Idle curiosity: What would you bid...

[Liam's Ghost]

The situation: Some fairly normal world, circa 3051. The Clans have invaded and the Inner Sphere defends.

The defenders are a company of inner sphere mechs:
Command Lance:
Warhammer 6R
Hatchetman 3F
Wasp 1A
Other Wasp 1A

Support Lance:
Shadow Hawk 2H
Rifleman 3N
More Rifleman 3N
Flea 4

Fire Lance:
Centurion 9-A
Longbow OW
Whitworth 1
Ostscout 7J

Imagine yourself as a clan commander (whichever invading clan you'd like). What would you bid to take on such a force.

(this should not be thought of as a competition, where you need to beat the bids of other posters. Purely a thought exercise. What would you imagine a reasonable clan force to fight this company would be?)

[Daryk]

A Supernova might do it... a Binary if not...

[worktroll]

An assault lance should be able to do it, given the Clan tech advantage. Faster movers like

* War Hawk prime
* Timber Wolf Prime
* More Timber Wolf, mebbe an S
* Executioner C
* Summoner D

The slowest is 4/6 with two 5/8/5 jumpers. Plenty of range & the odd pulse laser. Plan on the enemy breaking zell early on. Lucky headshots from the ERPPCs will make a difference. Defeat in detail.

Is there a reason why the Spheroids are organised in a somewhat funky way? Just good old-school lance builds, like the Rifleman in the Recon lance?

W.

[Tai Dai Cultist]

A Battle Star of omnis should be quite sufficient to defeat a company of SW era mechs piloted by Mechwarriors unfamiliar with Clan tech & tactics.

Specifics?  Call it Mad Cat, Ryoken x2, Black Hawk, Puma

[Daryk]

*snip*
Is there a reason why the Spheroids are organised in a somewhat funky way? Just good old-school lance builds, like the Rifleman in the Recon lance?

It doesn't look that funky to me... all the LRM equipped 'mechs are together, all the AC/5 'mechs are together (both lances with integral scouts), and the Command lance has two 'mechs with 10 point weapons, plus a pair of Wasps for recon or fast reaction.

[Tyler Jorgensson]

Nova Binary

Timber Wolf
Mad Dog
Mad Dog
Fire Moth
Fire Moth

24x Elementals

Timber Wolf tears apart the Support Lance

Mad Dogs counter battery fire the Fire Lance

Fire Moths drop Elementals to harass the Command Lance and tear apart the Wasps.

Remaining Elementals harass everything in sight including the Riflemen and ahachetman

[monbvol]

Hmmm...

I smell a trap but I would think a good mobile star of Medium to Heavy omnis could take it out.

It is 3051 so I don't have any specialty ammunition to worry about from the AC-5s or the LRMs really.

My over confident hyper aggressive Smoke Jaguar bid would be Timber Wolf A, Summoner Prime, 2 x Stormcrow B, and a Nova Prime for fun/mopping up.

[Kojak]

Honestly, I'd say a trio of Timber Wolf As would be plenty. Overkill, even.

[Greatclub]

A heavy star might be able to do it. Not without losses, but doable. A pair of medium stars would be overkill unless you had really poor mech choices.

Looking at the RATs from ER:3052, I'd say the wolves, bears and jaguars could pull it off, maybe. Not a Jade Falcon star, they like their Loki too much for their own good.

00000

That's a company full of deathtraps, stiffened by a couple decent choices. Where did it come from?

[Liam's Ghost]

It's made up of minis that I happened to have on hand and assembled. The result felt pretty succession wars to me.

[Greatclub]

It's made up of minis that I happened to have on hand and assembled. The result felt pretty succession wars to me.

I as well. That's a 'whatever we could get our hands on' force if I've ever seen one.

[Scotty]

Honestly, I'd say a trio of Timber Wolf As would be plenty. Overkill, even.

Five point hits can add up pretty fast, especially when they hit medium range about the same time you do.

[Greywind]

One limitation that might be required is defining which clan is doing the assault.

[Syzyx]

For myself, I'd push the envelope a bit with:

Incubus
Viper Prime
2 points Flamer equipped Elementals
2 Batu B aerofighters

[Colt Ward]

Are we wargaming this or tabletop'ing?

Because I have recently been doing some of the Wolf invasion battles through MM with 3 klick x 3 klick battle areas with portions of Wolf elite clusters against regular AFFC forces.

