Recent aero errata

[Maingunnery]

Do you own the scenario book Living Legends?
In it is a deck by deck blueprints of the Aegis (2750).
Check out the Fighter Decks.  IIRC it's a "7-slice pie shape" with each wedge being a fighter bay & the 7th being the "Door".
Each fighter is moved into place by a central crane.
I question how this set up is launching at the game rate of 2/minute, lol, but I like the look of it.
Yet, while this set up makes sense it wouldn't be universal since things like the Leopard/Leo-CV & Union all appear to be the Door right into the bay, at least per the artwork.
Most bays have this issue.  LV-50, HV-100, SCC-200
I think the Mech/Fighter at 150 tons were done that way to represent being 0-G launchable/droppable.
Vees not being droppable (originally) didn't get it which then makes "Bay Quarters" seem odd since 3-7 people should still be a ton or so.
Shuttles are really off since they have Quarters & are 0-G bays.

If they ever do another AT RS product that changes stats again, probably go back & make the LV/HV/SCC weight in at 60-120-250 so that the SCC matches the Mech/Fighter while the other 2 get "simpler" frames that are only 20% of max weight.

Concerning bay quarters and small craft, SC do not need separate bay quarters as they already have quarters as part of their own construction. This is a bit typical of the SC, as unlike other units it appears to be quite self-sufficient.

[Weirdo]

I still think y'all are grossly overthinking it, still.

Fighter bays weigh 150 tons and do everything they do because they weigh 150 tons.

Shuttle bays weigh 200 tons and do everything they do because they weigh 200 tons.

It really doesn't go any deeper than that.

[Hellraiser]

Concerning bay quarters and small craft, SC do not need separate bay quarters as they already have quarters as part of their own construction. This is a bit typical of the SC, as unlike other units it appears to be quite self-sufficient.

They do, and yet, I'm not sure I see many people staying on board their shuttle & not having quarters aboard ship.
They also don't have Quarters on board the SC for the Techs.
SCC come with 5 quarters from the old rules, 3 crew & 2 techs IIRC.
So while they may not "need" them, for the crew, its there already as part of the construction rules.

What really needs to be clarified is what the 50 tons for the Mech & ASF Bays actually represents.
It's clearly not Quarters, or Repair Gear, or Roll On/Off Gear.

As I mentioned before, I think back in the day it represented Launch/Drop gear which is why Vees didn't have it, but that doesn't explain SCC.

[Hellraiser]

I still think y'all are grossly overthinking it, still. 

As a game, it's overthinking it, agreed.

But if you do try to rationalize what that 50 Tons is, it makes you wonder why only Mech/ASF have that 50 tons & Vees/SCC don't.

[Maingunnery]

They do, and yet, I'm not sure I see many people staying on board their shuttle & not having quarters aboard ship.

Why be so wasteful with tonnage? And why would the crew carry their personal stuff back and forth?

They also don't have Quarters on board the SC for the Techs.

Just assume that the crew are also the techs.

[Daryk]

I took a swing at rationalizing transport bays down in fan rules a few years ago: https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,73980.0.html

[Weirdo]

As a game, it's overthinking it, agreed.

But if you do try to rationalize what that 50 Tons is, it makes you wonder why only Mech/ASF have that 50 tons & Vees/SCC don't.

Which is why I don't try to rationalize that 50 tons. Does the bay fit in the ship? Does the fighter fit in the bay? If yes, I'm good, and the game can begin.

I'm not saying you can't try to think about such things, though I seriously doubt you'll ever get an acceptable answer.

[Hellraiser]

Why be so wasteful with tonnage? And why would the crew carry their personal stuff back and forth?
Just assume that the crew are also the techs.

