BattleTech - The Board Game of Armored Combat
BattleTech Game Systems => General BattleTech Discussion => Topic started by: JadeHellbringer on 19 November 2017, 02:55:23
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I don't have my books handy- are A-pods a Mech-only system, or can you mount them on vehicles? Pretty sure you can't (certainly I can't think of any doing so), but it sure would be handy. A free internet cookie to whomever can give me an answer with a page reference. (Presuming M-pods would have the same restrictions.)
Hive mind... GO!
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tech manual pg 204/205
the writeup on pg 204 doesn't specify, but the summary on 205, says they may only be mounted on battlemechs, industrial mechs, and ground based conventional and support vechicles, IE those with wheeled, tracked, hover, or WIGE motive systems.
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Canon vees that mount A-pods include Deusenburg One, Hanse Davion's personal limo from TRO: VA. (He never actually set foot in the thing.)
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Interesting. So there actually IS a canon vehicle (if only a one-off) with them? Excellent. I wonder why we don't see them more often then on combat units- you'd think urban combat units in particular like the DI Schmitt or Chalupa-tank would benefit from having them in particular.
Both of you win an internet cookie. The bad news is that they're oatmeal-raisin. Life sucks. >:D
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I LOVE oatmeal raisin!!
Yeah, Apods rather suck on Mechs, but suck every so slightly less on tanks, especially scout ones.
Heck, I'm visualizing a hovertank with like 40 of them on a turret, like a hedgehog, just cruising around looking first poor bastards that trigger their Hidden position... Splat!
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Interesting. So there actually IS a canon vehicle (if only a one-off) with them? Excellent. I wonder why we don't see them more often then on combat units- you'd think urban combat units in particular like the DI Schmitt or Chalupa-tank would benefit from having them in particular.
Both of you win an internet cookie. The bad news is that they're oatmeal-raisin. Life sucks. >:D
Y'know, I have several coworkers who REALLY love the oatmeal raisin.
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I LOVE oatmeal raisin!!
Yeah, Apods rather suck on Mechs, but suck every so slightly less on tanks, especially scout ones.
Heck, I'm visualizing a hovertank with like 40 of them on a turret, like a hedgehog, just cruising around looking first poor bastards that trigger their Hidden position... Splat!
The problem is just how limited A-pods are. You can ONLY trigger them if an infantry unit tried to swarm/kneecap you, or if they attack using the pointblank hidden units rule that interrupts your movement. If they wait until someone stops near them and reveal and attack normally in the weapons phase, or attack normally any time after that, the A-pods cannot be used, even if they're in your hex.
It basically means you'll get one attack ever with A-pods against a given player, and after that they know how to defeat them until enough time passes that they forget, or you play a scenario that for some reason requires the use of swarm/leg attacks.
Now a hovertank loaded with B-pods...now you're talking. 8)
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A-pods had the bad timing of being introduced at the same time as Battle Armor. While I'm sure it was terrifying and brutal to those players who actually used standard infantry when attacking a Hellbringer Prime but otherwise doesn't do much for you on the battlefield when people start killing Battle Armor.
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I’m actually imagining a fast hover with a bunch of M-Pods, preferably teamed with a Saladin or Blitzkrieg. }:) The latter tear chunks with their big bore guns, then spray them with a few M-pods...
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A-pods had the bad timing of being introduced at the same time as Battle Armor. While I'm sure it was terrifying and brutal to those players who actually used standard infantry when attacking a Hellbringer Prime but otherwise doesn't do much for you on the battlefield when people start killing Battle Armor.
It definitely didn't help their cause, for sure. Elementals getting hit with an A-pod are probably more amused than anything. But in any era, getting swarmed by anti-Mech infantry is a pretty awful thing- I'd rather have the pod handy and not end up using it than have someone knocking on my canopy glass and asking for a cup of sugar.
(To my shame, I have never used a B-pod or M-pod. I've only used an A-pod once, in fact. The good news: The infantry died. The bad news: The Hellbringer that popped the pod was dealing with the infantry AND a Battlemaster, so...)