Garg Prime Veh Test
Garg D, Garg Prime, TWolf C, Adder D vs  mixed weight of 8 mechs and two veh companies
     Wolves lost Garg D (side torso & CT engine crit) while the AFFC had a Stalker survive, 2 mechs and 2 vehs flee.  The Stalker got bypassed, too slow

Binary Supernova engagement
5 Gargs, 4 TW, 1 Warhawk, & 10 Ele (canon unit) vs mixed weight 36 mechs & 2 veh companies (https://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=64929.0)
   Wolves lost 3 Elemental points while AFFC is down about two lances of mechs and at least two lances of vehs, and a company of moderately damaged mechs

So if you are wargaming, there will be plenty of room and if its the Clans IMO they are going to take the most open path to the objective- pasture land, wheat fields, whatever.  The Clan force would have the room to maneuver to keep range open though the IS force would have the ability to push the Clan force against a terrain feature.  If table top . . . are we talking 3x2 maps?  3x3?  More than likely the IS is going to be able to close up and pin the Clans to a artificial 'wall' and will change some of the configs I would want.

Wargaming?
veteran Nova
Stormcrow Prime, Gargoyle C, Ice Ferret A, Linebacker A, Adder B & 5 Elemental (L) points

Tabletop?
veteran Supernova Binary
Gargoyle C, Stormcrow C, Timberwolf C, Adder D, Ice Ferret D & 5 Elemental (L) points and a Elemental star

Edit- I meant Garg Cs for the two forces rather than the Bs I initially said

[Skyth]

It's made up of minis that I happened to have on hand and assembled. The result felt pretty succession wars to me.

Looks suspiciously like the Black Widow company from the old WD sourcebook...

[Liam's Ghost]

Just to be clear, there's no "gotcha" moment here. It's not secretly a super elite company, or comguards loaded down with royal battlemechs, wolf dragoons being wolf dragoons, or even a company of cloned Morgan Kells all with phantom mech skill.  :D It's just a company I put together from the minis I had immediately on hand. The composition I think fits well enough that they could be Fedcom, Combine, Mercenaries, or Rasalhague, but there's nothing particularly special about them.

EDIT: Unless you count the fact that the Shadow Hawk is the most heavily armored unit of the bunch, of course.  ;)

[Colt Ward]

Sure, I just went with two different sets of playstyles/circumstances . . . now I am going to have to test it against the Bot though . . .

[Daryk]

*snip*
EDIT: Unless you count the fact that the Shadow Hawk is the most heavily armored unit of the bunch, of course.  ;)

That's... just WRONG... on SO many levels...  :D

[Ruger]

That's... just WRONG... on SO many levels...  :D

Actually, doesn't the Warhammer mount a half ton more armor?

Ruger

[Tai Dai Cultist]

Just to be clear, there's no "gotcha" moment here. It's not secretly a super elite company, or comguards loaded down with royal battlemechs, wolf dragoons being wolf dragoons, or even a company of cloned Morgan Kells all with phantom mech skill.  :D It's just a company I put together from the minis I had immediately on hand. The composition I think fits well enough that they could be Fedcom, Combine, Mercenaries, or Rasalhague, but there's nothing particularly special about them.

Even the Hatchetman's presence doesn't preclude a Kuritan force. Given its importance as being the first newly designed chassis in centuries, the Dracs went about reverse-engineering it and were producing a few of their own by the time the War of 3039 rolled around, presumably gaining even more through large-scale battlefield exchange.

EDIT: Unless you count the fact that the Shadow Hawk is the most heavily armored unit of the bunch, of course.  ;)

It didn't escape my notice.  In my bid, the Mad Cat is the biggest mech on both sides of the battle.

[Liam's Ghost]

Actually, doesn't the Warhammer mount a half ton more armor?

Ruger

You're right. For some reason I thought it was the other way around.

[Colt Ward]

Well . . . I put them in MM, and the BV was interesting . . . I gave the IS force 7 reg pilots in lighter machines and vet in the heavier ones.  But even then, the Clan force was over BV so I had to adjust down with the vet pilots.

Ice Ferret A (2/3)
Linebacker A (2/3)
Adder B (3/4)
Pouncer C (2/3)
and a single Ele (L) @ 3/4

Gives me a Wolf command star . . . fighting on 64x64 hex map.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Question: are Morale or Forced Withdraw rules in effect?

