Author Topic: Damocles . . .  (Read 22494 times)

Colt Ward

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Damocles . . .
« on: 30 December 2022, 16:43:34 »
Starting in but . . .

 . . . Erik was the one, per sourcebook, who sent the recall for Julian- how does he become a 'hold out' in this book?

 . . . the Swordsworn as a body have not existed since late 3130s or early 3140s.  Aaron Sandoval's troops became at least the 3rd & 4th FedSuns Lancers who were defending Tikonov with him.  Heck, I would have to read the opening of FM3145 again- not available right now- but I want to say they had also constituted another FedSuns Lancers regiment thus accounting for the 'three' MWDA Swordsworn regiments.
Colt Ward
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Adrian Gideon

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #1 on: 30 December 2022, 17:02:49 »
If you want official answers:
Cite the lines in novel that have issues
Cite the sources that they contradict
Post in either Ask the Line Developer or Ask the Writers

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Colt Ward

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #2 on: 30 December 2022, 17:27:53 »
Eh, it is written I was just putting it here for conversation but I guess I can grab the bits.
Colt Ward
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VhenRa

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #3 on: 31 December 2022, 01:51:44 »
And are we missing something for Alexander Hasek here?

Because it feels like we are missing a chapter or short story or something...

Adrian Gideon

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #4 on: 31 December 2022, 08:29:16 »
Sorry! Discussion here is appropriate. I misunderstood, sorry.
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Marveryn

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #5 on: 31 December 2022, 16:19:20 »
To answer some of the question as far as i understand it.  Erik may had sent for the prince and he was indeed loyal to him but they been butting head on how to proceed with campaign from him focusing on the capellen front instead of focusing more on free new avalon to how quickly and so on.  On top of that the swordworn are disbanded but the survivors remain loyal to Erik and are the core of his unit.  Notice Justin arrive onboard a merchant mech not in the head of a full battlelion of mechs.  This lead me to believe that it the warriors we are speaking about who original were from the republic but are now being replaced by sun citizen. 
For the most part in the story the name of the unit justin seem to be part of is the 1st Guard if am remembering right when they are in the com during battle.   So while they are swordsworn in the past they are currently part of the 1st Davion guards.  (someone correct me if am being fuzzy) 

The book itself is wonder and Big red has already put out a review on his youtube channel.  For me personally the book shows the rise of the davion after being nearly grounded to atom back to respectablity.  (One issue they are going to have in the future is relying too much on mercenaries.  Mercenaries that can be bought for the right price by their enemies if hey are not careful.  Ask Capellen about that problem since it happen to them with the highlanders.) 
Overall the one that came out best in the book was Yori who finally got the thorn pluck while Julian has one driving into him.

CJC070

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #6 on: 31 December 2022, 19:00:20 »
Julian was offering landholds and salvage not money (the FedSuns are broke) this may come into conflict with some nobles but remember groups like the Grey Death Legion and Kell Hounds were given landholds and until the FedCom civil war this was a mutually beneficial arrangement.  There will be a lot of rogue Republic units some may join the FedSuns directly but really in Battletech any “foreign legions” are mercenaries.

Marveryn

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #7 on: 31 December 2022, 19:16:34 »
Julian was offering landholds and salvage not money (the FedSuns are broke) this may come into conflict with some nobles but remember groups like the Grey Death Legion and Kell Hounds were given landholds and until the FedCom civil war this was a mutually beneficial arrangement.  There will be a lot of rogue Republic units some may join the FedSuns directly but really in Battletech any “foreign legions” are mercenaries.

Yes landhold to protect with tax revenue which is what important but some of them may not be fed.  they are a something can be exploited particular when it comes to equipment as  the level of merc may differ.  ELH is one thing but not all mercenary are alike.  its rip for story idea no matter how you look at it.  between nobles within the fed making life miserable as they want the land giving or between possible enemies seeking to weaking the federation.

BrianDavion

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #8 on: 01 January 2023, 07:17:18 »
I think it's prety obvious from the ending that Erik and Julian's conflict pretty clearly is being stoked by Gavin Marik-Davion.

Erik's advisor (whose name escapes me) was always pointing out how Julian's actions could be interpreted in the most cynical/sinister light etc. and we now know he's working for Gavin. The big question to my mind is...
why?

I almost wonder if Gavin hs a long term plan to take the throne for himself.
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Lord Harlock

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #9 on: 01 January 2023, 18:02:26 »
I think it's prety obvious from the ending that Erik and Julian's conflict pretty clearly is being stoked by Gavin Marik-Davion.

