Filling in the Syberian AutoMechs (Open Thread)

[HABeas2]

and a thick russian accent..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHVE5j4I0L8

Which I loved to death!

OK, I've got some renaming and a little shifting around to do on versions.  Y'now, you could also split the slower Sounder/VeeMech ones based on the Thunderbolt from faster 60-tonners based on the Wolverine, too.

Nice; glad if you can work with it!

So, these are a bit more burly than the Ravage drones??

Yeah. Ravage is typically a pretty svelte unit. I considered making his AutoMech drone version a Fenrir or a Shedu body, but the Rottie had the most feline-like grace to its shape.

Gotcha covered:  Syberian Spybird recon drone.  At 3 tons on the dot, fits perfectly into one of the VeeMech/Sounder cargo holds.

I like, but was this built as a VTOL or a jet? I'm not sure a jet can run by solar power and batteries.

Shakes?  Well, that's worrisome.

Yeah. Not sure what causes them; it seems mostly to come from having coffee, but not enough food, and then getting intensely active in something, which could be anything from shoveling snow or laying flooring, or typing a lengthy section of material, or just plain talking. The usual solution is to get an infusion of sugar, which I really don't like to do too much, as I prefer NOT to tempt diabetes any more than I already have....

Welcome to the California Nebula says "No Primitive Components", and implies lesser factions use Industrial components instead, but YMMV. :)

Yeah, as the AutoMechs branch off from Star League-era tech and so many are built to be convertible, they've progressed past Primitive tech, but they may use Industrial gear instead.

 

Very cool. I can see wanting to be closer to BT than TF. So I can understand no combiners and planet-size transformers. I don't know about trimodal and triple changers being excluded though. I'm also not sure why quads and tripods are excluded from so many categories.

Trimodal units in BT are hybrid modes, a-la AirMechs, which are more like stopping half-way through the normal transformation process, while the actual Triple-Changers are supposed to be three very different forms. The issue THERE is that some parts would thus have two or more slots necessary to support two alt modes--such as jets AND tracks in Blitzwing's legs--if we wanted to be faithful to the franchises. This creates too many complications for me, and so I left the Triple-Changer functionality out, and instead decided that if we really wanted to represent all forms of a multi-changer, we could just make two AutoMechs with similar 'Mech forms (such as a Seeker-based "Blitz Seeker," and a Tankus-based "Blitzer Tankus" to cover Blitzwing). I'm pretty sure I head some good reasons for leaving out Tripods and Quads from some forms, likely based on where I put the Conversion gear slots, and how to deal with extraneous limbs.

We have Sky Lynx for a Quad AeroMech. I've also seen a custom tripod aerialbot that converted into a Focke-Wulf Triebflügel. I wish I could find the picture.  :-[ It was cool though. All the aerialbots were german fighters.

Eww. Sky Lynx! Honestly, I see him as a DropShip anyway, and thus non-transformable. (And, if you go with my recommendation above for triple-changers, this is one way to deal with Astrotrain's shuttle alt mode as well.)

Very cool! Thanks!  :thumbsup: If IronWind Metals ever made minis of more civilian style vehicles would your selections change any? Like the Saturnus for Mirage
https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Saturnus_V and the Simca for Rachet and Ironhide  https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Simca ?

Probably.

Makes sense. A lot of the Seekers are just variants of each other.

So much so, that there's basically no point even giving them different minis at all, unlike how I handled two very cosmetically different Tankuses.

Sounds cool. I just figured Soundwave would be an Enplacement mech but a wheeled vehicle is cool.

In many subsequent lines, Soundwave got basically an SUV/Armored Van alt mode, and continues to do so today. this gives him agency and I tend to side with that when it comes to making AutoMechs that one might see on the battlefield.

Their not having an internal structure is a bit of a problem.  :( But I love being able to use the Cassettes.

At their size, their internal structure is basically the core robotics, which can't sustain tactical-scale damage without basically coming apart, much like how the meaty human operators of said battlesuits do.

Primus Optimal overweight for a wheeled automech?

He's always the big guy who can go toe to toe with MechaTankus; 100 tons or bust! :)

Would Swooper be better as an AirMech and not a true FighterMech?

I *did* consider it, but ultimately went with a fighter mode because his landing legs were stubby enough to be gear, rather than full legs. At least on the classic toy I have....

Would Quad Drones like Slugfest, Zaur, and Ramhorn  be heavier drone types than Ravage?
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Zaur_(G1)
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Ramhorn_(G1)

Probably. Those might fit the Shedu/Fenrir types, but they weren't in Season 1, so I didn't get to them.

Would biped Drones like Overkill and Dial be heavier than Rumble and Frenzy Drones?https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Overkill_(G1)
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Dile

Nah. I mean, I already maxed out Rumble and Frenzy's weights, so Overkill and Dile would just be bottom heavy versions of them, or built as quads.

- Herb

[Giovanni Blasini]

and a thick russian accent..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHVE5j4I0L8

What the hell did I just watch? ???

I like, but was this built as a VTOL or a jet? I'm not sure a jet can run by solar power and batteries.

I think it was a fixed-wing with VSTOL, rather than a VTOL.  I'll need to double-check.  I know the fluff implied a setup similar to a Cobra VTOL or Karnov, but I'm not finding the original file in MegaMekLab right now.

Yeah. Not sure what causes them; it seems mostly to come from having coffee, but not enough food, and then getting intensely active in something, which could be anything from shoveling snow or laying flooring, or typing a lengthy section of material, or just plain talking. The usual solution is to get an infusion of sugar, which I really don't like to do too much, as I prefer NOT to tempt diabetes any more than I already have....

You need to get that checked out.  At minimum, pick up a cheap heart/blood oxygen monitor (the type that goes over your finger) off Amazon or something and, next time this happens, check your pulse and blood oxygen level.

I have a suspicion that either your pulse rate is spiking, which happened to my mother, who's diabetic, in similar circumstances, and forced her to give up caffeine recently.  It's also similar, though, to an issue I had recently, though, where my blood oxygen level would drop low.  Having that information during an episode provides two additional data points you can provide a doctor.  And, if you can, you're going to want to see a doctor - this is the kind of problem you want to get checked out before it snowballs.

Trimodal units in BT are hybrid modes, a-la AirMechs, which are more like stopping half-way through the normal transformation process, while the actual Triple-Changers are supposed to be three very different forms. The issue THERE is that some parts would thus have two or more slots necessary to support two alt modes--such as jets AND tracks in Blitzwing's legs--if we wanted to be faithful to the franchises. This creates too many complications for me, and so I left the Triple-Changer functionality out, and instead decided that if we really wanted to represent all forms of a multi-changer, we could just make two AutoMechs with similar 'Mech forms (such as a Seeker-based "Blitz Seeker," and a Tankus-based "Blitzer Tankus" to cover Blitzwing). I'm pretty sure I head some good reasons for leaving out Tripods and Quads from some forms, likely based on where I put the Conversion gear slots, and how to deal with extraneous limbs.

Eww. Sky Lynx! Honestly, I see him as a DropShip anyway, and thus non-transformable. (And, if you go with my recommendation above for triple-changers, this is one way to deal with Astrotrain's shuttle alt mode as well.)

The idea of triple-changers give me headaches.

Though the SDF-1...  >:D

[glitterboy2098]

What the hell did I just watch? ???

Beast wars was a bit of a trip, even ignoring the early CGI. (Was done by the same studio as reboot, iirc.. so pretty cutting edge for the time and budget) weird mysteries, silly plots, continuity snarls, time travel, (new)Megatron being an almost Shakespearean ham..
Personally I have fond memories of it, was the first transformers I got to actually catch on TV regularly. (Reruns of the older stuff rarely aired)

Fun bit, pretty much the entire show has been made available on YouTube.

[RifleMech]

Yeah. Not sure what causes them; it seems mostly to come from having coffee, but not enough food, and then getting intensely active in something, which could be anything from shoveling snow or laying flooring, or typing a lengthy section of material, or just plain talking. The usual solution is to get an infusion of sugar, which I really don't like to do too much, as I prefer NOT to tempt diabetes any more than I already have....

Not good. Please be careful.

Welcome to the California Nebula says "No Primitive Components", and implies lesser factions use Industrial components instead, but YMMV. :)

Yeah, as the AutoMechs branch off from Star League-era tech and so many are built to be convertible, they've progressed past Primitive tech, but they may use Industrial gear instead.

 :-[ I forgot about that. I just figure some of the oldest would be primitive but I guess Industrial would work just as well.
 

