Author Topic: Design Quirks you'd like to see? Negative ones too!  (Read 5461 times)

CVB

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Re: Design Quirks you'd like to see? Negative ones too!
« Reply #30 on: 13 January 2022, 20:20:04 »
Probably too realistic  ;D


"Wars result when one side either misjudges its chances or wishes to commit suicide; and not even Masada began as a suicide attempt. In general, both warring parties expect to win. In the event, they are wrong more than half the time."
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I'm willing to suspend my disbelief, but I'm not willing to hang it by the neck until it's dead, dead, dead!

Daryk

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Re: Design Quirks you'd like to see? Negative ones too!
« Reply #31 on: 13 January 2022, 20:24:07 »
That last one is entirely too cute to be real.. What the heck is it?? ???

CVB

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Re: Design Quirks you'd like to see? Negative ones too!
« Reply #32 on: 13 January 2022, 20:33:24 »
US Army M981 FISTV, based on the M901ITV TOW missile launcher. Turret folds down by about one meter (picture shows raised turret),

Top: M113 with RATAC battlefield radar, German Bundeswehr
Center:  M113, equipped as forward artillery observation post (optical/laser), German Bundeswehr
« Last Edit: 13 January 2022, 20:35:03 by CVB »
"Wars result when one side either misjudges its chances or wishes to commit suicide; and not even Masada began as a suicide attempt. In general, both warring parties expect to win. In the event, they are wrong more than half the time."
- David Drake

I'm willing to suspend my disbelief, but I'm not willing to hang it by the neck until it's dead, dead, dead!

Daryk

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Re: Design Quirks you'd like to see? Negative ones too!
« Reply #33 on: 13 January 2022, 20:36:19 »
Please pardon my Navy chortling over the Army making something like that (and DON'T tell my wife, who was in the Army back in the day!)  ;D

CVB

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Re: Design Quirks you'd like to see? Negative ones too!
« Reply #34 on: 13 January 2022, 21:17:06 »
You can always make fun of the Air Force together  ;D
"Wars result when one side either misjudges its chances or wishes to commit suicide; and not even Masada began as a suicide attempt. In general, both warring parties expect to win. In the event, they are wrong more than half the time."
- David Drake

I'm willing to suspend my disbelief, but I'm not willing to hang it by the neck until it's dead, dead, dead!

RifleMech

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Re: Design Quirks you'd like to see? Negative ones too!
« Reply #35 on: 14 January 2022, 02:31:15 »
Correct, and neither can the Thumper fire into the side arcs, but that has nothing to do with the laser turret being in the way, but everything with the fact the according to the RS, the Thumper is front mounted and thus limited the same way as a Hetzer's or Saladin's gun.

I keep forgetting the Thumper doesn't have a turret.  xp Maybe it'll have the vehicle equivalent of the Directional Torso Mount Quirk?  >:D


An LRM variant JagerMech with a mast mounted Recon Camera would be...  :drool:


Would be fun.  >:D

idea weenie

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Re: Design Quirks you'd like to see? Negative ones too!
« Reply #36 on: 14 January 2022, 03:56:15 »
US Army M981 FISTV, based on the M901ITV TOW missile launcher. Turret folds down by about one meter (picture shows raised turret),

I wonder how many soldiers would watch the movie, then refer to it as the M981 WALL-E?

Daryk

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Re: Design Quirks you'd like to see? Negative ones too!
« Reply #37 on: 14 January 2022, 04:12:21 »
You can always make fun of the Air Force together  ;D
Oh, we do...  ^-^

NomadicChronicler

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Re: Design Quirks you'd like to see? Negative ones too!
« Reply #38 on: 14 January 2022, 04:49:34 »
On "Elevated/Flexible Gun Mount"s;
I'm not opposed to the idea but for the love of urbanmech, please remember to put a limiters on it, regarding tonnage, recoil and so on.

