Destroyed Clan Homeworlds

[Hawkeye Jim]

Is there any info anywhere about which Homeworlds were rendered uninhabitable? Some were apparently abandoned, but I've never seen a list of them.

[Stormlion1]

Totally destroyed? Most are just abandonend due to bio weapons and warfare. York is the only one that comes to mind for being destroyed, and that's only because of the amount of dust blocking sunlight from the surface.

[Vition]

Is there any info anywhere about which Homeworlds were rendered uninhabitable? Some were apparently abandoned, but I've never seen a list of them.

The political distribution lists are located in the Wars of Reaving page 248-249.

That shows inhabited and controlled worlds, but it may not be exactly what you are looking for, as it doesn't specify the others are completely uninhabited/uninhabitable.

[Gaiiten]

Destroyed is none of the known Homeworlds planets.
Clans do not have a Death Star or something similar), rendered unlivable is more properly described what they did.

[Dragon Cat]

Think it was 2 of the Pentagon worlds and a couple of others but it also says the Clanners are trying to rebuild them

[Hawkeye Jim]

I'm aware that none of them were destroyed, but it seemed that some of them were very heavily damaged and not worth salvaging. They just left any survivours to fend for themselves or die.

[cold1]

Off the top of my head only York and the Tanite worlds come to mind.

Several others are just messed up due bio weapons and could possibly be reclaimed.  Not sure if terraforming can clean them up or not.

[Jaim Magnus]

Think it was 2 of the Pentagon worlds and a couple of others but it also says the Clanners are trying to rebuild them

Eden and Circe are abandoned.

[Jaim Magnus]

Albion, Atreus, Circe, Delios, Eden, Ironhold, Lum, Marshall, New Kent, Paxon, Priori, Shadow, Tranquil, Vinton and York.

Compare the list in Warriors of Kerensky with that in the Wars of Reaving.

[Jaim Magnus]

Given that Circe is due to reach aphelion in 3184 and likely need evacuation at that point, I don't see much effort being made to reclaim that world.  Also, the home Clans may view it as tainted... it was originally assaulted by the Snow Ravens, Wolverines, Mongoose and Nova Cats... all Clans that are no more in the home Clans view.

[Hellraiser]

Between 3067 & 3085 the following 17 worlds were rendered unviable for a variety of reasons.

Albion
Atreus
Circe
Colleen
Delios
Eden
Ironhold
Lum
Marshal
New Kent
Paxon
Priori
Shadow
Tanis
Tranquil
Vinton
York

26 systems remain populated in 3085, leaving them just over 60% of their pre-reaving space.

[rebs]

Circe is a lost cause until 3250 or later. 

But on the bright side, it will have been thoroughly cleansed with fire.   >:D

[Hawkeye Jim]

That is a pretty high loss rate. However, with only about 25% of the Clans left, I suppose they have plenty of worlds now.

[Hellraiser]

The Coyotes & Lions are about as well off as a typical clan was in 3067 for raw space.

The Cobras & Adders are way ahead of the game now.

That said, even the Adders are behind every invading clan.
There territory is about as much as the Nova Cats could claim.

[cold1]

The Coyotes & Lions are about as well off as a typical clan was in 3067 for raw space.

The Cobras & Adders are way ahead of the game now.

That said, even the Adders are behind every invading clan.
There territory is about as much as the Nova Cats could claim.

Yeah but they still have factories to build new toys with.

[rebs]

Not to mention a slightly more unified approach now that the weaker Home Clans have been culled.  Clanners still gonna Clan, but I think the wasteful political struggles will mostly be a thing of the past.  At least for a little while.  If the wheels fall off of a new invasion, all bets are off about this new-found Home Clan fraternity.

[Gaiiten]

Given how Clan Homeworld economy is described in WoR sourcebook, a more unified approach might get a new economic boom on Homeworlds.
Furthermore, I think that on many of the abanonded worlds they may just use for mining raw materials, not for resettlement.

[wellspring]

On one hand, the entire Kerensky cluster pre-WoR was about the size of each invading Clan's OZ. Lots of those worlds are now depopulated, possibly even uninhabitable.

But with that said, they have a huge manufacturing base compared to the IS clans, who except for the Bears had to pack and leave in a hurry. The pentagon worlds suffered even more brutally in the Exodus Civil War and were fine by the Invasion Era. As the Blood Spirit hidden worlds demonstrates, the Clans still haven't fully explored their stellar neighborhood. And strict observance of zellbrigen and trials will keep the fighting ritualistic and the collateral damage to a minimum.

Remember, these worlds weren't terribly habitable to begin with. You'd lose vast numbers of people on some worlds just when the environmental controls were destroyed. OTOH, restoring them seems feasible, with only a few exceptions. Many were abandoned for economic reasons-- consolidating each clan's holdings around a smaller footprint they could actually settle and defend. Given the population and rebuilding, these might be reoccupied.

