Master Unit List (MUL) Feedback Thread IV - READ THE FIRST POST

[Empyrus]

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3700/annihilator-anh-1a

Is the Annihilator 1A perhaps accidentally being available to the Clans from Clan Invasion era onward until its extinction? One would imagine they stick to using the Annihilator C/C2, especially since it seems the old Star League tech variants went extinct by late Succession Wars. TRO3050U says the 1A is found among mercenaries but is rare.

[Sartris]

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4380/issus-2

Per the story "Trial of Possession" beginning on page 70 of Total Warfare, would the Issus 2 be available any earlier than the 3066 the MUL shows? I believe I have the first printing. I haven't verified it in any other printing, assuming canonicity isn't an issue.

Under investigation. The story lists the Issus 2 as a prototype, which can make a difference

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3700/annihilator-anh-1a

Is the Annihilator 1A perhaps accidentally being available to the Clans from Clan Invasion era onward until its extinction? One would imagine they stick to using the Annihilator C/C2, especially since it seems the old Star League tech variants went extinct by late Succession Wars. TRO3050U says the 1A is found among mercenaries but is rare.

Also looking into this

[jasonf]

Here are a few random errata:

Prowler MTV (sealed) -- I think Comstar should only have this in LSW era? It's standard rules tech and TRO3085-Suppl. (p. 114) suggests its custom made by Mitchell Vehicles for the Explorer Corps

Devastator Tank and Schreck PPC (introtech versions) -- should Comstar have access to these (in addition to existing factions) in ESW and LSW eras? Both are produced at Aldis-Terra and exported during the LSW era.

Mauna Kea (standard) ship -- looks like it's missing availability for IS General and Periphery General for LSW eras (has it before and after, and broad access is consistent with TRO3039 fluff).

Star Dagger S-2B fighter -- I think rules should = Introductory, according to FR:DCMS 2765 (p.20)

Ailette Zero-G exoskeleton (Sqd4) -- should the Taurians also have access? Produced by Taurus TI on Taurus, according to TR:VA

Tunnel Rat IV Combat Exoskeleton -- this looks to be a duplicate MUL entry, relative to the Tunnel Rat IV Mining Exoskeleton entries. It's only mentioned in passing in the General Motors entry in Masters & Minions (p. 42), and its description is consistent with the TR:VA description of the Tunnel Rat IV on p. 229, which is covered by the Mining Exoskeleton MUL entries.

Lancelot LNC25-01sl -- I think this one fell through the cracks with the following earlier errata. Rules level should be "Standard" as with the others (see ER: 2750, p. 136)

Changed tech level of CRB-27sl from advanced to standard

addendum: this error affected a handful of other units from ER:2750
PXH-1Kk
WVE-5Nsl
DV-6Md
TDR-5Sd
BLR-1Gd

[Sartris]

the prowler definitely shouldn't be general during the LSW with those fancy MPLs. Lancelot also changed.

looking into the rest

[Adacas]

Consultation.
  Without putting pressure on anything, is there an estimated date for when they will update the MUL with the Last Sharpell? Or will they make a larger Update adding the Rec Guide 33?

[Sartris]

http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/4380/issus-2

Per the story "Trial of Possession" beginning on page 70 of Total Warfare, would the Issus 2 be available any earlier than the 3066 the MUL shows? I believe I have the first printing. I haven't verified it in any other printing, assuming canonicity isn't an issue.

So there’s a bit of a calculus that goes with units like this. The MUL date for established units like the mentioned Issus 2 is the production date. The Issue that appears in the short story was using pre production versions of both the ATM and heavy laser and is named as a prototype and isn’t considered the debut in which it became usable by clan toumans.

Note that this is different than one of the prototypes in one of the XTROs. That receives fluff and stats. It is also differentiated from a mentioned prototype that has distinctly different stats enumerated in the text.

It’s a fine line we take on a case by case basis. Thanks for the inquiry as we hadn’t considered this particular case yet

[jasonf]

I think RG33 created some errata...

Issue: RG33 lists new Partisan ADT (fuel cell) tanks as fighting for the AFFS on Markesan on 3072 (p. 8), but it also says it was only produced on Nanking, which was under Wobbie control since July 3071 (Total Chaos, p. 235). Somehow I feel like the Wobbies would not be keen on exporting to the AFFS, nor the AFFS keen on ordering Wobbie tanks to their super-secret base, at this time.

Suggestion: Move the Partisan ADT (cell) Intro date to 3070 or 3071.


 

[Sartris]

Yup. We’ve determined an alternate solution.

