Author Topic: MOTW: CDR-** Cuirass  (Read 3620 times)

BrianDavion

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MOTW: CDR-** Cuirass
« on: 22 January 2023, 21:28:43 »
Mech of the Week: Cuirass


Hello everyone and welcome back to Mech of the week. The last article I did was the Saggitire, and appropriately enough this week's MOTW article features another proud Robinson Mechworks product

The Cuirass first appeared in Mechwarrior: Age of Destruction, for Mechwarrior Dark age, as the mech Aaron Sandoval piloted, sometime in early 2005, however, we'd not see it's Battletech states and fluff until TRO: 3085 supplemental in 2010.  As it appeared in the digital supplement for TRO 3085 it's something of a sleeper mech, and admittingly like many of the other mechs in it, isn't perhaps as well known as it should be.  Which in someways is a pity as the design's a nice looking one and fills a decent niche in a AFFS flavored force. With that out of the way let's look at the mech in more detail shall we?


First introduced in 3086, shortly after the Jihad ended, by Robinson Mechworks, the Cuirass, was yet another mech built on the same reliable frame as the Sentry and Watchman, (except the Cuirass is endosteel ) massing in at 40 tons and designed to fill a light Cavalry role. The design is fluffed as being a direct challenger/competitor to the Legionnaire that gained fame during the Battles of New Avalon during the Jihad. With an Engine Propelling the Cuirass to 97 KPH the Cuirass is fast but slightly slower then is considered "ideal" for a light cavalry design (at least if you accept TRO 3085 Supplementary fluff on what's ideal) slower then the competing Legionnaire but making up for that with Jump jets, an XL gyro is also used to save on weight.
For weaponry the Curiass mounts a RAC 5, ER Medium laser and a sword giving it respectable firepower for a 40 tonner, however the mech only mounts single heat sinks, which means a Cuirass pilot is going to have to manage his heat carefully, still it's mostly doable, as each RAC 5 shot is 1 heat, the ER ML is 5 and the jump jets are 6 heat, over all either not firing the RAC 5, or simply not firing the ER ML, when jumping should keep your heat down fine.
The sword feels largely pretty useless, not gonna lie, I've never been a huge fan of swords in general, you basically trade hitting on the punch table for a -2 to hit and an additional one damage. not really worth the two tons that could have been used a number of other ways, but leaving that aside, the Cuirass doesn't feel like a mech I'd want a sword on anyway, it's speed combined with the RAC 5's reasonably good range makes me feel like it should keep it's distance and pour that fire on, still the sword might come in handy if a fast light mech makes the mistake of getting into melee range with you. Over all, not the best mech, but if I random rolled one I think I could use it. Over all I'd say the mech is best used as a "heavy light mech" deployed with a scout lance. it's not going to win any contests but it'll bully light mechs well.

TRO 3145's New Tech New Unit's section gave us two new variants of the Cuirass,

The first of these new variants, introduced in 3119 is intended specifically as a spotter for C3 lances, employing a boosted C3 slave, the Spotter Cuirass is designed to take full advantage of a Boosted C3 network, and these are almost certainly seeing heavy deployment alongside the new Fenneic with the Boosted C3M,  For weaponry is packs 4 Magshot Gauss rifles supplied with a single ton of ammo, 2 Medium X Pulse Lasers, an ER small lasers, and the sword is upgraded to a Vibroblade, all cooled with 10 Double Heat Sinks, over all this is actually a really neat variant, the Magshots single ton of ammo seems a bit.. off, but that's about ten turns fire for each of them, and frankly given this mechs role requires it to get nice and close, that's probably longer then it'll last. over all though I'd say this is a pretty decent mech for what it is. get in close, lay some hurt on, and cackle as your lance mates drop hyper accurate fire power at your target from long range. The Mag shots are an odd choice, but clearly the designer was trying to match the "multi barreled look of the art work in  a new way. It's quirky and I kind of love it.