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NomadicChronicler

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Re: Design Quirks you'd like to see? Negative ones too!
« Reply #39 on: 16 January 2022, 09:06:01 »
Simulator / Training Module;
 The mech with this quirk is designed as a training model; It lacks some of the field endurance of it's front-line focused brethren due to smaller tonnage of consumables and a general increase to the tech support and maintenance requirements in order to keep it's systems calibrated.
 On the upside, the presence of this module allows pilots to train in simulated combat modules on their own as well as in networked group simulations if other mechs with this module and a dedicated HQ unit to run the exercise is present, which greatly enhances training speeds as this system eliminates most of the supply expenditure up to a certain point (there still isn't anything as good as real experience.)
 Lastly, during actual combat, this system allows an experienced commander, along with his/her command team to closely supervise the rookies under their command thanks to all the additional electronic integration between the mech and the HQ systems; providing a +1 buff to one (chosen at the start of the turn) statistic of the supervised pilot.

idea weenie

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Re: Design Quirks you'd like to see? Negative ones too!
« Reply #40 on: 23 March 2022, 19:13:36 »
Fanatical troops
Ignoring common sense advice about duck and cover, evasive maneuvering, and similar protective measures, this unit is going all-out.  Due to the greater focus on engaging the opponent, the unit gets a 1 pt bonus to their offensive Piloting and Gunnery rolls, but unfortunately suffering double damage from enemy attacks.

Example:
A fanatical Mechwarrior gets the 1 pt bonus when swinging their Mech's fist for a punch, but does not get that bonus when rolling to stand up after falling down.  Similarly, a 5-pt Medium Laser hit on the Head would strip all of the 9 pts of armor off, inflict 1 pt of damage on the head's internal structure, and due to the internal damage would roll for a potential critical hit.  If not sure which Piloting rolls would apply, anything that involves attacking or otherwise getting closer to the closest enemy would qualify, while all other Piloting rolls would not.



Luxurious (timeframe_A/timeframe_B)
This vehicle/Mech/vessel is so comfortable to be on that personnel assigned to it will actually become used to the luxury and have difficulty re-acclimating once they are transferred away.

The (timeframe_A) indicates how long a unit has to be on board the V/M/V before removal from that vessel will cause the unit to lose a combat grade.  Training the unit for at least (timeframe_B) will allow that lost combat grade will be restored.  This time spent training does not count for gaining experience through training.  Note that this effect only applies after the unit has departed, so it is possible for a unit to be transferred and left on board with no loss of combat capability.

Example:
The Veteran mercenary infantry unit Merrill's Marauders had to be transported to the destination and the only transport available was a Princess class Dropship.  If the Princess class had a Quirk of "Luxurious (2 months/1 month)", and the trip was over 2 months, then when Merrill's Marauders arrived at their destination their effective rating in combat would be considered Regular.  Time to call out the Drill Instructors for the next 1 month so the infantry can remember that field showers don't just mean lack of scented bubble bath.



Horrible conditions (timeframe)
This transport unit is so bad to be on that combat forces will actually start to mutiny over time when stationed aboard.  For each (timeframe), the unit loses 1 level of loyalty.  When the loyalty gets to Questionable, then every (timeframe) after that a 2d6 is rolled and that is the percentage of the force that has to be confined for d6 months due to attempted mutiny.  The nice part is that any troops that are still confined when the unit reaches its destination can be converted to Foot rifle infantry for every 28 people.  Non-infantry Combat troops are converted over at their current combat grade (Green, regular, veteran, elite), non-combat units lose 1 grade, while combat infantry can choose to get the "Fanatical Troops" Quirk.

Advantage is when this transport unit is used for evacuation.  Any failed Willpower rolls that resulted in the unit fleeing off the map will allow one failed reroll because the unit has that bad of a reputation.  Similarly every 280 civilians being evacuated will produce 1 unit of green foot rifle infantry (assuming sufficient weaponry is available).

This effect can also be countered by paying the personnel more to reflect extra entertainment/discipline necessary (depending on the ship, this could be one and the same, such as pirate Dropships).  For every 10% extra paid to the personnel, the rolls are reduced by 1 (to a minimum of 1 each).  This can be adjusted so only some of the personnel are paid more, and others are paid less (i.e. a pirate unit would tend to keep the doctors/senior techs/etc at the higher pay grade, and let the minions take regular pay in order to get a bunch of berserkers when they reach the planet.

