, and Flank incures a +2 to-hit.
IV. When on Land, an Air-Slip mech moves at 1/2 what their normal Walking MP would be, which affects Running MP as normal. However, they still retain the Jumping MP as if it were a normal Battlemech (Jump MP = JJ + 2 from Partial Wing Rules). They can only choose one mode of movement, however, as per usual. While flying, an Air Mech cannot use Jumping MP in any way.
V. On the Air-Slip mech's turn, he cannot use Walking/Running MP before Taking Off, NOR after Landing.
VI. Capable of carrying handheld weaponry and other such objects within the normal 10% weight limit.
VII. With only one exception (the Avionics Suite), No special LAM critical hit tables, since there's no conversion equipment.
VIII. No bombbay capabilities.
IX. Capable of using any advanced tech as its introduced, as long as it remains Inner Sphere based. (Notable exceptions are artillery pieces/weaponry that take up more than one area of a mechs critical points.)
X. There is no ASF mode Capability.
(Original LAM rules are found in the Interstellar Operations book, for reference of differences)

Construction Rules:
A) Utilizes partial wing technology rules in construction, including jump distance, weight, and heat.
B) The mech will usually come with additional handheld weaponry.
-That's it. Ignore LAM construction rules and base it off of the above two points.


Notable Air-Slip Mechs (Under Construction):

Sparrow-2J

Code: [Select]

Sparrow SPW-2J

Mass: 25 tons
Chassis: Harvard 12K
Power Plant: GM 180
Cruising Speed: 86.4 kph
Maximum Speed: 129.6 kph
Jump Jets: GM ATO 100
     Jump Capacity: 300 meters
Armor: Durallex Light
Armament:
Manufacturer: Longshot Manufacturing
     Primary Factory: Logan Prime
Communication System: LongEar 10
Targeting & Tracking System: RadCom TXX
Introduction Year: 2844
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-E-D
Cost: 2,215,417 C-bills

Overview
THE prototype Air-Slip Mech, developed before the MPG-1E. Reducing the weight of the Harvard 12K chassis to create a more stable test bet, the Sparrow was designed for maximum maneuverability, though to keep it somewhat survivable, weapons had to be externally mounted/held, leading to the trend of Air-Slip handheld weaponry.

Capabilities
Scouting, Hit and Run, Harrasment, Racing

Deployment
Common Handheld Weapon Loadouts: "ProtoSeeder" (x5 RL10's) / "ProtoFeeder" (x3 Machine Guns, .5 Ton Ammo, .5 Ton Armor) / "Razor Beak" (Medium Chemical Laser, 1 Ton Ammo, .5 Ton Armor) / "Razor Claw" (x2 Medium Chemical Laser, .5 Ton Ammo)

History
Though a prototype to the Magpie, the LPM is not one to waste resources. Even to this day the Sparrow is still reproduced and used for light scouting operations and Harrasment, though only the best pilots would take it into a full combat situation. More often the Sparrows are used in local "Longshot" races.

Type: Sparrow
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Tonnage: 25
Battle Value: 360

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                  2.5
Engine                        200 Fusion            8.5
Walking MP: 8
Running MP: 12
Jumping MP: 10
Heat Sink                     10                      0
Gyro                                                  2
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  48                      3

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            8         6     
     Center Torso (rear)               1     
     R/L Torso               6         7     
     R/L Torso (rear)                  1     
     R/L Arm                 4         3     
     R/L Leg                 6         5     


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo              Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
2 Jump Jet               LL        2        -       1.0   
2 Heat Sink              CT        2        -       2.0   
2 Jump Jet               RT        2        -       1.0   
2 Jump Jet               LT        2        -       1.0   
Partial Wing           RT/LT      4/4       -       2.0   
2 Jump Jet               RL        2        -       1.0   
THE prototype Air-Slip Mech, developed before the MPG-1E. Reducing the weight of the Harvard 12K chassis to create a more stable test bed, the Sparrow was designed for maximum maneuverability first and survivability second. This led to an amazing jump distance and overall speed, with decent enough armor to survive being nicked given the speeds it would be traveling. However, offensive capabilities had to be dropped completely for even the small amount of armor it holds.

To give it at least some measure of defending itself, weapons had to be externally mounted/held, leading to the trend of Air-Slip handheld weaponry. Some of these earlier concepts include the use of Rocket Launchers in the Proto-Seeder for heavy burst hit-and-run tactics, and a Chemical Laser weapon called the Razor Beak with 30 shots for long term engagements. For heavier instant firepower, a double Chemical Laser variant known as the Razor Talon was developed, though the reduction in ammunition storage only allowed for both lasers to be fired together 7.5 times before the battery ran dry.

Magpie MGP-1E

Code: [Select]

Magpie MGP-1E

Mass: 30 tons
Chassis: Harvard 12K
Power Plant: GM 180
Cruising Speed: 64.8 kph
Maximum Speed: 97.2 kph
Jump Jets: GM ATO 100
     Jump Capacity: 240 meters
Armor: Durallex Light
Armament:
     1 Medium Laser
     1 SRM 4
Manufacturer: Longshot Manufacturing
     Primary Factory: Logan Prime
Communication System: LongEar 10
Targeting & Tracking System: RadCom TXX
Introduction Year: 2848
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-E-D
Cost: 2,469,740 C-bills

Overview
The first full refit of the Wasp LAM's Chassis, primary engagement unit of the Logan Prime Militia.

Capabilities
Scouting, Hit and Run, Swarm Combat

Deployment
Common Handheld Weapon Loadouts: "Seeder" (LRM-5, .5 Ton Ammo, .5 Ton Armor) / "Feeder" (4 Machine Guns, .5 Ton Ammo, .5 Ton Armor)

History
Introduced to service on Logan Prime in 2848, the MGP-1E was the beginning of Logan Prime's Air-Slip mechs, affectionately nicknamed "Longshots".