[Sartris]

http://masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/3700/annihilator-anh-1a

Is the Annihilator 1A perhaps accidentally being available to the Clans from Clan Invasion era onward until its extinction? One would imagine they stick to using the Annihilator C/C2, especially since it seems the old Star League tech variants went extinct by late Succession Wars. TRO3050U says the 1A is found among mercenaries but is rare.

turns out the 1A's availability was determined before Klondike was ever published and it was decided to spread it since the homeworlds needed annihilators. now that we have the C/C2, the 1A could probably use a trim.

[pokefan548]

Was Andurien meant to lose the Sabre SB-27 going from DA to ilClan? Or did it accidentally get cleared with the other League splinters when the League reconstituted?

[Sartris]

sure seems that way. fixed

[FlyingScoots]

Not sure if this was posted already, but...
The AS cards for aerospace fighters on MUL seem to incorrectly list 1/4MV as effects of engine crits, while AS Commander's Edition pg. 184 states that that's for small craft and dropships.
Fighters, according to the same page, lose half their thrust off one hit, and go to thrust 0 and crash/shut down off the second engine hit.
The new blank fighter cards in the back of the AS CE list engine crits as "1/2 MV" in accordance with the above.

[Baldur Mekorig]

About the J.Edgar (Kurita). The only two factions with acess to it are the DC, and for some reason, the TC, but there is nothing in the entry that suggest that. Could it be a mistake?

[Sartris]

About the J.Edgar (Kurita). The only two factions with acess to it are the DC, and for some reason, the TC, but there is nothing in the entry that suggest that. Could it be a mistake?

A mistake and a very old one as far as we can tell. Nice catch

[Baldur Mekorig]

A mistake and a very old one as far as we can tell. Nice catch

Cool!

[pokefan548]

Harasser (LFE) seems to have its speed and TMM copied over from other RG33 variants. Should be 36"h with TMM 5. All other stats, including PV, are correct.

[theothersarah]

Kage Light Battle Armor (DEST) incorrectly has LECM as an ability. This variant's equipment is simply one small laser per trooper (rather than on a squad support mount) with nothing else.

[Sartris]

Harasser (LFE) seems to have its speed and TMM copied over from other RG33 variants. Should be 36"h with TMM 5. All other stats, including PV, are correct.

bleh. thought i fixed that one. corrected.

Kage Light Battle Armor (DEST) incorrectly has LECM as an ability. This variant's equipment is simply one small laser per trooper (rather than on a squad support mount) with nothing else.

must have gotten the [ECM]'s abilities copied over. removed.

[Kerfuffin(925)]

Loki Mk II (Hel) D

Has the JMPS1 special with no jump movement listed.

[Sartris]

cool, another one i swear i caught already.

the boy now flies

[Sartris]

Devastator Tank and Schreck PPC (introtech versions) -- should Comstar have access to these (in addition to existing factions) in ESW and LSW eras? Both are produced at Aldis-Terra and exported during the LSW era.

yes

Mauna Kea (standard) ship -- looks like it's missing availability for IS General and Periphery General for LSW eras (has it before and after, and broad access is consistent with TRO3039 fluff).

The LRM and LRT variants have ISGen, PGen, and Mercs. No reason the base model shouldn't. There isn't otherwise a good way to explain how it proliferated so quickly during the Clan Invasion when production never picked back up.

Star Dagger S-2B fighter -- I think rules should = Introductory, according to FR:DCMS 2765 (p.20)

ya

Ailette Zero-G exoskeleton (Sqd4) -- should the Taurians also have access? Produced by Taurus TI on Taurus, according to TR:VA

yes, from the Jihad and on.

Tunnel Rat IV Combat Exoskeleton -- this looks to be a duplicate MUL entry, relative to the Tunnel Rat IV Mining Exoskeleton entries. It's only mentioned in passing in the General Motors entry in Masters & Minions (p. 42), and its description is consistent with the TR:VA description of the Tunnel Rat IV on p. 229, which is covered by the Mining Exoskeleton MUL entries.

Bit of missed cleanup. we didn't get the sheets for the Tunnel Rat IV until 2014. By then, the placeholder entry from M&M had long been lost in the wash. It's been put to rest.

[Sartris]

At least three Clan units with Machine Gun Arrays (e.g. Lobo 3, Pariah C, Piranha 4) appear to have BVs as if their clan MGA bvs were calculated with the 0.67 multiplier for Inner Sphere MGAs listed in Tech Manual (~p.317) rather than the 0.1 multiplier listed for Clan MGAs in Tac Ops (p.197).

Here's an example calc of the Pariah C from Mordel (https://mordel.net/tro.php?a=cbm) that has a final value (2,227)  matching the MUL (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5021/pariah-septicemia-c).

Note the MGA BVs in Model's calc are each 13.4 (5x4x0.67) rather than 2 (5x4x0.1) .

