Author Topic: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier  (Read 19996 times)

mbear

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
« Reply #30 on: 17 May 2016, 07:14:06 »
Basically this is just an example of what you can do when you utilize Clantech for everything but the Chassis, and save weight that way :)
Sort of like the Gray Death Surat suit from XTRO:Republic I?
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False Son

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
« Reply #31 on: 17 May 2016, 08:39:56 »
The storyline of Terra sort of annoys me, but I think the unstat'd Police variant could've been interesting.

I'm curious as to why.

It hits all the points to me.  Cynically mixed tech, Stone, stashed away for unknown purposes lending some additional cred to the viability of Fortress Republic.
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sillybrit

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
« Reply #32 on: 17 May 2016, 11:34:58 »
I have vague recollections of discussing the Phantom suits with jymset, including the Police stats, but I can't recall why we've held off on them. There may be a reason, so I'll limit this purely to an analysis of the design.

There's not really much that can be said about the Terra. In terms of mobility, it's as vanilla for a medium as you can get: 1 ground, 3 jump, move along, move along, nothing to see here. Its armor is top tier alongside the Elemental and Amazon, but lacks any bonuses; no stealth, no damage adjustment. At one time the armor would have been a major feature, but this is the post-Dark Age era, and even 10-point mediums are edging towards meh.

The APGR is the APGR is the APGR. It's the battle armor weapon par excellence, and is the armament you'll use 80% of the time. The ER laser you'll use 15% of the time, for those occasions where you don't care about infantry and value 2 points of extra damage over 3 hexes less range; perhaps ideal for urban or forest knife fights with little or no PBI presence, or if you're a fan of swarming.

The pulse laser instead swaps accuracy for range. The APGR will match its accuracy at certain ranges, but otherwise it might find use if you're using really crap troops or you're fighting stealthy foes or have some other reason to worry about target numbers. The recoilless rifle does nothing the APGR or pulse laser can't do or better, while the ER laser swaps damage for anti-infantry capability. Only filthy hipsters use the recoilless rifle.

The armament needs more cowbell, and while I understand the inclusion of the recoilless rifle, its slot would have been better occupied by a heavy flamer, leaving no useless mouths. The Bearhunter would have also been ideal, giving the suit a token dubious weapon, but one that's still Clantech with a definable role and signature flavor. A LBX would be possible, but seriously overegging the pudding in my opinion, since it would have given the Terra every decent Clan gun 400kg or less.

Without the Amazon and without Clantech becoming so common, it's possible to be a lot more enthused about the Terra. I also dislike that the Terra cannot be matched by a purely Clantech suit due to one component 'invented' by the Inner Sphere nearly a century ago in universe. I've railed against the mixed tech situation vis-à-vis chassis weights in numerous BAotW threads, so I'm not going to repeat that here. For me, the Terra isn't an example of a superb battlesuit design, it's a superb example of what is wrong with mixed tech.

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UnLimiTeD

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
« Reply #33 on: 17 May 2016, 12:02:32 »
I don't get that one.
Given that in-universe, a battlesuit wouldn't immediately expire in water, and closing gaps will have certain advantages in hostile environments, I have absolutely no problem with Clan suits incorporating Harjel and IS suits... not. Doesn't the clan suit have a medkit, too?
Sure, there are a few suits now that are plainly better mixed tech than pure clan equivalents (On the CBT battlefield!), but so are certain IS weapons in very specific niches. Well, they have the niche all to themselves. The timeline progresses, clanspec can't stay plainly better forever.
Would you feel better if a damaged IS suit would take bonus damage from gas attacks or need less Infernos to kill? Then it'd have a rules expression and still make no real difference.

I would assume that, if the difference in detailed capabilities stays, suits munching it up like that would be very rare in the future as Harjel obviously does have logistic and combat advantages often enough, for the suits and troopers you're willing to invest in clan spec weapons or armour.
I'd be a lot more annoyed at the very existence of APGRs.

Edit: Rereading my post it sounds slightly cranky. I will revisit it upon my headache subsiding. Edit2: That doesn't seem to happen any time soon. Apparently no one took offence anyways.
« Last Edit: 22 May 2016, 04:16:22 by UnLimiTeD »
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mbear

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
« Reply #34 on: 17 May 2016, 12:50:21 »
I have absolutely no problem with Clan suits incorporating Harjel and IS suits... not. Doesn't the clan suit have a medkit, too?
Sure, there are a few suits now that are plainly better mixed tech than pure clan equivalents (On the CBT battlefield!), but so are certain IS weapons in very specific niches. Well, they have the niche all to themselves. The timeline progresses, clanspec can't stay plainly better forever.
Would you feel better if a damaged IS suit would take bonus damage from gas attacks or need less Infernos to kill? Then it'd have a rules expression and still make no real difference.

