Author Topic: 3039 medium mech that can withstand punishment for training purposes?  (Read 2027 times)

kinwolf

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  A few weeks ago, I started teaching the base game to my 5 years old, and this last weekend he asked that the next game be with 2 mechs.  Why not, he already understand the basic of initiative(don't go too close to the enemy if you aren't the last to play) and using the terrain as protection.  But before going 2v2, I wanted to do a few 2v1 so I can teach him some basic tactics.  I would give him a medium of his choice from the starter box, and the locust.  As for myself, I'd like a robust mech that can hold it's ground against 2, but not a heavy that has too much firepower that he can cripple the opposition.  So I was more looking for medium mech that can hold it's ground against a med and a light, or a heavy mech that doesn't have too much firepower.

Any recommendation for such a mech, in the 3039 era?  Internal structure is not important as we are using the quick start rules.

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Probably a Wolverine.  Next to no heat, sure its undergunned but its a tough cookie.
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wolverine was my first thought too

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In 3025 terms, I'd probably go with a Wolverine or Phoenix Hawk variant, but I'm not sure what the "upgrades" bring to the Wolverine.  In either case, you've got the mobility and firepower to effectively deal with their Medium, and sufficient armor and/or modifiers to handle the stray hits in return.  Choosing a 4/6 will allow the opponent to dictate the range and control the engagement, which your own weapons selection may or may not be adequate to handle.  Taking a Heavy sort-of defeats the purpose of giving the new player a tonnage advantage to compensate for experience.

Empyrus

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You could go for a single Wolverine 6R. Limited firepower at distance, and the short range armament is mostly useful against damaged or thin armor. Sufficient mobility you can probably fight against two 'Mechs at once.
The 6M variant would be tougher and more powerful, if needed.

The Dragon 1N might work as well, limited armor for its mass, and firepower isn't really focused.

Choosing a 4/6 will allow the opponent to dictate the range and control the engagement, which your own weapons selection may or may not be adequate to handle.
And this makes me think that the Vindicator, Enforcer or Centurion might be good options. All move at 4/6(/4). The Vindy is tough but somewhat lacking in firepower department, the Enforcer has limited ammo and low rear armor but has strong firepower for its size, and the Centurion is somewhat lacking in the armor department though it is pretty dangerous otherwise.
« Last Edit: 01 April 2019, 09:59:31 by Empyrus »

JadeHellbringer

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It's a few tons too big to be a 'medium', but the Dragon might fit the bill. You get long-range muscle from the LRM and autocannon, a couple of lasers to handle the fight when it closes, remarkably tough build, and it's even quick on its toes (though without jump jets). The Grand Dragon might be a little too powerful for the fight, but a standard DRG-1N could be a lot of fun.
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Cannonshop

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  A few weeks ago, I started teaching the base game to my 5 years old, and this last weekend he asked that the next game be with 2 mechs.  Why not, he already understand the basic of initiative(don't go too close to the enemy if you aren't the last to play) and using the terrain as protection.  But before going 2v2, I wanted to do a few 2v1 so I can teach him some basic tactics.  I would give him a medium of his choice from the starter box, and the locust.  As for myself, I'd like a robust mech that can hold it's ground against 2, but not a heavy that has too much firepower that he can cripple the opposition.  So I was more looking for medium mech that can hold it's ground against a med and a light, or a heavy mech that doesn't have too much firepower.

Any recommendation for such a mech, in the 3039 era?  Internal structure is not important as we are using the quick start rules.

SHD-2H shadowhawk.  decent armor for the era, cool running, all the movement options but jumping isn't the go-to.  (5/8/3)  for opposition, a lone Wolverine.  Basically you're doing training, and having a deep heat-scale and having to track ammo actually helps develop your young player.  Learning to manage mobility and ammunition will help him significantly when you're ready to let him field heavier units.