Other Clan MGA-wielding units may be affected -- the three listed are the first and only ones I've checked.

Alternatively, perhaps a TO typo?

I'm going back and dredging some missed items like this one.

There is a discrepancy between MML's BVs for clan MGA and what we have on the MUL (it potentially affects eleven units). We'll check it out.

[Sartris]

At least three Clan units with Machine Gun Arrays (e.g. Lobo 3, Pariah C, Piranha 4) appear to have BVs as if their clan MGA bvs were calculated with the 0.67 multiplier for Inner Sphere MGAs listed in Tech Manual (~p.317) rather than the 0.1 multiplier listed for Clan MGAs in Tac Ops (p.197).

Here's an example calc of the Pariah C from Mordel (https://mordel.net/tro.php?a=cbm) that has a final value (2,227)  matching the MUL (http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/5021/pariah-septicemia-c).

Note the MGA BVs in Model's calc are each 13.4 (5x4x0.67) rather than 2 (5x4x0.1) .

Other Clan MGA-wielding units may be affected -- the three listed are the first and only ones I've checked.

Alternatively, perhaps a TO typo?

Errata from the third printing of TM standardizes the MGA's BV multiplier at .67 for both IS and Clan (see errata doc pg 34). TO:AUE needs to be corrected

[Praetorian Hard]

I apologize if this is the wrong venue for this but why doesn’t the Free Worlds League have access to the Harasser (LFE) in IlClan? I would think it’d have availability just like it did in DA and with the other harasser variants.

[Sartris]

accidental omission

[Sartris]

GOL-1H Goliath is not listed as available to SLDF or Rim Worlds in the SL era.

SCP-1N Scorpion as well.

This is odd, since both were built for the SLDF, their factory world, Oliver, was in the Terran Hegemony at the time, and at they appear on some relevant RAT's from the era.

Added for SLDF Regular, Terran Alliance, and Rim World (Terran Corps).

The Vigilant Corvette is not listed for the Free Worlds League in the MUL in Either the Star League or Early Succession Wars eras. There was the FWLS Samhain, which fought in the first Succession war.
As stated in First Succession War, p. 56, "Corey and Wazan"


Not sure if this counts, but the Taurians also had a New Syrtis Carrier during the Star League era that is not listed on the MUL.
As stated in Historical: Reunification War, pp. 67–68, (and possibly p 200).

reminder to myself to look at this again

I was looking for the Generic Expandable Services Vehicle from Handbook House Davion on the MUL. It looks like they had an entry at one point, as MegaMekLab gives it the ID number 4207. Do these still need to be added, or have they been added previously and now removed or folded into something else?

Readded. I knew something weird had happened because my personal MML image set had the GESV art.

Agrotera AGT-1A's listed BV is 1608 but should probably be 1578.

1608 is the value it'd have if the arm AES weapon BV multiplier was 1.5, but that multiplier was errata'd to 1.25, making the final errat'd BV 1578 (MM,Mordel).

The AES discrepancy may affect other AES equipped units (e.g. Mortis 1A & 1P) though not all (e.g. PTR-7D, HCT-7R...).

Fortunately, this affected under ten units. It appears they were missed when the others were corrected.

From TRO 3145: Mercs, 1st paragraph of the entry-

The Raven merchant caste saw enough
potential in the Gossamer to broker an export
agreement with Clan Sea Fox, leaving the
Alliance to produce the Gossamer and the Foxes
to distribute it. It has proven a wildly successful
export in use throughout the Inner Sphere.


The only limit on sales explicitly mentioned is the Draconis Combine, yet it is not it mercs until ilClan with just the Dragoons.

We added the standard variant to mercs for all available eras. The XL is fluffed as a Raven unit so the availability was pared back significantly

[Martius]

Partisan Heavy Tank (Cell) RG33: no faction availability listed
Scorpion Light Tank (Armor) RG33: no faction availability listed

[Sartris]

populated

[Sartris]

Not sure if this was posted already, but...
The AS cards for aerospace fighters on MUL seem to incorrectly list 1/4MV as effects of engine crits, while AS Commander's Edition pg. 184 states that that's for small craft and dropships.
Fighters, according to the same page, lose half their thrust off one hit, and go to thrust 0 and crash/shut down off the second engine hit.
The new blank fighter cards in the back of the AS CE list engine crits as "1/2 MV" in accordance with the above.

Good news / bad news: good news is you are correct. Bad news is we can’t fix the template at present.

[danilapal]

Unit : Jump Platoon (Rifle, Ballistic)
http://www.masterunitlist.info/Unit/Details/1722/jump-platoon-rifle-ballistic

Issue : wrong Battle Value. 79 -> 89BV (see attachments)