Trimodal units in BT are hybrid modes, a-la AirMechs, which are more like stopping half-way through the normal transformation process, while the actual Triple-Changers are supposed to be three very different forms. The issue THERE is that some parts would thus have two or more slots necessary to support two alt modes--such as jets AND tracks in Blitzwing's legs--if we wanted to be faithful to the franchises. This creates too many complications for me, and so I left the Triple-Changer functionality out, and instead decided that if we really wanted to represent all forms of a multi-changer, we could just make two AutoMechs with similar 'Mech forms (such as a Seeker-based "Blitz Seeker," and a Tankus-based "Blitzer Tankus" to cover Blitzwing). I'm pretty sure I head some good reasons for leaving out Tripods and Quads from some forms, likely based on where I put the Conversion gear slots, and how to deal with extraneous limbs.

In the case of Swoop I just wonder if AirMech to Mech would be better as they don't seem to fly as fast as Seekers.

Figuring out where to put all the crits is a problem. I have done the similar mech different vehicle thing but I still wonder if triple changers would be possible.

FighterMechs don't have crits for conversion equipment so that'd free up a slot in each leg for jump jets. The other taken by tracks. So Blitzer could be possible. Broadside would have floats in each side torso for his ship mode and still have room in his legs for jump jets. AutoMechs like Springs and Sandstorm though could just need rotors as Wheeled and VTOL Mechs already have conversion equipment slots. So they could would also have wheel slots and Rotor slots. I think it'd work. I'm usually trying to find a way to get motive systems either all in the legs or the arms to better fit their TF art/toys.

Eww. Sky Lynx! Honestly, I see him as a DropShip anyway, and thus non-transformable. (And, if you go with my recommendation above for triple-changers, this is one way to deal with Astrotrain's shuttle alt mode as well.)

Yeah, not my favorite either. I was thinking more this guy. I forgot he had a biped mode too. Still, if only bimodal Automechs are possible, there's a Seeker that converts to a QuadMech.

https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Dropshot_(Armada)
I have done that for Astrotrain. Mostly though I've worked on his train form. The shuttle part is just a shuttle looking fighter. 

Probably.

So much so, that there's basically no point even giving them different minis at all, unlike how I handled two very cosmetically different Tankuses.

Cool.

Yeah. It kind of make it easier as each variant is a different Seeker. Trying to keep the weight the same with different weapons is trickier. Especially since a lot of weapons don't have a BT version.

In many subsequent lines, Soundwave got basically an SUV/Armored Van alt mode, and continues to do so today. this gives him agency and I tend to side with that when it comes to making AutoMechs that one might see on the battlefield.

That's cool. Plus it eliminates changing size as it converts.  ;D

At their size, their internal structure is basically the core robotics, which can't sustain tactical-scale damage without basically coming apart, much like how the meaty human operators of said battlesuits do.

I figured a robotic structure for BA would get the same 1 point the fleshy gets.

He's always the big guy who can go toe to toe with MechaTankus; 100 tons or bust! :)

 :thumbsup:

I *did* consider it, but ultimately went with a fighter mode because his landing legs were stubby enough to be gear, rather than full legs. At least on the classic toy I have....

Makes sense. How about Cutthroat and Divebomb? https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Cutthroat_(G1)
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Divebomb_(G1)

Probably. Those might fit the Shedu/Fenrir types, but they weren't in Season 1, so I didn't get to them.

That's cool.

Nah. I mean, I already maxed out Rumble and Frenzy's weights, so Overkill and Dile would just be bottom heavy versions of them, or built as quads.

- Herb

That's cool.

Any idea about a Beetle with a trailer that turns into jump jets and a partial wing?
https://tfwiki.net/mediawiki/images2/f/f9/Bumblebeeclassicstoy.jpg

[Giovanni Blasini]

OK, after the most recent discussion, here's one take on the Jack class Wheeled AutoMech.  Built as a standard 'Mech in MegaMekLab, with the 7.5 tons of the conversion equipment left unallocated.  Quirks are based on the Shadow Hawk.

Code: [Select]

Jack Class Wheeled AutoMech

Mass: 50 tons
Chassis: Earthwerks SHD
Power Plant: Magna 250
Cruising Speed: 54 kph
Maximum Speed: 86.4 kph
Jump Jets: None
     Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Maximilian 43
Armament:
     1 Medium Laser
     1 LRM 5
     1 ER Large Laser
Manufacturer: Syberian Industrial Output
     Primary Factory: Syberia
Communication System: O/P 300 COMSET
Targeting & Tracking System: O/P 2000A
Introduction Year: 2750
Tech Rating/Availability: E/E-F(F*)-D-D
Cost: 4,149,500 C-bills

Type: Jack Class Wheeled AutoMech
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Tonnage: 50
Battle Value: 1,113

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                    5
Engine                        250 Fusion           12.5
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 0
Double Heat Sink              10 [20]                 0
Gyro                                                  3
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  152                   9.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            16        23   
     Center Torso (rear)               8     
     R/L Torso               12        18   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  6     
     R/L Arm                 8         16   
     R/L Leg                 12        16   


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo              Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
LRM 5 Ammo (24)          RT        1        -       1.0   
LRM 5                    RT        1        2       2.0   
CASE                     RT        1        -       0.5   
ER Large Laser           LT        2        12      5.0   
Medium Laser             RA        1        3       1.0   

Quirks: Battle Fists, Rugged (1 Point), Ubiquitous (Syberia)



[Giovanni Blasini]

Next up is the Streaker class Wheeled AutoMech.  This one's a solid 55 tons, and uses quirks based on the Griffin I based it on.  I waffled a bit on weaponry, and ended up settling on the ERPPC over the standard PPC or an ERLL, since the Tankus set the standard for ERPPCs being available.

Code: [Select]

Streaker Class Wheeled AutoMech

Mass: 55 tons
Chassis: Earthwerks GRF
Power Plant: CoreTek 275
Cruising Speed: 54 kph
Maximum Speed: 86.4 kph
Jump Jets: None
     Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Starshield A
Armament:
     1 ER PPC
     1 LRM 5
Manufacturer: Syberian Industrial Output
     Primary Factory: Syberia
Communication System: Neil 6000
Targeting & Tracking System: Octagon Tartrac System C
Introduction Year: 2750
Tech Rating/Availability: E/E-F(F*)-D-D
Cost: 4,687,407 C-bills

Type: Streaker Class
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Tonnage: 55
Battle Value: 1,140

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                  5.5
Engine                        275 Fusion           15.5
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 0
Double Heat Sink              10 [20]                 0
Gyro                                                  3
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  144                     9

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            18        18   
     Center Torso (rear)               7     
     R/L Torso               13        18   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  6     
     R/L Arm                 9         14   
     R/L Leg                 13        17   


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo              Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
LRM 5 Ammo (24)          RT        1        -       1.0   
LRM 5                    RT        1        2       2.0   
CASE                     RT        1        -       0.5   
ER PPC                   RA        3        15      7.0   

Quirks:  Battle Fists, Rugged (1 Point), Ubiquitous (Syberia), Jettison-Capable Weapon (ER PPC)



[Giovanni Blasini]

Last up, the Wolverine-based Hounder class Wheeled AutoMech.  Like the Seeker/VeeMech, this one's also 60 tons but, to differentiate between the two, the Hounder is a 5/8 base movement AutoMech, like the Wolverine it's based on, and akin to heavy cavalry 'Mechs like the Dragon or Quickdraw.  Weaponry's more close to the WVR-6M, with an ERLL, head-mounted ML, and an SRM-6 on the shoulder.

Code: [Select]

Hounder Class Wheeled AutoMech

Mass: 60 tons
Chassis: Crucis-AM
Power Plant: Vlar 300
Cruising Speed: 54 kph
Maximum Speed: 86.4 kph
Jump Jets: None
     Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Maximillian 60
Armament:
     1 Medium Laser
     1 SRM 6
     1 ER Large Laser
Manufacturer: Syberian Industrial Output
     Primary Factory: Syberia
Communication System: Garret T11-b
Targeting & Tracking System: Sync Tracker(39-42071)
Introduction Year: 2750
Tech Rating/Availability: E/E-F(F*)-D-D
Cost: 5,176,960 C-bills

Type: Hounder Class
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Tonnage: 60
Battle Value: 1,185

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                    6
Engine                        300 Fusion             19
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 0
Double Heat Sink              10 [20]                 0
Gyro                                                  3
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  152                   9.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            20        20   
     Center Torso (rear)               7     
     R/L Torso               14        20   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  6     
     R/L Arm                 10        16   
     R/L Leg                 14        16   


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo              Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
CASE                     LT        1        -       0.5   
SRM 6                    LT        2        4       3.0   
SRM 6 Ammo (15)          LT        1        -       1.0   
Medium Laser             HD        1        3       1.0   
ER Large Laser           RA        2        12      5.0   



[HABeas2]

You need to get that checked out.  At minimum, pick up a cheap heart/blood oxygen monitor (the type that goes over your finger) off Amazon or something and, next time this happens, check your pulse and blood oxygen level.