[Colt Ward]

I played with Forced Withdraw, and the previously described zell

Ice Ferret lost the LBX arm, side torso & CT engine for engine death
Linebacker took a LRM20 TAC from the Longbow to hit the gyro x2 and engine
Adder took a engine TAC from a Wasp but survived
Pouncer lost the UAC/10 arm (with 4 rounds left) and a gyro TAC
One Elemental died and two were at 0 armor

IS force wiped out

Playing hide & seek among the canyons & hills helped the IS with their number of jumpers.

[jimdigris]

Just to be different:  three blasts from a naval laser. >:D

[Sartris]

Just to be different:  three blasts from a naval laser. >:D

i found the jaguar

[Daryk]

The Jaguar, or the Snow Raven?  ^-^

[massey]

The situation: Some fairly normal world, circa 3051. The Clans have invaded and the Inner Sphere defends.

The defenders are a company of inner sphere mechs:
Command Lance:
Warhammer 6R
Hatchetman 3F
Wasp 1A
Other Wasp 1A

Support Lance:
Shadow Hawk 2H
Rifleman 3N
More Rifleman 3N
Flea 4

Fire Lance:
Centurion 9-A
Longbow OW
Whitworth 1
Ostscout 7J

Imagine yourself as a clan commander (whichever invading clan you'd like). What would you bid to take on such a force.

(this should not be thought of as a competition, where you need to beat the bids of other posters. Purely a thought exercise. What would you imagine a reasonable clan force to fight this company would be?)

I'd go with a light/medium Clan Star with Elemental support.

Dasher Prime
Fenris Prime
Dragonfly Prime
Ryoken Prime
Black Hawk Prime

Each starts out carrying a point of Elementals.  I think that would do it.

The Dasher, Dragonfly, and the Fenris are going to haul butt towards the Fire Lance.  They'll avoid LOS with anything until they get behind whatever cover the Fire Lance is using to block sight to themselves.  If the Ostscout moves to spot for indirect fire, the Dragonfly will break off and engage with pulse lasers.  It can go anywhere the Ostscout can go, and it will have decent chances to hit.  The Ostscout can't really do anything in retaliation.  Anyway, once the three fast movers get into the IS mech's backfield, they'll drop Elementals and then stay inside the LRM minimum range.  All of them are capable of a +4 movement mod pretty easily, and so they really only have to worry about the Whitworth's 3 mediums and the Centurion's AC-10.  Even those will have a very hard time hitting.  The Elementals will empty their SRMs and then swarm anybody who can't get away.  The Fenris will dance with the Centurion, tearing him apart with his ER PPC.

Meanwhile, the Black Hawk and the Ryoken will break to the other edge of the mapsheet, moving towards the rest of the forces, keeping to-hit mods high, with the Ryoken sniping at ER Large Laser range.  There'll be a lot of "move forward, then back up" action as they try to stay in the 12-15 hex range.  The goal will be to target the Riflemen and hopefully put some holes in the glass cannons.  If any fast movers come in (Wasps, Shadow Hawk, Flea), the Black Hawk will nuke them.

Once either the Riflemen or the Fire Lance falls, it's time to move in on the rest of the company.  If the IS side got some lucky rolls, we might have lost the Dasher (it doesn't take many lucky rolls for that to happen).  The Black Hawk is the killer, going after the Warhammer.  He's going to move in, dropping Elementals somewhere close to the battle so they can provide support fire, then it's 7 ER Mediums a turn.  The Ryoken will keep moving and will fire at whatever gives him the lowest modifier.  I'll take 6s to hit a Hatchetman who didn't think he had to move over 8s against a Shadow Hawk who is making a nuisance of himself.

When the Dasher/Dragonfly/Fenris group arrives, they'll go after anyone unengaged.  The Fenris is looking for quick kills at medium range, while the other two are angling for back shots.

I should lose most of the Elementals and have at least two mechs still operational by the end.

[Kojak]

Five point hits can add up pretty fast, especially when they hit medium range about the same time you do.

Pretty sure fifteen-point hits add up faster, when they're coming from beyond the range of most the IS company's weapons, and they're hitting targets with tissue-thin armor. A Timbie trio could easily kite most of this company to pieces, assuming we're not talking IS elites or a phone-booth-sized map or something.