Type: Magpie
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Tonnage: 30
Battle Value: 658

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                    3
Engine                        180 Fusion              7
Walking MP: 6
Running MP: 9
Jumping MP: 8
Heat Sink                     10                      0
Gyro                                                  2
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  88                    5.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            10        13   
     Center Torso (rear)               4     
     R/L Torso               7         10   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  2     
     R/L Arm                 5         8     
     R/L Leg                 7         11   


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo              Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
2 Jump Jet               LL        2        -       1.0   
Heat Sink                CT        1        -       1.0   
SRM 4 Ammo (25)          CT        1        -       1.0   
Heat Sink                RT        1        -       1.0   
Jump Jet                 RT        1        -       0.5   
SRM 4                    RT        1        3       2.0   
Heat Sink                LT        1        -       1.0   
Jump Jet                 LT        1        -       0.5   
Medium Laser             LT        1        3       1.0   
Partial Wing           RT/LT      4/4       -       2.5   
2 Jump Jet               RL        2        -       1.0
Magpie MGP-3A

Code: [Select]

Magpie MGP-3A

Mass: 30 tons
Chassis: Harvard 12K
Power Plant: GM 180
Cruising Speed: 75.6 kph
Maximum Speed: 118.8 kph
Jump Jets: GM ATO 100
     Jump Capacity: 270 meters
Armor: Durallex Light
Armament:
     2 Medium Laser
Manufacturer: Longshot Manufacturing
     Primary Factory: Logan Prime
Communication System: LongEar 10
Targeting & Tracking System: RadCom TXX
Introduction Year: 2848
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-E-D
Cost: 2,958,540 C-bills

Overview
A Magpie Variation that sacrifices armor and firepower for greater maneuverability.

Capabilities
Scouting, Hit and Run, Swarm Combat

Deployment
Common Handheld Weapon Loadouts: "Seeder" (LRM-5, .5 Ton Ammo, .5 Ton Armor) / "Feeder" (4 Machine Guns, .5 Ton Ammo, .5 Ton Armor)

History
Introduced to service on Logan Prime in 2848 along with the 1E, the 3A sacrifices firepower and armor to further improve its scouting and maneuverability.

Type: Magpie
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Tonnage: 30
Battle Value: 650

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                    3
Engine                        210 Fusion              9
Walking MP: 7
Running MP: 11
Jumping MP: 9
Heat Sink                     10                      0
Gyro                                                  3
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  64                      4

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         7     
     Center Torso            10        9     
     Center Torso (rear)               2     
     R/L Torso               7         7     
     R/L Torso (rear)                  2     
     R/L Arm                 5         6     
     R/L Leg                 7         8     


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo              Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
2 Jump Jet               LL        2        -       1.0   
Jump Jet                 CT        1        -       0.5   
Heat Sink                RT        1        -       1.0   
Jump Jet                 RT        1        -       0.5   
Medium Laser             RT        1        3       1.0   
Heat Sink                LT        1        -       1.0   
Jump Jet                 LT        1        -       0.5   
Medium Laser             LT        1        3       1.0   
Partial Wing           RT/LT      4/4       -       2.5   
2 Jump Jet               RL        2        -       1.0   
The first full refits of the Wasp LAM's Chassis after initial test of concept with the Sparrow, resulting in the primary intercept unit of the Logan Prime Militia. With the full potential of its chassis weight realized, the Magpie variants are able to mount built in weaponry for self defense as compared to the Sparrow. Improved defense and armaments overall, the only sacrifice is toward their speed as a compromise, though they still have  an impressive jump distance for their weight due to their design.

Though armed, the advent of handheld weaponry on Logan Prime extends weapon options for the mech. Most notably the Seeder is upgraded from the Proto-Seeder, utilizing an LRM-5 instead of Rocket Launchers, improving accuracy and the ability to soften up the target as the pilot gets closer to the enemy.

Dire Hawk DRH-4K

Code: [Select]

Dire Hawk DRH-4K

Mass: 50 tons
Chassis: Dort 100
Power Plant: Allied 250
Cruising Speed: 54 kph
Maximum Speed: 86.4 kph
Jump Jets: Allied AVRTech 125[/spoiler]
     Jump Capacity: 210 meters
Armor: Durallex Light
Armament:
     1 Medium Laser
     1 SRM 4
     1 Large Laser
Manufacturer: Longshot Manufacturing
     Primary Factory: Logan Prime
Communication System: LongEar 10
Targeting & Tracking System: Hartford S2000
Introduction Year: 2867
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-E-D
Cost: 4,500,500 C-bills

Overview
A refit of the Phoenix Hawk LAM Chassis into an Air-Slip Mech. Boasts decent firepower and armor for its maneuverability.

Capabilities
Hit and Run, Harrasment

Deployment
Common Handheld Weapon Loadouts: "Dire Seeder" (x2 LRM-5s, 1 Ton Armor) / "Dire Feeder" (8 Machine Guns, .5 Ton Ammo, .5 Ton Armor) / "Dire Breaker" (x2 SRM4, .5 Ton Ammo, .5 Ton Armor) / "Talon" (x3 chemical lasers, 1 Ton Ammo, 1 Ton Armor)

History
After the success of the Magpies, Longshot Manufacturing took several years to work on a Phoenix Hawk based variant. After several prototypes, the Dire Hawk was introduced to service on Logan Prime in 2867.

Type: Dire Hawk
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Tonnage: 50
Battle Value: 1,161

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                    5
Engine                        250 Fusion           12.5
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 7
Heat Sink                     11                      1
Gyro                                                  3
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  136                   8.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            16        19   
     Center Torso (rear)               6     
     R/L Torso               12        16   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  4     
     R/L Arm                 8         12   
     R/L Leg                 12        19   


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo              Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Jump Jet                 LL        1        -       0.5   
Jump Jet                 CT        1        -       0.5   
SRM 4 Ammo (25)          CT        1        -       1.0   
Heat Sink                RT        1        -       1.0   
Medium Laser             RT        1        3       1.0   
Jump Jet                 RT        1        -       0.5   
SRM 4                    RT        1        3       2.0   
Jump Jet                 LT        1        -       0.5   
Large Laser              LT        2        8       5.0   
Partial Wing           RT/LT      4/4       -       3.5   
Jump Jet                 RL        1        -       0.5   
Dire Hawk DRH-3D

Code: [Select]

Dire Hawk DRH-3D

Mass: 50 tons
Chassis: Dort 100
Power Plant: Allied 250
Cruising Speed: 64.8 kph
Maximum Speed: 97.2 kph
Jump Jets: Allied AVRTech 125
     Jump Capacity: 240 meters
Armor: Durallex Light
Armament:
     2 Medium Laser
     4 Rocket Launcher 10
Manufacturer: Longshot Manufacturing
     Primary Factory: Logan Prime
Communication System: LongEar 10
Targeting & Tracking System: Hartford S2000
Introduction Year: 2867
Tech Rating/Availability: F/X-X-E-D
Cost: 4,797,000 C-bills

Overview
A prototype Air-Slip refit of the Phoenix Hawk LAM, and a testbed for the "Talon" Handheld weapon system. Designed for fast engagement with a fallback rocket launcher system once handheld weapons run out of ammo.

