Author Topic: Vehicle of the Week Update: Saracen Medium Hover Tank  (Read 7489 times)

Moonsword

  • Acutus Gladius
  • Global Moderator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 16596
  • You interrupted me reading TROs for this?
Vehicle of the Week Update: Saracen Medium Hover Tank
« on: 25 January 2011, 21:05:11 »
Vehicle of the Week Update: Saracen Hover Tank

(Due to our recent mishaps with the forums, the original article covering the Saracen, Scimitar, and Saladin has been appended to the end of this post.)

The Saracen, Scimitar, and Saladin, originally from TRO3026, are familiar faces to the long time players and linked by a common history.  The first of them developed was the Saracen, which was named for an ancient people living near Roman Syria, the term "Saracen" was broadly used for Muslims in general during the era of the Crusades, a common element throughout the S-series of hovercraft.  Given Scarborough Limited's major manufacturing plant on Al Na'ir, I suspect there's a relationship between the names and the Azami, although Scarborough's original facilities were in the Free Worlds League on Whitby.  In any case, the Saracen was a major commercial success, selling well and widely, particularly in the League, which uses the majority (the Marik Militia alone accounts for over a third of annual sales) partially due to the shell company Scarborough Licensing PLC on Whitby, a remnant of Scarborough plant that was wiped out in the First Succession War, about two centuries before the Saracen was released.  The practice is a bit controversial - Irian Technologies and Exeter Corporation, among others, have called for a ban - but remained legal up until at least the Jihad, and if the Al'Na'ir facilities are still exporting in the post-Jihad environment, I doubt anyone's in any great hurry to deal with the matter since the FWL is having a bit of a null existence error.  Two notable Saracens are mentioned - the Cockroach from the Insect Brigade, notable for using Infernos and hoist by their own petard when a Locust from the Dragonslayers blew the bin to pieces, and the Loch Ness Monster, managing to run its bins nearly dry as part of a raid on Pella II.

The basic Saracen set the type both for its own variant and, in many ways, the Scimitar and the Saladin that would follow in its dust trail.  35 tons puts it at the top end of light vehicles, with a 105 ConLee ICE engine - cheap, easily obtained, and enough to drive it at 129 kph in open terrain.  The Coventry Starlight 10-tube LRM rack and the trio of Guided Technologies SRM 2s in the turret were chosen for their reliability and effectiveness, with a triple mount chosen for its greater ability to withstand battle damage.  Given the complications to construction caused by the ammo feeds and the extra dice rolling, personally I might have opted for an SRM 6, but you would rob the Saracen of a bit of its flavor.  The LRMs have 24 reloads while the SRMs share a single ton, giving the hover tank considerable endurance in the field.  Seven tons of ProtecTech armor were layered 24/20/24/24, heavier than the much larger Bulldog and quite sufficient for a vehicle of this tonnage.  Some crews wind up replacing the missile racks with other brands but Holly launchers are incompatible and frequently fire when the turret is jarred.  Simple, reliable, and effective, Saracens are one of the true gems of level 1 vehicles.

There are times upgrades capture the spirit and charm of the original while remaining a real, substantive improvement like the TDR-7M Thunderbolt.  Others manage to bring a renaissance to a sub-par design, turning it into an effective, capable member of a battle force like the BJ-3 Blackjack.  And then there's the Saracen "upgrade" from Record Sheets: Upgrades which, while offering a decent amount of firepower, kind of loses track of the original's actual utility.  The armor was pulled for ferro-fibrous layered 25/21/24/25, the only real improvement to be found.  What really galls me is the MRM 20 and Streak 2 in the turret, sharing the same ammo load as the original.  Yes, you've got a decent ability to slam someone point-blank, but part of the Saracen's value lay in the flexibility and range of the Inner Sphere LRM as well as the sheer spread of SRMs it could lay into someone with.  Saracens could be used in roles from direct strikers to mobile fire support for light forces.  The accuracy penalty is also kind of annoying.

