WSP-1R Wasp (Recon Variant) (Star League Era)

[Giovanni Blasini]

Playing around with the idea of a Wasp fully-dedicated to recon and irregular warfare.  The SRM rack is dropped in favor of a remote sensor dispenser in the left leg, enough to drop 30 sensors.  Each side torso has a vehicular mine dispenser, allowing it to drop up to 4 hexes of mines.  A recon camera is mounted in the head, and a single medium laser is the sole remaining weapon.

Wasp WSP-1R

Mass: 20 tons
Chassis: 1A Type 3
Power Plant: Hermes 120
Cruising Speed: 64.8 kph
Maximum Speed: 97.2 kph
Jump Jets: Rawlings 52
     Jump Capacity: 180 meters
Armor: Durallex Light
Armament:
     1 Medium Laser
Manufacturer: Alliance Defenders Limited,Bordello Military Goods Inc,Diplass BattleMechs,Majesty Metals and Manufacturing,King Dumount Defense Facility,Defiance Industries,Pride of Granada Industries,Kali Yama Weapons Industries Inc,Orguss Industries,General Mechanics,Achernar Battlemechs,Lyran 'Mech Corporation,Amalgamated Sword and Steel,Rim Motors,Pinard Protectorates Limited,Interstellar Arms,Irian BattleMechs Unlimited,Hellespont 'Mech Works,Taurus Territorial Industries, Majesty Metals and Manufacturing
     Primary Factory: Alpheratz,Antwerp,Apollo,Canopus IV,Castile,Furillo,Granada,Kalidasa,Marcus,Mars,New Avalon,Nichol's Rest, Oldsmith,Otisberg,Perdition,Rockwellawan,Shiro III,Sian,Taurus,Tetski
Communication System: Duotech 65
Targeting & Tracking System: RadCom TXX
Introduction Year: 2600
Tech Rating/Availability: D/E-E-E-E
Cost: 1,723,440 C-bills


Type: Wasp
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard) 
Tonnage: 20
Battle Value: 388

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                    2
Engine                        120 Fusion              4
   Walking MP: 6
   Running MP: 9
   Jumping MP: 6
Heat Sink                     10                      0
Gyro                                                  2
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  48                      3

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         4     
     Center Torso            6         6     
     Center Torso (rear)               4     
     R/L Torso               5         6     
     R/L Torso (rear)                  2     
     R/L Arm                 3         4     
     R/L Leg                 4         5     


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo                   Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage   
Remote Sensors/Dispenser      LL        1        -       0.5   
Jump Jet                      LL        1        -       0.5   
2 Jump Jet                    CT        2        -       1.0   
3 Heat Sink                   RT        3        -       3.0   
Vehicular Mine Dispenser      RT        1        -       0.5   
Jump Jet                      RT        1        -       0.5   
3 Heat Sink                   LT        3        -       3.0   
Vehicular Mine Dispenser      LT        1        -       0.5   
Jump Jet                      LT        1        -       0.5   
Jump Jet                      RL        1        -       0.5   
Recon Camera                  HD        1        -       0.5   
Medium Laser                  RA        1        3       1.0   
   
Features the following design quirks: Easy to Maintain, Extended Torso Twist, Ubiquitous (Inner Sphere), Ubiquitous (Clans)

[Daryk]

I like it, but probably would have foregone the Mine Dispensers for more armor... :)

[Giovanni Blasini]

I like it, but probably would have foregone the Mine Dispensers for more armor... :)

I was actually considering TAG instead of the two mine dispensers, or a ton of communications gear.  As it stands right now, it can only track one of its own remote sensors - I figure the others are being tracked by a command truck or 'Mech.

[Hazard Pay]

I was actually considering TAG instead of the two mine dispensers,

That's what I was considering as well. Or go all in on Mine dispensers.

[Retry]

I'd probably do a TAG rather than the comms gear, so they have a chance to wipe out vulnerable targets of opportunity with the help of artillery.  Let the command vehicles survey the sensor pods, the Wasp pilot should focus on placing the sensors in good locations and not getting ambushed.