Capabilities
Hit and Run, Harrasment, Bombardment

Deployment
Common Handheld Weapon Loadouts: "Dire Seeder" (x2 LRM-5, 1 Ton Ammo) / "Dire Feeder" (8 Machine Guns, .5 Ton Ammo, .5 Ton Armor) / "Dire Breaker" (x2 SRM4, .5 Ton Ammo, .5 Ton Armor) / "Talon" (x3 chemical lasers, 1 Ton Ammo, 1 Ton Armor)

History
After the success of the Magpies, Longshot Manufacturing took several years to work on a Phoenix Hawk based variant. This was the first successful prototype, developed to test "Talon" handheld weapon, a chemical based Tri-Laser system.

Type: Dire Hawk
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Tonnage: 50
Battle Value: 1,174

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                    5
Engine                        300 Fusion             19
Walking MP: 6
Running MP: 9
Jumping MP: 8
Heat Sink                     10                      0
Gyro                                                  3
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  152                   9.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            16        22   
     Center Torso (rear)               7     
     R/L Torso               12        17   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  5     
     R/L Arm                 8         14   
     R/L Leg                 12        21   


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo               Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Jump Jet                  LL        1        -       0.5   
2 Jump Jet                CT        2        -       1.0   
Medium Laser              RT        1        3       1.0   
Jump Jet                  RT        1        -       0.5   
2 Rocket Launcher 10      RT        2        3       1.0   
Medium Laser              LT        1        3       1.0   
Jump Jet                  LT        1        -       0.5   
Partial Wing            RT/LT      4/4       -       3.5   
2 Rocket Launcher 10      LT        2        3       1.0   
Jump Jet                  RL        1        -       0.5   
The DireHawk is an Air-Slip refit of the PhoenixHawk LAM, boasting a balance of speed, firepower, and armor in its design. After the success of the Sparrow and the Magpies, the design team at Longshot Manufacturing went on to their final refit project with the DireHawks, which became the heavy strike troopers on Logan Prime, capable of out maneuvering mechs of similar weight or higher, while still boasting impressive firepower. With its size came more room to experiment, resulting in two variants of the design.

The 3D was a prototype of the design, in an attempt to utilize the Rocket Launcher technology on the mech itself. It also served as a test bed for the Talon handheld tri-laser system, meant to deliver armor-melting bursts of grouped laser fire. The Dire-Talon was a 4 laser design that, while in danger of being crippled from a single shot, provided enough firepower to rival an AC/20 for a short period of time. After either of these weapons were used up, a pair of medium lasers and four RL-10s provided backup firepower as they made their exit to restock.

The 4K is an overall more balanced approach to the design, meant for going toe to toe with heavier mechs by outmaneuvering them and punching them with impressive firepower from a built in Large Laser, Medium Laser, and SRM-4 launcher. Due to their larger weight, the Seeders of the Magpies were upgraded to DireSeeders, sporting two LRM-5’s and one ton of ammo to soften up targets as they get closer. They proved to be an impressive heavy strike force to swoop in and reinforce the Magpies after their initial strike and harassment.


[This post is under construction, as I still have to post the construction data and record sheets of the Air-Slip mechs, and I might need to make some adjustments to add more lore details.

[Dakkath]

I am one million % here for fixed aeromech chassis designs

[LAMFAN]

I am one million % here for fixed aeromech chassis designs

Thanks!  I've just added in the technical sheets for the Air-Slip Mechs as well if you want to take a look at builds and lore.

Since CGL decided to make LAM's all but extinct and their rules janky as hell, I decided to make a loophole to keep their spirit still alive here. Though they use Fixed Wing construction rules earlier than introduced, it still works since its just refitting the existing chassis.

I WILL KEEP THE DREAM ALIVE DAMMIT.

[Dakkath]

In a case of convergent design evolution, I had a clantech fixed wing mech that very closely fits the design challenge.

Screaming Eagle SEG-1

Code: [Select]

Mass: 50 tons
Tech Base: Clan
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E-D
Production Year: 3070
Dry Cost: 12,270,000 C-Bills
Total Cost: 12,270,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 2,180

Chassis: Endo-Steel
Power Plant: 300 Fusion XL Engine
Jump Jets: 9 Improved
Armor: Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    5  Medium Pulse Lasers

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                    83 points                2.50
    Internal Locations: 1 LT, 3 LA, 3 RA
Engine:             XL Fusion Engine             300                       9.50
    Walking MP: 6 (64.8 km/h)
    Running MP: 9 (97.2 km/h)
    Jumping MP: 9 (11) Improved (270 meters (330 meters))
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 3 LT, 3 RT, 1 LL, 1 RL                       9.00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             12(27)                    2.00
Gyro:               Standard                                               3.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor:              Ferro-Fibrous                AV - 163                  8.50
    Armor Locations: 1 RT, 3 LA, 3 RA

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     16           25       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  7         
                                           L/R Torso     12           18       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  6         
                                             L/R Arm     8            16       
                                             L/R Leg     12           21       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Medium Pulse Lasers                        RA        8         2         4.00
2 Medium Pulse Lasers                        LA        8         2         4.00
Partial Wing                                 LT/RT     -         3/3       2.50
Medium Pulse Laser                           HD        4         1         2.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 0

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      5    Points: 22
6/11j      4       4       0       0      2     0   Structure:  3
Special Abilities: ENE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

[Red Pins]

I came up with the same thing!  I call them Permanent Air-Mechs.

Have you seen the twin-boom flying car that they're trying to build?  I saw that, and it took an act of will not to write rules for it.

[RifleMech]

I think there should be fixed AirMechs and have thought about using partial wings making them. I like that you're using them for more than combat. That's cool. My issue is that they seem too good. They feel less AirMech https://www.macross2.net/m3/sdfmacross/vf-1a-valkyrie/vf-1a-gerwalk.png and more Dragonar Mech with Flight Pack. https://www.mahq.net/xdfu-01/

If they're going to be the latter I'd skip the conversion completely, especially since they're only jumping. If they're AirMechs, they should fly and have more disadvantages while on the ground.

[LAMFAN]

I think there should be fixed AirMechs and have thought about using partial wings making them. I like that you're using them for more than combat. That's cool. My issue is that they seem too good. They feel less AirMech https://www.macross2.net/m3/sdfmacross/vf-1a-valkyrie/vf-1a-gerwalk.png and more Dragonar Mech with Flight Pack. https://www.mahq.net/xdfu-01/

If they're going to be the latter I'd skip the conversion completely, especially since they're only jumping. If they're AirMechs, they should fly and have more disadvantages while on the ground.