I have a suspicion that either your pulse rate is spiking, which happened to my mother, who's diabetic, in similar circumstances, and forced her to give up caffeine recently.  It's also similar, though, to an issue I had recently, though, where my blood oxygen level would drop low.  Having that information during an episode provides two additional data points you can provide a doctor.  And, if you can, you're going to want to see a doctor - this is the kind of problem you want to get checked out before it snowballs.

When my pulse rate spikes, that feels different. I have seen my doctors multiple times over this throughout the years, and my blood is regularly tested as I'm a high risk for diabetes with a family history of it. To date, all my tests have kept coming back normal, and the doctors are at a bit of a loss. My own observations eventually tracked it to my coffee use; no other caffeine sources seem to trigger it, though, and enough less-sugary foods do tend to ward off these effects if I have enough with my coffee. This has been going on for well over a decade by now.

The idea of triple-changers give me headaches.
Though the SDF-1...  >:D

No! Bad! *squirts you in the face with a water bottle* (SDF-1 as an AutoMech would basically be a Caspar; no transformation, but if you wanted to really have fun with the parallels, the carrier arms could be carrier DropShips, instead of an integral part of the ship design, and you could resort to having heavy 'Mechs walk all over the hull to act like all those destroid gun batteries SDF-1 had.)

Not good. Please be careful.

See above. Short form: I'm monitoring it closely, but sometimes, it still happens.

In the case of Swoop I just wonder if AirMech to Mech would be better as they don't seem to fly as fast as Seekers.

Although they do flap wings and often seem slower than the dedicated jets, many of the more detailed depictions of Swoop imply that he's still a jet. He may just have a slower Thrust than the Seekers, is all.

Figuring out where to put all the crits is a problem. I have done the similar mech different vehicle thing but I still wonder if triple changers would be possible.

I simply felt it best not to delve into that, because any rules for them would probably hurt more than help the concept.

FighterMechs don't have crits for conversion equipment so that'd free up a slot in each leg for jump jets. The other taken by tracks. So Blitzer could be possible. Broadside would have floats in each side torso for his ship mode and still have room in his legs for jump jets. AutoMechs like Springs and Sandstorm though could just need rotors as Wheeled and VTOL Mechs already have conversion equipment slots. So they could would also have wheel slots and Rotor slots. I think it'd work. I'm usually trying to find a way to get motive systems either all in the legs or the arms to better fit their TF art/toys.

Well, in NebCal, conversion equipment slots run like this:

Code: [Select]

AutoMech Conversion Equipment Table

Item Number of Critical Slots and Location
Fighter/WiGE AutoMechs
Landing Gear 3 (1 per Torso location)
Avionics 3 (1 Head, 1 per Side Torso)
Fuel 1 per ton of fuel (any location)*
Jump Jets 1 per Jump MP (Leg and Torso locations only)
Improved Jump Jets 2 per 2 Jump MP (Leg and Torso locations only)
Vehicle AutoMechs
Conversion Gear 4 (1 per Arm/Leg)**
Wheels 4 (1 per Arm/Leg of wheel-based AutoMechs only)
Tracks 4 (1 per Arm/Leg of track-based AutoMechs only)
Hover Fans 4 (1 per Arm/Leg of hovercraft AutoMechs only)
Floats 4 (1 per Side Torso/Leg of surface naval AutoMechs only)
UMU 1 per UMU MP (Leg and Torso locations only, submersible AutoMechs only)
VTOL AutoMechs
Conversion Gear 4 (1 per Arm/Leg)**
Rotors 1 per VTOL MP (Leg and Torso locations only)
Bestial AutoMechs
Conversion Gear 2 (1 per Side Torso)
Emplacement AutoMechs
Conversion Gear 4 (1 per Arm/Leg)

*The first free ton of fuel does not require a critical slot, and is considered to be internal to the engine.
**May be reduced to 2 slots (in the legs/rear legs only) if the unit forgoes its turret-rotation ability.

...so your FighterMech does have quite a few conversion equipment slots, with the final count based on how much thrust and fuel you want them to have in flight mode. And with so many being "torso or leg only" slots, you can run out fast. It's not IMPOSSIBLE; it's just prohibitively expensive (I would also be thinking of slapping a triple changer with heavier conversion gear because UNLIKE a standard LAM, the third mode is not just a "semi-conversion" like AirMech mode, but a complete change in motive type. Otherwise, folks would might make ALL their convertibles into triple-changers.)

Yeah, not my favorite either. I was thinking more this guy. I forgot he had a biped mode too. Still, if only bimodal Automechs are possible, there's a Seeker that converts to a QuadMech.

https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Dropshot_(Armada)

Ew! Armada crap! Get away from me with that garbage!

I have done that for Astrotrain. Mostly though I've worked on his train form. The shuttle part is just a shuttle looking fighter.

Tempting, yes, but the number of times they've used Astrotrain to transport other full-sized Transformers around, I feel an AutoMech version of shuttle mode would HAVE to be an aerodyne DropShip not too unlike a modified Leopard.

Yeah. It kind of make it easier as each variant is a different Seeker. Trying to keep the weight the same with different weapons is trickier. Especially since a lot of weapons don't have a BT version.

Sure, if you're trying to be 100% accurate, but again we're looking at BTech tech mimicking TF tech. Starscream's Null Rays should likely be Light PPCs, but most TF guns are just lasers in various flavors, and maybe some missiles.

That's cool. Plus it eliminates changing size as it converts.  ;D

Yerp!

I figured a robotic structure for BA would get the same 1 point the fleshy gets.

Yerp!

Makes sense. How about Cutthroat and Divebomb? https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Cutthroat_(G1)
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Divebomb_(G1)

I stuck to Season 1 of the cartoon series. When you go to fringe units seen only in the comics, you likely won't see much of my concern. BUT! In the event of a longer-legged pteranodon type, an AirMech-looking "Mech mode" may work in lieu of a standard Mech mode.

Any idea about a Beetle with a trailer that turns into jump jets and a partial wing?
https://tfwiki.net/mediawiki/images2/f/f9/Bumblebeeclassicstoy.jpg

Oh, cute! But, nope. Not thinking on that for now.

- Herb

[RifleMech]

When my pulse rate spikes, that feels different. I have seen my doctors multiple times over this throughout the years, and my blood is regularly tested as I'm a high risk for diabetes with a family history of it. To date, all my tests have kept coming back normal, and the doctors are at a bit of a loss. My own observations eventually tracked it to my coffee use; no other caffeine sources seem to trigger it, though, and enough less-sugary foods do tend to ward off these effects if I have enough with my coffee. This has been going on for well over a decade by now.

Does all coffee do that or just that brand?

No! Bad! *squirts you in the face with a water bottle* (SDF-1 as an AutoMech would basically be a Caspar; no transformation, but if you wanted to really have fun with the parallels, the carrier arms could be carrier DropShips, instead of an integral part of the ship design, and you could resort to having heavy 'Mechs walk all over the hull to act like all those destroid gun batteries SDF-1 had.)

 ;D    :thumbsup:

Although they do flap wings and often seem slower than the dedicated jets, many of the more detailed depictions of Swoop imply that he's still a jet. He may just have a slower Thrust than the Seekers, is all.

That's cool.

I simply felt it best not to delve into that, because any rules for them would probably hurt more than help the concept.

Could be.

Well, in NebCal, conversion equipment slots run like this:
(snip)
...so your FighterMech does have quite a few conversion equipment slots, with the final count based on how much thrust and fuel you want them to have in flight mode. And with so many being "torso or leg only" slots, you can run out fast. It's not IMPOSSIBLE; it's just prohibitively expensive (I would also be thinking of slapping a triple changer with heavier conversion gear because UNLIKE a standard LAM, the third mode is not just a "semi-conversion" like AirMech mode, but a complete change in motive type. Otherwise, folks would might make ALL their convertibles into triple-changers.)

Sure FighterMechs have some slots but they don't have any that require crits in the arms and legs like the other AutoMechs. That's were I think there's room for triple changers. I agree it'd be expensive, and space would run out really quick, so there wouldn't be many but I think it could be possible. Making the conversion system heavier makes sense but would the increased weight be based on the bimodal or trimodal conversion system? Or maybe it'd just be better to pay extra for the motive system? UMUs for floats and subs, Rotors for VTOLs, Wheels and Tracks using QuadVee rules.  Hovers would still be an issue but could be based on vehicle's extra 10% for lift systems.

Ew! Armada crap! Get away from me with that garbage!

 ;D  Yeah, Armada wasn't the best but Dropshot was based on an unreleased G1 triple changer toy.
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/File:TFGDropshot.jpg

Tempting, yes, but the number of times they've used Astrotrain to transport other full-sized Transformers around, I feel an AutoMech version of shuttle mode would HAVE to be an aerodyne DropShip not too unlike a modified Leopard.