Erik's advisor (whose name escapes me) was always pointing out how Julian's actions could be interpreted in the most cynical/sinister light etc. and we now know he's working for Gavin. The big question to my mind is...
why?

I almost wonder if Gavin hs a long term plan to take the throne for himself.

Well it is obvious that the Shadow Prince or Master Fox has had designs on the Suns for awhile, and we finally are starting to see his goal is to protect the Suns on one level. And it obvious that Gavin sitting in the shadows resents that his grandfather Victor left him without the birthright to the Suns. However, the organization that he belongs to might be something else. Gavin appears to be shifted around as the text describes from a cell to stateroom plus the reference to jailers. However, he has some sort of control of other members as well. Plus a unique communication device probably indicates a high level of tech.

Most likely, the organization has some connection to Blakest tech at the least considering the green text device. Could be the Lions?



Overall, I liked the novel since it did what a spine novel was suppose to do. It settled older conflicts, and at the same time, it started to set up new conflicts. The retaking of New Avalon didn’t take the whole novel, and we start to see the Federated Suns recover. While new conflicts and underlying unresolved issues are being set up such as March Lords feeling more independent thanks to the lack of HPG communications and aforementioned conflict between Julian and Eric to create new stories down the line.

Even the Combine considered it a win from Yori’ perspective since she was able to get rid of her master and disloyal unit. Plus, the novel wasn’t about some single lance that took out a whole regiment or something on a single world. That was refreshing.

My biggest complaint is that the Periphery March, June, and House Marsin continue to be ghosts. Plus, there was no real talk about jumpship yards at Delvann that are incredibly close to the former Dragon Tongue.

MarauderD

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #10 on: 01 January 2023, 21:42:18 »
Starting in but . . .

 . . . Erik was the one, per sourcebook, who sent the recall for Julian- how does he become a 'hold out' in this book?

 . . . the Swordsworn as a body have not existed since late 3130s or early 3140s.  Aaron Sandoval's troops became at least the 3rd & 4th FedSuns Lancers who were defending Tikonov with him.  Heck, I would have to read the opening of FM3145 again- not available right now- but I want to say they had also constituted another FedSuns Lancers regiment thus accounting for the 'three' MWDA Swordsworn regiments.

I agree on the Swordsworn.  I can’t quote line and verse, but they don’t exist.  I think this might be a good thing for the editors to take another look at.  That, or I really misunderstood things I’ve read in the past.

Lord Harlock

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #11 on: 02 January 2023, 00:57:40 »
It’s Era Report 3145 opening fiction that is on Tikonov: FM3145 makes it a bit murkier. In the write up for the FedSuns Lancers, it states that the new brigade commander is a former Swordsworn. There is no indication that the Swordsworn became part of the Lancers in FM: 3145. I’d have to dig up Era Report 3145 to see if it says it there or in the Era Digest Dark Age. It is also possible that Torger McGaha or Eric renamed the Lancers to the Swordsworn just because of nostalgia at that point between 3145 to 3151. Who knows? It could also just be a newly raised unit by Sandoval with Swordsworn veterans attached.

Marveryn

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #12 on: 02 January 2023, 01:43:17 »
It’s Era Report 3145 opening fiction that is on Tikonov: FM3145 makes it a bit murkier. In the write up for the FedSuns Lancers, it states that the new brigade commander is a former Swordsworn. There is no indication that the Swordsworn became part of the Lancers in FM: 3145. I’d have to dig up Era Report 3145 to see if it says it there or in the Era Digest Dark Age. It is also possible that Torger McGaha or Eric renamed the Lancers to the Swordsworn just because of nostalgia at that point between 3145 to 3151. Who knows? It could also just be a newly raised unit by Sandoval with Swordsworn veterans attached.
that what i am thinking.  Swordsworn where disbanded then Erik needing units to A) that he can thrust B) have a decent core call in the former swordsworn and reform them.  In the novel it state that units no longer is completely made up of republic troops.  We dont know how much of the original troop where left but enough that they are part of the leadership of the group and they retain elite status.   While a sure they were officially disbanded due to combat loss.  It wouldn't be the first unit to be re raised after a few years of rebuild

BrianDavion

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #13 on: 02 January 2023, 15:51:02 »
here's an idea, maybe "Sword sworn" is the nickname of the 4th fedsuns lancers? there problem solved.
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Fat Guy

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #14 on: 03 January 2023, 13:48:03 »
I almost wonder if Gavin hs a long term plan to take the throne for himself.