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A couple M-pods also fit on a certain 5 ton hover...good (non-canon) times.
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A couple M-pods also fit on a certain 5 ton hover...good (non-canon) times.
Oh god, that would be hilarious. I demand this be made both possible by rule and then immediately made a canon variant. Bonus if one can use it as part of a charge attack.
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There is a canon config of the drone Zephyr that mounts multiple M-Pods in a turret. >:D
Unfortunately, it's only useful in TW scale, as M-Pods do exactly bupkiss in AS.
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There is a canon config of the drone Zephyr that mounts multiple M-Pods in a turret. >:D
Unfortunately, it's only useful in TW scale, as M-Pods do exactly bupkiss in AS.
that reminds me of one of my friends (non canon) drones, it was a small vehicle with 0.5, or 1ton machine gun ammo "cased" (sort of) to blow out the front instead of the rear, and its primary attack was to charge (ram) and then the damage usually (almost always) set off the ammo.
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I've always imagined seeing the visual of a mech kicking another , THEN activating his A-B pods to blow up causing more damage from the kick..
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that reminds me of one of my friends (non canon) drones, it was a small vehicle with 0.5, or 1ton machine gun ammo "cased" (sort of) to blow out the front instead of the rear, and its primary attack was to charge (ram) and then the damage usually (almost always) set off the ammo.
Years ago, here in the DC area we had a pretty great grinder game in which people created a mini-grinder folder with 12 record sheets in it (three of each weight class). Trick was, you made the folder for SOMEONE ELSE- and therefore you were supposed to fill it with the kind of stuff you'd want your enemy to use against you. Cossacks, Jagermechs, Chargers, etc. (The big reveal for the players when they arrived was that actually the folder you made... was yours. ;) )
Anyway, Paul (yes, THAT Paul) got special permission to design his own Mechs for his own folder, and while he could have made decent if flawed machines... he really went all out to make bad Mechs. 'Server Room' sticks in my mind, with its eight C3 Master computers. They were unusable, wretched, designed to simply be funny as hell.
Well, one of them (I don't recall the name) was a kamikaze. A single MG (mounted in the head, backwards), fed by four tons of MG ammo, all in the legs... and MASC. The idea was to run up in someone's face, take a leg crit from the MASC roll, blow an ammo bin, and then have an engine detonation (we used slightly modded engine explosion rules to make them more powerful and a bit easier to cause)- taking out anyone nearby.
Paul ran up to my Akuma, got his MASC failure, and... an actuator and a hip. Rather than going out in a blaze of glory, he simply ran up and... fell down. Then got stomped on by the Akuma. So close to glory! I still wish he'd have been able to light that one off, that's something you don't get to see every day.
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'Server Room' sticks in my mind, with its eight C3 Master computers. They were unusable, wretched, designed to simply be funny as hell.
Also included:
The Glass Missile. Start with a firestarter, strip all its armor, install a boobytrap, MASC, Supercharger. Composite structure (or whatever the one is that takes 2 damage for 1 incoming damage) Charge a target from 2 maps away. The impact will destroy the Mech, triggering an engine explosion. Or the boobytrap has to do it.
Worked on a guy with the Shield power up.
Bad Taco Night: 20 tonner with 2 rear mounted PPCs, and insufficient Heatsinks.
The trebupult: heavy mech with 8 LRM15s and 1 ton of ammo. It hilariously wiffed its salvo.
Paul ran up to my Akuma, got his MASC failure, and... an actuator and a hip. Rather than going out in a blaze of glory, he simply ran up and... fell down. Then got stomped on by the Akuma. So close to glory! I still wish he'd have been able to light that one off, that's something you don't get to see every day.
Hax! Hax I say!
Yeah, that's the closest I was likely to get to killing 2 Mechs in the movement phase: his and my own! Brian really hoped he'd lose initiative compared to me so I didn't have a chance of triggering my leg bomb.
(Also, that Mech had closer to 30 tons of MG ammo, everywhere. The first critical hit anywhere likely would've blown it up too!)