Since he sized kept changing, why no both?

Sure, if you're trying to be 100% accurate, but again we're looking at BTech tech mimicking TF tech. Starscream's Null Rays should likely be Light PPCs, but most TF guns are just lasers in various flavors, and maybe some missiles.

Not so much as 100% accurate but not quite so limited by BT either. I would have used Centurion Weapon Systems for Starscream's Null Rays but Light PPCs work. It's hard to tell since sometimes they fire single blasts other times they fire bursts and sometimes they have other effects.

 

Yerp!

Yerp!

I stuck to Season 1 of the cartoon series. When you go to fringe units seen only in the comics, you likely won't see much of my concern. BUT! In the event of a longer-legged pteranodon type, an AirMech-looking "Mech mode" may work in lieu of a standard Mech mode.

That's cool.

Oh, cute! But, nope. Not thinking on that for now.

- Herb

 ;D

Would biped BeastMechs with quad animal forms use crawling movement when in animal mode?

Would thunderbolt missile launchers (prototype or production) be among the post Star League equipment Automechs have access to? Or should Narc Launchers with post Star League Ammo be better?

Thanks :)

[Wrangler]

Question:  Would Headmasters / Power Master / Weapon Master fit in this?  Battle Armor (Detachable - Remote) body?

They would solve minor problem investigating Human ruins in smaller spaces.

[HABeas2]

Does all coffee do that or just that brand?

It doesn't seem to be brand-related.

Sure FighterMechs have some slots but they don't have any that require crits in the arms and legs like the other AutoMechs. That's were I think there's room for triple changers. I agree it'd be expensive, and space would run out really quick, so there wouldn't be many but I think it could be possible. Making the conversion system heavier makes sense but would the increased weight be based on the bimodal or trimodal conversion system? Or maybe it'd just be better to pay extra for the motive system? UMUs for floats and subs, Rotors for VTOLs, Wheels and Tracks using QuadVee rules.  Hovers would still be an issue but could be based on vehicle's extra 10% for lift systems.

As the NebCal rules are written now, conversion equipment weighs 5% for bestial conversions, 10% for emplacement conversions, and 15% for all other conversion types. For a triple changer, I would likely say "add 5% if the unit is to have a second non-Mech mode, regardless of the type chosen," which would make a bestial triple-changer double its conversion gear mass, while a two-vehicle triple-changer would need to clear 20% of its mass for conversion gear. The maximum unit weight would be set by the most restrictive alternate mode picked, so a Blitzwing (tank/fighter triple-changer) would be limited to 55 tons. AND the unit would need to allocate the conversion gear crits needed for both modes where they were prescribed, thus forcing the Blitzwing model to need to allocate 1 Landing Gear slot to all three torso locations, an Avionics slot to each side torso and the head, and any jump jets would need to go in the torso slots at 1 per jump MP, because.... the legs would be occupied by 1 Conversion gear and Tracks slot each, filling them up, while the arms would need 1 Conversion Gear and 1 Tracks slot each to retain turret rotation in vehicle mode. Any fuel beyond the first free ton will also need to go into the torsos at 1 slot per ton. That's a MINIMUM of 11 slots if you only put 1 jump jet on the thing. As Blitzwing's main cannon is in the turret, it needs to be put in one arm or the other to have that firing arc and hit location, and at least two more weapons must appear--1 in each side torso--to cover his wing-mounted weapons in fighter mode. The wing guns might be lasers, but the cannon is usually depicted as an actual tank gun, so that's an AC of some type (unless you want to actually mount a Rifle Cannon). Remembering that we have a maximum weight of 55 tons to work with here, and that we lost 11 of that to the ability to triple-change, another 5.5 tons to internal structure, 3 to the control systems, and an indeterminate amount to engine, jump jets, gyros, and armor.... what's left for guns, ammo, and heat sinks that would make this guy effective?

;D  Yeah, Armada wasn't the best but Dropshot was based on an unreleased G1 triple changer toy.
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/File:TFGDropshot.jpg

And what an ugly toy it was! ;)

Since he sized kept changing, why no both?

That would be redundant. I'm liking the idea of a pair of AutoMechs--one a Wheeled convertible that vague resembles a train in vee mode (how often in the cartoons did Astrotrain really use tracks anyway?)--and the other a non-transforming aerodyne Mech transport, whose programming are so entwined with working together that they practically have a conjoined intelligence between them. The Wheeled AutoMech version always travels aboard the DropShip version, so they're always seen together, and they share a color scheme to underscore their shared identity, like a fighter pilot and his plane. In conversation, they even share the same voice, and habitually split the talking between them when communicating with others, so you can't even tell them apart over the radio. Bam! Astrotrain without having to make new rules!

Not so much as 100% accurate but not quite so limited by BT either. I would have used Centurion Weapon Systems for Starscream's Null Rays but Light PPCs work. It's hard to tell since sometimes they fire single blasts other times they fire bursts and sometimes they have other effects.

The dumb thing about the CWS is that it's basically a system that hacks other Mechs via radio, the way Enterprise dismantled Reliant's shields in Star Trek II. It worked best only if a SLDF unit was facing another SLDF unit, otherwise it was far less reliable. And you DON'T want that kind of hackability in robots meant to fight each other, so why build in such a weakness? The CWS was really made for SLDF security against possible theft, and the folks who settled Syberia probably didn't see that as a problem until the machines were already fighting each other without their input.

Would biped BeastMechs with quad animal forms use crawling movement when in animal mode?

Bestial AutoMechs transform between biped and quad movement modes and use whatever's appropriate to their form, but if you're planning to hack it so the machine never acts like it has a biped mode, yeah, your biped will be using crawling rules.

Would thunderbolt missile launchers (prototype or production) be among the post Star League equipment Automechs have access to? Or should Narc Launchers with post Star League Ammo be better?

Narc Launchers would likely be better; T-Bolt missiles didn't come along until the Clan Invasion years, and--unlike the various alternate PPC types we've seen--they had no stated basis in SLDF-era prototypes.

Question:  Would Headmasters / Power Master / Weapon Master fit in this?  Battle Armor (Detachable - Remote) body?

They would solve minor problem investigating Human ruins in smaller spaces.

Ultimately, it's not for me to dictate what happens on your tables, but the notion of the *-Master units was always that they were armored beings meshing with the Cybertronian to achieve their added functionality. Otherwise, they were basically deployer drones like Soundwave's cassettes. I don't think I even put rules for the BA drones in NebCal, but it's an easy enough reach as we've seen, without delving into Machina Domini tech, so I recommended it here for our Rumble/Frenzy expy. I would take the latter approach, rather than the Machina-Domini based *-Master approach. Keeps the meat out of play.

- Herb

[RifleMech]

It doesn't seem to be brand-related.

 :(

As the NebCal rules are written now, conversion equipment weighs 5% for bestial conversions, 10% for emplacement conversions, and 15% for all other conversion types. For a triple changer, I would likely say "add 5% if the unit is to have a second non-Mech mode, regardless of the type chosen," which would make a bestial triple-changer double its conversion gear mass, while a two-vehicle triple-changer would need to clear 20% of its mass for conversion gear. The maximum unit weight would be set by the most restrictive alternate mode picked, so a Blitzwing (tank/fighter triple-changer) would be limited to 55 tons. AND the unit would need to allocate the conversion gear crits needed for both modes where they were prescribed, thus forcing the Blitzwing model to need to allocate 1 Landing Gear slot to all three torso locations, an Avionics slot to each side torso and the head, and any jump jets would need to go in the torso slots at 1 per jump MP, because.... the legs would be occupied by 1 Conversion gear and Tracks slot each, filling them up, while the arms would need 1 Conversion Gear and 1 Tracks slot each to retain turret rotation in vehicle mode. Any fuel beyond the first free ton will also need to go into the torsos at 1 slot per ton. That's a MINIMUM of 11 slots if you only put 1 jump jet on the thing. As Blitzwing's main cannon is in the turret, it needs to be put in one arm or the other to have that firing arc and hit location, and at least two more weapons must appear--1 in each side torso--to cover his wing-mounted weapons in fighter mode. The wing guns might be lasers, but the cannon is usually depicted as an actual tank gun, so that's an AC of some type (unless you want to actually mount a Rifle Cannon). Remembering that we have a maximum weight of 55 tons to work with here, and that we lost 11 of that to the ability to triple-change, another 5.5 tons to internal structure, 3 to the control systems, and an indeterminate amount to engine, jump jets, gyros, and armor.... what's left for guns, ammo, and heat sinks that would make this guy effective?