Lastly 3134 saw the introduction of the 2X model Cuirass, the Vibroblade upgrade to the sword remains, but the techs at Robinson Mechworks realized that the FedSuns had a bit of a problem, the Dracs had clued into the whole "Davions love auto canons" meme, and started packing Ballistic reinforced armor into an awful lot of their mechs, employing it on a whole wack of mechs. This lead to the decision to replace the RAC 5 with an energy weapon, in this case a heavy PPC, an odd choice considering Robinson Mechworks was clearly capable of building mechs with Clan ER PPCs, but I suppose they had limited stocks and wanted to keep using them on the Black Knight and other larger mechs.
Still the end result is a 6/9/6 machine with a Heavy PPC, a vibroblade... and a Re-engineered Small Laser.. ok, I've come around to accepting RE lasers as actually pretty viable weapons, but if you're going to bother with one you need to go into them a bit heavy, I mean... what's the Cuirass going to do with a single RE Small laser? Tickle a Shiro? But over all, it's not a bad variant, and anything that moves this fast with a headcapper has a definite place.
Sadly this design couldn't prevent the fall of Robinson to the Draconious Combine in 3144, and during the 5 years of occupation the design spread to the DCMS.
Per the MUL the Cuirass is Fedsuns exclusive during the early and late Republic eras, becoming available to both the FedSuns and Combine from the Dark age on.
« Last Edit: 22 March 2024, 12:52:56 by BrianDavion »
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mbear

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Re: MOTW: CDR-** Cuirass
« Reply #1 on: 23 January 2023, 09:23:25 »
Every time I see a Sword, I think it's there more as an advertising feature than an effective weapon. I think the Mech-builders are trying to build an association with the "knights of old" in the mind of the viewer. (In any case the Sword is much better than the Mace.)

The 2X using a Heavy PPC is kind of odd. I'd have thought a Large Re-Engineered Laser would be a good choice there, but against hardened armor I guess the damage is nearly the same.
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Re: MOTW: CDR-** Cuirass
« Reply #2 on: 23 January 2023, 10:27:42 »
Swords can work well on faster mechs like this. As mentioned, they're good when you get into melee range with another fast unit. When opposing fast units face each other the to-hit numbers can get really high really fast, so that -2 is a huge difference, and unlike kicking a miss with a sword can't knock you down(EXTREMELY bad for a cavalry unit). Pulse lasers are also good for this, but in the case of the Cuirass at least the heat would be a serious problem.

Against a slower target, multiple Cuirasses can work together to bring it down, with one hitting the target with RAC fire while others run in for aimed sword strikes - going high for quicker kills via back armor or the head, or going low if you're trying to capture the pilot.
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Empyrus

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Re: MOTW: CDR-** Cuirass
« Reply #3 on: 23 January 2023, 17:56:14 »
Style-wise, i'm inclined toward the Legionnaire or the Blade as a RAC/5 'Mech. Not because of the single heat sinks, i don't mind them really though they are in principle stupid for an advanced 'Mech built by an advanced nation. Just simple looks, never cared for the Cuirass' looks.

Incidentally the Blade is an obvious comparison. A bit lighter, but faster and similar armament sans the sword, though lacking jump capability. Curiously the BV is nigh identical (for the baseline -XL model). Brian noted on Discord that the Blade is at risk of losing all firepower if it loses its arm, and that the jump jets give it versatility, something i know i've always overlooked in the Cuirass.

I do agree with Brian about the -2BC3's quirkiness. Multi-magshot is funny way to match the autocannon's looks.

The -2X is definitively more refined 'Mech overall, even if it lacks the raw damage potential than the original. And lacks the dakka-factor. The REL is waste here but at least it keeps BV low and is still functional when at melee range. It could be worse, it could have one-shot SRM pack or something like that.

MotWs for less commonly talked about 'Mechs are always interesting as they actually make one think about their potential good sides. Though i can't say i'm likely to field the Cuirass anytime soon even so.

Thanks to Brian for the article! Interesting read.

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Re: MOTW: CDR-** Cuirass
« Reply #4 on: 24 January 2023, 16:11:28 »
So the Black Hawk was a definite upgrade for Aaron . . .