How about the Clan spec chassis "trooper" dot being replaced by two dots? That way the Harjel/medkit of the Clan suit has more of an effect, but it's not game breaking. (The first dot means the trooper is only mostly dead. )
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sillybrit

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
« Reply #35 on: 17 May 2016, 13:20:47 »
How about the Clan spec chassis "trooper" dot being replaced by two dots? That way the Harjel/medkit of the Clan suit has more of an effect, but it's not game breaking. (The first dot means the trooper is only mostly dead. )

As a house ruled method to give Clan chassis a clear and constant advantage instead of just niche advantages, that would be workable. As a canon fix, in my opinion it would impact the in-game stats of too many designs, changing their performance, which may not be acceptable to all players.

Given my druthers, I'd change the chassis masses for both Clan and IS, make Harjel a separate component (but one that the Clans always add to their suits) and adjust IS armor masses to compensate for the chassis change. The construction stats change for most suits, but their in-game stats do not.

Maelwys

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
« Reply #36 on: 17 May 2016, 16:39:58 »
I'm curious as to why.

It hits all the points to me.  Cynically mixed tech, Stone, stashed away for unknown purposes lending some additional cred to the viability of Fortress Republic.

Its mostly the "See, the WoB was so bad assed that they were producing Clantech, aren't they such a big threat" followed by "But not in any appreciable form that really matters." It just seems to fit a pattern of the Jihad that rather meh'd me. "Look how scary the WoB is, rargh!" followed by "but not really."

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
« Reply #37 on: 17 May 2016, 16:50:22 »
Given my druthers, I'd change the chassis masses for both Clan and IS, make Harjel a separate component (but one that the Clans always add to their suits) and adjust IS armor masses to compensate for the chassis change. The construction stats change for most suits, but their in-game stats do not.
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Colt Ward

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
« Reply #38 on: 20 May 2016, 21:47:38 »
See I just wonder why Warden Wolf and Nova Cat BA were not using Magshots back in the FCCW days . . . especially since the Void NC uses the MagShot, coming out before the APGR.
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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
« Reply #39 on: 21 May 2016, 00:42:40 »
Probably because of the critical requirements, which means that Medium BA can't use it in the arm if it has a modular mount.

Not to mention as a FedSuns design, why would the Wolves and Nova Cats have access to it?

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
« Reply #40 on: 21 May 2016, 00:50:17 »
Well, the Nova Cats had access to it when building the Void, or refitting their portion of the Voids produced.

Throw in that IIRC the pro-Vic side of the FCCW had access to the system- like the ARDC forces.  From what I can find it takes up the same number of slots as the APGR.  I could also see the Raging Horde wanting it before the APGR became available.
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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
« Reply #41 on: 21 May 2016, 01:53:26 »
Check TechManual. Unless there's been errata, the Magshot takes up 3 slots, and the APGR takes up 2 slots. That's why you don't see any of the IS Standard-like suits (Standard, Cavalier, Raiden, etc) mounting Magshots, because they can't fit it in an arm that has a modular mount.

The Void (Nova Cat) debuts after the Jihad, when the factional tech restriction was loosened quite a bit. Combine it being a "FedSuns" product, along with it being too big to fit in the modular mount on an Elemental suit, and its not surprising that the MagShot wasn't used by Clans, since it would require a whole new design to use. When the Void came around, they were able to fit the MagShot into the LA because there was no modular mount there, and it was hardwired in, much like on the Infiltrator Mk II.

Colt Ward

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
« Reply #42 on: 21 May 2016, 02:06:33 »
What I found on Sarna said 2 but . . . I pulled out the BA maker Excel sheet and it says 3 as well.

A whole new design?  Eh, just a new arm.  Like I said, pretty sure it was deployed with the ARDC and as the Warden Wolves were against Katherine . . .

Anyway, Purifiers can be fun . . . I also think they are one of the few MWDA minis that are not too much larger than the TT version.
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sillybrit

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
« Reply #43 on: 21 May 2016, 02:33:26 »
There's been no errata, the Magshot is still 3 slots. Sarna just needs to fact check a little more.