[Giovanni Blasini]

I'd probably do a TAG rather than the comms gear, so they have a chance to wipe out vulnerable targets of opportunity with the help of artillery.  Let the command vehicles survey the sensor pods, the Wasp pilot should focus on placing the sensors in good locations and not getting ambushed.

Is it worth running with both recon camera and TAG?

[Liam's Ghost]

I feel like the choice between TAG and communications equipment hinges on what you expect the mech to do.

TAG kinda feels like a system for a mech meant to go into harms way, since it depends on moving into the enemy's probable firing range. Communication equipment feels like it's meant to see harm coming and direct other people to get into it's way.

[Giovanni Blasini]

My original idea was for a ‘Mech that would only engage as a last resort, but would instead both provide recon data across a wide area for a defending force, to help detect their attackers, find their route of advance, and then potentially slow it by dropping mines along some of those approaches.  Since it wouldn’t engage unless forced to, the Wasp’s thin armor would be less of a liability, and the extra parts commonality for everything except weapons would hopefully keep costs down and help extend its logistics.  I didn’t really imagine it sticking around once the enemy was detected, since it didn’t really have the armor for that.

[Daryk]

For maximum 3025 goodness, I'd go with the Communications Equipment... :)

[Giovanni Blasini]

OK, let me rethink this whole thing a bit.  My idea was to build a Star League era (ie. around 2600) Wasp that would serve as a specialty platform for militia and defensive units, while maximizing how many parts it shared with standard militia Wasps.  The idea had been to build a scout version that wouldn't fight if it could avoid it, but instead would provide data to militia commanders on advancing enemy forces.

But...why stop there?  We know that, even into the Succession Wars era, there are often specialty lances or companies attached to larger units, like incendiary units equipped with Firestarters.  So, how about four variants that can work together?

Going back to my original idea, my Recon Wasp drops the vehicular mine dispensers, drops the medium laser for TAG, and drops the recon camera to instead mount a Beagle probe.  With a Beagle probe, TAG and remote sensor dispenser, it's not going to hurt anything directly, but will do a good job of feeding data to those that will.

Code: [Select]

Wasp WSP-1R

Mass: 20 tons
Chassis: 1A Type 3
Power Plant: Hermes 120
Cruising Speed: 64.8 kph
Maximum Speed: 97.2 kph
Jump Jets: Rawlings 52
     Jump Capacity: 180 meters
Armor: Durallex Light
Armament:
     1 TAG
Manufacturer: Alliance Defenders Limited,Bordello Military Goods Inc,Diplass BattleMechs,Majesty Metals and Manufacturing,King Dumount Defense Facility,Defiance Industries,Pride of Granada Industries,Kali Yama Weapons Industries Inc,Orguss Industries,General Mechanics,Achernar Battlemechs,Lyran 'Mech Corporation,Amalgamated Sword and Steel,Rim Motors,Pinard Protectorates Limited,Interstellar Arms,Irian BattleMechs Unlimited,Hellespont 'Mech Works,Taurus Territorial Industries, Majesty Metals and Manufacturing
     Primary Factory: Alpheratz,Antwerp,Apollo,Canopus IV,Castile,Furillo,Granada,Kalidasa,Marcus,Mars,New Avalon,Nichol's Rest, Oldsmith,Otisberg,Perdition,Rockwellawan,Shiro III,Sian,Taurus,Tetski
Communication System: Duotech 65
Targeting & Tracking System: RadCom TXX
Introduction Year: 2630
Tech Rating/Availability: E/E-F(F*)-D-D
Cost: 1,915,440 C-bills

Type: Wasp
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Tonnage: 20
Battle Value: 284

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                    2
Engine                        120 Fusion              4
Walking MP: 6
Running MP: 9
Jumping MP: 6
Heat Sink                     10                      0
Gyro                                                  2
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  48                      3