Paul
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That reminds me of a custom design from way back in the days of IntroTech only (PS: I am old) that one of my friends threw together; called the Hedgehog or something similar. Basically it was a heavy 'Mech with entirely machine guns, based on the premises that a) zero heat weapons in the days of single heat sinks meant you could last forever and b) all our battles tended to devolve into point-blank slugging matches.
The first (and only) battle it was in, it got back-shot by a Griffin. The hit went through the rear armour and straight to the machine gun ammo...
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A-pods had the bad timing of being introduced at the same time as Battle Armor. While I'm sure it was terrifying and brutal to those players who actually used standard infantry when attacking a Hellbringer Prime but otherwise doesn't do much for you on the battlefield when people start killing Battle Armor.
A-pods are so hilariously underpowered for their role that I really don't think it would have mattered when they were introduced. They'd have been really bad if they'd been around for the 3rd Succession War.
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Only way to unsuck them is to have them prevent the Swarm attack if they inflict any damage, and even then you prob still need to bump them to 2d6 damage.
Of course, swarm attacks are also nerfed in to irrelevance, so there's that.
Paul
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They should also be able to be able to affect any infantry in the hex with them, regardless of what it's doing.
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That reminds me of a custom design from way back in the days of IntroTech only (PS: I am old) that one of my friends threw together; called the Hedgehog or something similar. Basically it was a heavy 'Mech with entirely machine guns, based on the premises that a) zero heat weapons in the days of single heat sinks meant you could last forever and b) all our battles tended to devolve into point-blank slugging matches.
The first (and only) battle it was in, it got back-shot by a Griffin. The hit went through the rear armour and straight to the machine gun ammo...
Done that before with a 45 tonner.. ALso done the 100 ton 'fireball' NOTHING BUT Medium lasers and ER_mediums... in EVERY SLOT available. 4/6 XL engine iirc... 180 points max damage in alpha strike, but it would shut down for at least 5 rounds before even standing a chance to cool off..
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Only way to unsuck them is to have them prevent the Swarm attack if they inflict any damage, and even then you prob still need to bump them to 2d6 damage.
Of course, swarm attacks are also nerfed in to irrelevance, so there's that.
Paul
That IS true, I haven't been swarmed under the current rules but my horror stories from it all date to the old days- and they were distinctly unpleasant. (One player's Elementals swarmed my Dragon in a 3050-era Mechwarrior 2nd ed. game, and as he pulled open the cockpit hatch he yelled "What's YOUR name?" in an Adam Sandler voice. The reply via auto-pistol apparently wasn't the answer he wanted to hear- nor was it effective in any way.)
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The high TN, the turn delay in doing damage, the fact that they're both easy to remove, and easy to damage... someone got way too scared of swarming.
In my view, once you're swarmed, you SHOULD be done. BA is so slow, you're really asking for it if you let them. And if you're getting ambushed by em, well, that OUGHT to suck.
Paul
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The high TN, the turn delay in doing damage, the fact that they're both easy to remove, and easy to damage... someone got way too scared of swarming.
In my view, once you're swarmed, you SHOULD be done. BA is so slow, you're really asking for it if you let them. And if you're getting ambushed by em, well, that OUGHT to suck.
Paul
Like someone else speaking the thoughts in my brain.
Are you me?
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You are Paul, and Paul is you.
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Possibly going off topic, but can you drag a trailer into a building and drop it off?
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Possibly going off topic, but can you drag a trailer into a building and drop it off?
That's... definitely off-topic, but I'm curious where you're going with it anyway.
So what we're doing, then, is driving a vehicle towing a trailer into a building (I'll presume you don't mean bashing through the wall?), and leaving it in the middle? I can't think of a reason you COULDN'T, but it's possible I'm wrong on that.
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That's... definitely off-topic, but I'm curious where you're going with it anyway.
So what we're doing, then, is driving a vehicle towing a trailer into a building (I'll presume you don't mean bashing through the wall?), and leaving it in the middle? I can't think of a reason you COULDN'T, but it's possible I'm wrong on that.