Alternately, the GRF-1N is a terrific ride too, esp paired up with a Locust, since he can learn how to manage his support range, when to close, and how to coordinate.
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« Last Edit: 29 May 2019, 15:33:44 by Easy »

Elmoth

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ASs pointed above, if we are talking about basic box models, I would take a wolveine 6M or 6K. Or a thunderbolt (either the basic one or the Eridani one) if you want to hold up some more.

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Okay, I am not sure other posters followed the OP . . .

His kid is picking a med of his choice from the box.  He is asking for suggestions about what medium he takes against the kids mech pick to help teach tactics.  As such, all the mobility/heat scale/weapon range options would not apply as this is the punching bag.

IMO your solo mech would best be a Vindicator 1R, if you wanted him to learn to deal with jumping enemies, or go with a Hunchback 4H.  Both mechs will be slower than the box medium choices but have the armor and crits to absorb a lot of damage.  The Vindi is a bit more moble, has more range but has a bit more ammo to blow up.  The Hunchback will be able to absorb a lot of damage and since you reaching tactics, being lethal in a certain area will help teach caution.
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I'd recommend a BJ-1 myself.  Just powerful enough to be dangerous but there aren't any big guns that risk a headcap ending the fight too quickly.
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grimlock1

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I know you are asking for a medium, but if you want a punching bag that won't hit back, much, Charger or Banshee.
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You take the Wolverine,  he takes the Griffin & Locust.

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Apocal

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  A few weeks ago, I started teaching the base game to my 5 years old, and this last weekend he asked that the next game be with 2 mechs.  Why not, he already understand the basic of initiative(don't go too close to the enemy if you aren't the last to play) and using the terrain as protection.  But before going 2v2, I wanted to do a few 2v1 so I can teach him some basic tactics.  I would give him a medium of his choice from the starter box, and the locust.  As for myself, I'd like a robust mech that can hold it's ground against 2, but not a heavy that has too much firepower that he can cripple the opposition.  So I was more looking for medium mech that can hold it's ground against a med and a light, or a heavy mech that doesn't have too much firepower.

Any recommendation for such a mech, in the 3039 era?  Internal structure is not important as we are using the quick start rules.

HBK-4G/-4P/-4SP. It is basically armored like an introtech heavy (f.e. the Warhammer or Catapult, and not much less than the Marauder) and packs a respectable punch in any variant.

kinwolf

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Thanks everyone.  Based on tips given above, the Wolverine 6-M seems a good pick.  And I might try the Hunchback when he gets too good.  :)

kinwolf

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A follow up:  Last week we played 2 vs 1.  I gave my son the Griffin 1-D and Locust LCT-1S while I grabbed the Wolverine WVR-6K.  Well, the wolverine lost it's left arm, but ended up victorious.  Of course, my son being 5 years old, there wasn't much tactic to his approach, so the Locust went down quickly.

So, this last weekend, I decided to teach him some tactics, and I told him *I* would take the Griffin and Locust, and he would get the Wolverine.  I also told him I would win for sure, but that this was a teaching game so he could be better with 2 'mech next weekend.  He agreed.  What I didn't tell him is that I also printed a Battlemaster BLR-1D that I would give to him to play after roasting his Wolverine, so that he would still have fun(got the idea after reading an AAR of a grinder game from Adepticon.  Loved the concept!)

So, I printed the wolverine 6-M for him, and the Griffin 1S for me, then I browsed the different locust variants from the RS:SS pdf.  I looked only at the armament while comparing the 6 variants (you'll see why this little fact is important later on...)  Finally I settled on the LCT-1M, who was clearly superior with it's 2 LRM5 + 1ML, and I printed the Battlemaster which I hid under the Locust sheet.

