’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer

[Kidd]

Most of the Warhammer designs are really good, 6D 7A 7K 8D 9S are all solid troopers and I daresay the 9D gives the Falconer a run for its money.

[Colt Ward]

I was not saying change them ALL to DHS, just playing with it as a patchwork monster- which it is.

[Arkansas Warrior]

There really needs to be a proper successor to the Hot Hammer.  With plasma rifles. >:D

[Kit deSummersville]

There really needs to be a proper successor to the Hot Hammer.  With plasma rifles. >:D

It's called the WHM-5L.

[CrossfirePilot]

Who doesn't want a Warhammer?!?! even when logic dictates a better mech choice, the Warhammer just seems to call to us.

(though we were probably also the type that spent our entire $1000 on bullets when playing Oregon Trail in grade school)

[Arkansas Warrior]

It's called the WHM-5L.

 :-\   It's a Whammy with plasma rifles, but that thing is just so different that it scarcely registers as a Warhammer to me.  I think it's the crazy movement that really throws me off.  Warhammers move 4/6+ and don't jump.  The 9D sits a little weird with me, but the 5L?  Some sort of bizarre, atavistic throwback to the BattleAxe and Hammerhands.

[Iron Mongoose]

We had a discussion in my family, and it came out my son likes the Warhammer best. Partially, his ridiculous luck allowed him to win a battle against my favorite Marauder (I match up I've won against seasoned veterans), partially he likes the balance of short and long ranged weapons, and I think he likes the humanoid look.

My daughter picked the Marauder, but I think only because I did. Knowing her, if she did a bit more digging shed pick the Awesome or Dire Wolf (or Orca).

[SteelRaven]

I'm still using the WHM-7A in Dark Age games, it's a beautiful design that can go head to head with almost any other heavy design.

 

[Colt Ward]

*State Farm voice*  Well, its a Royal, so yeah . . .

[SteelRaven]

*State Farm voice*  Well, its a Royal, so yeah . . .

Considering how many talk up the post Pheonix builds, thought it's only fair to mention. It's more or less the bases for the Davion 8D and is actually cheaper BV2 wise.

If you need a level 1 go to pick, the D6 zombie will out fight most of it's competitors, including the 9D. 

[Colt Ward]

Thought the -7M was built off the recovered SL data . . . I mean it does some things differently but works pretty well too.  Someone operating as a GM for my merc campaign fluffed out a -7M from their unit that was for sale- it was considered jinx'd, killed 3 pilots in their unit which is why it was for sale.  Has not killed the pilot in among my mercs but it always gets crippled in a serious fight . . . last one had a leg blown off, only part of the mech that was touched, it fell behind a hill but as the enemy moved was able to contribute a single ERPPC to the rest of the battle.

[Giovanni Blasini]

That's one of the problems with Warhammers in general: their weaponry is legendary, so they have a reputation as being vicious to face in combat, but they're still 70-ton 'Mechs and thin on armor in ma y variants, which make them easier to kill than, say, an Awesome. As a result,your Warhammer will often draw disproportionate levels of fire.

[mutantsix]

Out of curiosity and given that most royal variants have availability to the clans why is the Warhammer 7A extinct as of the clan invasion?

[Smegish]

Most likely: those clan 7As that survived past Operation Klondike got refit into IICs.

[Wrangler]

Most likely: those clan 7As that survived past Operation Klondike got refit into IICs.

I would think that would be a thing.   Were talking about jacking up Heavy into an Assault with Clan tech to the Endosteel bones.  I'd would figure there new builds. Traditionally, only "C" and not "IIC" are refits of the originals with maybe the exception of the Orion C the Clan Wolf Empire is building.

[Weirdo]

Out of curiosity and given that most royal variants have availability to the clans why is the Warhammer 7A extinct as of the clan invasion?

My guess is that it was popular, so it kept getting used in battle, so if the Clans weren't actively building new ones eventually all of them were destroyed on the battlefield.