Do we have any idea which the Dracs might have prioritized when they took over the factory?  The Boosted C3 would drop into their forces easily IMO, letting it spot for their existing string of basic C3Ms.

The Small REL will work for BA, which the Dracs are also altering the armor on . . . further, the best place to put that sword would be into the back of a enemy mech, so that REL is going to help burn in the armor.
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BrianDavion

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Re: MOTW: CDR-** Cuirass
« Reply #5 on: 24 January 2023, 22:02:09 »
So the Black Hawk was a definite upgrade for Aaron . . .

Do we have any idea which the Dracs might have prioritized when they took over the factory?  The Boosted C3 would drop into their forces easily IMO, letting it spot for their existing string of basic C3Ms.

The Small REL will work for BA, which the Dracs are also altering the armor on . . . further, the best place to put that sword would be into the back of a enemy mech, so that REL is going to help burn in the armor.

hard to say, per Recguide 29 the new Saggy varient njotes that the dracs stripped the Saggy assembly line of "unique technology" to send back to the IIT, this would seem to be, looking at the 14D, RE lasers, and boosted C3, this to me suggests that the combine may in fact struggle with Boosted C3 (which is actually kind of impressive if so given BC3 is like 80 years old at this point) 
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Re: MOTW: CDR-** Cuirass
« Reply #6 on: 24 January 2023, 22:32:42 »
hard to say, per Recguide 29 the new Saggy varient njotes that the dracs stripped the Saggy assembly line of "unique technology" to send back to the IIT, this would seem to be, looking at the 14D, RE lasers, and boosted C3, this to me suggests that the combine may in fact struggle with Boosted C3 (which is actually kind of impressive if so given BC3 is like 80 years old at this point)

I don’t think it was the boosted C3. They have a couple masters, atleast two being home grown ones. And 8 slaves as either refits or local production.

I always kinda liked this mech, but even from the wizkids game I knew it wasn’t very good.
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Re: MOTW: CDR-** Cuirass
« Reply #7 on: 30 January 2023, 18:08:16 »
hard to say, per Recguide 29 the new Saggy varient njotes that the dracs stripped the Saggy assembly line of "unique technology" to send back to the IIT, this would seem to be, looking at the 14D, RE lasers, and boosted C3, this to me suggests that the combine may in fact struggle with Boosted C3 (which is actually kind of impressive if so given BC3 is like 80 years old at this point)
That variant of the Saggy also has Radical Heat Sinks that were removed as well.

Back to the topic at hand, this is a 'Mech I have always been pretty disappointed in. In MWDA not only was it a unique character 'Mech, that was the only time that sculpt showed up. Often times you'd see a unit be a unique figure, but there'd also be non-unique versions. The MWDA stats on the 'Mech weren't very good and that has translated over to similar TW stats. I don't mind quirky units, I just struggle finding a good use for this one.
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XenopusTex

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Re: MOTW: CDR-** Cuirass
« Reply #8 on: 31 January 2023, 23:45:29 »
Another 'mech with a wasteful melee weapon.  Of course, in a setting where the maximum range of weapons is very short, and likelihood of hitting at max range is extremely low (or impossible), I guess the 'mech version of a banzai charge could work.  21st century armoured warfare ... 1Km range... likely point 'n' shoot at least in the vertical plane ... 32nd century armoured warfare ... how do you reach 1Km range?  Given that 32nd century combatants have a hard time hitting a barn from inside of the barn, I guess the sword works. 

Also, with laughable heat dissipation.  With Davion producing junk like this, they deserved the beating they got.  Let's see here... has ammo, has -10 max heat dissipation.  With the Cappies - apply plasma, inferno gel, fire, and other incendiaries with maximum vigor and just wait for the thing to blow up in a bit.  It is unfathomable why, when one of your enemies simply loves to bathe opponents in various species of fire, such a 'mech is designed. 

The other variants seem to be stop-gap builds in a dying empire.  A heavy PPC on a 40 ton 'mech, oof and the tonnage waster small REL, ergh.  The magshots are poor imitations of APGR it seems, while the X-pulsers are heat hogs and the IS ERSL is ick as it cannot even deal with infantry.  At least the HPPC version can do real damage in a shot, while the magshot edition has to be content tickling the enemy to death.  However, the HPPC and RAC-5 versions commit the cardinal sin of having a relatively heavy weapon stuck on a pretty light frame (see Hollander for more details).