To clarify, thats more for scenario play or agreed upon rules if its cool with the people you're playing with or scenario stuff. Otherwise the WiGE rules only apply OUT of combat to either race or get your mech to and from the frontline. In actual combat without that little caveat, they ONLY act as mechs designed with Partial Wing rules.

My whole concept for this was to justify the use of the Air Mech mode look in some way on a Periphery world within existing rules and canon without pushing the boundaries of what is believable. There's little-to-no lore on Logan Prime, so it seemed like the perfect place to set it up.

In a case of convergent design evolution, I had a clantech fixed wing mech that very closely fits the design challenge.

Screaming Eagle SEG-1

Code: [Select]

Mass: 50 tons
Tech Base: Clan
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-E-D
Production Year: 3070
Dry Cost: 12,270,000 C-Bills
Total Cost: 12,270,000 C-Bills
Battle Value: 2,180

Chassis: Endo-Steel
Power Plant: 300 Fusion XL Engine
Jump Jets: 9 Improved
Armor: Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
    5  Medium Pulse Lasers

================================================================================
Equipment           Type                         Rating                   Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel                    83 points                2.50
    Internal Locations: 1 LT, 3 LA, 3 RA
Engine:             XL Fusion Engine             300                       9.50
    Walking MP: 6 (64.8 km/h)
    Running MP: 9 (97.2 km/h)
    Jumping MP: 9 (11) Improved (270 meters (330 meters))
    Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 3 LT, 3 RT, 1 LL, 1 RL                       9.00
Heat Sinks:         Double Heat Sink             12(27)                    2.00
Gyro:               Standard                                               3.00
Cockpit:            Standard                                               3.00
    Actuators:      L: SH+UA+LA+H    R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor:              Ferro-Fibrous                AV - 163                  8.50
    Armor Locations: 1 RT, 3 LA, 3 RA

                                                      Internal       Armor     
                                                      Structure      Factor     
                                                Head     3            9         
                                        Center Torso     16           25       
                                 Center Torso (rear)                  7         
                                           L/R Torso     12           18       
                                    L/R Torso (rear)                  6         
                                             L/R Arm     8            16       
                                             L/R Leg     12           21       

================================================================================
Equipment                                 Location    Heat    Critical    Mass 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 Medium Pulse Lasers                        RA        8         2         4.00
2 Medium Pulse Lasers                        LA        8         2         4.00
Partial Wing                                 LT/RT     -         3/3       2.50
Medium Pulse Laser                           HD        4         1         2.00
                                            Free Critical Slots: 0

BattleForce Statistics
MV      S (+0)  M (+2)  L (+4)  E (+6)   Wt.   Ov   Armor:      5    Points: 22
6/11j      4       4       0       0      2     0   Structure:  3
Special Abilities: ENE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

Though I enjoy the enthusiasm, I'm not too keen on Clantech, especially since they made it their mission to wipe out LAMs in the Inner Sphere. I'm keen on making the Air-Slip/Longshot design the ghosts that come back to haunt the Clans for that egregious sin.

[garhkal]

I like the concept of these..  AND the fluff for why they exist.

[LAMFAN]

I like the concept of these..  AND the fluff for why they exist.

Thanks! Took me a long time working with other BT anons to develop this idea and polish it up (Shoutout to /btg/ for all the help and brainstorming). I'll probably be designing a few more that include post-3025 technology....eventually.

[RifleMech]

To clarify, thats more for scenario play or agreed upon rules if its cool with the people you're playing with or scenario stuff. Otherwise the WiGE rules only apply OUT of combat to either race or get your mech to and from the frontline. In actual combat without that little caveat, they ONLY act as mechs designed with Partial Wing rules.

My whole concept for this was to justify the use of the Air Mech mode look in some way on a Periphery world within existing rules and canon without pushing the boundaries of what is believable. There's little-to-no lore on Logan Prime, so it seemed like the perfect place to set it up.

Movement styles shouldn't change whether or not the unit is in combat, especially when you never know when combat will happen. There's always a chance of being ambushed or going into a minefield. And then there's scouting missions where you don't want to engage in a fight but get your intel and report back. Having to change movement types mid game would be confusing.

If you want an AirMech styled Mech, like the Dragonar, just go with partial wings. Then you've got a Mech with wings that can jump further. If you want an AirMech, like the VF-1 GERWALK, go with an AirMech.

Either way, I'd suggest having one set movement rules for AirSlips. Not an either or but one set of movement rules. I'd also suggest limiting the speed more. 2xJJ would work for a pure AirMech sized unit. I would limit the flight sealing though as partial wings don't provide as much lift. I wouldn't go more than 8 Elevations above the ground. Otherwise follow the AirMech movement rules as in IO. Minus Turn Modes of course. 

If you're wanting a full sized Mech with Partial Wings, I think 2xJJ is too fast. I say that because a full 2 level sized Mech would not only have more drag but it would be flying at Elevation 3 minimum. If both unit types are paying 2MP per hex when flying at 2+ Elevations above he ground, an AirSlip and an Airmech with the same number of JJs would be moving at the same speed. With lighter "flight equipment" and being able to use weight saving tech, AirSlips become too good. They'd better than LAMs under their original rules when LAMs had no tech restrictions.

For a mech using partial wings, I'd recommend using #JJ x1.5 to determine WiGE MP. So a 6/9/9 AirSlip would have 14 WiGE MP.  Then add the +1MP per hex when flying higher than elevation 3. (Below that it's using it's legs.) I'd also limit the AirSlip's flying to Elevations 3 and 4, as the partial wings don't allow as much lift. That way the AirSlip isn't as fast or maneuverable in the air as the AirMech which pays more in weight for that privalage. The AiSlip would still be faster on the ground and can use other weight saving tech, so it still seems too good but it wouldn't out AirMech and AirMech. I'd see if there's some way to keep AirSlips from outclassing AirMech and Mechs. Like keeping the Aviation Crits though as it does fly. 

Though I enjoy the enthusiasm, I'm not too keen on Clantech, especially since they made it their mission to wipe out LAMs in the Inner Sphere. I'm keen on making the Air-Slip/Longshot design the ghosts that come back to haunt the Clans for that egregious sin.