Saracens are, in a very real way, the high-speed open terrain equivalent to the Striker with approximately the same armament, slightly thicker armor, and a hover's ability to get the most out of a given engine.  In open field situations, Saracens are harassers and flankers par excellence, armed well enough to chase light scouts off or, in numbers, act as a  highlymobile reserve, and fast enough to do reconnaissance, a real renaissance tank.  They can also strike across the waves in many situations.  If you're expecting tight quarters, the Striker's lower BV and lack of any flank speed surprises off the pavement may cause you to opt for it.  The variant lacks the original's reach but can swarm someone with a flurry of MRM hits, which may be what you need in a given situation.  As usual with a vehicle, try to avoid giving anyone a free shot at your sides - the armor is thinnest there anyway but the real problem is the increased vulnerability to motive hits, which are a hovercraft's bane.  The ability to dart from cover to cover for indirect fire is always useful.

Saracens are pretty tough for their size, sitting right on the 20% mark for armor, but are vulnerable to the same range of hovercraft killers as usual.  LB 10-Xs are the gun for all seasons for all the usual reasons but longer-range weapons to respond to the LRMs are useful.  Precision ammo, other LB-Xs (or a Silver Bullet Gauss rifle), and pulse lasers may also come in handy to deal with the movement modifiers hovers, even relatively tame ones like the Saracen, can rack up.  Since they're cheap, be prepared for a number of them to hit you at once, and watch for indirect fire.

Visual References: The Master Unit List has the Saracen in all its glory, including the fact that Clan Wolf of all people operates it.  CamoSpecs has two different miniatures to choose from.



(Note: The following is a repost of the reposted article on the Saracen, Scimitar, and Saladin and selected replies.  Custom variants were redacted per board policy but quotes are otherwise unaltered.)

Original Poster: JadeHellbringer
Original Post Date: 26 March 2005

Vehicle of the Week is back again! A little late unfortunately, but better than never. And this week's request is a good one too, well worth waiting for! Thank you to Worktroll for coming up with the idea of covering the three S-class hovercraft- Saracen, Saladin, and Scimitar!

Why three tanks at once? Lets face it- this is a prototype Omnitank in a way. Three different vehicles by looks and behavior, but all are based on the same chassis, but with different weapons layouts- much like later Omnitanks are, but without the ability to easily change versions (yes, I know, can't change armor on an Omni-unit, quiet you). I personally classify them as one unit with several different layout options, and so we cover all three. Complaints? Shaddup 

Lets start with the basic chassis. As with most hovercraft, speed is the watchword here- 8/12 movement is great in the Lv.1 days, and at least decent in Lv.2 as well. This allows these vees to outrun most Battlemechs in open terrain, and can even pace the fastest of them like the Locust (though that ability is lost in Lv.2 of course). None of the three are very pricey in their early versions, which means they are likely frequently seen, even in 'cheap' armies like bandit kingdoms, small merc units, and militia units. Of course, to dismiss any of them as mere second line craft is to make a huge mistake- one that armies don't walk away from.

We'll start with the Scimitar. Of the three, I feel it is the least impressive- this on the grounds that they wasted room on everyones least favorite eight ton plus ammo monstrosity, the AC-5. Ugh- can we get a medium laser in here please? This dismal weapon doesn't give the tank a realistic chance of making a kill, even in Lv.1 days- the gun just doesn't do damage. Twin SRM-2s are very nice backup weapons though, giving decent short range punch, and all three weapons are turret mounted allowing the Scimitar to engage targets in all arcs. Six tons of armor make this a tough tank to kill too- fast and tough, but not able to cause pain the way its sisters can.

Next up, the Saracen. This is one of the most popular Lv.1 tanks, and with good reason! Even tougher than the Scimitar with seven tons of armor- enough to withstand an AC-20 hit anywhere and survive!- the Saracen also has vastly increased firepower. An LRM-10 rack sits in the turret, with superior range and power to the Scimitars main gun. Backing it are three SRM-2s, allowing it to be even more dangerous when it gets close. This is an excellent hovertank that cannot be ignored even in Lv.2 days- I have seen a lance of them take apart a Clan Masakari A, and that's no easy task!