Loading up cheap trailers with one-shot weapons (including B or M pods of your choice) then plunking them in buildings for urban combat trolling.
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Who would operate the trailer? Typically it is the vehicle crew
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I get that A-Pods are GREAT for swarms of infantry, I loved the idea when I first read up on the A-Pod (mech mounted Claymors) but after 23 years of playing, I have never once been swarmed by standard infantry. It's a very niche weapon.
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I get that A-Pods are GREAT for swarms of infantry, I loved the idea when I first read up on the A-Pod (mech mounted Claymors) but after 23 years of playing, I have never once been swarmed by standard infantry. It's a very niche weapon.
It's one of those things that makes a TON of sense in-universe, not as much in gameplay. Look at the setup for an RCT- one regiment of Mechs, three of vehicles, FIVE of infantry. That's a whole lot of grunts. That's how most non-Clan militaries are laid out in the universe, there's a lot more conventional forces than Mech forces, even in the Civil War-era of huge Mech armies. Just how it is- economically, it's a lot easier to hand Billy Bob a rifle and tell him to kill the guys over there than it is to train him to operate an expensive walking tank. So that means most battlefields are going to be swarming (heh) with infantry- and thus the A-pod makes a ton of sense.
But in a tabletop game, most players tend to avoid using infantry- many even prefer not to use anything BUT Mechs (which is a shame, to me, but to each their own). So if you don't FACE infantry, you don't need that half-ton used on a silly A-pod that never will go off. It's one of those disconnects between the table and the books, unfortunately- hardly the most serious one, of course, but one regardless.
Now, for me, I'd like to see the ability to set A/B/M pods as mines, but that might get a little ugly.
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A-pods should have been standard equipment from Star League-era onward to make some sense as they are, i mean, they're simple enough Spheroids copied them with no differences...
Better yet, they should be effectively B-pods but with A-pod statistics (half a ton weight, no explosion if hit), might've made them more useful and sensible, especially if introduced by Clans.
Side note: I didn't realize just much infantry BT actually has.
Five regiments of infantry per RCT? That is nearly 4000 soldiers.
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Deploying that much infantry on a table would be funny... (EDIT 5 regiments of infantry formed from standard platoons is 3780 troops. Split that platoons, you get total of 135 platoons of infantry. The opponent should bring a lot of artillery, no 'Mech is gonna wade into that.)
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Who would operate the trailer? Typically it is the vehicle crew
Trailers within the Battletech rules are simply vehicles with no engine, or just a minimal one for power, and a trailer hitch in the front. They have their own crew, just like any other vee.
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Are robot/drone trailers allowed...?
I mean, vehicle drones are allowed so logically that applies to trailers as well.
Sorry for the digression, i just had an idea and started wondering.
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Are robot/drone trailers allowed...?
I mean, vehicle drones are allowed so logically that applies to trailers as well.
Sorry for the digression, i just had an idea and started wondering.
If not (and I rightly don't know, though it would make SENSE), that's what penal colony crews are for.
Hello, Cohors Morituri. :))
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How do you get penal colony crews to actually shoot what they're supposed to instead of backstabbing the regular troops or just running away?
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How do you get penal colony crews to actually shoot what they're supposed to instead of backstabbing the regular troops or just running away?
This is my thinking. I don't trust conscription, and prisoner army even less. I mean, pointing guns at guys who are getting sent to face guns doesn't really work. And offering them freedom or even other rewards is dubious since there are no guarantees they get to enjoy those.
I would remind what happened with Kuritan Chain-Gangs during the Succession Wars. (The only ones that worked were drugged out of their minds or insane to begin with, me thinks.)
Dronified-ambush-trailers are much more reliable, ignoring ECM...
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Now, for me, I'd like to see the ability to set A/B/M pods as mines, but that might get a little ugly.
THIS! Giant Claymors for everyone!
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How do you get penal colony crews to actually shoot what they're supposed to instead of backstabbing the regular troops or just running away?