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         4     
     Center Torso            6         6     
     Center Torso (rear)               4     
     R/L Torso               5         6     
     R/L Torso (rear)                  2     
     R/L Arm                 3         4     
     R/L Leg                 4         5     


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo                   Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Remote Sensors/Dispenser      LL        1        -       0.5   
Jump Jet                      LL        1        -       0.5   
2 Jump Jet                    CT        2        -       1.0   
3 Heat Sink                   RT        3        -       3.0   
Jump Jet                      RT        1        -       0.5   
3 Heat Sink                   LT        3        -       3.0   
Jump Jet                      LT        1        -       0.5   
Active Probe                  LT        2        -       1.5   
Jump Jet                      RL        1        -       0.5   
TAG                           RA        1        0       1.0   

Features the following design quirks: Easy to Maintain, Extended Torso Twist, Ubiquitous (Inner Sphere), Ubiquitous (Clans)


Minelaying duties have now shifted to the WSP-1Y.  Unlike the WSP-1L, which mounts its SRM-4 in the arm, I chose to stick with mounting my missile launcher, a single LRM-5, in the leg, with the ammo remaining in the torso.  This leaves the right arm empty, but I liked the congruity.  Note the ammo type: "Thunder" (still called FASCAM) ammo allows it to lay far larger minefields than a pair of vehicular mine dispensers would, and while they're 5-point minefields per hex, it can lay up to 24 hexes worth of mines, rather than 2 per mine dispenser.

Code: [Select]

Wasp WSP-1Y

Mass: 20 tons
Chassis: 1A Type 3
Power Plant: Hermes 120
Cruising Speed: 64.8 kph
Maximum Speed: 97.2 kph
Jump Jets: Rawlings 52
     Jump Capacity: 180 meters
Armor: Durallex Light
Armament:
     1 LRM 5
Manufacturer: Alliance Defenders Limited,Bordello Military Goods Inc,Diplass BattleMechs,Majesty Metals and Manufacturing,King Dumount Defense Facility,Defiance Industries,Pride of Granada Industries,Kali Yama Weapons Industries Inc,Orguss Industries,General Mechanics,Achernar Battlemechs,Lyran 'Mech Corporation,Amalgamated Sword and Steel,Rim Motors,Pinard Protectorates Limited,Interstellar Arms,Irian BattleMechs Unlimited,Hellespont 'Mech Works,Taurus Territorial Industries, Majesty Metals and Manufacturing
     Primary Factory: Alpheratz,Antwerp,Apollo,Canopus IV,Castile,Furillo,Granada,Kalidasa,Marcus,Mars,New Avalon,Nichol's Rest, Oldsmith,Otisberg,Perdition,Rockwellawan,Shiro III,Sian,Taurus,Tetski
Communication System: Duotech 65
Targeting & Tracking System: RadCom TXX
Introduction Year: 2630
Tech Rating/Availability: E/D-X-D-D
Cost: 1,662,240 C-bills

Type: Wasp
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Tonnage: 20
Battle Value: 422

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                    2
Engine                        120 Fusion              4
Walking MP: 6
Running MP: 9
Jumping MP: 6
Heat Sink                     10                      0
Gyro                                                  2
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  48                      3

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         4     
     Center Torso            6         6     
     Center Torso (rear)               4     
     R/L Torso               5         6     
     R/L Torso (rear)                  2     
     R/L Arm                 3         4     
     R/L Leg                 4         5     


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo                  Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Jump Jet                     LL        1        -       0.5   
LRM 5                        LL        1        2       2.0   
2 Jump Jet                   CT        2        -       1.0   
3 Heat Sink                  RT        3        -       3.0   
Jump Jet                     RT        1        -       0.5   
3 Heat Sink                  LT        3        -       3.0   
Jump Jet                     LT        1        -       0.5   
LRM 5 Thunder Ammo (24)      LT        1        -       1.0   
Jump Jet                     RL        1        -       0.5   

Features the following design quirks: Easy to Maintain, Extended Torso Twist, Ubiquitous (Inner Sphere), Ubiquitous (Clans)


Along with our minelayer Wasp, I came up with an incendiary Wasp, swapping the WSP-1A's medium laser for a flamer.  I retained the SRM-2 in its usual place, but for ammo I went with Smoke SRMs.  I did briefly consider Infernos, but the idea is this is supposed to slow approach of enemy forces, and using a flamer is a much more controlled method of doing that than Infernos, and smoke SRMs are still handy to obscure sections of the battlefield.