Sounds cool. A bit more restrictive than I'd go but very cool. I wanna try to make a Blitzwing now.  :D

And what an ugly toy it was! ;)

 ;D

That would be redundant. I'm liking the idea of a pair of AutoMechs--one a Wheeled convertible that vague resembles a train in vee mode (how often in the cartoons did Astrotrain really use tracks anyway?)--and the other a non-transforming aerodyne Mech transport, whose programming are so entwined with working together that they practically have a conjoined intelligence between them. The Wheeled AutoMech version always travels aboard the DropShip version, so they're always seen together, and they share a color scheme to underscore their shared identity, like a fighter pilot and his plane. In conversation, they even share the same voice, and habitually split the talking between them when communicating with others, so you can't even tell them apart over the radio. Bam! Astrotrain without having to make new rules!

Sounds cool. I still like the idea of an Astrotrain FighterMech who can deploy drones and then convert. But a large non converting Astrotrain shuttle that is linked to a converting TrainAutomech is cool too.  :thumbsup: I'm not sure how many time Astrotrain actually traveled on the rails. I know he did but it wasn't a lot. If AutoMechs can have quirks, would giving Astrotrain and others a +1MP to cruising when traveling by rail be reasonable?

The dumb thing about the CWS is that it's basically a system that hacks other Mechs via radio, the way Enterprise dismantled Reliant's shields in Star Trek II. It worked best only if a SLDF unit was facing another SLDF unit, otherwise it was far less reliable. And you DON'T want that kind of hackability in robots meant to fight each other, so why build in such a weakness? The CWS was really made for SLDF security against possible theft, and the folks who settled Syberia probably didn't see that as a problem until the machines were already fighting each other without their input.

Makes sense.

Bestial AutoMechs transform between biped and quad movement modes and use whatever's appropriate to their form, but if you're planning to hack it so the machine never acts like it has a biped mode, yeah, your biped will be using crawling rules.

That's cool. :thumbsup:

Narc Launchers would likely be better; T-Bolt missiles didn't come along until the Clan Invasion years, and--unlike the various alternate PPC types we've seen--they had no stated basis in SLDF-era prototypes.

Makes sense. I did wonder with all those single missile launchers. Narc Launchers and various ammo it is.  :thumbsup:

Ultimately, it's not for me to dictate what happens on your tables, but the notion of the *-Master units was always that they were armored beings meshing with the Cybertronian to achieve their added functionality. Otherwise, they were basically deployer drones like Soundwave's cassettes. I don't think I even put rules for the BA drones in NebCal, but it's an easy enough reach as we've seen, without delving into Machina Domini tech, so I recommended it here for our Rumble/Frenzy expy. I would take the latter approach, rather than the Machina-Domini based *-Master approach. Keeps the meat out of play.

- Herb

I don't remember any BA AutoMechs. I'm not sure HeadMasters and EngineMasters would work in BT as they're combiners. TargetMasters though are just drones that turn into guns, so who could use them would be limited to the AutoMech's lifting ability. The same would be for other GunMechs and EquipmentMechs too. A Megatron GunMech couldn't be more than 5.5 tons so a Seeker could pick him up. 2.5 tons, if he's only used with one hand. I'm not sure how they'd work in Drone Mode though. Would the Drone still have access to all it's Gun Mode weapons?

[RifleMech]

I think I've got a Blitzwing Triple Changer. I need to assign armor values but I'll do that later. I am wondering about the turret though. Why is it in the arm?

[Luciora]

Most transformers seem to be right handed. 

I think I've got a Blitzwing Triple Changer. I need to assign armor values but I'll do that later. I am wondering about the turret though. Why is it in the arm?

[HABeas2]

I think I've got a Blitzwing Triple Changer. I need to assign armor values but I'll do that later. I am wondering about the turret though. Why is it in the arm?

Because that's where the transforming table puts it. The logic was that the arms represent the broadest firing arc in Mech and vehicle modes, while the torsos represent most of the tank's main hull. The head also joins the turret in vehicle mode, but our theoretical Triple-changer has no slots free in that location at all due to the fighter mode requirements.

Sounds cool. I still like the idea of an Astrotrain FighterMech who can deploy drones and then convert. But a large non converting Astrotrain shuttle that is linked to a converting TrainAutomech is cool too.  :thumbsup: I'm not sure how many time Astrotrain actually traveled on the rails. I know he did but it wasn't a lot. If AutoMechs can have quirks, would giving Astrotrain and others a +1MP to cruising when traveling by rail be reasonable?

Sure! And since wheeled AutoMechs automatically gain +1 MP in vehicle mode already, that means AutoTrain gains +2 Cruise on tracks, or +1 Cruise off tracks when in vehicle mode, which can really offset some MP loss for towing anything like an actual train might.

I don't remember any BA AutoMechs. I'm not sure HeadMasters and EngineMasters would work in BT as they're combiners. TargetMasters though are just drones that turn into guns, so who could use them would be limited to the AutoMech's lifting ability. The same would be for other GunMechs and EquipmentMechs too. A Megatron GunMech couldn't be more than 5.5 tons so a Seeker could pick him up. 2.5 tons, if he's only used with one hand. I'm not sure how they'd work in Drone Mode though. Would the Drone still have access to all it's Gun Mode weapons?

There weren't any in NebCal. I steered clear of BA-scale drones, and the use of Mech rules limited your max sizes to 10 tons if you wanted something transformable (even then, I'm not sure you COULD get something that transformed effectively at that scale). But if I WERE to devise drone rules for BA, the discussion above is likely (*coughdefinitelycough*) how I'd do (*coughhavedonecough*) it. they just can't transform. And I always tended to see the various *-masters as combiners, even if they technically were, but more of an armored pilot/passenger who was electronically bonded to their chosen 'Mech. In other words, the *-Masters were just another version of the cassette gimmick. Taking THAT approach, our BA drones would just need cargo space set aside for them; the AutoMech would operate itself as normal. In BT terms, they'd just work like mechanized battle armor.

And I won't touch gun-mode transformers outside of making them emplacement batteries. MechaTankus and Shocker Tankus are tanks, Cat damn it! They don't need no Seeker to tell them where to shoot!

- Herb
 

[RifleMech]

Because that's where the transforming table puts it. The logic was that the arms represent the broadest firing arc in Mech and vehicle modes, while the torsos represent most of the tank's main hull. The head also joins the turret in vehicle mode, but our theoretical Triple-changer has no slots free in that location at all due to the fighter mode requirements.

That's cool. I just wondered how an arm would act as a turret when it contains a wheel or other motive system. Are regular Mech turrets available?
 

Sure! And since wheeled AutoMechs automatically gain +1 MP in vehicle mode already, that means AutoTrain gains +2 Cruise on tracks, or +1 Cruise off tracks when in vehicle mode, which can really offset some MP loss for towing anything like an actual train might.

Cool!  :thumbsup:

There weren't any in NebCal. I steered clear of BA-scale drones, and the use of Mech rules limited your max sizes to 10 tons if you wanted something transformable (even then, I'm not sure you COULD get something that transformed effectively at that scale). But if I WERE to devise drone rules for BA, the discussion above is likely (*coughdefinitelycough*) how I'd do (*coughhavedonecough*) it. they just can't transform. And I always tended to see the various *-masters as combiners, even if they technically were, but more of an armored pilot/passenger who was electronically bonded to their chosen 'Mech. In other words, the *-Masters were just another version of the cassette gimmick. Taking THAT approach, our BA drones would just need cargo space set aside for them; the AutoMech would operate itself as normal. In BT terms, they'd just work like mechanized battle armor.

That's cool. After thinking about it I suppose a Gestalt Drone and Interface Cockpit might work as a head but it adds more complication that I'd care to go.

And I won't touch gun-mode transformers outside of making them emplacement batteries. MechaTankus and Shocker Tankus are tanks, Cat damn it! They don't need no Seeker to tell them where to shoot!

- Herb

 ;D  Emplacement batteries works for me.

Blitzwing                                        Tons Internal Structure                         5.5 Conversion Equipment (Triple mode)                             Fighter/Tracked/Mech  11 Engine                             110              3.5      Walking/Cruising           2         Running/Flanking           3         Sprinting/Overdrive   4         Safe Thrust                   4         Max Thrust                   6         Over Thrust                   8    Heat Sinks                          10    Gyro                                                2 Cockpit                        Drone             3 Fuel                                (80)       Damage Threshold          18    Armor                    112               7                                   IS     AV Head                           3      7 Center Torso                18    18/7 Right/Left Torso           13    14/6 Right/Left Arm              9     8 Right/Left Leg              13    12 Weapons and Equipment       Medium Rifle Cannon            2RA            5 Ammo (18)                    2RA            2 Small Vibrosword            1LA            3 Medium Laser                    1RA            1 iNarc Missile Launcher    3LT            4 iNarc Missile Launcher    3RT            4 Ammo (8)                            2CT            2 Improved Jump Jet         2LT,2RT        2 Landing Gear               1CT,1RT,1LT Avionics                       1H,1RT,1LT Conversion Gear       1RA.1LA,1RL,1LL Tracks                      1RA.1LA,1RL,1LL

[Giovanni Blasini]

Why the medium rifle cannon?  That seems...highly obsolete.  Is it something specific to the Transformer it's based on?  (I don't actually know which one that is).

