Succession Wars Mech downgrades

[Colt Ward]

One of the more interesting mechs to come out in recent sourcebooks, to me, is the Thunderbolt 5L & 5LS where you can see a design fall from the pinnacle of Star League technology through the availability problems of the Succession Wars where producers of equipment.  To me it brings up some interesting questions of resource allocation as the tech-base is falling while production capabilities are being turned to radioactive dust and House lords are trying to field the largest & strongest forces possible.

For instance . . .

Intro tech equipment replacing SL tech-
Do you strip XLs and Star League weapons from light mechs to put them in heavies & assaults if you can?
     The last Talon was supposedly scrapped for parts in 2830, but by the middle of 1SW would you have replaced the ERPPCs on the models in your inventory with PPCs so you can keep giving Marauders 2R, Warhammer 6b/7A, Thug 11Eb, etc?

Do you strip SL weapons from rare/infrequent designs to give them to more common designs?
     Like taking a Gauss Rifle from a Excalibur to put it on a Highlander 732 or Cestus 6Y?

Or take FF armor off of light mechs so you can use it to patch up heavies and assaults that use FF armor?


 . . . and just realized, since the Awesome was a SL designed mech, where is the AWS-8Qb with ERPPCs?

What mechs would be candidates for the same treatment as the Thunderbolt showing the hybrid of a built design in the middle of the tech slide?  Are some out there that I am missing in another book?

[klarg1]

It's an interesting question. I take the Thunderbolt example as a case of declining production capability and quality, while a lot of what you are describing would probably have been handled as field repairs and refits as part of the regimental or divisional level command decision making.

In other words, I see the death of the last Talon as probably being done in the field by some regimental quartermaster as a way to keep a Warhammer or Thug in the field a little longer, rather than as an input into new factory production. In that context, I totally expect heavier units to be prioritized, simply as a result of human psychology.

I will admit that I have not checked the references on the Talon to validate my proposed headcanon, but it makes sense to me.

[MadCapellan]

What mechs would be candidates for the same treatment as the Thunderbolt showing the hybrid of a built design in the middle of the tech slide?  Are some out there that I am missing in another book?

Amongst the designs that originally used Star League technology only to be downgraded to maintain production are the ZEU-5S Zeus & the TBT-3C Trebuchet. Other exampled include numerous early variants of classic designs listed with the Royal units in TRO: 3075 & Historical: Operation Klondike & the downgraded 2750 designs found in TRO: 3039.

[Frabby]

What about the Crusader and its Star League-era missile loadout? In this case it's not so much the 'Mech as it is the ammunition that fell into lostech, but still...

[Colt Ward]

klarg, yeah I know I sort of devolved into 'what would you prioritize' but for instance . . . I would expect the Thunderbolt 5Sb that were still in the inventory of the CapCon would be converted to that weapons mix which would free up a single DHS, SL and ERPPC so the ERPPC & DHS could go to something like a Marauder or Warhammer.

MadCap . . . saying we should have a 4 series Treb?  I know nearly every major Introtech mech could be a candidate but I was thinking along the lines of something like the Valkyrie would have been a good candidate since it was produced on one planet in a high volume factory & designed for the SLDF.  Say the -QD was the SL design . . . and quite promptly during 1SW Artemis systems and the stations that make ES become limited, so the Valkyrie could have a intermediate variant that had FF armor and a MPL.  Until someone decided the armor & MPL were better used for the production of a heavy or assault.

Or perhaps as Frabby suggested, a Crusader 2R variant w/o Artemis on LRMs or Streak SRMs.

[mmmpi]

It may not be as straight forward though either.

There are entries in the TRO's that suggest a lot of mechs are designed to use specific equipment, and that it takes a redesign to effectively make use of a different model, even if it's the same weapon.  It might not be worth a commander's time to try and transfer and XL engine from a light to a heavy, or they might end up putting that scavenged gauss rifle on the rarer mech rather than the tougher one, simply because it fits better and they need it now.

[MadCapellan]

MadCap . . . saying we should have a 4 series Treb? 

I'm saying the original TBT-3C Trebuchet had Star League tech, & was downgraded during the Succession Wars to the TBT-5N. Ergo, an in-between step would be rational, especially considering how drastic of a downgrade it was (loss of XL engine & endo-steel).

[JPArbiter]

. . . and just realized, since the Awesome was a SL designed mech, where is the AWS-8Qb with ERPPCs?

The Awesome was probably considered... well awesome enough for the Royal Command.

[Daryk]

I always figured the Star League would go for the four PPC version with DHS...

[Cyc]

One TROs example - TRO3039 cites that Maltex stopped giving the Wyvern its endo steel chassis and CASE so they could keep manufacturing the Star League era Thug a little longer.

[Maingunnery]

I always figured the Star League would go for the four PPC version with DHS...

Snubs..... and Jump Jets....

[Greatclub]

I always figured the Star League would go for the four PPC version with DHS...

They didn't make that until ~3057. New toy syndrome meant that it got ER-PPC first, and then needed a bigger engine to support the heat sinks. Figure that the Awesome was designed as a brick for the regular forces and house militias.

For whatever reason (I'm unaware of any official fluff, make up your own) DHS weren't universally widespread during the star league, despite the fact that they should have been.

00000

Another mech that lost might have had a couple downgrade steps is the crusader.

[Garrand]

Maybe DHS were reserved for mechs that really needed them, & SHS were used for other models to keep costs down? After all even the SL has to adhere to a budget.

Damon.

[Firesprocket]

Maybe DHS were reserved for mechs that really needed them, & SHS were used for other models to keep costs down? After all even the SL has to adhere to a budget.

Its more likely that the production sites of the Awesome weren't located inside the Hegemony and they didn't feel obligated to share technical knowledge with factories in other states outside the Terran Hegemony that they couldn't more easily keep tabs on.  While Royals had access to the mech, it was meant for the SLDF regulars whose troopers probably didn't see the mech as being outdated.  The Thug 11E and Emperor 6A were already available to Royals.  Both can do nearly the same job as the Awesome and are far more effective inside 90 meters.  If they started refitting all the 8Qs to say a 9Q or 9M standard it would costs significantly more time and money then just updating something they have complete manufacturing capacity over.

[Daryk]

I think DHS are the single least expensive advanced tech there is (at least in terms of bang for buck).  Firesprocket has a more probable scenario.