How the Clans feel about LAMs depends on the time period and the individual Clan. The Nova Cats did something with the Stinger LAM Factory. So at best, they felt no need to use LAM, and hated them at worst. The Jade Falcons experimented with their own LAMs but decided they weren't worth it. I'd say they're more indifferent to them. Wolf equipped Wolf's Dragoons with multiple LAMs, at least one of which was piloted by a Goliath Scorpion. So at one time, both those Clans used LAMs. And as Hell's Horses developed QuadVees, I don't imagine they'd have a problem with LAMs. So, I wouldn't say that all Clan hate LAMs. That doesn't mean that the Clans would have developed their own pure AirMechs though. So if you don't want Clans to have them, don't.    

[LAMFAN]

Movement styles shouldn't change whether or not the unit is in combat, especially when you never know when combat will happen. There's always a chance of being ambushed or going into a minefield. And then there's scouting missions where you don't want to engage in a fight but get your intel and report back. Having to change movement types mid game would be confusing.

If you want an AirMech styled Mech, like the Dragonar, just go with partial wings. Then you've got a Mech with wings that can jump further. If you want an AirMech, like the VF-1 GERWALK, go with an AirMech.

I mean, to clarify even FURTHER, I made rules for the WiGE movement in the event I came up for a reason to play with it. Otherwise, its pure fluff. I could also come up with a justification as to why Air-Slip/Longshot mechs need to slow down and WiGE around when enganging combat with other mechs, hence why they only use their WiGE when traveling to and from the battlefield or when racing (something something "they have to be in an out-of-combat situation to safely initiate takeoff for their WiGE flight").

Plus, it justifies the use of Partial Wing rules and Handheld Weaponry rules many years before they are actually introduced to the inner sphere as a whole.

I say all this due to the fact that I don't know how BV2 would function with non-fluffed rules for modified Air-Mechs, and I'd need to have a good grasp on that before I make MFC (Mid-Combat-Flight) something officially useable in combat outside of fluff.

[RifleMech]

I mean, to clarify even FURTHER, I made rules for the WiGE movement in the event I came up for a reason to play with it. Otherwise, its pure fluff. I could also come up with a justification as to why Air-Slip/Longshot mechs need to slow down and WiGE around when enganging combat with other mechs, hence why they only use their WiGE when traveling to and from the battlefield or when racing (something something "they have to be in an out-of-combat situation to safely initiate takeoff for their WiGE flight").

Plus, it justifies the use of Partial Wing rules and Handheld Weaponry rules many years before they are actually introduced to the inner sphere as a whole.

I say all this due to the fact that I don't know how BV2 would function with non-fluffed rules for modified Air-Mechs, and I'd need to have a good grasp on that before I make MFC (Mid-Combat-Flight) something officially useable in combat outside of fluff.

You should have an idea of how to play it in the event you decide to use it. Otherwise, everything stops until you figure it out. It's also okay to have something introduced before others. The background is pretty cool.

I don't use BV so I can't help with that but I do know that you have to be careful about making things too good. As is, AirSlips are better than LAMs under pre Tactical Handbook rules. Under those rules you could build a 100 ton OMNI LAM with Clan tech including ES, FF, and XL Engine and there was no reduced MP for flying higher. That's what Airslips remind me of and why I'm suggesting toning AirSlips down. They're too good.

[LAMFAN]

I don't use BV so I can't help with that but I do know that you have to be careful about making things too good. As is, AirSlips are better than LAMs under pre Tactical Handbook rules. Under those rules you could build a 100 ton OMNI LAM with Clan tech including ES, FF, and XL Engine and there was no reduced MP for flying higher. That's what Airslips remind me of and why I'm suggesting toning AirSlips down. They're too good.

But you can't really make a 100 ton Air-Slip mech because it's based on existing LAM chassis and built on a periphery world. You'd have to build a brand new LAM chassis from the ground up with a wing design to even BEGIN with something like that, and Logan Prime nor Longshot Manufacturing has that capability. The 55 ton limit still stands I would think.

Either way though, I do think putting a limit on the tech so that it can't be an OMNI in any way; the spirit of it is refitting an old IS design and pulling out the complicated extra bits and using what's left to make a home grown force on a budget, and because of what they have to use, it turns out to be a very unique force (without turning into special snowflake territory).

EDIT: I've made changes; the 55 ton limit is in place even if someone were to build a brand new chassis, and the technology must remain IS based.

[Charistoph]

As soon as they found out about it, I could see Clans like the Falcons, Ravens, and Cobras being interested in such a concept.  Hell's Horses are also pretty accepting in new systems.

The Jade Falcons experimented with their own LAMs but decided they weren't worth it.

That's because of how they went about addressing it.  LAMs were designed to be piloted by a multi-discipline pilot who could handle ASF as well as Mech piloting.

The Falcons designed theirs to be akin to QuadVees in that there were 2 pilots in the Mech.  This competition between pilots led to an internal combative unit.  Hell's Horses might be able to get past this, but no other Clan could.

These Air-Slips won't have this problem, though, as they aren't dual-pilot units.

[RifleMech]

But you can't really make a 100 ton Air-Slip mech because it's based on existing LAM chassis and built on a periphery world. You'd have to build a brand new LAM chassis from the ground up with a wing design to even BEGIN with something like that, and Logan Prime nor Longshot Manufacturing has that capability. The 55 ton limit still stands I would think.

Either way though, I do think putting a limit on the tech so that it can't be an OMNI in any way; the spirit of it is refitting an old IS design and pulling out the complicated extra bits and using what's left to make a home grown force on a budget, and because of what they have to use, it turns out to be a very unique force (without turning into special snowflake territory).

EDIT: I've made changes; the 55 ton limit is in place even if someone were to build a brand new chassis, and the technology must remain IS based.

There is a heavier LAM but I can see them not knowing about it and not building a heavier AirSlip.

The thing is, with limited Tech, the units should be lesser than the units they're based on. AirSlips are superior. That's were I have a problem. The concept is fine. They're just too good.

As soon as they found out about it, I could see Clans like the Falcons, Ravens, and Cobras being interested in such a concept.  Hell's Horses are also pretty accepting in new systems.

That's because of how they went about addressing it.  LAMs were designed to be piloted by a multi-discipline pilot who could handle ASF as well as Mech piloting.

The Falcons designed theirs to be akin to QuadVees in that there were 2 pilots in the Mech.  This competition between pilots led to an internal combative unit.  Hell's Horses might be able to get past this, but no other Clan could.

These Air-Slips won't have this problem, though, as they aren't dual-pilot units.