Also, anyone have thoughts on the Jack (SHD) , Streamers (GRF) or Hounder (WVR) wheeled AutoMechs?

[glitterboy2098]

Blitzwing (G1)
at a guess the rifle cannon was to give him a tank gun in his tank mode.
given they are often shown as energy weapons, you could probably get away with an ER laser.. and given their general accuracy in the show you could probably use a mechmortar.  :P

edit: interesting idea, though i doubt you could use it in the story.. the 2005 IDW version of Astrotrain's shuttle mode looks to be the size and shape of a leopard class dropship. if you drop the idea of it having a mech mode*, you could probably have an AI controlled dropship for the DemoCon's.
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/File:SouthOfHeaven-Astrotrain.jpg



*or, as might be more interesting.. the main AI is in the hull of the dropship, but it has a remote operated drone body that is a more conventional mech or VeeMech. which functionally allows it to be both a normal sized robot and a giant space ship without mass changing magic. and since syberian AI isn't as developed as a Caspar system, perhaps it can only really control one or the other at a time, so when the dropship is parked it can interact with the drone body, while the dronebody could be stored when it is operating as a dropship.

[RifleMech]

Why the medium rifle cannon?  That seems...highly obsolete.  Is it something specific to the Transformer it's based on?  (I don't actually know which one that is).

Like Glitterboy said, it was to give him a tank cannon.
https://www.ntfa.net/universe/english/index.php?act=view&char=Blitzwing
I used this site for stats. TFU is good but sometimes has too much to wade through. I wanted to use the Heavy Rifle Cannon but the tonnage just wasn't there.  :( I'd of used Thunderbolt-3s instead of the iNarcs but they didn't have Thunderbolts. I'd also have used the 105mm Tank Cannon Herb mentioned in another thread. It's equivalent to a HRC at only 5 tons. It also has a lot more ammo per ton so that'd free up another ton for armor while being more powerful.  If I were going for a more animated feel, I'd use a PPC.

Also, anyone have thoughts on the Jack (SHD) , Streamers (GRF) or Hounder (WVR) wheeled AutoMechs?

I thought they looked good. I might have gone with Narc launchers but they look good.

[RifleMech]

Blitzwing (G1)
at a guess the rifle cannon was to give him a tank gun in his tank mode.
given they are often shown as energy weapons, you could probably get away with an ER laser.. and given their general accuracy in the show you could probably use a mechmortar.  :P

That was why.  :thumbsup:  Lol. A Mechmortar might work.  ;D

edit: interesting idea, though i doubt you could use it in the story.. the 2005 IDW version of Astrotrain's shuttle mode looks to be the size and shape of a leopard class dropship. if you drop the idea of it having a mech mode*, you could probably have an AI controlled dropship for the DemoCon's.
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/File:SouthOfHeaven-Astrotrain.jpg



*or, as might be more interesting.. the main AI is in the hull of the dropship, but it has a remote operated drone body that is a more conventional mech or VeeMech. which functionally allows it to be both a normal sized robot and a giant space ship without mass changing magic. and since syberian AI isn't as developed as a Caspar system, perhaps it can only really control one or the other at a time, so when the dropship is parked it can interact with the drone body, while the dronebody could be stored when it is operating as a dropship.

Very cool.  :)

Hmm...can AutoMechs mount remote drone equipment and control other drones?  Another question would be if AutoMechs don't have to have a Mech mode, can an AutoMech still convert? Right now, I'm thinking Primus Optimal with a trailer that converts to an emplacement with a remote controlled drone.

edit
I wonder if AutoMechs have any technology from the Star Empire.

[Wrangler]

I think Small craft could be made to come very chunky aerodyne LAM. Skylinks had two brains as well, one does the walking and other flying or even the talking. It was in the show though I think them splitting apart would have to be dropped.

Jetfire would likely not be able to done that way unless aerotransport is a must. he did enlarge like Asrotrain had.

[Luciora]

You know, I've been wondering, do the Drones of Syberia really possess distinctive 'heads' in the sense of thier inspiration?  Especially given how emotive they tend to be in the media, as it seems to some kind of living or at least highly flexible metal. 

Star League tech definitely would not be that advanced for such a detail, and actual faces seem to be an odd affectation for a mass produced product.

Also, mentally trying to figure out how to remove and replace the heads on the Wolverine and Griffin mechs is daunting, to say the least.   ;)

[RifleMech]

I think Small craft could be made to come very chunky aerodyne LAM. Skylinks had two brains as well, one does the walking and other flying or even the talking. It was in the show though I think them splitting apart would have to be dropped.

Jetfire would likely not be able to done that way unless aerotransport is a must. he did enlarge like Asrotrain had.

I suppose the big transport version of Jetfire could be a 200 ton Superheavy LAM with the illegal quirk. Which would kind of work since he crashed a lot.

You know, I've been wondering, do the Drones of Syberia really possess distinctive 'heads' in the sense of thier inspiration?  Especially given how emotive they tend to be in the media, as it seems to some kind of living or at least highly flexible metal. 

Star League tech definitely would not be that advanced for such a detail, and actual faces seem to be an odd affectation for a mass produced product.

Also, mentally trying to figure out how to remove and replace the heads on the Wolverine and Griffin mechs is daunting, to say the least.   ;)

The drones faces vary between robotic and more lifelike. Since living metal isn't a BT thing, I figure the "living" faces are actually projected from a big TV screen where the Mechs cockpit viewport would be. I think a bigger question would be why drones would need distinct male and female forms in Mech Mode. My guess is marketing to female customers before the war started and the fleshlings left.

[Luciora]

I prefer the masked look that Optimus and Wheeljack had, especially for the heads, instead of the full facial features personally.  Well, I'll see what I do when the minis arrive.

[glitterboy2098]

honestly? i'd do all of the above. some have articulated mechanical heads, some just have immoble faceplates (perhaps with eyes or other lights they flash as they speak), and some rely on display screens/holograms. perhaps have it be a sign of the age of the chassis design.. with viewscreens and articulated heads being older types dating back to the time during or not long after the humans were still around, and newer builds using the more simplified head designs due to the need to reduce the amount of resources spent on combatants. (since with no humans around the need for features meant to make interactions more comfortable with humans were limited)

I prefer the masked look that Optimus and Wheeljack had, especially for the heads, instead of the full facial features personally.  Well, I'll see what I do when the minis arrive.

what minis? are you going to convert IWM or kickstarter figures? or did you pick up some of the Trader's Galaxy Bot War figures?
i picked up some of the wizkids deep cuts figures in hopes they could be used, but they're about twice the height of the kickstarter figures, more in scale with the MWDA figures.

[HABeas2]

That's cool. I just wondered how an arm would act as a turret when it contains a wheel or other motive system. Are regular Mech turrets available?

Best not to think too hard about it; but as it happens, Mech turrets DO predate the Star League, so...

That's cool. After thinking about it I suppose a Gestalt Drone and Interface Cockpit might work as a head but it adds more complication that I'd care to go.

Same here. So let's not.

Why the medium rifle cannon?  That seems...highly obsolete.  Is it something specific to the Transformer it's based on?  (I don't actually know which one that is).

G1 Blitzwing, in his original toy specs, was said to shoot explosive shells from his main gun. Of course, those same specs also mentioned the launchers in his wings fire concussion missiles, and he has a sword and a gyrojet gun in robot mode, so... yeah.

Also, anyone have thoughts on the Jack (SHD) , Streamers (GRF) or Hounder (WVR) wheeled AutoMechs?

I like them. I saw that you went for making them as close to their original Mech models in terms of firepower, but of course, you probably know that just about every named AutoMech would likely have a unique weapon loadout of its own (Many Streaker-types--Bluestreak, Prowl, and Smokescreen, for instance--tend to have a pair of small laser-type weapons mounted on either side of their heads, while Jazz's shoulders are clear.) Also, definite credit where it's due: Hounder class is better than the generic "VeeMech" class I called them.

edit: interesting idea, though i doubt you could use it in the story.. the 2005 IDW version of Astrotrain's shuttle mode looks to be the size and shape of a leopard class dropship. if you drop the idea of it having a mech mode*, you could probably have an AI controlled dropship for the DemoCon's.

That image only enforces my feeling that a shuttle-form Astrotrain must be a DropShip.