This quirk can be applied to a single vehicle (where that vehicle is considered unlucky or has springs sticking off the cast aluminum seats), or an entire production run where the vehicles were designed 1 inch too small for the minimum size trooper to easily/comfortably fit in.  Some examples are armored personnel carriers that are just short enough for the troopers to bang their heads on the ceiling of the personnel compartment with every dip in the ground, infantry clothing whose texture resembles burlap, or the original Scorpion that would have the Mechwarriors prefer almost any other ride.

Maingunnery

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Re: Design Quirks you'd like to see? Negative ones too!
« Reply #41 on: 23 March 2022, 20:29:48 »

Jettison-Capable Limbs

Points: 1 point per limb
Applicable to: BattleMechs and IndustrialMechs
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HeavyArmorMecha

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Re: Design Quirks you'd like to see? Negative ones too!
« Reply #42 on: 23 March 2022, 21:25:32 »
Vertical-Launched Missiles

Points: 5 point per launcher
Applicable to: SRMs, LRMs, MMLs, ATMs, Thunderbolt Missiles, SRTs, LRTs mounted on Battlemech, Industrialmech, Combat Vehicle and Support Vehicle.

The Launcher now gains 360° firing arc, and -1 hit bonus if the target is within the minimal range.

Cannonshop

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Re: Design Quirks you'd like to see? Negative ones too!
« Reply #43 on: 23 March 2022, 21:32:21 »
Ergononic Design:

The cockpit or crew module of the vehicle in question was designed by someone who understands how the human body works and how much information the human brain can process at one time.  this permits multiple targeting without penalty and reduces PSR checks by one pip for jumping, skid avoidance/sideslip rolls or fall recovery.

"...all the controls are right where your instincts say they should be, and it doesn't swamp you with irrelevant information, plus the feedback systems are calibrated to actually provide useful feedback."
"If you have to ask permission, then it's no longer a Right, it has been turned into a Privilege-something that can be and will be taken from you when convenient."

CVB

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Re: Design Quirks you'd like to see? Negative ones too!
« Reply #44 on: 23 March 2022, 22:09:45 »
Vertical-Launched Missiles

Points: 5 point per launcher

Maybe assign point costs according to damage and range: SRM2 < ELRM20
"Wars result when one side either misjudges its chances or wishes to commit suicide; and not even Masada began as a suicide attempt. In general, both warring parties expect to win. In the event, they are wrong more than half the time."
- David Drake

I'm willing to suspend my disbelief, but I'm not willing to hang it by the neck until it's dead, dead, dead!

HeavyArmorMecha

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Re: Design Quirks you'd like to see? Negative ones too!
« Reply #45 on: 23 March 2022, 23:39:48 »
Maybe assign point costs according to damage and range: SRM2 < ELRM20

To be honest, I didn't think that much when writing that, and now that I have, it felt very hard to balance it...

Charistoph

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Re: Design Quirks you'd like to see? Negative ones too!
« Reply #46 on: 24 March 2022, 09:13:38 »
Fanatical troops
Ignoring common sense advice about duck and cover, evasive maneuvering, and similar protective measures, this unit is going all-out.  Due to the greater focus on engaging the opponent, the unit gets a 1 pt bonus to their offensive Piloting and Gunnery rolls, but unfortunately suffering double damage from enemy attacks.

Example:
A fanatical Mechwarrior gets the 1 pt bonus when swinging their Mech's fist for a punch, but does not get that bonus when rolling to stand up after falling down.  Similarly, a 5-pt Medium Laser hit on the Head would strip all of the 9 pts of armor off, inflict 1 pt of damage on the head's internal structure, and due to the internal damage would roll for a potential critical hit.  If not sure which Piloting rolls would apply, anything that involves attacking or otherwise getting closer to the closest enemy would qualify, while all other Piloting rolls would not.

That's more an SPA than a Quirk.  Beyond that, I would think that Fanatical would have a bonus versus Morale rules and other SPAs like Antagonizer and Demoralizer.