Yeah. Reading about the Jade Falcon LAM crews fighting each other in the cockpit was great. Unfortunately, LAMs got blamed instead of the Clan system. Unless they go with traditional LAMs I'm not sure
any Clans other than Hells Horses would use them. They're the only ones who are okay with crews in the cockpit. I'm surprised Hell's Horses haven't created their own LAMs to go with their QuadVees.

[LAMFAN]

There is a heavier LAM but I can see them not knowing about it and not building a heavier AirSlip.

The thing is, with limited Tech, the units should be lesser than the units they're based on. AirSlips are superior. That's were I have a problem. The concept is fine. They're just too good.

I'm still failing to see how a mech that only acts within the rules that currently exist (Partial Wing Rules) and its "flying" abilities as only fluff is too good. I feel like we're talking past each other on this one.

Would you rather I make two sets of rules entirely? One set where they just act like mechs with the Partial Wing Rules (which is what it currently is) for a simplified playstile and a second one that leans more into the fluff actually being used in combat (WiGE, Air Mech properties, etc)?

[RifleMech]

I'm still failing to see how a mech that only acts within the rules that currently exist (Partial Wing Rules) and its "flying" abilities as only fluff is too good. I feel like we're talking past each other on this one.

Would you rather I make two sets of rules entirely? One set where they just act like mechs with the Partial Wing Rules (which is what it currently is) for a simplified playstile and a second one that leans more into the fluff actually being used in combat (WiGE, Air Mech properties, etc)?

1) Partial Wings weigh less than Trimodal Conversion Systems. For a 55 ton LAM that's 1.5 tons. And you have AirSlips converting between modes. That's free tonnage for AirSlips.

2) AirSlips don't spend a turn converting between modes. That makes them faster going from Mech to AirSlip.

3) AirSlips can use partial wings in Mech mode. LAMs cannot. That lets the AirSlip Mech jump further than the LAM's Mech mode.

4) AirSlips can use any item prohibited to LAMs. That includes hand held weapons. That provides huge advantages in weight savings, and speed.

5) AirSlips are faster on the ground. No 1/3 movement AirMech have when walking/running.

You basically have a Mech that can fly that doesn't need to convert  for less weight than a LAM. It's better than the original LAM Rules.

[LAMFAN]

1) Partial Wings weigh less than Trimodal Conversion Systems. For a 55 ton LAM that's 1.5 tons. And you have AirSlips converting between modes. That's free tonnage for AirSlips.

2) AirSlips don't spend a turn converting between modes. That makes them faster going from Mech to AirSlip.

3) AirSlips can use partial wings in Mech mode. LAMs cannot. That lets the AirSlip Mech jump further than the LAM's Mech mode.

4) AirSlips can use any item prohibited to LAMs. That includes hand held weapons. That provides huge advantages in weight savings, and speed.

5) AirSlips are faster on the ground. No 1/3 movement AirMech have when walking/running.

You basically have a Mech that can fly that doesn't need to convert  for less weight than a LAM. It's better than the original LAM Rules.

I see, there's some misconceptions I see are taking place due to clarifications necessary (and honestly, thanks because these are good questions to ask so I can plug up any holes in the actual rules that aren't clear):

1) Incorrect; Partial wings are 7% of the mechs total weight. For a 55 tonner, thats 4 tons of weight going to the wings, not 1.5. Now, if you mean that it would weigh 1.5 Tons less? I mean, not being able to transform into an ASF mode because of conversion equipment being torn out is the trade off for that and a logical one.

2) Yes they do, I never stated that they no longer take a turn to "transform". I can clarify it more in the actual rule set, but its just that they don't LAND in the "Air Slip" mode (reminding you AGAIN, the current flying capabilities of an Air-Slip are FLUFF for the background), landing itself is the conversion, which still takes a turn. To land for combat, or to take off for Air Slip flight, they need to take a turn landing/launching by reorienting their legs and frame for it.

3) Yes. Air Slip Mechs tear out LAM conversion equipment and simplify it down to the Air Mech frame; while on land and acting as a mech, it's body still remains wing-shaped. They have no ASF mode. This isn't so much better as its making use of one mode's frame and controls.

4) That's incorrect but I can see how that can get missinterpreted based on how it was written. I just edited the rules, but they CAN use advanced Inner Sphere tech and hand held weapons. However, Clan Tech, artillery and weaponry that takes up more than one section's critical spots are still examples of prohibited items. It doesn't make sense to put an artillery piece on a flying mech or something that takes one of its arms away (then what's the point of the Air-Mech look?).

5) I've only really intended for Air Slip mechs to just Jump a lot and act like battlemechs with the partial wing rules when actually playing them in an actual match for now, with their flight modes being (again) FLUFF and background and something to test out for fun if the opportunity came up.

In the end, the mech still takes a turn to "transform" (reorient itself so that it's flying/landing safely), the reduced weight makes complete logical sense due to the conversion equipment being torn out and loss of ASF mode, and there are still limits on tech and equipment that I've done some editing on to make sure its more clear in the rules.

I will say this though, this is giving me insperation to make a separate set of rules to really hammer out using Air-Slip mode in game. That way, you have the original rules which is just treating them like battlemechs with partial wings and hendheld weaponry (keeping it simple and the background more fluffy), and a second set for those who want to actively fly across the battlefield like an Air-Mech.

So, I'd be more than happy to brainstorm that second set of rules with you and other people here to come up with an idea.

[LAMFAN]

Alrighty, so after taking some inspiration from the current discussion in another thread about LAM rules redesign, I've just updated the my Air-Slip concept with a 2nd optional set of rules for them to more accurately match the fluff. These will, more than likely, gain some tweaks and clarifications as more criticism or rules/issues I've missed or didn't take into account pop up, but this is a good starting point.

MCP (Mid Combat Flight), or the Secondary Ruleset for how to play Air-Slip Mechs:
The Air-Slip Mech operates as a LAM's Air-Mech with two modes of function; LANDED and FLYING: LANDED is where the mech is on the ground and acts as a Battlemech with modified ground movement. FLYING, the mech acts like an Air Mech with modified rules. Switching between the two modes is not so much a "transformation", its just a reorientation of its legs and JJs to provide thrust necessary to fly in atmosphere with its wings/wing-like body while flying, and then Landing in such a mode:

LANDED ("Battlemech" Mode):
I. Is built and acts like a Battlemech with the Partial Wings.
II. Its Walking and Running MP is 1/2 (rounding up) of its normal amount, though Jumping MP remains the same.