*or, as might be more interesting.. the main AI is in the hull of the dropship, but it has a remote operated drone body that is a more conventional mech or VeeMech. which functionally allows it to be both a normal sized robot and a giant space ship without mass changing magic. and since syberian AI isn't as developed as a Caspar system, perhaps it can only really control one or the other at a time, so when the dropship is parked it can interact with the drone body, while the dronebody could be stored when it is operating as a dropship.

The only real problem with the remote-operation bit is that they become more vulnerable to ECM. While the AutoMech rules do have them suffering some effects from hostile ECM, the fact that their AIs are on-board gear means they can generally fight through it, while an AutoMech being puppeted from another unit is one ECM field away from becoming a sitting duck. That's why I'd treat an Astrotrain as two AI-controlled units rather than one.

Hmm...can AutoMechs mount remote drone equipment and control other drones?  Another question would be if AutoMechs don't have to have a Mech mode, can an AutoMech still convert? Right now, I'm thinking Primus Optimal with a trailer that converts to an emplacement with a remote controlled drone.

I can see it, but again, I see remote-controlled drones as a vulnerability compared to on-board AIs.

I wonder if AutoMechs have any technology from the Star Empire.

G'nope. They don't even have FTL travel; It probably took a good hundred years for that Grimdark to land on Toreel for the opening fiction of NebCal to happen, so a trek to the much more distant systems of the Star Empire would have been possibly taken them more time than the AutoMechs collectively even existed.

I think Small craft could be made to come very chunky aerodyne LAM. Skylinks had two brains as well, one does the walking and other flying or even the talking. It was in the show though I think them splitting apart would have to be dropped.

Jetfire would likely not be able to done that way unless aerotransport is a must. he did enlarge like Asrotrain had.

Those would have to be your own house rules; the transforming units covered by NebCal capped AeroMechs at 55 tons, like standard LAMs. You could get bigger with a WiGE, but shuttles were right out, and anything bigger than 200 tons was non-transformable. If I were to approach a Skylynx in NebCal rules, he would be the same as Astrotrain's shuttle mode: a non-transforming DropShip. Same goes for Omega Supreme. And the city-formers would be Mobile Structures and/or Emplacements. At a certain point, I had to draw the line on Battletech's side of the line, rather than Transformers'.

You know, I've been wondering, do the Drones of Syberia really possess distinctive 'heads' in the sense of thier inspiration?  Especially given how emotive they tend to be in the media, as it seems to some kind of living or at least highly flexible metal. 

Star League tech definitely would not be that advanced for such a detail, and actual faces seem to be an odd affectation for a mass produced product.

Also, mentally trying to figure out how to remove and replace the heads on the Wolverine and Griffin mechs is daunting, to say the least.   ;)

However you approach them for your table would be fine. For me, the idea of metal faces that flexed like flesh always felt too weird, but over time, the depictions have gotten a little more aesthetically acceptable. The idea of an emotive face that's actually just a plate upon which a digital face is projected from within is a most economical approach with BT tech, I would say. Holographic projections against a faceplate could be as well. Or they just get a static facial shape, with sensor modules in the cockpit/eyes area, that never emotes beyond maybe some lighting tricks around the eyes and the tone of their auditory speech. This being a BT universe mocking the TF setting, of course, using the original Mech's head design and just painting the character face on it is just as acceptable.

The notion that the AutoMechs are customizing their personas based on their randomized personality programs and capabilities is almost a given; these are machines that think they are alive, and many will opt to express it somehow.

I suppose the big transport version of Jetfire could be a 200 ton Superheavy LAM with the illegal quirk. Which would kind of work since he crashed a lot.

Heheheh. Cute!

The drones faces vary between robotic and more lifelike. Since living metal isn't a BT thing, I figure the "living" faces are actually projected from a big TV screen where the Mechs cockpit viewport would be. I think a bigger question would be why drones would need distinct male and female forms in Mech Mode. My guess is marketing to female customers before the war started and the fleshlings left.

Sure, if you wanted to root it in human origins. That could work. (In at least one non-BT story I've written, the use of a digitally projected face on a robot shell was pretty much how a character gave his machine its personality. Granted, they did it in Robocop 2, but it makes perfect sense as a shortcut toward putting an expressive "human" face on a clunky mecha body.)

honestly? i'd do all of the above. some have articulated mechanical heads, some just have immoble faceplates (perhaps with eyes or other lights they flash as they speak), and some rely on display screens/holograms. perhaps have it be a sign of the age of the chassis design.. with viewscreens and articulated heads being older types dating back to the time during or not long after the humans were still around, and newer builds using the more simplified head designs due to the need to reduce the amount of resources spent on combatants. (since with no humans around the need for features meant to make interactions more comfortable with humans were limited)

There ya go! Sky's the limit!

- Herb

[glitterboy2098]

(based on what was my first real exposure to Transformers media, their addition to the netflix war for cybertron series giving the idea of them co-existing with the G1 types, and the fact that they're getting an origin film for the live action series this year..)

The beastmechs of Axilum
Located on Syberia's southern hemisphere, the bio-dome preserve of Axilum is a massive canyon similar to the Valles Marineris of Mars, which the creators domed over and converted into a nature preserve recreating Syberia's pre-colonization atmosphere and preserving a portion of the worlds otherwise extinct ecosystem. managing this gigantic zoo and defending its infrastructure from the warring factions of syberia are an entire faction of bestial automechs, the Axilun Management and Logistics force, or AxiMaLs. With alternate forms designed to allow them to travel within the nature preserve without unduely disrupting the massive and dangerous creatures within, AxiMaL automechs include many cosmetic features giving their bestial forms a more organic look, giving the impression massive terran and alien animals. however the emphasis the creators gave to the AxiMaL automechs limited the size and combat power, leaving them more vulnerable in warfare with the other factions of the planet, and their organic appearance is considered unsettling by most other automechs.




An ultra light recon unit, the Rattus class AxiMaL automech is a common sight both within the Axilum bio-dome and on the borders of its territory, using its deployable sensors to help observe the ecosystem within the done and watch for enemies or dangers that would threaten the integrity of the bio-dome. designed to operate more by stealth and concealment than in combat, the unit is fitted with an ECM system and limited firepower and mobility. Rattus automechs typically are given cosmetic features resembling small mammals, frequently various forms of rodents.

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Rattus Bestial Automech

Mass: 15 tons
Chassis: Standard Biped
Power Plant: 75 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 54 kph
Maximum Speed: 86.4 kph
Jump Jets: None
     Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Standard
Armament:
     1 Medium Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3145
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-E
Cost: 1,183,810 C-bills

Type: Rattus
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Tonnage: 15
Battle Value: 379

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                  1.5
Engine                        75 Fusion               2
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sink                     10                      0
Gyro                                                  1
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  48                      3

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         5     
     Center Torso            5         7     
     Center Torso (rear)               2     
     R/L Torso               4        4/6   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  2     
     R/L Arm                 2         4     
     R/L Leg                 3         6     


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo                   Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Heat Sink                     CT        1        -       1.0   
Cargo                         RT        1        -       0.5   
ECM Suite                     RT        2        -       1.5   
2 Heat Sinks                  RT        2        -       2.0   
Cargo                         LT        1        -       0.5   
Remote Sensors/Dispenser      LT        1        -       0.5   
4 Heat Sinks                  LT        4        -       4.0   
Medium Laser                  RA        1        3       1.0   



the Cynofelis is the AxiMaL scout and Fast response class chassis, typically given cosmetic features similar to that of Cheetahs, leopards, and Puma's. designed around high speed, the Cynofelis has limited armor and firepower. They can be found frequently responding to incursions in the borders around Axilum, to help guide heavier and slower defenders following behind them.

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Cynofelis Beastial Automech

Mass: 20 tons
Chassis: Standard Biped
Power Plant: 180 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 97.2 kph
Maximum Speed: 194.4 kph
Jump Jets: None
     Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Standard
Armament:
     1 Medium Pulse Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3150
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-D
Cost: 3,691,440 C-bills

Type: Cynofelis
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Tonnage: 20
Battle Value: 364

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                    2
Engine                        180 Fusion              7
Walking MP: 9
Running MP: 14(18)
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sink                     10                      0
Gyro                                                  2
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  24                    1.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         4     
     Center Torso            6         3     
     Center Torso (rear)               1     
     R/L Torso               5         3     
     R/L Torso (rear)                  1     
     R/L Arm                 3         2     
     R/L Leg                 4         2     


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo              Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Supercharger             CT        1        -       1.0   
Cargo                    RT        1        -       0.5   
2 Heat Sinks             RT        2        -       2.0   
Cargo                    LT        1        -       0.5   
Heat Sink                LT        1        -       1.0   
Medium Pulse Laser       RA        1        4       2.0   





The Panthera class Automech is the AxiMaL faction's standard trooper, with a mix of speed and firepower. This class is typically given cosmetics replicating Tigers, lions, and Panthers, albeit often including fur and skin colors never seen in nature.