Code: [Select]

Wasp WSP-1F

Mass: 20 tons
Chassis: 1A Type 3
Power Plant: Hermes 120
Cruising Speed: 64.8 kph
Maximum Speed: 97.2 kph
Jump Jets: Rawlings 52
     Jump Capacity: 180 meters
Armor: Durallex Light
Armament:
     1 SRM 2
     1 Flamer
Manufacturer: Alliance Defenders Limited,Bordello Military Goods Inc,Diplass BattleMechs,Majesty Metals and Manufacturing,King Dumount Defense Facility,Defiance Industries,Pride of Granada Industries,Kali Yama Weapons Industries Inc,Orguss Industries,General Mechanics,Achernar Battlemechs,Lyran 'Mech Corporation,Amalgamated Sword and Steel,Rim Motors,Pinard Protectorates Limited,Interstellar Arms,Irian BattleMechs Unlimited,Hellespont 'Mech Works,Taurus Territorial Industries, Majesty Metals and Manufacturing
     Primary Factory: Alpheratz,Antwerp,Apollo,Canopus IV,Castile,Furillo,Granada,Kalidasa,Marcus,Mars,New Avalon,Nichol's Rest, Oldsmith,Otisberg,Perdition,Rockwellawan,Shiro III,Sian,Taurus,Tetski
Communication System: Duotech 65
Targeting & Tracking System: RadCom TXX
Introduction Year: 2630
Tech Rating/Availability: D/D-E-D-D
Cost: 1,591,440 C-bills

Type: Wasp
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Advanced)
Tonnage: 20
Battle Value: 308

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                    2
Engine                        120 Fusion              4
Walking MP: 6
Running MP: 9
Jumping MP: 6
Heat Sink                     10                      0
Gyro                                                  2
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  48                      3

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         4     
     Center Torso            6         6     
     Center Torso (rear)               4     
     R/L Torso               5         6     
     R/L Torso (rear)                  2     
     R/L Arm                 3         4     
     R/L Leg                 4         5     


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo                Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Jump Jet                   LL        1        -       0.5   
SRM 2                      LL        1        2       1.0   
2 Jump Jet                 CT        2        -       1.0   
3 Heat Sink                RT        3        -       3.0   
Jump Jet                   RT        1        -       0.5   
3 Heat Sink                LT        3        -       3.0   
Jump Jet                   LT        1        -       0.5   
SRM 2 Smoke Ammo (50)      LT        1        -       1.0   
Jump Jet                   RL        1        -       0.5   
Flamer                     RA        1        3       1.0   

Features the following design quirks: Easy to Maintain, Extended Torso Twist, Ubiquitous (Inner Sphere), Ubiquitous (Clans)


Last up, speaking as we were of comm gear, I decided to concentrate that on a single Wasp.  Ripping out the SRM rack got me two tons for communications gear which, when added to the 1-ton equivalent combat vehicles and BattleMechs are considered to have standard, you hit the 3-ton threshold mark.  On its own, it can track three sensor pods, it can generate an ECCM field, and it's enough to grant you a +1 initiative bonus for your side.

Unfortunately, by itself, that's not enough to give it the ability to do a satellite uplink.  I'm throwing the Improved Communications quirk on there, and I'm sorely tempted to drop the medium laser entirely for more communications equipment too, but that would leave you completely unarmed, which is its own issue.  I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on that.