And the game begins: The field of battle was the moon battlemap.  I started right away moving the LCT at full speed in the valleys, always ending under full cover and at +4 while the Griffin used it's jump jet to approach the Wolverine from the other way, telling my boy how this running helped the LCT and how making the bigger threat approach from another angle also helped the LCT because he would have to face the Griffin first while the LCt arrive from behind.    Sadly, while getting very close to the WVR, there was a small miscalculation on my part.  I ended the LCT move behind a lvl 3 elevation, prepping to finally attack the next round,  but I thought I was 7 hexes away from the WVR, but I was actually 6 hexes away only... and my son saw that, and jumped right on top of that elevation, towering the LCT and fired everything he had.  The Med lasers all missed, but his large laser hit.  So he rolls for location... 7!  I tell him he got a lucky shot, but he won't get another shot like that.  And then I grab the sheet to apply the 8 damages and run away the next round,  when I see... WTH!! 2 armor points only in the torso!!! The whole mech has 13 armor points total!!!(we play with the beginners rules, no internal structure)  Now I see why this was the only LCT with LRM... Sheesh!  Locust down, the WVR does a little dance, then turn his attention on the Griffin... 

To resume the many other rounds:  Dad:  Bad rolls.  Son: Crazy good rolls.  The griffin eventually lost his right torso and only had it's LRM5 left, while the Wolverine was damaged, but evenly, so not close to losing any limbs at all.  As such, I surrendered.  I took a look at the hidden Battlemaster sheet under the LCT's and sighted.  Seeing the face of my victorious son was worth the ego crushing though.  :P  Humility is learned at all age! 

P.S. Thanks to Highlander00, who offered to grab the battlemaps at Adepticon and then ship them from within Canada since I couldn't afford the shipping cost from catalyst warehouse  :thumbsup: After our game, my boy played on the reverse side of the moon map(grasslands + base) for the rest of the afternoon.  They-are-gorgeous!

P.P.S.  There is something seriously wrong with the Catalyst Store shipping cost calculator.  I was looking at Campaign Operation and the shipping was listed at... 47$!!!(nope, there wasn't anything else in the basket)  I sent them am email with a screenshot of that. I've never paid that much even for heavy wargames bought in the US.  I finally got it from amazon.com instead with 7$US shipping.
« Last Edit: 15 April 2019, 21:02:37 by kinwolf »

MoneyLovinOgre4Hire

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The Catalyst Shipping Calculator depends on what shipping option is chosen.  If it was charging $45 for shipping it was set to one of the pricier options and you could gotten a much cheaper price by selecting a different option.
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kinwolf

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You'd think that, but 47$ was for USPS. It was 119 for fedex...(as I mentioned, I kept a screenshot that I sent them so much it wasn't normal)
« Last Edit: 16 April 2019, 04:50:31 by kinwolf »

Sigil

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CN9-AL Centurion.  50-tons, maximum armor, and an energy-heavy loadout.  With the CT-mounted medium lasers, this things is still shooting at you if you're lucky enough to bring it down.

GamerDad

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I decided to teach him some tactics, and I told him *I* would take the Griffin and Locust, and he would get the Wolverine.  I also told him I would win for sure

I thought I was 7 hexes away from the WVR, but I was actually 6 hexes away only... and my son saw that, and jumped right on top of that elevation, towering the LCT and fired everything he had. 

Sounds like Dad got a bit cocky and underestimated his 5yo!  >:D :thumbsup:
Him recognizing that opportunity and capitalizing on that.... at his age.... looks like you'll have a good many fights in your future!

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The Med lasers all missed, but his large laser hit.  So he rolls for location... 7!  I tell him he got a lucky shot, but he won't get another shot like that.  And then I grab the sheet to apply the 8 damages and run away the next round,  when I see... WTH!! 2 armor points only in the torso!!! The whole mech has 13 armor points total!!!(we play with the beginners rules, no internal structure) 

Internal structure wouldn't have even been enough to save it.  ;)
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BairdEC

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If you don't mind using proxies or buying metal miniatures, the Chameleon is the quintessential training mech.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Chameleon

kinwolf

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Internal structure wouldn't have even been enough to save it.  ;)

Indeed, wow.  :o

 

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