[Colt Ward]

I would think that would be a thing.   Were talking about jacking up Heavy into an Assault with Clan tech to the Endosteel bones.  I'd would figure there new builds. Traditionally, only "C" and not "IIC" are refits of the originals with maybe the exception of the Orion C the Clan Wolf Empire is building.

The IICs get done in 2 flavors . . . one is a brand new design paying some sort of homage to the name of the previous design (the Phoenix Hawk IIC really stretches this, Griffin & Shadow Hawk are more the norm) and then you have ones that are rebuilds of the actual design (Orion IIC, Commando IIC and Highlander IIC to mind).

The C series comes in two flavors as well, the 3025 designs with standard everything else and retrofit with Clan weapons and nothing else (Atlas C, Marauder C, Warhammer C, etc) which is why most of them ended up lighter than the norm.  The Orion C is a bit of a hybrid to the approach (we got a RS for it), most of the chassis uses IS parts that were already part of the design on the production line and Clan weapons for the full tonnage as well as punch.  The second is designs like the Imp, Marauder II, Firefly and a few others, these designs are the Clan versions of what the Dragoons brought to the IS so they are the 'originals' that the dumb'd down versions we originally saw came from.  I think the Gallowglas WD is in the same boat, but it gets a different moniker.

I am with Weirdo about what happened to most of the Warhammer 7As & 6Rbs in the early Clan's hands.  They were one of the prime line machines they had on hand . . . some might have survived into modern times but IMO that would be extremely rare (you know, that proviso about how singletons might still exist into the next era) and I would not want to pilot them b/c they are likely patched together wrecks.  Were Warhammer 7As turned into Warhammer IIC?  Why?  The engines are going to be different sized, the weapons are all Clan spec, the structure is going to be heavier, and many other changes outside of MAYBE the cockpit- and I doubt even that is the case.

So you backed that Warhammer 7A into a factory refit cradle on Strana Mechty to Clannerize your ride . . . its dismantled piece by piece and all the upgraded parts go back into that cradle to build your new Warhammer IIC.  At the end of the process, you have that shiny new mech where you had a Warhammer 7A . . . but hey look, the Clan has enough parts to build a Warhammer 7A too!

[garhkal]

That's one of the problems with Warhammers in general: their weaponry is legendary, so they have a reputation as being vicious to face in combat, but they're still 70-ton 'Mechs and thin on armor in ma y variants, which make them easier to kill than, say, an Awesome. As a result,your Warhammer will often draw disproportionate levels of fire.

True dat.  Most any mech that can 'throw heavier than it can take' winds up becoming a magnet for enemy fire.

[Robroy]

Reading these posts I can not help but wonder, if the 7A is an upgrade of the royal 6Rb, why isn't it a 7Rb?

[glitterboy2098]

It would probably be improper not to mention that Natasha Kerensky’s Warhammer was a -6R model, though if she customized it more than that, it is unknown. Also, in the Battles over Mallory’s World, Yorinaga Kurita piloted a Warhammer. Though the Historical Turning Points volume on that conflict gives him a “personal” variant, I cannot find anything that differs between it and a stock -6K.

It is a -6K sheet, they just wanted to ensure people had the sheet and knew why it was there.
Oddly though, in the warrior series, when Yorinaga and Morgan both recall the battle, they mention yorinaga firing machineguns. So either they both misremembered the battle, or the scenario should have used a -6R.

[nckestrel]

Reading these posts I can not help but wonder, if the 7A is an upgrade of the royal 6Rb, why isn't it a 7Rb?

My assumption: The b notation was never actually used by the SLDF. The Star League played a shell game where it didn’t acknowledge having better versions. They just called the WHM-6Rb a WHM-6R.  The b notation came about later to note whether it was the WHM-6R everybody knew about or the better one.
The WHM-7A wasn’t a secret, so it had a new model number.