To rely on a strategy of your opponent not blowing you to bits on approach so that you can slash at them with your sword seems like a bad plan.  It's an even worse plan with the APGR version due to no significant range.  Feels like a tacked on unit just to have a melee 'mech at 40 tons for Davion cause, you know, swords and all (see also the Drac fetish for swords and "swords" stylized to look like other oriental melee weapons).  I think I'll pass.

BrianDavion

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Re: MOTW: CDR-** Cuirass
« Reply #9 on: 01 February 2023, 01:48:29 »
ok, 1st of all, the magshot pre-dates the APGR. secondly, of course the APGR is better it's a clan design
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Re: MOTW: CDR-** Cuirass
« Reply #10 on: 07 February 2023, 10:43:18 »
I always found the original to be completely underwhelming. SHS in 3085, on a mech whose armament wasn’t, like, 2 Gauss rifles? Seriously? A sword on a forty tonner, and no TSM? Terrible.  The variants are definite improvements, though I’ve never cared for boosted c3, and MagShots are kind of niche.  The newest variant is actually pretty decent.  Might use that one sometime if I get the chance.
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Re: MOTW: CDR-** Cuirass
« Reply #11 on: 07 February 2023, 12:34:34 »
Hey, gotta do something with the warehouses full of stacks of SHS.

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Re: MOTW: CDR-** Cuirass
« Reply #12 on: 07 February 2023, 13:02:21 »
Hey, gotta do something with the warehouses full of stacks of SHS.

Vehicles . . . Dropships . . . sell to mercs on the used market . . . should not really be that many besides regularly produced ones for replacements on those two types that still use them.
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Re: MOTW: CDR-** Cuirass
« Reply #13 on: 08 February 2023, 19:54:25 »
Yeah, after the end of the Jihad there's absolutely no reason that anything other than a budget mech being built for a Periphery group that can't adequately produce Star League or better tech (obviously not the case for the Cuirass) or a mech that's too crit-packed for DHS to fit (also not the cast for the Cuirass).
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BrianDavion

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Re: MOTW: CDR-** Cuirass
« Reply #14 on: 09 February 2023, 06:22:16 »
It should be noted the IC excuse is that the chassis is too compact for double heat sinks.

I should also note that's rubbish. just move the single heatsink to the arm with the sword, there's eneugh room there.
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mbear

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Re: MOTW: CDR-** Cuirass
« Reply #15 on: 09 February 2023, 07:28:36 »
I always found the original to be completely underwhelming. SHS in 3085, on a mech whose armament wasn’t, like, 2 Gauss rifles? Seriously? A sword on a forty tonner, and no TSM? Terrible.  The variants are definite improvements, though I’ve never cared for boosted c3, and MagShots are kind of niche.  The newest variant is actually pretty decent.  Might use that one sometime if I get the chance.

I agree with your assessment, the initial one was underwhelming. But I can understand how the use of SHS and Sword w/o TSM can happen in universe. It was introduced right after the Jihad, when everyone was scrambling to get 'Mechs into the field and rebuild their industrial base.

"We've got a bunch of single heat sinks and some prototype Watchman chassis here in the closet."
"Great! But we don't have guns."
"Slap a sword on it and get it out to the militia!"
"But it's going to suck!"
"Who cares? We get money into the company and get the production lines running again."

Not saying that's what happened, but it does explain this suboptimal design.
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Re: MOTW: CDR-** Cuirass
« Reply #16 on: 09 February 2023, 11:09:42 »
Another 'mech with a wasteful melee weapon. Snip

Counterpoint; Hitting Giant Robots with your own Giant Robot's cool sword is always cool, even when it's a suboptimal build for the job.

