’Mech of the Week: WHM-* Warhammer

[Wrangler]

Is the 8D not a good upgrade for the 6D?
Max armor, good cooling, good firepower. Yes, there's the Streak with its explosive ammo but there's CASE and decent amount of padding so it ain't that bad.

IMO the 8D is an excellent Inner Sphere heavy 'Mech.

I have to agree.  Of all the reseens, she one the ones to me came out pretty solid and reusable.

Thing i noticed is the Kuritan Star League era Variant, still hasn't gotten a Record Sheet yet unless someone spotted it else where?

[Empyrus]

I have to agree.  Of all the reseens, she one the ones to me came out pretty solid and reusable.

Thing i noticed is the Kuritan Star League era Variant, still hasn't gotten a Record Sheet yet unless someone spotted it else where?

ER2750 'Mechs lack official RS. Megamek has approximate versions though.
The 6Rk is easy though, just replace the engine with an XL type and increase speed (i'd keep the leg heat sinks, others get moved to the engine).
Kinda neat model actually, the Whammy has a bit limited armor so greater mobility is certainly useful.

[VhenRa]

ER2750 'Mechs lack official RS. Megamek has approximate versions though.
The 6Rk is easy though, just replace the engine with an XL type and increase speed (i'd keep the leg heat sinks, others get moved to the engine).
Kinda neat model actually, the Whammy has a bit limited armor so greater mobility is certainly useful.

6Rk is DHS equipped, so that's kinda out.

[Empyrus]

Ah, right, forgot that.

[DOC_Agren]

Is the 8D not a good upgrade for the 6D?
Max armor, good cooling, good firepower. Yes, there's the Streak with its explosive ammo but there's CASE and decent amount of padding so it ain't that bad.

IMO the 8D is an excellent Inner Sphere heavy 'Mech.

It is a decent upgrade of the 6D but takes way to long appear, a 7D with ER PPC and DHS could have been rolled out much earlier (ie tro:3050) but most of those upgrades were done in the OH Shiny New toys/tech lets pop this in anywhere, reference like Panther with ERPPC and SHS.  Here what I am should have been a  7D.  It makes a a great trooper mech

[MarauderD]

8D's probably my favorite and the one I've had the most games in.  Just a stone cold killer and tough to get rid of.  Just wish the miniature wasn't so "special."

Don't know if it is tournament legal to do so, but with the beautiful knew sculpt in the Inner Sphere Battle Lance coming out in 2020, couldn't you just use that to portray your Warhammer 8D without feeling like the red headed step child?

[Colt Ward]

Since its not WYSIWYG . . .

[Arkansas Warrior]

It is a decent upgrade of the 6D but takes way to long appear, a 7D with ER PPC and DHS could have been rolled out much earlier (ie tro:3050) but most of those upgrades were done in the OH Shiny New toys/tech lets pop this in anywhere, reference like Panther with ERPPC and SHS.  Here what I am should have been a  7D.  It makes a a great trooper mech

The FedCom was building the 7S and buying the 7M, why would they need to build a third variant?  I suspect other upgrades or completely new designs were higher on the priority list anyway; while both the AFFS and LCAF both used plenty of Whammys, it’s not really the design you think of when you think “Davion Heavy” or “Steiner Heavy”.

[SteelRaven]

Think it's just a miss opportunity by FASA, like the Awesome AWS-9M when the AWS-9Q seems like the more logical upgrade.

That said, this was right about when the BTU was flooded with new designs along with the return of SLDF designs. Would a 7D be nice? Hell yeah, I have a fan build myself. Is it needed?

[Colt Ward]

Without missiles, how different is a -7D over a Penetrator really?

[DoctorMonkey]

Without missiles, how different is a -7D over a Penetrator really?

The legs are the other way around...

[Kidd]

Without missiles, how different is a -7D over a Penetrator really?

PPC not LL; ML not MPL

It's the little things, but they count. That's why I'm a fervent believer in the idea that Mech variants should adhere to the established theme of the Mech.

[Colt Ward]

PPC not LL; ML not MPL

It's the little things, but they count. That's why I'm a fervent believer in the idea that Mech variants should adhere to the established theme of the Mech.

And still not that different- trade some range issues for damage and the ability to pile on.

[SteelRaven]

Between the Black Knight and the Penetrator, you got energy troopers well covered. Besides, the Warhammer WHM-6Rb is also the same tech level

[Wrangler]

I think the thing about the availability of Mech really is a deciding factor. I mean the Black Knight should be ridiculously rare but there's no such thing as rare there's either extinct or it's available. TRO o 3025 revised pretty much threw that under the the bridge saying that it was available even though if the fluff suggests it's limited in number. Warhammer was mech of its time before the unseen thing ruined things. Thus flood of arguably better designs like the Knight.  Penetrator is very different machine from the whammy. It has to be bracket fired and you got be careful about side torsos a due to its XL and bomb in the center torso with its AMS ammo.