1.  I don't consider it wasteful.  It's not realistic IMO to expect a shuttle crew to live on board the shuttle 100% of the time.
Shuttle Quarters are because shuttles sometimes do long range missions unlike fighters  (See Aquarius, Lyonesse, Long Range Shuttle, Etc etc.)
Not to replace living on board the larger unit/location  (Jumpships, Dropship, Warship, Space Station, Air Base, Whatever)

2.  Why would the crew being carrying "personal stuff" back & forth?   They have regular quarters & then have "semi-quarters" with a full rack, small shower/toilet etc etc "MORE than a cockpit" that they can use on a long transit from Jump Point & back.
I mean, if they only had the Shuttle Quarters, where would they sleep/live when the Shuttle is getting an overhaul?
Where to they keep everything else they own that isn't included in the prison cell sized quarters that a shuttle gives them.
Use the quarters on the Ghost from Rebels as an example of what SCC Quarters would be like.
Fine I guess if you don't own more than a bag or 2 of gear for your entire life but even my Army barracks gave us more space than that.
Let alone the amount of "stuff" you could have in an apartment.
Also, what if the SCC Team has a family?  Someplace to go after missions.  Or between rotations, etc etc.

3.  Why would I assume that my 3-man Shuttle Crew is also able to provide the full Tech support of 2 added Full-Time Techs &/or the complete Tech Teams that are now required?

[Maingunnery]

1.  I don't consider it wasteful.  It's not realistic IMO to expect a shuttle crew to live on board the shuttle 100% of the time.
Shuttle Quarters are because shuttles sometimes do long range missions unlike fighters  (See Aquarius, Lyonesse, Long Range Shuttle, Etc etc.)
Not to replace living on board the larger unit/location  (Jumpships, Dropship, Warship, Space Station, Air Base, Whatever)

If they have shuttle quarters then any other specifically dedicated quarters is wasteful.

2.  Why would the crew being carrying "personal stuff" back & forth?   They have regular quarters & then have "semi-quarters" with a full rack, small shower/toilet etc etc "MORE than a cockpit" that they can use on a long transit from Jump Point & back.

There is no reason to assume that shuttle quarters are that much worse. Especially considering that a shuttle crew might spend most of their time with the shuttle, either in flight or doing maintenance.

I mean, if they only had the Shuttle Quarters, where would they sleep/live when the Shuttle is getting an overhaul?

As long as the atmosphere stay intact in the crew section they can just stay in the shuttle. But in an emergency they can result to borrowing quarters in shifts.

Where to they keep everything else they own that isn't included in the prison cell sized quarters that a shuttle gives them.
Use the quarters on the Ghost from Rebels as an example of what SCC Quarters would be like.

I have no idea of what you are talking about. But the idea that a small craft quarters is significantly less than those on a DS or JS, seems to be just your idea.   

3.  Why would I assume that my 3-man Shuttle Crew is also able to provide the full Tech support of 2 added Full-Time Techs &/or the complete Tech Teams that are now required?

The same way that I expect a crew of a dropship to do their own tech support.

[Hellraiser]

If they have shuttle quarters then any other specifically dedicated quarters is wasteful.
There is no reason to assume that shuttle quarters are that much worse. Especially considering that a shuttle crew might spend most of their time with the shuttle, either in flight or doing maintenance.
As long as the atmosphere stay intact in the crew section they can just stay in the shuttle. But in an emergency they can result to borrowing quarters in shifts.
I have no idea of what you are talking about. But the idea that a small craft quarters is significantly less than those on a DS or JS, seems to be just your idea.   
The same way that I expect a crew of a dropship to do their own tech support.

Ok, you do you.
I'll keep thinking that having Shuttle Pilots live in the hanger bay while my Fighter Pilots, Mechwarriors, Tankers, Marines, etc, all live in the Crew Quarters section of the ship would make for a weird set up.
Also that Techs are needed to keep things running.

[Lagrange]

Also that Techs are needed to keep things running.

(1) There are several small craft with long duration missions where maintenance is presumably necessary.
(2) The ability to self-maintain is a good reason to have a crew of size greater than 1.
(3) It's doable in the maintenance rules with 'take extra time' canceling the rump tech team.

As far as where people want to live, my understanding is: bays (think airplane seating,max few days) < steerage (think hostel, you better be friends) < 2nd class quarters (motel, semi-private) < 1st class quarters (hotel, complete privacy, desk space, etc...). 