FLYING ("Air-Slip" Mode):
[RULE 0] => The Air Slip Mech operates like a LAM Air Mech with the following exceptions:
I. Cruise MP = (JJx2)+2. The additional 2MP comes from the Partial Wing rules being applied. Flank MP is still Cruise*1.5
II. When Flanking, Air Slip mechs can choose to EITHER use Air-Slip penalties for turning, OR use Turn Mode rules.
III. Take Off and Hover only cost 3 MP each, and Hover only activates when moving less than 3 hexes.
IV. When using the WiGE movement, there are no additional MP costs for flying 2+ levels above the ground (only 1MP per hex movement as opposed to 2MP).
V. "Transformation" or "Switching Modes" as it were is the same as landing. On the Air-Slip mech's turn, he cannot use Walking/Running MP before Taking Off, NOR after Landing.
VI. Capable of carrying handheld weaponry in either mode, since there's no conversions that require one to drop anything in their hand.
VII. No special LAM critical hit tables, since there's no conversion equipment.
VIII. No bombbay capabilities.
IX. Capable of using any advanced tech as its introduced, as long as it remains Inner Sphere based. (Notable exceptions are artillery pieces/weaponry that take up more than one area of a mechs critical points.)
X. There is no ASF mode Capability.

[RifleMech]

A part of me really wants to just skip the conversion part. It sounds like the AirSlip is more like the Dragonar but then it's supposed to be more like an AirMech. It's confusing. If it's more like an AirMech I don't think the jump jets need reorienting. If there's some conversion there should be some weight to it. Maybe a flat .5 tons per every 3JJ or something.

I. I can see the 2xJJ with the partial wings. Less lift from the wing means more thrust from the JJ going to lift than to forward movement.

II. I think it'd be better to just have one movement rules with options that can be added. With either or player one could use Turn Modes and player 2 Air-slipping. That's confusing. More so if the players change in the middle of the game.

III + IV. There isn't any reason to reduce the cost of Taking off and hovering. It would make Airslips better than AirMechs and WiGEs. If these are based on AirMechs they should follow AirMech movement. Also with less wing the JJs are working harder to maintain lift so I would think it would cost more MP when flying higher, not less. Plus the lighter weight of the Partial Wings and use of advanced tech allows for more JJ if desired. That should compensate for increased movement costs.

VI. If there's no conversions there shouldn't be a worry about dropping the handheld weapon. I would have them follow the lifting and cargo carrying rules with the exception that handhelds can be used one handed if they can be picked up with one hand.

VII. I'd keep the Avionics crits if it's going to fly.

VIII. I can see eliminating bomb bays if the AirSlip can't fly at higher elevations. If they can't fly higher, limit the number of elevations they can climb and maybe how long they can stay there. WiGEs descend at the end of their movement.

[LAMFAN]

A part of me really wants to just skip the conversion part. It sounds like the AirSlip is more like the Dragonar but then it's supposed to be more like an AirMech. It's confusing. If it's more like an AirMech I don't think the jump jets need reorienting. If there's some conversion there should be some weight to it. Maybe a flat .5 tons per every 3JJ or something.

BBasically it's like the Air Mech only when its on the ground it can jump. If you look at my profile picture, thats what I mean by reorienting the legs and jump jets back to fly; it pushes its legs back after jumping up to provide forward thrust and start flying, or to land puts its legs forward to slow down and land. No complicated "transformation", which is why I always put the words in "quotes".

As for everything else...

I. I mean most of the jjx2 isn't from just partial wing, but the conversion equipment and systems having been torn out of the frame and replaced. the "Partial Wing" aspect really only comes into play when its landed, where the wings lock in place and act as such for the purpose of jumping.

But yeah I figured this would be a good system. My question is, between these two calculations, which would you lean more toward in terms of fair/balanced?: (jjx2)+2=Cruise MP, or (jj+2)x2= Cruise MP? I'm debating it and would like some feedback here.

II. Ah, good point that needed to be more clarified. But yeah I might as well stick with one system, probably with a tweaked rule to it.

III. Fair on hover and takeoff. I suppose it would still take a decent MP to start moving and then the next turn you're really getting to enjoy that speed. Adds balance with the JJx2 cruise issue.

IV. As for the level MP increase, with the reduced speed and how terrain works, I'm not so sure on that. Always thought it was a bit much to double the hex movement MP cost when just 2 levels high with its ability to hover and everything. That might need more discussion.

VI. At that point it gets into Handheld mechanics which becomes a whole other set of rules to tackle to change. As for this overall...yeah your right I think I was getting confused with the other thread on LAMs for this one, I'll go and clarify.

VII. That I don't mind, it actually makes sense and keeps it unique. Thanks!

VIII. Yeah, definitely no bomb-bays; Air-Slip mechs are, at least in my mind, capable of low-altitude flight the same way that Air Mechs are (or I thought they were). Since their systems are no longer so heavily dedicated to conversion equipment, having a heavier focus on just being able to fly at low altitudes better. I would still say to keep the 25 level limit, just for stability and rationality. They're not able to fight conventional fighters, but VTOLs and other such vehicles would be fair game to keep up with. Part of the reason that on rule IV I'm hesitant to take it back down to 2MP at 2+ levels; its got enough of a speed gimp with 2xJJ and it seems the perfect speed for them to move across the land and sky without being busted.


Thanks for the feedback! I'mma make some edits to the rules with some of those pointers in mind.

[RifleMech]

BBasically it's like the Air Mech only when its on the ground it can jump. If you look at my profile picture, thats what I mean by reorienting the legs and jump jets back to fly; it pushes its legs back after jumping up to provide forward thrust and start flying, or to land puts its legs forward to slow down and land. No complicated "transformation", which is why I always put the words in "quotes".

If that's all it's doing, then I think you're over complicating it. Mech reorient their legs walking and jumping so I don't think AirSlips need to convert or anything. They'd just take off and land.

As for everything else...

I. I mean most of the jjx2 isn't from just partial wing, but the conversion equipment and systems having been torn out of the frame and replaced. the "Partial Wing" aspect really only comes into play when its landed, where the wings lock in place and act as such for the purpose of jumping.

But yeah I figured this would be a good system. My question is, between these two calculations, which would you lean more toward in terms of fair/balanced?: (jjx2)+2=Cruise MP, or (jj+2)x2= Cruise MP? I'm debating it and would like some feedback here.

The wings would be part of the conversion system so less wing would be less lift.