Traditionally, the Soviet method was to set up machine gun crews behind them to deal with anybody running the wrong way. In this crazy mixed up scifi world of ours... well, I will point out that the explosive suicide implant is readily available to all factions in all eras and can be remotely detonated.
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In this crazy mixed up scifi world of ours... well, I will point out that the explosive suicide implant is readily available to all factions in all eras and can be remotely detonated.
It's one less step to simply wire the trailer full of explosives for remote detonation than to wire the guy who's supposed to operate the trailer full of explosives for remote detonation. Though perhaps not as funny.
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Wouldn't A-Pods basically be better if they had 'ammo'. Instead of being one HUGE Claymore, banks of them so they can be fired repeatedly. That would explain why the damn thing weighs half a ton.
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Wouldn't A-Pods basically be better if they had 'ammo'. Instead of being one HUGE Claymore, banks of them so they can be fired repeatedly. That would explain why the damn thing weighs half a ton.
Yeah, getting down into quarter-ton setups is messy for construction purposes (particularly with fractional accounting gone), but if it's going to be half a ton I expect a little more bang for my buck.
As-is, I just presume it's the shaped charge, shrapnel, casing, and a whole lot of confetti. SURPRIIIISE!!!
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Traditionally, the Soviet method was to set up machine gun crews behind them to deal with anybody running the wrong way. In this crazy mixed up scifi world of ours... well, I will point out that the explosive suicide implant is readily available to all factions in all eras and can be remotely detonated.
The Marians are described as doing exactly this in the Testudo's fluff.
My preference is to convince to trailer crews that there's a plan behind all this, and they're not getting left there to die. Being truthful when you tell them this is also nice, but I'll admit it's not strictly mandatory every time, especially in this setting.
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The Marians are described as doing exactly this in the Testudo's fluff.
My preference is to convince to trailer crews that there's a plan behind all this, and they're not getting left there to die. Being truthful when you tell them this is also nice, but I'll admit it's not strictly mandatory every time, especially in this setting.
"Just push the blue buttons if infantry come into the building."
"What's the red button?"
"Push THAT one if a Mech comes over. It's... a surprise."
"Suicide charge, eh?"
"You're too smart to be in the Morituri. What a shame."
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In-universe, that's probably exactly how the conversation goes.
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Yeah, getting down into quarter-ton setups is messy for construction purposes (particularly with fractional accounting gone), but if it's going to be half a ton I expect a little more bang for my buck.
As-is, I just presume it's the shaped charge, shrapnel, casing, and a whole lot of confetti. SURPRIIIISE!!!
I'll admit at my table I still use 1/4 ton fractions when building things, but I find them easy enough to track and remember.
I will say that if it was me on the Timberwolf prime I would have reduced the MG ammo instead of dropping the error small laser... but that's me
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I think I'm going to start referring to ER lasers as error lasers from now on. ;D
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Only way to unsuck them is to have them prevent the Swarm attack if they inflict any damage, and even then you prob still need to bump them to 2d6 damage.
Of course, swarm attacks are also nerfed in to irrelevance, so there's that.
Paul
I think that's an ongoing problem with BT's balance for infantry, infantry have been kept/made so powerless that once BV and especially the later versions that infantry are so cheap you can put a horde of them on the table.
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I think that's an ongoing problem with BT's balance for infantry, infantry have been kept/made so powerless that once BV and especially the later versions that infantry are so cheap you can put a horde of them on the table.
I don't remember what the other side of the table looked like but I've heard of games where one player had gave up a bunch of mechs for something like 20 platoons of infantry. Oh and they were fighting in a city :-\
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At that point, you insist on fire rules being in play and just burn the whole place down.
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I don't remember what the other side of the table looked like but I've heard of games where one player had gave up a bunch of mechs for something like 20 platoons of infantry. Oh and they were fighting in a city :-\
Ah, the "A gun behind every blade of grass" strategy. I did that a couple times, mixed in some light armor and offboard artillery too, and they were all hidden. Still lost, my opponents turned the city into a moonscape.