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Panthera Beastial Automech

Mass: 30 tons
Chassis: Standard Biped
Power Plant: 180 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 64.8 kph
Maximum Speed: 97.2 kph
Jump Jets: None
     Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Standard
Armament:
     1 ER Large Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3150
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-E
Cost: 2,251,340 C-bills

Type: Panthera
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Experimental)
Tonnage: 30
Battle Value: 588

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                    3
Engine                        180 Fusion              7
Walking MP: 6
Running MP: 9
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sink                     10                      0
Gyro                                                  2
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  53                    3.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         6     
     Center Torso            10        7     
     Center Torso (rear)               2     
     R/L Torso               7         8     
     R/L Torso (rear)                  1     
     R/L Arm                 5         4     
     R/L Leg                 7         6     


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo              Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Cargo                    RT        1        -       0.5   
Heat Sink                RT        1        -       1.0   
Chain Whip               LA        2        -       3.0   
Cargo                    LT        1        -       1.0   
2 Heat Sinks             LT        2        -       2.0   
ER Large Laser           RA        2        12      5.0   



Typically crafted to resemble primates, the Silverback class automech is a support design, slow but well armored and equipped with long range weaponry. The class often finds itself filling the role of unit leaders, believed to be the result of their use of a variant of the core AI programming seed as the Leader class VeeMech. Equipped with a pair of mechmortars for supporting fire, and a quartet of Small lasers for up close defense, a major notable feature is the improved jump jets, a rarity for non-avian AxiMaL automechs. these jets allow the otherwise slow Silverback to keep pace with its companions. A notable variant seen often sacrifices the small lasers for a 2 ton sword, giving the design greater melee capability.

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Silverback Beastial Automech

Mass: 40 tons
Chassis: Standard Biped
Power Plant: 120 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 32.4 kph
Maximum Speed: 54 kph
Jump Jets: Improved
     Jump Capacity: 150 meters
Armor: Standard
Armament:
     4 Small Laser
     2 'Mech Mortar 2
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3150
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-E
Cost: 2,916,760 C-bills

Type: Silverback
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Tonnage: 40
Battle Value: 579

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                    4
Engine                        120 Fusion              4
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 5
Heat Sink                     10                      0
Gyro                                                  2
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  96                      6

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         8     
     Center Torso            12        14   
     Center Torso (rear)               4     
     R/L Torso               10        12   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  3     
     R/L Arm                 6         8     
     R/L Leg                 10        12   


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo                           Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Improved Jump Jet                     CT        2        -       1.0   
Airburst Mortar 2 Ammo (12)           RT        1        -       1.0   
'Mech Mortar 2                        RT        2        2       5.0   
2 Improved Jump Jets                  RT        4        -       2.0   
Cargo                                 RT        1        -       1.0   
2 Heat Sinks                          RT        2        -       2.0   
2 Small Lasers                        LA        2        1       1.0   
Heat Sink                             LA        1        -       1.0   
Shaped Charge Mortar 2 Ammo (12)      LT        1        -       1.0   
'Mech Mortar 2                        LT        2        2       5.0   
2 Improved Jump Jets                  LT        4        -       2.0   
Cargo                                 LT        1        -       1.0   
2 Heat Sinks                          LT        2        -       2.0   
2 Small Lasers                        RA        2        1       1.0   
Heat Sink                             RA        1        -       1.0   



disguised as large quadrapeds such as rhinos, elephants, and native reptilians, the Rhinokeros is a heavy combat support unit, mixing heavy armor with firepower and a potent comm array. slow but stead, the Rhinokeros anchors AxiMaL battle groups, providing covering fire and coordinating the defense from the backlines.

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Rhinokeros Bestial Automech

Mass: 60 tons
Chassis: Standard Biped
Power Plant: 240 Fusion
Cruising Speed: 43.2 kph
Maximum Speed: 64.8 kph
Jump Jets: None
     Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Standard
Armament:
     2 Ultra AC/5
Manufacturer: Unknown
     Primary Factory: Unknown
Communication System: Unknown
Targeting & Tracking System: Unknown
Introduction Year: 3145
Tech Rating/Availability: E/X-X-X-D
Cost: 4,791,360 C-bills

Type: Rhinokeros
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Tonnage: 60
Battle Value: 883

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                    6
Engine                        240 Fusion           11.5
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sink                     10                      0
Gyro                                                  3
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  120                   7.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            20        18   
     Center Torso (rear)               5     
     R/L Torso               14        13   
     R/L Torso (rear)                  4     
     R/L Arm                 10        11   
     R/L Leg                 14        16   


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo                   Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Cargo                         RT        2        -       1.5   
Ultra AC/5 Ammo (40)          LA        2        -       2.0   
Ultra AC/5                    LA        5        1       9.0   
Communications Equipment      LT        4        -       4.0   
Cargo                         LT        2        -       1.5   
Heat Sink                     RL        1        -       1.0   
Ultra AC/5 Ammo (40)          RA        2        -       2.0   
Ultra AC/5                    RA        5        1       9.0   



[Luciora]

Like I said, I'll figure something out, removing the head off a Griffin mech is quite daunting.  Using the viewport as a screen sounds like the best compromise for a small decal.

[Luciora]

Also, the kitbashes are based off the IWM metal releases. Can't source the AGOAC or Beginner box minis solo reliably to do this project.  Since my original Syberian drones are metal, I'm sticking to the same medium.

[Giovanni Blasini]

I like them. I saw that you went for making them as close to their original Mech models in terms of firepower, but of course, you probably know that just about every named AutoMech would likely have a unique weapon loadout of its own (Many Streaker-types--Bluestreak, Prowl, and Smokescreen, for instance--tend to have a pair of small laser-type weapons mounted on either side of their heads, while Jazz's shoulders are clear.) Also, definite credit where it's due: Hounder class is better than the generic "VeeMech" class I called them.

I kind of see the Hounder and the VeeMech as different, with the Hounder as being more akin to a 5/8 heavy cavalry 'Mech (taking the place of 'Mechs like the Wolverine, Quickdraw or Dragon), while the "VeeMech" is more of your slower line 'Mech, like the progenitor Thunderbolt, or maybe even better, the Merlin.

On the names, VeeMech might be a class of 'Mech, too, like a generic name for larger wheeled AutoMechs among the AutoBoPs, and the Interstellar Expeditions group misinterpreted what they were told about them.  That may be how I end up treating it in my story, at least.  The 4/6 Sounder equivalents among the AutoBops, for example, might have a name that's a riff on Ironhides and truck-themed, like Diamondplate, or...hmm.  Make the combat-focused ones use names revolving around "Knight", like "Iron Knight" and "Diamond Knight", or "Titanium Knight", etc., while multi-role ones thet forgo weapons for cargo and equipment, like Rachet/"Spanner" use tool-based names, and maybe have a baseline group name of "Toolbox".

So...

• Hounder: 60 ton, 5/8 cavalry "VeeMech" (wheeled automech), baseline weaponry as posted.
• Toolbox: 60 ton, 4/6 support "VeeMech", baseline weaponry per the "VeeMech" in Welcome to the Nebula California
• Knight: 60 ton, 4/6 line "VeeMech", drops the two cargo bays for additional weaponry, such as 3 medium lasers, upgrading the ERLL to an ERPPC, and adding a heat sink.

Then, on all the AutoMechs, variations or customization of weaponry occurs based on availability of parts, specific variations of roles, etc.

(based on what was my first real exposure to Transformers media, their addition to the netflix war for cybertron series giving the idea of them co-existing with the G1 types, and the fact that they're getting an origin film for the live action series this year..)

The beastmechs of Axilum
Located on Syberia's southern hemisphere, the bio-dome preserve of Axilum is a massive canyon similar to the Valles Marineris of Mars, which the creators domed over and converted into a nature preserve recreating Syberia's pre-colonization atmosphere and preserving a portion of the worlds otherwise extinct ecosystem. managing this gigantic zoo and defending its infrastructure from the warring factions of syberia are an entire faction of bestial automechs, the Axilun Management and Logistics force, or AxiMaLs. With alternate forms designed to allow them to travel within the nature preserve without unduely disrupting the massive and dangerous creatures within, AxiMaL automechs include many cosmetic features giving their bestial forms a more organic look, giving the impression massive terran and alien animals. however the emphasis the creators gave to the AxiMaL automechs limited the size and combat power, leaving them more vulnerable in warfare with the other factions of the planet, and their organic appearance is considered unsettling by most other automechs.

I like 'em.  Those came out pretty neat.[/list]