So really given what little we know, the homeworld clans could span the gamut from total descent into barbarism to a new Golden Century. That gives the developers a lot of leeway when crafting the future of clan space.

[jimdigris]

If things are so good in the Homeworlds, why haven't they invaded yet?  I think the damage was worst than anyone realized.

[rebs]

Somebody always has to shower on the Home Clan lovefest.  ;D

The Homies did have to stop a couple of generational breeding cycles.  That's going to set them back for a long time...   lots of Bloodnamed old farts who reminisce about things like the Hellions and the Great Refusal for a long time.  To get the program back to where it was during Revival, that will take forever.  And what with time jumps and all, time is the one thing that is not in short supply.

Lots of factories and facilities to fight over, but a lot less warriors to do the actual fighting would be the case. 

So, I guess what I really mean is good point, jim. 

[Hawkeye Jim]

Maybe after the WoR was over, they realized they hadn't advanced any father than the IS did. Their war resembled the WoS and produced even worse results. That should make them rethink what they were doing.

[rebs]

Maybe after the WoR was over, they realized they hadn't advanced any father than the IS did. Their war resembled the WoS and produced even worse results. That should make them rethink what they were doing.

If roughly 40% of the IS was destroyed in the Jihad (somewhat close to WoR figures), THAT would lead to a true Dark Age. 

Another interesting What If. 

edit: It will be interesting to see if Clan tech is further than or behind that of the IS...   or divergent in some new way.  By the DA, and later by the 3250 mark, we'll know.

[cold1]

If things are so good in the Homeworlds, why haven't they invaded yet?  I think the damage was worst than anyone realized.

Or the Bastions remain in power and are reigning in the invasion until the clans are ready. 

[Nerroth]

Or the goal is to turn the relatively-unspoiled worlds of the Hanseatic League into a fully integrated part of Homeworld Clanspace by 3145.

With 29 worlds to choose from, none of which have (so far as is known) been afflicted with the kind of damage as was unleashed in the Pentagon and Kerensky Cluster, and at least two planets of note (Bremen and Antwerp) known to have temperate climates, Hansa space must look pretty inviting to the Adders and friends as of 3090. (At least, things seemed to go well in terms of surveying the four systems on the receiving end of the Adders' incursion of 3088.)

And while the Barrens are intended by the Council of Six to act as a speedbump in case of any future invasion along the old REVIVAL invasion route, the frontier of the Inner Sphere and near Periphery facing "north-west" towards Hansa space does seem to be at risk of exposure as of 3145; though, of course, we'll have to see what the upcoming field manual has to say on that score.

[wellspring]

I think Nerroth has a point here. The Star Adders are in the driver's seat, at least as of 3085. What characterizes them? Very long, methodical, relentless, strategic campaigns. They are deeply conservative, preferring slow, low-risk gains over fast blitzkrieg strikes. And they prefer using overwhelming force rather than hard-fought but more equal campaigns. So doubling the Home Clans' footprint using better worlds that put them closer to their invasion targets is right up their alley.

But it's all speculation. To answer the OP, I don't think we can rule any planet in the Kerensky Cluster a certain permanent loss except maybe Circe. Over a period of decades in the Dark Ages, the published material leaves the authors room to do anything and everything they might want.

[Dreyf]

At least portions of Marshall were resettled with a couple of factories brought back online by the Cobras and Lions.

[Nerroth]

I forgot to add that if we're counting the likes of the Tanite worlds in the discussion, the Colleen system may not have a lot worth going back for. Honor was devastated due to wholly natural causes, while Haven was pretty heavily bombarded by the Adders during the course of the Blood Spirits' destruction.

Of the two, Haven might be a potential candidate for re-colonization, but I would imagine the Adders might resist the idea out of sheer spite towards their former enemies. But then, if their own long-term plans are more oriented towards Novgorod and other coreward Hansa planets, they may one day be more open to one of the three other Homeworld Clans going back to Haven in the event that doing so would turn out to be worth anyone's time.

[rebs]

Or the goal is to turn the relatively-unspoiled worlds of the Hanseatic League into a fully integrated part of Homeworld Clanspace by 3145.

With 29 worlds to choose from, none of which have (so far as is known) been afflicted with the kind of damage as was unleashed in the Pentagon and Kerensky Cluster, and at least two planets of note (Bremen and Antwerp) known to have temperate climates, Hansa space must look pretty inviting to the Adders and friends as of 3090. (At least, things seemed to go well in terms of surveying the four systems on the receiving end of the Adders' incursion of 3088.)

And while the Barrens are intended by the Council of Six to act as a speedbump in case of any future invasion along the old REVIVAL invasion route, the frontier of the Inner Sphere and near Periphery facing "north-west" towards Hansa space does seem to be at risk of exposure as of 3145; though, of course, we'll have to see what the upcoming field manual has to say on that score.