The last Lv.1 version of the chassis is the most unusual, but probably the single most popular hovercraft of all time. The mighty Saladin has no turret, and only a fraction of the armor of its sisters- a mere two tons cover its frame, and it can't survive a  hit from anything bigger than a medium laser anywhere but the still meager front arc. But who cares? A mighty AC-20 sits in the nose, making this a light Mech killer extraordinaire. A lance of these can zip around an enemy force, causing massive damage and at the same time being very difficult to hit with their high movement. They are excellent for hitting an enemy forces rear while they're already dealing with your Mechs, and are also great for city fighting. The trick- don't plan on them coming home. Every Saladin that survives a battle is a bonus to you, because one good shot and this is a dead duck. Three tons of ammo makes the Saladin able to stay in the field for a long time, but I'd like to see a ton or even two removed for armor myself.

As with so many other combat units, RS:Upgrades brought us new and exciting versions of the S-tanks. Again, we'll cover the Scimitar first. This one has undergone a massive rethinking, dropping the dismal autocannon. A Narc launcher has replaced it, trading a dubious weapon for a dubious electronic system. Both SRM launchers have doubled in size, giving it a full eight-missile salvo to use with the Narc. Finally, TAG allows it to perform artillery spotting- it's still the least useful of the three, but has a clear cut role in battle now- a big improvement.

The Saracen got an upgrade too, though a pretty controversial one. An MRM-20 sits in the turret now, backed by a single Streak-2 launcher. Doh! MRMs have their uses, but the old version was a better tank overall in my book. The added power of the MRMs is offset by the poor accuracy, and losing the SRMs makes it less deadly in close as well. This one I would avoid.

But again, the Saladin got TWO upgrades- each one deadly and simply reeking of Steiner influence. The first is pretty simple- strip out the AC-20 for an Ultra AC-20. Ow. The ability to fire TWO powerful shots per turn makes the Saladin deadlier than ever, but there are flaws. For one, we go through ammo twice as fast- so ten rounds goes pretty quick. Also, the armor is thin as ever- risking a valuable Ultra AC-20 to a simple lucky hit is a big risk. Your call on whether this one is worthwhile- I don't like it as much as the other Lv.2 version, but it has great light Mech killing ability and can even worry the toughest of assaults.

And that other Lv.2 version? What else? The LB-20X autocannon. Simple one-for-one upgrade from the old AC-20- ammo, armor, etc. are all the same, but the ability to now fire the mighty tank-slaying cluster shot makes this probably the most useful of the S-tanks, and it only gets more deadly if you play with the floating crit rule. An 8/12 heavy clustergun? For fairly cheap? Sign me up! Again, armor is thin, so risking the loss of a valuable weapon is a choice you'll have to make.

Though the speed is great, and a hover tank can go places other tanks can't, these beasts wouldn't be my first choice of vehicles. Only the Saracen and the LBX version of the Saladin are ones that have a good balance of weaponry and armor. The others give up one or the other and that is just dangerous. A lance could take on a Mech, but each individually would be ripped to shreds. Given a choice, I would go with a different vehicle all together. 

Thats it for another VotW! Next week we'll be back- on time, no less- with a controversial but deadly vee designed to kill Clan Omnimechs from a distance. See you then! Hope you enjoyed!

Quote from: NikasZevral
While I agree the old school Saracen is good any day, I say the Scimitar is useful when you expect the fight to be in close, and the Saladin (aka the Suicide Sled) rep is overblown, mostly by the gloryhounding mechjocks that thought vehicle=no threat (more on this later).  On note, all three upgrades did one thing right, they all have ferro-fiberous armor.  A cheap upgrade for vehicles, in terms of C-Bills and bulk, it is one of the few weight saving construction materials not restricted solely to Battlemechs.

The Saracen is pretty much half a Dervish or a hovering Striker, once you get used to hovercraft movement use it exactly like one and you should be okay.  The upgrade is half assed.  If they really wanted an MRM Saracen they should have mounted 3 MRM-10s and two tons of ammo.  Unify the dange missile packs.

The Scimitar works better in close terrain than the Saracen, pulling an ambush of close range combat under the LRM minimums.  I'd use it as an adjunct to Saracens, like a lance in the company or a company in the battalion of Scimitars to Saracens.  Use them tag team, the Scimitars to tie up forces while the Sarahs pound away with LRMs.  The upgrade is a FIST vehicle.  Tack a pair onto oldtech Saracen company, or a lance onto the battalion for NARCing or TAG SG rounds.