It would only be a Quirk if it was on Infantry.
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Lycanphoenix

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Re: Design Quirks you'd like to see? Negative ones too!
« Reply #47 on: 18 April 2024, 00:31:42 »
Magnesium Skeleton (5 point rebate)
If the mech gets too hot, or if the internal structure is hit with Flamers, Plasma weapons, or Inferno missiles, then there's a chance the whole mech will immolate itself from within. For each failed roll, the internal structure will take additional damage (prompting for crits) and heat levels will further climb.

Mechanis

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Re: Design Quirks you'd like to see? Negative ones too!
« Reply #48 on: 18 April 2024, 20:17:33 »
(+1/+2/+4) Hanger Queen: Some vehicles, no matter what their design specs say, just need maintenance constantly to not break down. Such designs are given the sarcastic epithet of "hanger queens" thanks to their constant demands on one's tech crew...

A unit with the Hanger Queen design quirk requires maintenance more often than a standard unit. Hanger Queen may be taken multiple times; for the first rank, reduce the time between required maintenance cycles by one quarter, for two ranks, by one third, and for three ranks by half. This Quirk is incompatible with the Rugged design quirk.

(It's Anti-rugged, basically)

(-2) Stately Grace: It might not be fast, but it can turn on a pinhead.

Large Craft with the Stately Grace design quirk may double their effective thrust points for performing same-hex manuvers, such as altering orientation or facing, so long as they use only Safe thrust.

Daryk

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Re: Design Quirks you'd like to see? Negative ones too!
« Reply #49 on: 19 April 2024, 03:15:59 »
That should be "Hangar Queen"... ;)

Lycanphoenix

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Re: Design Quirks you'd like to see? Negative ones too!
« Reply #50 on: 19 April 2024, 12:22:44 »
Military Surplus (variable cost)
Despite not being a military unit, some military-grade components were used in its construction. For example, an IndustrialMech built on a BattleMech chassis.
Appicable to: IndustrialMechs and Support Vehicles.


I'm a bit on the fence with this one, because I don't really know how to quantify it in rules.

RifleMech

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Re: Design Quirks you'd like to see? Negative ones too!
« Reply #51 on: 20 April 2024, 02:02:57 »
Vertical-Launched Missiles

Points: 5 point per launcher
Applicable to: SRMs, LRMs, MMLs, ATMs, Thunderbolt Missiles, SRTs, LRTs mounted on Battlemech, Industrialmech, Combat Vehicle and Support Vehicle.

The Launcher now gains 360° firing arc, and -1 hit bonus if the target is within the minimal range.


Maybe 1 point per ton so it costs more for heavier weapons than lighter ones?

I also think the bonus within minimum range in addition to removing a minimum range and 360 degree firing arc might be too much. Instead, I'd allow them to target units directly above them.


Military Surplus (variable cost)
Despite not being a military unit, some military-grade components were used in its construction. For example, an IndustrialMech built on a BattleMech chassis.
Appicable to: IndustrialMechs and Support Vehicles.


I'm a bit on the fence with this one, because I don't really know how to quantify it in rules.

I think would come under mixed tech. BattleMech with an IndustrialMech cockpit.
Combat Vehicle with Support armor and fire control system.

idea weenie

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Re: Design Quirks you'd like to see? Negative ones too!
« Reply #52 on: 20 April 2024, 17:14:17 »
Maybe 1 point per ton so it costs more for heavier weapons than lighter ones?

The problem is the LRM-5 vs the other LRMs.

LRM    Tons    pts/dmg
  5  20.4
10  50.5
15  70.467
20100.5

The LRM-5 has the lowest cost per pt of damage.

By making it proportional to damage, you avoid cases such as this.

Maingunnery

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Re: Design Quirks you'd like to see? Negative ones too!
« Reply #53 on: 20 April 2024, 17:42:35 »
I have something that are WIP, but could use some feedback.

Quirks for 21st century support vehicles.