I've thought the same thing for a while, mentioned it on the Adder thread, too.  Hanseatic Space is prime to be exploited.  And if there is one thing the Clans are really good at (besides lots of war), it's developing resources.  The Clans have proven beyond even the rest of humanity that homo stellaris can live almost anywhere.  Give them a patch of actual nice worlds in the antispinward neither regions and see them prosper - and then come for your soul like the dread pirate roberts.  The Clans will likely have plenty of time to do that, if they can make the natives to those lush worlds that are ripe for the taking see things their way.

[wellspring]

I forgot to add that if we're counting the likes of the Tanite worlds in the discussion, the Colleen system may not have a lot worth going back for. Honor was devastated due to wholly natural causes, while Haven was pretty heavily bombarded by the Adders during the course of the Blood Spirits' destruction.

Of the two, Haven might be a potential candidate for re-colonization, but I would imagine the Adders might resist the idea out of sheer spite towards their former enemies. But then, if their own long-term plans are more oriented towards Novgorod and other coreward Hansa planets, they may one day be more open to one of the three other Homeworld Clans going back to Haven in the event that doing so would turn out to be worth anyone's time.

The Adders seem remarkably... flexible... when it comes to accomplishing their objectives.

Colleen may be devastated and off-limits, but it's telling to me that viable worlds so close to kerensky space weren't discovered for so long. Primarily due to the warriors wanting to monitor everything. A major program of exploration might net even more worlds.

[Archangel]

Colleen may be devastated and off-limits, but it's telling to me that viable worlds so close to kerensky space weren't discovered for so long. Primarily due to the warriors wanting to monitor everything. A major program of exploration might net even more worlds.

Of course that would mean that the warrior caste would have to loosen the reins a bit which after the fiasco with the Society, the Burrocks AND the Dark Caste they are probably strongly opposed to giving up any more power than they have to.

[Archangel]

The biggest issue plaguing the Homeworld Clans (and further delaying any invasion of the IS) is that their bloodlines are questionable even those that have been proven to be untainted.  It will take several generations before each of the respective HW Clans' eugenics program have proven their long-term viability.

Add to their headaches is the fact that their scientist castes have been devastated during the WoR and in subsequent executions by the warrior caste.  Decades, if not centuries, of scientific knowledge has been permanently lost.  Without this knowledge as well as damage caused by the Society, the Clans' eugenics programs as well as their weapon development programs have suffered irreparable harm that is likely to set their efforts back for decades.

[wellspring]

Of course that would mean that the warrior caste would have to loosen the reins a bit which after the fiasco with the Society, the Burrocks AND the Dark Caste they are probably strongly opposed to giving up any more power than they have to.

The biggest issue plaguing the Homeworld Clans (and further delaying any invasion of the IS) is that their bloodlines are questionable even those that have been proven to be untainted.  It will take several generations before each of the respective HW Clans' eugenics program have proven their long-term viability.

Add to their headaches is the fact that their scientist castes have been devastated during the WoR and in subsequent executions by the warrior caste.  Decades, if not centuries, of scientific knowledge has been permanently lost.  Without this knowledge as well as damage caused by the Society, the Clans' eugenics programs as well as their weapon development programs have suffered irreparable harm that is likely to set their efforts back for decades.

Agreed on both counts. However, with the Adders' legendary flexibility and good relations with their civilians, it's not inconceivable. But I agree that the mess will take decades to clean up.

Ben did a remarkable job delivering crotch-kick after pounding crotch-kick, yet still leaving the story interesting and comprehensible. There's sufficient leeway left in the after-plot that we really have no idea what they're doing in the Homeworlds and what will happen next.

While it's fun to speculate, I think really the evidence we have supports (or, rather, fails to falsify) pretty much any situation for the home clans prior to the HPG blackout.

[rebs]

While it's fun to speculate, I think really the evidence we have supports (or, rather, fails to falsify) pretty much any situation for the home clans prior to the HPG blackout.

Yet it's still anyone's guess as to exactly how things will unfold.   So many variables and options to be exercised. Not to mention, there still might be variables or other machinations in the works that we do not yet know about.  More truth about the Clans, some hidden danger brewing that dates from RWR times, something from the age of war or prior could snake back around and prove to be nasty... 

Our predictions are very dependent upon what we already know.  Our speculation can only run so far before the author's territory, beyond which we cannot travel with any kind of surety. 

One outcome is certain: war, and lots of it, will be made. 

[Gaiiten]

The Homeworld Clans should use a strategy as WH:40K Tyranids do (nomad-style warfare-> hit, exploit as many resources and do the most damage in the shortest time as possible, vanish -> repeat the cycle).

Shock and awe, not being predictable, being totaly a wildcard.
.