The Sally has an overblown rep.  Sure it can be a danger to be backstabbed (or even front stabbed) by a Suicide Sled or four, but if you ran out to far in front to be supported by your comrades you deserve to get butt ****** by a Sally or four.  Dealing with Sallies I recomend cribbing from Trace Colburn's Aerospace Mantras (The Seven Highly Effective Habits of Old Aerojocks and how They Got that Way), keep your forces in range to support each other, never leave your buddy hanging all alone, never give the enemy a blind spot to hit you from with impunity, and teamwork, teamwork, TEAMWORK!  The last time I remember being assaulted by Saladins my side's mechs kept their heads and blew up three of the four Sallies before they even reached weapon range, and the final one got off a backshot (than missed) and was destroyed by the return fire.  Of the three I'd say the UAC model is the best, in most cases 10 rounds would be far too few, OTOH if a Sally makes it to it's second salvo your enemy has either been ambushed, inatentive, or the crew was born under a lucky constelation.  If you make it to the fourth salvo you are fighting an idiot, or were born under a luck galaxy.  The Sally hits high on my generic target priority list for the same reason the missile carriers and the Loki/Hellbringer does, killing them results in a significant loss of enemy firepower for a relatively low investment of my own firepower.

Quote from: bsmart
The Saladin will get murdered in open games, and for good reason. However in double blind games you can use them to give your opponent a pretty awful scare. 4 of these things popping up beside you, or worse, behind you, can cripple a lance in a volley even if they die to return fire. They don't last long in a fight, but I'd trade a lance of Saladin's for a pair or even a whole lance of mediums.

Quote from: oldfart3025
The Scarborough designs have been a commonly used family of combat vehicles, in games I've played/run, since I first got into Battletech. They're solid, capable designs that do well at their roles on the hexsheet.

My fave, hands down, is the Saracen. It was among the best vehicular missile boats in the game, back in Level One-only days. I hold it in the same high regard as the original Hunter. And today, it still compares well with more modern units, such as the Stygian (and it's "Mudskipper" variant). In fact, the Saracen has the advantage over the base Stygian in term of armor protection. And it tends to be more effective during occasional high-speed slash attacks against vehicles with it's SRM Systems.

As such, it didn't get much in the way of upgrades from my end. [REDACTED]

As for the so-called canon "upgrade", it's a joke. I wouldn't further waste my time using it, except under duress, during a campaign.

I've always used the Scimitar as a high-speed harasser. And back in the day, I considered the AC/5 somewhat sufficent in that regard. But times change.

[REDACTED]

The canon variant is interesting, especially with the Level Two/ Three alternate pods giving greater flexability to the NARC System. It doesn't fit my SOP for Scimitar usage, but the results from the one game I've played it in merits further consideration.

Now for the Saladin. This hover vee is the most problematic when it comes to upgrades. There isn't much room to play with here. After toying with several variations (none were to my satisfaction), I took a more radical route.

[REDACTED]

Quote from: chanman
I'm shocked (SHOCKED!) that there isn't a Sallie IIC for those Solamah looking to go out in a blaze of glory in one last battle.

Oh sure, The Xerxes, the Hunchback IIC, and the Sabutai config with the triple -20's all qualify as one-way glory machines, but frankly, Mechs and ASFs and fusion or XL engines are pricey. [REDACTED]

Quote from: Galleon
When playing a multiplayer, single vehicle per player CBT3025, these are a bargain as the token light mech/vehicle. My experience is they are easily a match for any "light" light mech (ie. Spider, Stinger or Locust) when used properly.