Code: [Select]

Wasp WSP-1C

Mass: 20 tons
Chassis: 1A Type 3
Power Plant: Hermes 120
Cruising Speed: 64.8 kph
Maximum Speed: 97.2 kph
Jump Jets: Rawlings 52
     Jump Capacity: 180 meters
Armor: Durallex Light
Armament:
     1 Medium Laser
Manufacturer: Alliance Defenders Limited,Bordello Military Goods Inc,Diplass BattleMechs,Majesty Metals and Manufacturing,King Dumount Defense Facility,Defiance Industries,Pride of Granada Industries,Kali Yama Weapons Industries Inc,Orguss Industries,General Mechanics,Achernar Battlemechs,Lyran 'Mech Corporation,Amalgamated Sword and Steel,Rim Motors,Pinard Protectorates Limited,Interstellar Arms,Irian BattleMechs Unlimited,Hellespont 'Mech Works,Taurus Territorial Industries, Majesty Metals and Manufacturing
     Primary Factory: Alpheratz,Antwerp,Apollo,Canopus IV,Castile,Furillo,Granada,Kalidasa,Marcus,Mars,New Avalon,Nichol's Rest, Oldsmith,Otisberg,Perdition,Rockwellawan,Shiro III,Sian,Taurus,Tetski
Communication System: Duotech 65
Targeting & Tracking System: RadCom TXX
Introduction Year: 2630
Tech Rating/Availability: D/C-E-D-D
Cost: 1,626,240 C-bills

Type: Wasp
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Tonnage: 20
Battle Value: 358

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                    2
Engine                        120 Fusion              4
Walking MP: 6
Running MP: 9
Jumping MP: 6
Heat Sink                     10                      0
Gyro                                                  2
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  48                      3

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         4     
     Center Torso            6         6     
     Center Torso (rear)               4     
     R/L Torso               5         6     
     R/L Torso (rear)                  2     
     R/L Arm                 3         4     
     R/L Leg                 4         5     


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo                            Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Jump Jet                               LL        1        -       0.5   
2 Jump Jet                             CT        2        -       1.0   
3 Heat Sink                            RT        3        -       3.0   
Jump Jet                               RT        1        -       0.5   
3 Heat Sink                            LT        3        -       3.0   
Jump Jet                               LT        1        -       0.5   
Communications Equipment (2 tons)      LT        1        -       2.0   
Jump Jet                               RL        1        -       0.5   
Medium Laser                           RA        1        3       1.0   

Features the following design quirks: Easy to Maintain, Extended Torso Twist, Ubiquitous (Inner Sphere), Ubiquitous (Clans), Improved Communications

Wow.  That ended up taking on a life of its own, didn't it?

[Daryk]

Regarding "completely unarmed", the first one already did that, so why not the last one?  Everyone knows the Stinger's superior anyway... ;D

[Giovanni Blasini]

Regarding "completely unarmed", the first one already did that, so why not the last one?  Everyone knows the Stinger's superior anyway... ;D

First one still had a medium laser.

[Daryk]

Ah, missed that... sorry!

[killfr3nzy]

From the model in the first post...

Drop the one-shot utility launchers for +1.5t arm to max it out. 3 points over, but maybe you can get a Cowl.
Put one of Laser or Camera in head, other in one leg.
Have a 2t HandHeld package;

A - 3x (mine layer and or remote sensors), 8pt arm.
B - 3x MG, 16.67 bursts each, 4pts arm.
C - Medium ChemLaser, 20 shots, 5pts arm.
Etc

Probably can't have carried Comm Gear in use, at least not adding on to installed Comm Gear.
If you could, would advise to ditch wasted 3pts armour on Mech and leave underweight to justify being able to carry 2t Comm Gear and 3pts armour on it.

[Giovanni Blasini]

From the model in the first post...