[Daryk]

I think of bay quarters as enlisted quarters on modern ships (three high racks in contiguous spaces).  Steerage quarters would be multi-person staterooms with shared heads down the passageway.  "Standard" quarters would be no more than two people per stateroom.  Officer quarters would be single rooms, possibly with their own heads (or a "Jack and Jill" one shared with one other at most).

[Lagrange]

I think of bay quarters as enlisted quarters on modern ships (three high racks in contiguous spaces). 

I'm skeptical about this one, at least for infantry bays.  Cramming 30 people with an average mass of 100 kg each in 5 tons leaves 66 kg/person, including seating and life support.  That seems like airplane seating rather than triple bunk with a storage locker. 

[Daryk]

It's 85 kg with gear per Tech Manual page 155.

[Lagrange]

It's 85 kg with gear per Tech Manual page 155.

187 pounds with gear seems rather light from what I know of practical infantry, but maybe space travel selects for little people.  Either way, I think you can see what I mean?  That's still in the ballpark of airliner allowances.

[Daryk]

I've personally experienced WWII era berthing... those were four racks high with light tubing holding up canvas on which a thin mattress was placed.  Even modern berthing uses light steel to hold up the mattresses.  I wouldn't characterize airliner seating as "berthing", really.

[Hellraiser]

my understanding is: bays (think airplane seating,max few days) < steerage (think hostel, you better be friends) < 2nd class quarters (motel, semi-private) < 1st class quarters (hotel, complete privacy, desk space, etc...). 

I think of bay quarters as enlisted quarters on modern ships (three high racks in contiguous spaces).
  Steerage quarters would be multi-person staterooms with shared heads down the passageway.
  "Standard" quarters would be no more than two people per stateroom.
  Officer quarters would be single rooms, possibly with their own heads (or a "Jack and Jill" one shared with one other at most).

I'm skeptical about this one, at least for infantry bays.  Cramming 30 people with an average mass of 100 kg each in 5 tons leaves 66 kg/person, including seating and life support.  That seems like airplane seating rather than triple bunk with a storage locker. 

187 pounds with gear seems rather light from what I know of practical infantry, but maybe space travel selects for little people.  Either way, I think you can see what I mean?  That's still in the ballpark of airliner allowances.

Not at all. 
Lets see, at 5'10" I was 155lbs, throw in BDU/Boots for maybe 10lbs.   Rifle & basic LBE was maybe 15?.
Maybe in a combat zone w/ body armor & a ruck sack loaded for a 3-day mission that might be light.
It's in the realm of possible for sure & leaves 80KG of bunk/locker each w/ some shared common area showers.

I've personally experienced WWII era berthing... those were four racks high with light tubing holding up canvas on which a thin mattress was placed.  Even modern berthing uses light steel to hold up the mattresses.  I wouldn't characterize airliner seating as "berthing", really.

Agreed, airliners is basically what you have on APCs.  Okay, a bit more, but not much.



There is no 1 exact standard for the 4 berthing types.

Based on DS/JS Descriptions, current naval rooms, a few blue prints from BT products, I tend to group them as follows.

Officer = Single Occupancy small room w/ small restroom, possibly shared w/ a neighbor.

2nd Class = 2 Single Bunks in a small room & a shared restroom for every 2 rooms.  (My active duty barracks actually)

Steerage = 2 Double Bunks in a small room & a shared restroom down the hall.  (Basically Jack's room in Titanic exactly.)  (Or some of my Basic training small rooms)

Bay Quarters = Navy Triple Bunks basically a mat w/ curtain to draw closed, exactly how DS/JS describes the MW Bay Quarters.  4 racks of 3 Bunks high w/ Wall/Foot lockers.  Or Possibly WW2 era barracks w/ a large room & lines of bunk beds & a shared restroom at 1 end of the bay.

Finally,
Cargo Bay = Gymnasium Shelter housing, IE, cots w/ blankets & everyone's bags on the floor.

There are counter examples for most everything.
Like the same DS/JS has the DS Crew in the same type of quarters as the MW/ASP, but they are not stated the same & have 2nd Class v/s Bay on the RS, but that's fluff for you.