I'd probably go with the first one. It lets AirMechs have a little bit better speed for the extra weight of their conversion system.

II. Ah, good point that needed to be more clarified. But yeah I might as well stick with one system, probably with a tweaked rule to it.

Tweaking is works.

III. Fair on hover and takeoff. I suppose it would still take a decent MP to start moving and then the next turn you're really getting to enjoy that speed. Adds balance with the JJx2 cruise issue.

Yep.

IV. As for the level MP increase, with the reduced speed and how terrain works, I'm not so sure on that. Always thought it was a bit much to double the hex movement MP cost when just 2 levels high with its ability to hover and everything. That might need more discussion.

Hovering and flying are at the same level. If you want to go higher you pay MP to go higher. Hovering just lets the AirMech avoid the required minimum 5 forward hexes. As for the 2 MP per hex, the Unit is flying higher so there's less ground effect providing lift. With the thrusters providing more lift there's less thrust for forward movement. So 2 MP per hex makes sense.

VI. At that point it gets into Handheld mechanics which becomes a whole other set of rules to tackle to change. As for this overall...yeah your right I think I was getting confused with the other thread on LAMs for this one, I'll go and clarify.

No worries.

VII. That I don't mind, it actually makes sense and keeps it unique. Thanks!

You're welcome :)

VIII. Yeah, definitely no bomb-bays; Air-Slip mechs are, at least in my mind, capable of low-altitude flight the same way that Air Mechs are (or I thought they were). Since their systems are no longer so heavily dedicated to conversion equipment, having a heavier focus on just being able to fly at low altitudes better. I would still say to keep the 25 level limit, just for stability and rationality. They're not able to fight conventional fighters, but VTOLs and other such vehicles would be fair game to keep up with. Part of the reason that on rule IV I'm hesitant to take it back down to 2MP at 2+ levels; its got enough of a speed gimp with 2xJJ and it seems the perfect speed for them to move across the land and sky without being busted.

AirMechs can't climb higher than 25 Elevations. They can fly and descend from greater heights if they convert from Fighter Mode at those Altitudes.

Thanks for the feedback! I'mma make some edits to the rules with some of those pointers in mind.

You're welcome. :)

[LAMFAN]

Hovering and flying are at the same level. If you want to go higher you pay MP to go higher. Hovering just lets the AirMech avoid the required minimum 5 forward hexes. As for the 2 MP per hex, the Unit is flying higher so there's less ground effect providing lift. With the thrusters providing more lift there's less thrust for forward movement. So 2 MP per hex makes sense.

I see, and to be honest, with Cruise MP = (JJ+2)x2, then it's actually pretty well balanced with the 2MP per hex. I've made the edits to the rules for here.

If that's all it's doing, then I think you're over complicating it. Mech reorient their legs walking and jumping so I don't think AirSlips need to convert or anything. They'd just take off and land.

I mean pretty much but....I like to be thorough so its well understood, since I'm basing this off of the Air Mech rules.

[RifleMech]

I see, and to be honest, with Cruise MP = (JJ+2)x2, then it's actually pretty well balanced with the 2MP per hex. I've made the edits to the rules for here.

I mean pretty much but....I like to be thorough so its well understood, since I'm basing this off of the Air Mech rules.

That's cool.

Being thorough is good but Airmechs don't have to convert to take off. That make talk about converting to do so confusing.

[LAMFAN]

That's cool.

Being thorough is good but Airmechs don't have to convert to take off. That make talk about converting to do so confusing.

To be honest, that's a fair point in the end. Essentially with the ground movement, the only difference there with an Air Mech now is that it can still jump. I've changed up the rules so its (hopefully) less confusing and more streamlined. I think this might be the finalized version of the rules!

[RifleMech]

To be honest, that's a fair point in the end. Essentially with the ground movement, the only difference there with an Air Mech now is that it can still jump. I've changed up the rules so its (hopefully) less confusing and more streamlined. I think this might be the finalized version of the rules!

I'm still not sure about the jumping. I remember a lot of complaints about the AirMech's super jump. I'd be very clear about whether or not the AirSlip is Jumping or Taking off. Even that might have someone ask why jumping doesn't cost MP to lift off but taking off does.

[LAMFAN]

I'm still not sure about the jumping. I remember a lot of complaints about the AirMech's super jump. I'd be very clear about whether or not the AirSlip is Jumping or Taking off. Even that might have someone ask why jumping doesn't cost MP to lift off but taking off does.

Oh yeah, I have that clearly laid out that you can only use the Jump MP when on the ground. And that last part is simpe; taking off would require more finness and stabalized thrust to get the Air Mech safely into the air to actually "fly", while jumping is just hitting the gas and then falling with grace.

[RifleMech]

Oh yeah, I have that clearly laid out that you can only use the Jump MP when on the ground. And that last part is simpe; taking off would require more finness and stabalized thrust to get the Air Mech safely into the air to actually "fly", while jumping is just hitting the gas and then falling with grace.

I'm not sure how jumping would require more fineness than taking off. The motions are the same. The former just lands sooner than the latter.

[LAMFAN]

I'm not sure how jumping would require more fineness than taking off. The motions are the same. The former just lands sooner than the latter.

Well just to be clear, it's taking off that requires more finesse. And the answer is pretty simple; With Jumping it's purely to lift you into the air in an arc to land elsewhere; it still requires control, but it's more simple of a concept than Taking Off. Taking off requires stablized and controlled thrust before pushing that thrust to move you in a direction, utilizing wing principles of your mech to actually start "flying", or continue to have a consistent controlled thrust to remain airborne in Hover mode.

It's two different types of JJ usage with two different means; one gets you to where you want more quickly and in an arc, while the other preps you to zoom across the battlefield, requiring more finesse because you're actually FLYING instead of just using thrust to fire you off in a controlled arc.

[RifleMech]

Well just to be clear, it's taking off that requires more finesse. And the answer is pretty simple; With Jumping it's purely to lift you into the air in an arc to land elsewhere; it still requires control, but it's more simple of a concept than Taking Off. Taking off requires stablized and controlled thrust before pushing that thrust to move you in a direction, utilizing wing principles of your mech to actually start "flying", or continue to have a consistent controlled thrust to remain airborne in Hover mode.

It's two different types of JJ usage with two different means; one gets you to where you want more quickly and in an arc, while the other preps you to zoom across the battlefield, requiring more finesse because you're actually FLYING instead of just using thrust to fire you off in a controlled arc.

I'm not seeing it but as long as you're clear it's one or the other it'll hopefully be okay.