The way I read it, there isn't much to wonder about.   >:D

Who knows? It could also just be a newly raised unit by Sandoval with Swordsworn veterans attached.

It isn't the first time an author had brought back a defunct unit. Remember Pardoe and the Falcon Guards...
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Colt Ward

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #15 on: 03 January 2023, 15:44:34 »
I agree on the Swordsworn.  I can’t quote line and verse, but they don’t exist.  I think this might be a good thing for the editors to take another look at.  That, or I really misunderstood things I’ve read in the past.

It is in the opening of ER3145 where Aaron's 3 Lancers regiments are filled with former Swordsworn- but Eric had his own loyalists in those ranks, and members of the organization had drifted to him after Aaron's death per his bio in that book.  I did not really look at his bio since I knew him from MWDA novels.

BUT . . . the Swordsworn read more as Warrior Cabal 2.0.  Nowhere were they listed as their own unit, instead Eric's Swordsworn were in positions in the Davion Assault Guards that he commanded.

I think it's prety obvious from the ending that Erik and Julian's conflict pretty clearly is being stoked by Gavin Marik-Davion.

Erik's advisor (whose name escapes me) was always pointing out how Julian's actions could be interpreted in the most cynical/sinister light etc. and we now know he's working for Gavin. The big question to my mind is...
why?

I almost wonder if Gavin hs a long term plan to take the throne for himself.

Not my read at all . . . Gavin Marik-Davion is part (or maybe head) of the Cuiratis Organization.  Gavin did give intel to at least Erik, and I think Aaron as well . . . but he was the one at the end of one of the MWDA books sitting in Markeson Pride discussing services with Julian.  And handing him the information Julian did not previously have showing HE was supposed to be Harrison's heir and that Caleb was bonkers.

Gavin had a professed interest in seeing a Davion retain the throne of the FedSuns, AND the FedSuns becoming strong to follow it's ideals.  Nothing he did previously violates those two objectives- he aided the Swordsworn b/c it would return important worlds (like Tikonov) to FedSuns control and would raise more troops for the defense of the realm.  He provided information to the Swordsworn at a cost . . . but implied his assistance to Julian, while it would cost, would not be crazy expensive.

Gavin, the few times we see him, has been pragmatic . . . he has no following in the FedSuns.  Even released from the cell, for however long Julian has detained him, he has not tried to take a more public role.  Gavin might be content to being a power behind the throne.


I will say this novel was a refreshing return to feudal intrigue and some dynastic politics.  I think it is unfortunate that the only mention we got a the Periphery March was a few lines, one of the four 'dukes' they should have been involved . . . and unless I forget my map, THEY should have also been a issue when shooting started with the Taurians.  I was also hoping to get a line or two about the Filtvelt Coalition expeditionary forces.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

five_corparty

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #16 on: 04 January 2023, 11:04:00 »
I will say this novel was a refreshing return to feudal intrigue and some dynastic politics.

Concur, I -love- that about this book.  I think the Author killed it, just absolutely nailed what this book needed to be.

MarauderD

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #17 on: 04 January 2023, 12:42:28 »
I agree on Colt's points about the FedSuns.  There are four Marches now, and I'd like the Periphery March to be involved and have a say in power dynamics and politics.  Also, the Filtvelt Coalition fought against the Combine with a volunteer force.  What happened?  Were they part of the victory too?

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #18 on: 06 January 2023, 08:18:22 »
All this one did was prove to me that if the Federated Suns as a whole wants to go on, the March Lords have gotta go. It's been nothing but them picking wars with other factions while the nation faces crises or just outright treachery for decades. And worst of it all, Alexander was bad at it. And least James Sandoval and George Hasek made some, albeit very temporary, gains during the FedCom Civil War and Jihad respectively.

I can only hope we didn't hear from the current Marsin in the story because he's actually taking care of developing his March, and not that he was beaten to the punch of invading the Concordat by Hasek.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #19 on: 06 January 2023, 10:10:33 »
Yes, but I would have liked to see at least his representative on New Avalon involved in Court.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Templar87

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #20 on: 06 January 2023, 10:16:38 »
All this one did was prove to me that if the Federated Suns as a whole wants to go on, the March Lords have gotta go. It's been nothing but them picking wars with other factions while the nation faces crises or just outright treachery for decades. And worst of it all, Alexander was bad at it. And least James Sandoval and George Hasek made some, albeit very temporary, gains during the FedCom Civil War and Jihad respectively.