BrianDavion

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Re: MOTW: CDR-** Cuirass
« Reply #17 on: 10 February 2023, 02:02:22 »
I agree with your assessment, the initial one was underwhelming. But I can understand how the use of SHS and Sword w/o TSM can happen in universe. It was introduced right after the Jihad, when everyone was scrambling to get 'Mechs into the field and rebuild their industrial base.

"We've got a bunch of single heat sinks and some prototype Watchman chassis here in the closet."
"Great! But we don't have guns."
"Slap a sword on it and get it out to the militia!"
"But it's going to suck!"
"Who cares? We get money into the company and get the production lines running again."

Not saying that's what happened, but it does explain this suboptimal design.


I always saw the sword as a reaction to the SHS. "we want more stuff to do damage but we on;y have single ehat sinks" "....... a sword won't use any heat!"
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Re: MOTW: CDR-** Cuirass
« Reply #18 on: 10 February 2023, 10:37:13 »
Aren't vibro swords not as good actual swords due to lack of positive modifiers?
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Re: MOTW: CDR-** Cuirass
« Reply #19 on: 10 February 2023, 11:11:55 »
Depends on which size you're using and the size of the mech.  Since they do fixed damage rather than damage based on the mech's mass, they're more effective on lighter mechs.
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Re: MOTW: CDR-** Cuirass
« Reply #20 on: 10 February 2023, 15:26:40 »
Depends on which size you're using and the size of the mech.  Since they do fixed damage rather than damage based on the mech's mass, they're more effective on lighter mechs.
What about TSM? Won't not work like that for a Vibrosword equipped mech?
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GuyIncognito

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Re: MOTW: CDR-** Cuirass
« Reply #21 on: 10 February 2023, 15:29:34 »
TSM doesn't augment Vibroblade damage unfortunately.

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Re: MOTW: CDR-** Cuirass
« Reply #22 on: 12 February 2023, 04:05:00 »
The Cuirass makes sense as a cost effective successor to the Watchman and Sentry, the RAC5 had just proven itself in the Jihad, and the Fed Suns have a history with melee weapons. It makes sense at every point, though connecting those points gives you an odd picture. But for filling holes in recon and cavalry units, a Cuirass is still preferable to a Wasp salvaged from the Succesion Wars.
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Re: MOTW: CDR-** Cuirass
« Reply #23 on: 12 February 2023, 08:42:02 »
What about TSM? Won't not work like that for a Vibrosword equipped mech?
TSM doesn't augment Vibroblade damage unfortunately.

TSM does work for inactive vibroblades, but even then their damage is capped at 2x their active damage (normally inactive vibroblades are capped at their active damage, prevents heavier units exploiting them as lighter swords).

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Re: MOTW: CDR-** Cuirass
« Reply #24 on: 12 February 2023, 10:10:09 »
Swords can work well on faster mechs like this. As mentioned, they're good when you get into melee range with another fast unit. When opposing fast units face each other the to-hit numbers can get really high really fast, so that -2 is a huge difference, and unlike kicking a miss with a sword can't knock you down(EXTREMELY bad for a cavalry unit).

This.

Reflective armour gets very popular with fast designs as well, so the sword can be of use indeed.


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Re: MOTW: CDR-** Cuirass
« Reply #25 on: 14 February 2023, 22:48:53 »
This.

Reflective armour gets very popular with fast designs as well, so the sword can be of use indeed.
Only issue is Reflective Armor is fragile in melee combat. Its not ideal with a Mech with sword to me.
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Re: MOTW: CDR-** Cuirass
« Reply #26 on: 14 February 2023, 23:06:09 »
Only issue is Reflective Armor is fragile in melee combat. Its not ideal with a Mech with sword to me.

Martius was pointing out that the Cuirass's sword makes it more effective against fast-moving mechs with Reflective armor.  None of the Cuirass variants have Reflective armor.
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Re: MOTW: CDR-** Cuirass
« Reply #27 on: 15 February 2023, 05:58:44 »
people tend to view the Cuirass through the lens of a main line combatant, and I tend to agree it's bad for that. what the Cuirass is designed to do is bully light mechs, or act as the "heavier command mech" of a light recon lance. Don't use it like a shadowhawk or Griffon, use it like a old school Phawk.
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