But to have some longevity in that type of game, you wan't to avoid being hit at all.
« Last Edit: 15 June 2011, 20:57:03 by Moonsword »

nerd

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 2329
  • Nunc Partus-Ready Now
    • Traveller Adventures
Re: Vehicle of the Week Update: Saracen Medium Hover Tank
« Reply #1 on: 25 January 2011, 23:09:02 »
IMHO, the base Saracen makes near perfect sense for your basic missile armed hovertank in almost any period.  After the Helm Core Technological recovery, you could pair it with something with either TAG or Narc for increased lethality cheap.
M. T. Thompson
Don of the Starslayer Mafia
Member of the AFFS High Command

Moonsword

  • Acutus Gladius
  • Global Moderator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 16596
  • You interrupted me reading TROs for this?
Re: Vehicle of the Week Update: Saracen Medium Hover Tank
« Reply #2 on: 25 January 2011, 23:24:46 »
IMHO, the base Saracen makes near perfect sense for your basic missile armed hovertank in almost any period.  After the Helm Core Technological recovery, you could pair it with something with either TAG or Narc for increased lethality cheap.

Coincidentally, there's a Scimitar variant that's just perfect for that.

Later on, I'd give consideration to an MML model, but per board policy, substantive speculation along those lines really belongs somewhere else.  Let's not get the mods involved before the new car smell has even dissipated...

Iron Mongoose

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1473
  • Don't you know, you're all my very best friends
Re: Vehicle of the Week Update: Saracen Medium Hover Tank
« Reply #3 on: 26 January 2011, 02:53:31 »
With the best range and power, its probably the best of the trio, though I close infreequently enough that I'd sooner pull a few SRMs for ammo and other fun goodies.  And its always worth noting that back in the day, the old rules gave SRM2 carriers alone the inferno option, turning this cheap and chearful little LRM tank into a fire starter in a pinch, though I won't use it that way unless I was in dire strights myself.
"For my military knowledge, though I'm plucky and adventury,
Has only been brought down to the beginning of the century..."

Moonsword

  • Acutus Gladius
  • Global Moderator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 16596
  • You interrupted me reading TROs for this?
Re: Vehicle of the Week Update: Saracen Medium Hover Tank
« Reply #4 on: 26 January 2011, 07:54:29 »
Indeed they did, along with Streaks, but the sun has long since set on that day.  Not a bad option, though, if you need some extra flexibility.

Iron Mongoose

  • Lieutenant
  • *
  • Posts: 1473
  • Don't you know, you're all my very best friends
Re: Vehicle of the Week Update: Saracen Medium Hover Tank
« Reply #5 on: 26 January 2011, 12:21:23 »
Well, like so many authors (one other at least, anyway) my background is history.  Its nice to give a newer reader a sense of what weapon choices meant for a unit historicaly, so that they can understand where it came from, and the way it was thought of in its day. 

The Cavelry VTOL famously uses a mix of 6s and 2s just to alow inferno fire, for example, but under the modern rules its much worse off than if it has just used 6s and more ammo.  A modern reader would see this flaw and assumed it was made poorly for flavor, or the designer was an idiot, when in fact the designer was very thoughtful and skillful (in that sense). 

I would want to reader of an article such as this to be able to put these old sucession wars tanks in their context.  A modern reader might look at this unit in the context of the Jihad, and reasonably so as this is a unit that can still do work in support, and think something like "it might be a good mine layer, or it could really benifit from the NARC it's brother mounts in its modern incarnation, which is also very true.   I'd love to NARC some fools, then run a lance of these behind some hill and lob indirect fire untill the bins run dry.  Then charge in with the SRMs and some Saladins to finish the job.  But that's a very modern tactic (at least with the NARC; indirect had been an option much longer) and a sense of how this might have fought its contemperaries is important as well.
"For my military knowledge, though I'm plucky and adventury,
Has only been brought down to the beginning of the century..."

Moonsword

  • Acutus Gladius
  • Global Moderator
  • Colonel
  • *
  • Posts: 16596
  • You interrupted me reading TROs for this?
Re: Vehicle of the Week Update: Saracen Medium Hover Tank
« Reply #6 on: 26 January 2011, 13:22:02 »
My background's history and CS, personally.  I just don't think about the 2 racks in that context very often since the rule long predates my own participation in (or really awareness of) BattleTech.

As far as the Succession Wars, I tried to do that with the original variants, but honestly, they're the sort of timeless, simple solutions that, to me, are really only invalidated dealing with Clantech.