[Empyrus]

I'd assume the 7A is designated as it is because it is new production, truly separate model.
Maybe the 6Rb wasn't a refit (it could've been, though some bs are too complex to be relatively simple refits) but it was produced concurrently with the 6R, hence the name.

Further, the 6Rb was eventually available to everyone in the Inner Sphere (it is in IS General list on MUL). Whether clones or the Star League just made it available, no idea, but it does give reason to commission the 7A model for themselves.

EDIT I'll note the King Crab 010 as another oddity when it comes to designations. While there's a 000b, the 010 is a new model that is a Royal as well.

[Moonsword]

I'd assume the 7A is designated as it is because it is new production, truly separate model.
Maybe the 6Rb wasn't a refit (it could've been, though some bs are too complex to be relatively simple refits) but it was produced concurrently with the 6R, hence the name.

Further, the 6Rb was eventually available to everyone in the Inner Sphere (it is in IS General list on MUL). Whether clones or the Star League just made it available, no idea, but it does give reason to commission the 7A model for themselves.

The dates help provide context to what's going on with the Warhammer but you've got the gist of it already.  The WHM-6Rb was originally a Royal unit at the time it was introduced just after the Reunification War but proliferated later on and was no longer really a "Royal"-exclusive 'Mech by that point.  The WHM-7A was introduced in 2761, not long after the ER PPC was entering service, and represents a new Royal Warhammer to improve on the 6Rb's capabilities.

[VhenRa]

Its a bit of a similar situation with the MAD-1R Marauder, isn't it?

[Empyrus]

Its a bit of a similar situation with the MAD-1R Marauder, isn't it?

Not quite.
The Marauder 1R is the original model that uses modest amounts of advanced tech, later upgraded to higher tech 2R, then downgraded to 3R during the Succession Wars.

The Warhammer starts at low tech 6R, upgraded to Royal 6Rb, then later to 7A.

While the Marauder may have started as a Royal, it proliferated relatively quickly (wide availability), and the 2R is Royal and FedSuns available (though i wonder if that's the case of convergent evolution).

[VhenRa]

Not quite.
The Marauder 1R is the original model that uses modest amounts of advanced tech, later upgraded to higher tech 2R, then downgraded to 3R during the Succession Wars.

The Warhammer starts at low tech 6R, upgraded to Royal 6Rb, then later to 7A.

While the Marauder may have started as a Royal, it proliferated relatively quickly (wide availability), and the 2R is Royal and FedSuns available (though i wonder if that's the case of convergent evolution).

Might be a case of how the MUL SL-era is a little too broad. So... only really popping up in FedSuns hands after the coup, when the SLDF desperate for equipment started leaking advanced technology like a sieve. GM of Kathil starting to build those and boy, those them 2Rs fell out the back of a dropship, honest.

But what I meant about the 1R is that its similar to the 6Rb in that its a design that started out in the immediate aftermath of the Reunification War as a design exclusive to the SLDF Royals... but began to proliferate. Now, being otherwise a more low-tech design then the 6Rb, it proliferated much quicker.

[Moonsword]

Might be a case of how the MUL SL-era is a little too broad.

It's extremely broad, just like the Succession Wars eras mostly are.  In a lot of cases, you're going to have to use your best judgment to interpret the information.

In any case, we're kind of getting a bit of afield of the Warhammer itself here.  If you want to request more specific information about various MUL dates, I recommend doing that in the official MUL thread.

[DOC_Agren]

Always wonder why a proper 6D upgrade wasn't done

[Colt Ward]

A -7D?  well . . . it would be pretty close to the Penetrator IMO.

[Empyrus]

Is the 8D not a good upgrade for the 6D?
Max armor, good cooling, good firepower. Yes, there's the Streak with its explosive ammo but there's CASE and decent amount of padding so it ain't that bad.

IMO the 8D is an excellent Inner Sphere heavy 'Mech.