[Colt Ward]

Thus flood of arguably better designs like the Knight.  Penetrator is very different machine from the whammy. It has to be bracket fired and you got be careful about side torsos a due to its XL and bomb in the center torso with its AMS ammo.

The Warhammer -6D is sort of bracket fire as well, since the choice boils down to, fire both PPCs or fire one & everything else while running.  I get you, as a merc starting off in the Chaos March in '60 I wanted affordable & survivable, so for my line designs I ended up with three of the D series from 3025 (BLR, MAD, WHM) as my line fighters.  Fire support hung further back and I went with more advanced designs to increase throw weight- not fighting the Clans being cutting edge did not quite matter.  But IMO you can take a Warhammer 6D pilot, put his/her but in the seat of a Penetrator (except the weird LRM one) and its going to feel a lot the same- except the gait- when it comes to fighting the machine.

[Greatclub]

  Penetrator is very different machine from the whammy. It has to be bracket fired and you got be careful about side torsos a due to its XL and bomb in the center torso with its AMS ammo.

Um?

No Penetrator I'm aware of has an XL or even light. The ammo bomb on all of them is irritating, but losing a side torso barely slows one down

[DOC_Agren]

The FedCom was building the 7S and buying the 7M, why would they need to build a third variant?  I suspect other upgrades or completely new designs were higher on the priority list anyway; while both the AFFS and LCAF both used plenty of Whammys, it’s not really the design you think of when you think “Davion Heavy” or “Steiner Heavy”.

But the 6D was/is the Fed Sun model of the Warhammer, it must have had it "users" who were not used to launching Missile at target too.  And no it makes a good Steiner Recon mech

Without missiles, how different is a -7D over a Penetrator really?

I have had horrible lucky with Penetrators and good luck with Warhammers   :thumbsup:

[Colt Ward]

I have had horrible lucky with Penetrators and good luck with Warhammers   :thumbsup:

Oh, THAT I will buy . . . I am not a huge fan of the Timber Wolf A, but whenever I DO run it, the SSRM ammo always gets TAC'd it seems.

[Wrangler]

Um?

No Penetrator I'm aware of has an XL or even light. The ammo bomb on all of them is irritating, but losing a side torso barely slows one down

Oof, been long time since i used the Penetrator. I had been running that mech for many years (real time) in very long campaign.  Sorry for mis-remembering.  Thing was pretty darn easy to lose your torso, i can safely say that.

New rules with AMS were not yet in effect, so I've been saved couple times from a Center Torso hit to the Ammo bin, when bin had run dry thanks to rolling a 1D6 show how much ammo was used.   Whammy was more vulnerable to a ammo it than Pen was though.

[Empyrus]

So, what do people think of the new Warhammers?

The -9K feels more of a Project Phoenix Warhammer than Classic-style Warhammer. A bit tricky to manage heat, not firing a HPPC to fire a MML-9 leaves a lot of heat capacity unused.
I do like the heavy armoring of the -10K but using ClanTech only for secondary items feels a bit wasteful. Of course, the day Kuritans get around fitting it with Clan pulse lasers or ERPPCs, it is gonna transform into a true monstrosity.
The C 3 is odd. It debuts a lot later than the Warhammer IIC, but the fact it sports Clan XL engine and Clan Endo-steel kinda indicates it is fresh manufactured thing rather than a refit of cached Warhammers.
The -9R is very... well, Warhammer. Nicely improved, though i can't help but wish for another heat sink. As it is, secondary weapons add up to 18 heat, so firing them with one ERPPC is 33 heat before movement. I'd gladly trade half a ton of MG ammo and either half a ton of ammo or just using standard CASE for another heat sink. Objectively, not perhaps a big improvement to the -7A or -8D but glad to have it all the same.
 

[Frogfoot]

I like the 9K, the MML is something I would mainly use for crit-seeking once the HPPCs have melted open some armour. Generally more useful in SRM mode than LRM maybe, but you might get some use out of the LRMs if you're being shot at with plasma. I suppose if you're stationary in good cover you can just use it every other turn. This variant isn't much different from the Jihad-era 8K. The 8K uses the Project Phoenix exterior, I wonder if any got factory refits to 9K standard.