Drop the one-shot utility launchers for +1.5t arm to max it out. 3 points over, but maybe you can get a Cowl.
Put one of Laser or Camera in head, other in one leg.
Have a 2t HandHeld package;

A - 3x (mine layer and or remote sensors), 8pt arm.
B - 3x MG, 16.67 bursts each, 4pts arm.
C - Medium ChemLaser, 20 shots, 5pts arm.
Etc

Probably can't have carried Comm Gear in use, at least not adding on to installed Comm Gear.
If you could, would advise to ditch wasted 3pts armour on Mech and leave underweight to justify being able to carry 2t Comm Gear and 3pts armour on it.

That's not a bad idea.  And if you're doing it late enough to make handheld weapons a thing, you can carry a Magshot Gauss plus ammo as a weapon, too.

Code: [Select]

Wasp WSP-1Rkf3

Mass: 20 tons
Chassis: 1A Type 3
Power Plant: Hermes 120
Cruising Speed: 64.8 kph
Maximum Speed: 97.2 kph
Jump Jets: Rawlings 52
     Jump Capacity: 180 meters
Armor: Durallex Light
Armament:
     1 Medium Laser
Manufacturer: Alliance Defenders Limited,Bordello Military Goods Inc,Diplass BattleMechs,Majesty Metals and Manufacturing,King Dumount Defense Facility,Defiance Industries,Pride of Granada Industries,Kali Yama Weapons Industries Inc,Orguss Industries,General Mechanics,Achernar Battlemechs,Lyran 'Mech Corporation,Amalgamated Sword and Steel,Rim Motors,Pinard Protectorates Limited,Interstellar Arms,Irian BattleMechs Unlimited,Hellespont 'Mech Works,Taurus Territorial Industries, Majesty Metals and Manufacturing
     Primary Factory: Alpheratz,Antwerp,Apollo,Canopus IV,Castile,Furillo,Granada,Kalidasa,Marcus,Mars,New Avalon,Nichol's Rest, Oldsmith,Otisberg,Perdition,Rockwellawan,Shiro III,Sian,Taurus,Tetski
Communication System: Duotech 65
Targeting & Tracking System: RadCom TXX
Introduction Year: 3070
Tech Rating/Availability: D/X-X-D-D
Cost: 1,632,240 C-bills

Type: Wasp
Technology Base: Inner Sphere (Standard)
Tonnage: 20
Battle Value: 426

Equipment                                          Mass
Internal Structure                                    2
Engine                        120 Fusion              4
Walking MP: 6
Running MP: 9
Jumping MP: 6
Heat Sink                     10                      0
Gyro                                                  2
Cockpit                                               3
Armor Factor                  69                    4.5

                          Internal   Armor   
                          Structure  Value   
     Head                    3         9     
     Center Torso            6         8     
     Center Torso (rear)               4     
     R/L Torso               5         7     
     R/L Torso (rear)                  3     
     R/L Arm                 3         6     
     R/L Leg                 4         8     


Right Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand
Left Arm Actuators: Shoulder, Upper Arm, Lower Arm, Hand

Weapons
and Ammo              Location  Critical   Heat    Tonnage
Medium Laser             LL        1        3       1.0   
Jump Jet                 LL        1        -       0.5   
2 Jump Jet               CT        2        -       1.0   
3 Heat Sink              RT        3        -       3.0   
Jump Jet                 RT        1        -       0.5   
3 Heat Sink              LT        3        -       3.0   
Jump Jet                 LT        1        -       0.5   
Jump Jet                 RL        1        -       0.5   
Recon Camera             HD        1        -       0.5   

Features the following design quirks: Cowl, Easy to Maintain, Extended Torso Twist, Ubiquitous (Inner Sphere), Ubiquitous (Clans)


[killfr3nzy]

Are HandHelds really that late in the timeline? Thought it was one of the few things, like the Blazer, that was retconned in to a reasonable period.


I would go for an SRM-2 over the Magshots, considering you can add alternate ammo on a shot by shot bassis, unlike with installed weapons, but admittedly carrying the Magshot lets you get around its negative effects on the pilot too.