Weak Top Armor
This quirk can only be applied to ground-based support vehicles. The point value of this quirk is equal to the BAR reduction from receiving high-angle attacks. High angle attacks are those from attackers whose total height advantage in levels matches or exceeds the distance to the target in hexes. For example, a BattleMech attacks a tracked support vehicle in an adjacent hex of the same level, in which the height difference is one level, and the distance is one hex. Units of equal height, such as conventional infantry, can also qualify if they are in a high enough building or hex level. While airborne units always qualify by default. This BAR reduction is not applied to AE damage.

Ancient Point-Defenses
This quirk allows the unit to use point defense weapons against ancient rockets and missile systems. This quirk is non-functional against more modern systems such as LRM or SRM launchers.

Limited Elevation
Some turrets of this era were less capable of engaging nearby targets at higher elevations, making them unable to target airborne units. This often made them effectively helpless against airborne attackers.

Stationary Weapon/Equipment
The unit must be stationary to use the specified weapon or equipment. The number of points into this quirk determines the delay before and after usage. One point allows for usage in the same turn, any additional points note the additional delay in turns during which it needs to remain stationary.

Center-line Weaponry
Mounted weaponry has a more restricted firing arc, having been reduced to a single line of hexes. Guided missiles are excepted from this quirk.

Outdated Countermeasures (date)
This design either lacks countermeasures or is so outdated past the noted date that they are no longer effective. They are easier to-hit as a result.

Reduced crew
Some vehicles during those ancient times operated with minimum number of crew-members. Penalties for field repairs and crew consciousness checks.
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Primus203

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Re: Design Quirks you'd like to see? Negative ones too!
« Reply #54 on: 20 April 2024, 18:20:41 »
Ultra Stable Body an aero quirk that is both a positive and negative at the same time. This quirk gives and immense positive bonus to Piloting skill rolls. On the downside is the frame is so stable that maneuverability is sacrificed greatly lowering dodge modifiers.

This renders the units far easier to hit and therefore more reliant on armor for protection. This quirk would be excellent for ground attack but poor for anti fighter work. This quirk also has a moderate weight penalty for the reinforced frame that minimizes air flow shifts due to frame warping from impacts.

Lycanphoenix

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Re: Design Quirks you'd like to see? Negative ones too!
« Reply #55 on: 20 April 2024, 20:34:37 »
That last quirk might be more appropriate as a chassis modification than a quirk.

RifleMech

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Re: Design Quirks you'd like to see? Negative ones too!
« Reply #56 on: 21 April 2024, 02:11:49 »
The problem is the LRM-5 vs the other LRMs.

LRM    Tons    pts/dmg
  5  20.4
10  50.5
15  70.467
20100.5

The LRM-5 has the lowest cost per pt of damage.

By making it proportional to damage, you avoid cases such as this.


There are other missile launcher types. Damage per missile can also change with ammo types. The only consistent is that the bigger the launcher the bigger the potential damage.


I have something that are WIP, but could use some feedback.

Quirks for 21st century support vehicles.


Weak Top Armor
This quirk can only be applied to ground-based support vehicles. The point value of this quirk is equal to the BAR reduction from receiving high-angle attacks. High angle attacks are those from attackers whose total height advantage in levels matches or exceeds the distance to the target in hexes. For example, a BattleMech attacks a tracked support vehicle in an adjacent hex of the same level, in which the height difference is one level, and the distance is one hex. Units of equal height, such as conventional infantry, can also qualify if they are in a high enough building or hex level. While airborne units always qualify by default. This BAR reduction is not applied to AE damage.

I'm going to presume ground units include wet navy types. I like it and I can see a matching weak underbelly armor. I can also see this quirk applying to Quad Mechs (The Scorpion had weak belly armor) and to some mechs with longer torsos. (Marauder compared to a Hatchetman.)


Quote
Ancient Point-Defenses
This quirk allows the unit to use point defense weapons against ancient rockets and missile systems. This quirk is non-functional against more modern systems such as LRM or SRM launchers.

I'm not sure this works. Aren't the ancient point defense weapons, that we have rules for, machine guns?



Quote
Limited Elevation
Some turrets of this era were less capable of engaging nearby targets at higher elevations, making them unable to target airborne units. This often made them effectively helpless against airborne attackers.