As per IO, the Magshot became commonly available in 3060, the year after it entered production in the Suns. It could have appeared on a lot more non-Suns battlesuit designs, but it doesn't because reasons.

Maelwys

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
« Reply #44 on: 21 May 2016, 03:00:33 »
Sarna is fine in this case. The stats he's looking at are for the Battlemech version. Though I'm not sure that the BA stats are on Sarna. :)

One thing that I'm rather curious about, and the Purifier Terra sort of brought it back to mind...If there aren't factories for the armor (after all, the writeup makes sure to explain it every other way as well), what if the idea of Clans selling to the WoB was right?

Might be a fun plotline if it came out that the Diamond Sharks were selling to the WoB during the Jihad.

sillybrit

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
« Reply #45 on: 21 May 2016, 08:41:59 »
Sarna is fine in this case. The stats he's looking at are for the Battlemech version. Though I'm not sure that the BA stats are on Sarna. :)

No, Sarna is incorrect. There's a separate page for the battle armor version of the Magshot and it currently states 2 slots.

Quote
One thing that I'm rather curious about, and the Purifier Terra sort of brought it back to mind...If there aren't factories for the armor (after all, the writeup makes sure to explain it every other way as well), what if the idea of Clans selling to the WoB was right?

No idea, the fluff gives enough wiggle room, but seems to lean towards the existence of factories given the note about the G17 as well. The production facility could have been workshop-sized given how few of the two mixed suits were encountered, and a planet is a big place to hide such a facility.

jklantern

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
« Reply #46 on: 21 May 2016, 08:44:55 »
Since I don't know jack about Battle Armor, my judgment on what is a good and not good battle armor is hazy.  That said, this is one suit that, conceptually, I always liked the idea of, and it's probably my single unit the WoB ever came out with (again, conceptually), along with one of my favorite Battle Armor Designs.  Unfortunately, I'm neither a huge Republic or WoB fan, so yeah...
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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
« Reply #47 on: 21 May 2016, 09:16:23 »
WoB HPGs not silly enough for jklantern?


If i had to choose one favorite medium (IS) battle armor, i'd probably say the Purifier. I really find this suit interesting and unique. ER Small Laser, a rare weapon for BAs. The first user of Mimetic Armor.  Combine with interesting looks and oddly sub-par armor, it is just somehow very appealing.
« Last Edit: 21 May 2016, 09:18:16 by Empyrus »

Colt Ward

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
« Reply #48 on: 21 May 2016, 10:27:00 »
. . . with one of my favorite Battle Armor Designs.  Unfortunately, I'm neither a huge Republic or WoB fan, so yeah...

Then good news for you!  The suit seems to be everywhere in the 3140s!  IIRC the Operation Hammerfall novel arc it had a few suits showing up in both Lyran and proto-state League hands.  I think even some of the single world entities had Purifiers!  I know the Republic's micro/pirate factions had it, which also means it ended back up their sponsor's hands.  I think the Capellans had it when they were introduced.

Just checked . . . every micro-faction except Steel Wolves had it.  Houses Davion and Liao had the Purifier along with the Clans Jade Falcon and Crusader Wolves.  The Spirit Cats had minis of it twice and so did mercenaries.

To me this means it is still in production, perhaps widespread production.
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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
« Reply #49 on: 21 May 2016, 11:28:34 »
Curious that a Blakist battle armor would spread so far. Though perhaps that it was seen as useful enough (Mimetic armor) and lacking the extremely negative reputation of Manei Domini equipment were enough to keep it production.
And of course, the fact the Republic adopted it (they probably captured factories on Terra that produced it) may have prompted everyone to think "this is fine, not evil".

Of course, Master Unit List makes no mention of the armor's availability post-Jihad, just "to be announced", so it could be spread around in very limited quantities.

EDIT Per FM3145 RATs, the Purifier is only available for the Republic. Of course, the RATS are not comprehensive. This makes me wonder if the Purifiers in hands of non-Republic nations were due to False-Flag ops...
« Last Edit: 21 May 2016, 11:31:47 by Empyrus »

mbear

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Re: Battle Armor of the Week - Purifier
« Reply #50 on: 23 May 2016, 08:00:38 »
No, Sarna is incorrect. There's a separate page for the battle armor version of the Magshot and it currently states 2 slots.

That's been fixed now to show the correct 3 slots.
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