The 10K is a solid variant in the vein of the old SLDF version, with some perks on top. Maybe it's just me but the BV seems high for what you get, the comparable 7K costs about 350 less. Then again it'll shrug off all that Davion gauss and autocannon fire with the Ballistic Reinforced armour. The particular usage of Clantech is a little odd, nothing bad though, just that as noted it's all the minor secondary weapons. I guess the Clantech is production made on the back of the dead Nova Cats and that cERPPCs can't be churned out in enough numbers yet. Given the hitting power of the HPPC on the 9K over the 10K's IS ERPPCs, do you think these two are in production at the same time?

The 8R is good, it's a sensible design that avoids the flaws of earlier upgrades and just gives you what you want from a Warhammer in that era. Even more, I can understand how the Regulans would want to replace their heat bucket 8Ms. I would have taken even the 7M over the 8M.

[Empyrus]

The 8R is good, it's a sensible design that avoids the flaws of earlier upgrades and just gives you what you want from a Warhammer in that era. Even more, I can understand how the Regulans would want to replace their heat bucket 8Ms. I would have taken even the 7M over the 8M.

Oh, didn't even think how the Marik Warhammers were. Let's see:
-The -7M is dated, with thin armor and no CASE, plus my most hated thing: Trading one MG for AMS rather than removing half a ton of MG ammo...
-The -8M... I'll be honest, i forgot this was a thing, i must've suppressed the memory. Hot and stupid, though i grant it has decent armor. Yeah, definitively see why the Regulans and rest of the Free Worlds remnants were happy to get the -8R.

I am a bit more wondering why others wanted -8Rs, Project Phoenix Warhammers for other factions are OK to good, but i suppose the Project Phoenix association with the Word of Blake would've driven adoption of Warhammers with classic lines.

[Greatclub]

2hPPC+MML+walk, hPPC+MML+move is a pattern that avoids heat penalties on the whammy. It isn't ideal, but it works.

[Frogfoot]

2hPPC+MML+walk, hPPC+MML+move is a pattern that avoids heat penalties on the whammy. It isn't ideal, but it works.

If we're firing the MML in LRM mode then by my rough estimate the averaged damage is slightly lower than a pattern where we're only shooting the two HPPCs every turn, assuming every weapon hits. Your pattern has higher potential max damage than the HPPCs alone but only if you get very good rolls on the cluster hits table for the MML every time. In SRM mode the average damage for your firing pattern is higher than just the HPPCs so it's good for close range.

[BATTLEMASTER]

I got MechWarrior 5 recently with the MercTech mod installed and found a pristine Royal Warhammer WHM-6Rb on the black market that I could afford.  Being that it was 3016 in the game at the time, I was forced with a choice between that and a Thunderbolt TDR-5S with some minor armor damage:  Do I go with one of my favorite battlemechs with dual PPCs and 17 DHS that I can't easily replace at that time, or do I go with a rugged Thunderbolt that can use replacement parts that are easily sourced?

I decided that 17 DHS were worth the maintenance risk and combat performance boost, so I went with the Royal Warhammer!  I made some modifications to it, like removing the machine gun and Artemis IV FCS, and replacing all the Ferro Fibrous armor with maximum standard plate, and swapping the two small lasers for medium lasers.  It still has 17 DHS and it has performed very well in combat!  Though if I start losing DHS due to combat damage, I will still have 11 engine-mounted DHS to provide adequate cooling for the PPCs, and use the extra mass for either another PPC or squeeze in dual large lasers.  But that's what might happen if you run a LosTech toy in the Succession Wars, board game or video game campaign!

I'll buy that Thud if I find it again, but if I had to choose between a Thud and a Warhammer?  Hmmm more armor and a gun for everything vs. less armor and dual PPCs (though I can modify it into a WHM-6K, roughly, if I wanted to)...

[Kojak]

What are everyone's thoughts on the WHM-10T? Currently in a scenario where the opposing force has a full lance of them (nearly ten percent of their total force!), and I'm curious to hear from those who have experience using/fighting them.

[Deadborder]

I hate the WHM-10T and they all need to die. I say this from the experience of having fought one and spending the entire game with it backshooting my heavies

[Wrangler]

10T is highly mobile Pretend Warhammer.  Moving insane speeds for hammer, yet still has a punch.   
I say pretend since it's acts nothing like a Warhammer.  Like Deadborder said, it's good at hunting and harassing slower units.

[BATTLEMASTER]

I don't think it acts any less of a Warhammer than the 9D does.  It trades accuracy for more mobility.  I don't think there are many other 'mechs that can move two PPCs around a map and use them like the WHM-10T does.