I can only hope we didn't hear from the current Marsin in the story because he's actually taking care of developing his March, and not that he was beaten to the punch of invading the Concordat by Hasek.


Hey, maybe if Yvonne and Harrison hadn't been so absolutely worthless as rulers (to the point where Etien or the Twin Tyrants - hell, even Katherine the Usurper - would've been better), there'd be some trust left between the March capitals and New Avalon. But, they weren't, so Julian's stuck with absolute rock-bottom levels of trust.


EDIT - I suppose that's the only real problem I have with Damocles Sanction; it tries really hard to pretend (and it is just pretension) that Caleb is the only reason anything went wrong. Which is, I feel, a disservice to Julian's narrative arcs because it doesn't leave him in any position to actually deal with the internal problems of the Federated Suns, since he doesn't actually know why those problems exist.
« Last Edit: 06 January 2023, 10:34:12 by Templar87 »
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Scrollreader

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #21 on: 06 January 2023, 10:44:42 »
It's pretty impressive that VSD isn't the worst first prince of the modern era (since 3025).  Stiff competition.

Templar87

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #22 on: 06 January 2023, 10:59:13 »
It's pretty impressive that VSD isn't the worst first prince of the modern era (since 3025).  Stiff competition.


Honestly, Victor's a pretty solid second place (really, Vic's a lot better than he's usually given credit for; his worst mistake was one a whole lot of other people made - assuming Jackson Davion had a spine), of the ones we can really make a judgement on (Julian simply hasn't been in charge for long enough to make any assessments; and for Caleb, well, for one thing we simply don't know anything about his rule, or at least not in any kind of useable detail (and what information there is, is contradictory), and for another he was functionally locked into having very few options by his predecessors' actions or inaction). Hanse fairly easily takes the top spot in this short list.


Harrison and Yvonne, though - as far as I can tell, each made exactly one good decision (that stuck, anyway) in their reigns, and for the rest of them screwed up basically everything.
“Keep your feet on the ground, a spare magazine in your pocket, watch your buddy’s back and never, ever give anything but your all!”
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"He who has made no mistakes in war has never made war."
- Henri de la Tour d'Auvergne, Vicomte de Turenne, Marshal of France, 1641

Colt Ward

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #23 on: 06 January 2023, 11:00:36 »
Aw come on, just because King Richard went on a Crusade and left his brother Prince John behind . . . .


Katherine Steiner-Davion circa 3060
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

BrianDavion

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #24 on: 06 January 2023, 16:16:44 »
Victor's problem was FASA seemingly hadn't read the Davion Hosue book, or they'd have realized he had a regent in Ardan Sortek
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Colt Ward

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #25 on: 06 January 2023, 16:21:41 »
Victor still should have had someone in position to help Katherine down the stairs the moment she mumbled 'Lyran Alliance' in her sleep.

Anyway, a solid challenger from one of the Dukes will be interesting . . . because Alexander would be VERY easy to turn up as a ally, leaving Periphery & Crucis vs Draconis & Capellan . . . unless the Terran March is resurrected for the RAF-in-exile.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

CJC070

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #26 on: 06 January 2023, 21:16:52 »
Aw come on, just because King Richard went on a Crusade and left his brother Prince John behind . . . .

Except John was usurped by the Nobles in the form of the Magna Carter

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #27 on: 06 January 2023, 21:39:00 »
And are we missing something for Alexander Hasek here?

Because it feels like we are missing a chapter or short story or something...

You aren't wrong. I kind of glazed over it when I read past it, assuming that it was something in Shattered Fortress of ilClan I had forgotten about and would circle back around to later. And now it's later and there isn't anything in either. Heck in ilClan he's still missing. So I suspect we'll see something in Dominions Divided.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #28 on: 06 January 2023, 21:54:53 »
It is probably something referenced in Dominions Divided.
Colt Ward
Clan Invasion Backer #149, Leviathans #104

"We come in peace, please ignore the bloodstains."

"Greetings, Mechwarrior. You have been recruited by the Star League to defend the Frontier against Daoshen and the Capellan armada."

Jellico

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Re: Damocles . . .
« Reply #29 on: 07 January 2023, 02:48:32 »
We don't talk about Alex, no, no.

 

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