Center-line Weaponry
Mounted weaponry has a more restricted firing arc, having been reduced to a single line of hexes. Guided missiles are excepted from this quirk.

I'd add limited traverse to the first as a turret may not fully rotate and/or elevate/depress. That way it can be applied twice if needed.

I'm not sure the centerline weapon would work. I understand it it but feels like it would apply to most weapons that aren't turret or arm mounted.

Quote
Stationary Weapon/Equipment
The unit must be stationary to use the specified weapon or equipment. The number of points into this quirk determines the delay before and after usage. One point allows for usage in the same turn, any additional points note the additional delay in turns during which it needs to remain stationary.

Other than weapons on vehicles with no targeting system, what weapons/equipment would this apply to?

Quote
Outdated Countermeasures (date)
This design either lacks countermeasures or is so outdated past the noted date that they are no longer effective. They are easier to-hit as a result.

This sounds like the counter measure to primitive TAG. I think this applies to most civilian and older Tech C and below military vehicles.

Quote
Reduced crew
Some vehicles during those ancient times operated with minimum number of crew-members. Penalties for field repairs and crew consciousness checks.

Shouldn't this apply to all vehicles operating below the minimum crew requirements?

Maingunnery

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Re: Design Quirks you'd like to see? Negative ones too!
« Reply #57 on: 21 April 2024, 06:27:24 »
I'm going to presume ground units include wet navy types. I like it and I can see a matching weak underbelly armor. I can also see this quirk applying to Quad Mechs (The Scorpion had weak belly armor) and to some mechs with longer torsos. (Marauder compared to a Hatchetman.)
Weak underbelly is a good idea.

Quote
I'm not sure this works. Aren't the ancient point defense weapons, that we have rules for, machine guns?
Yes it allows for MGs to be used as AMS.

Code: [Select]
I'd add limited traverse to the first as a turret may not fully rotate and/or elevate/depress. That way it can be applied twice if needed. Good idea.

Code: [Select]
I'm not sure the centerline weapon would work. I understand it it but feels like it would apply to most weapons that aren't turret or arm mounted. Most weapons still get an entire firing arc from the traverse/etc from their aiming systems. But with things like a mass driver on a WarShip, there can be cases there are no aiming systems at all.

Quote
Other than weapons on vehicles with no targeting system, what weapons/equipment would this apply to?
Comm equipment, high recoil weapons, artillery, anything that can't be used while mobile or that needs extra preparation before usage.

Quote
This sounds like the counter measure to primitive TAG. I think this applies to most civilian and older Tech C and below military vehicles.
Mostly yes, but I think that making it date depended would be flexible. 

Quote
Shouldn't this apply to all vehicles operating below the minimum crew requirements?
Possibly.
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VanVelding

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Re: Design Quirks you'd like to see? Negative ones too!
« Reply #58 on: 21 April 2024, 12:29:56 »
I do have a draft document that needs some work and testing, but it covers a few ideas, some taken from fluff in earlier TROs.

I also used a classification based on weapon BV to grade weapons, instead of the ad-hoc systems of tonnage and damage that have emerged around quirks affecting different scales of equipment.

Quirks begin on page four. Equipment classes start at the bottom of page one.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vR634M-IstFuFluPW5CH62CSvN_pqGjDUBLEPp7ec8R29S5-uS37NSvZqH83Ooqbmbvv8knFFOC2cXt/pub
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Lycanphoenix

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Re: Design Quirks you'd like to see? Negative ones too!
« Reply #59 on: 21 April 2024, 20:11:08 »
There's an old apocryphal mech from StarDrive, called the Junior, with some very interesting quirks (which predate the actual Design Quirks rules).

For example, its targeting and tracking system has a lower penalty when its damaged at the expense of only being able to use up to three weapons at once, and the mech tends to shut down randomly whenever you enter water.

I actually use the Shure-Shott CL-541/9 TTS on all of my mechs with exactly three weapons.
« Last Edit: 21 April 2024, 20:13:30 by Lycanphoenix »

 

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