When is an Armored Motive System on a vehicle worth it?

[Alan Grant]

The concept of the Armored Motive System for vehicles has always intrigued me. But there is some debate about when its worthwhile, on what class of vehicle, what type of motive system. Since it takes up 15 percent of the unit's tonnage, I find a lot of vehicle designers prefer to use that weight for something else.

So I'm posing the question, how do you get the most out of this in designing vehicles?

[CloaknDagger]

Clan AMS is only 10%.

And superheavy vehicles it can be useful for. Don't want those things getting stopped so easily.

[UnLimiTeD]

It's mostly fluff.
If you go for optimized (shaaame! ^-^), everything you can't mount hardened armor on can probably use one.
If it defines itself through speed.

[Feign]

It's mostly fluff.
If you go for optimized (shaaame! ^-^), everything you can't mount hardened armor on can probably use one.
If it defines itself through speed.

On the contrary, from everything I can tell, the protection from Hardened and Ferro Lam armor stacks with the protection from an Armored Motive System...

Put it on something that assaults a position slowly but steadily to increase your chances of getting into range.

[CloaknDagger]

Hardened doesn't prevent motive crits, does it?

[Col Toda]

Depends on the Combat Vehicle Tactical doctrine you use.  If your combat vehicles are used for
defense only it is not as needed as for offense .  I have hover tanks that do not have it for it
goes 9 / 14 at 14 it move 2 to get out of hull down position move 10 and move 2 to get into
another hull down position giving it a +6 move and hull down defensive modifier . A hull down
combat vehicle has the same benifit as an AMS without spending the weight for it . I rather
buy armor instead for a defensive unit .  An offensive unit has a much bigger reason to have
it as you do not have the prepared hull down positions in place .  Since a hull down tank gets
hit in the turret my hover tanks tend to have 60pt of Armor in the turret and front.  After the
turret gets reduced to 30pts or less I break out of the hull down position situation and takes
my chances .  If I take a motive crit and time and defense in depth is on my side I just retreat.
I tend to have at least 3 turns of advancing on the enemy without having a problem at all.

[Prince of Darkness]

Hardened doesn't prevent motive crits, does it?

No, but hardened armor reduces the chance of a crit by -2 on the chart.

[Sabelkatten]

No, but hardened armor reduces the chance of a crit by -2 on the chart.

Wasn't there a rule question/answer that said that armor type doesn't affect motive hits at all? IIRC the motive system is counted as "outside" the armor.

[CloaknDagger]

Wasn't there a rule question/answer that said that armor type doesn't affect motive hits at all? IIRC the motive system is counted as "outside" the armor.

But Hardened's thing is that it's more bulky and protective than normal.

[A. Lurker]

Hardened armor applies a -2 penalty to rolls for penetrating critical hits, i.e. TACs. (Once the armor is gone, critical hits from structure damage to the location are resolved normally.) But motive system damage isn't formally a "critical hit" at all, so that doesn't really help here.

[Prince of Darkness]

Basically, with both systems together you have a -4 on crits to the motive system chart, which really makes rolling for them a waste in most cases.

[CloaknDagger]

Basically, with both systems together you have a -4 on crits to the motive system chart, which really makes rolling for them a waste in most cases.

No, only -2.

[Prince of Darkness]

No, only -2.

Pg. 283, Tactical operations:

"Armored Motive Systems apply an additional –2 modifier to any rolls made on the Motive System Damage Table for a vehicle equipped with this system. A result of 2 or less reflects no effect to the vehicle’s motive systems."

Coupled with Hardened armor, that's a -4.

[Taharqa]

Pg. 283, Tactical operations:

"Armored Motive Systems apply an additional –2 modifier to any rolls made on the Motive System Damage Table for a vehicle equipped with this system. A result of 2 or less reflects no effect to the vehicle’s motive systems."

Coupled with Hardened armor, that's a -4.

CloakNDagger isn't questioning the motive system rules but whether you get a -2 for hardened armor, so you are quoting the wrong rules.

[Prince of Darkness]

CloakNDagger isn't questioning the motive system rules but whether you get a -2 for hardened armor, so you are quoting the wrong rules.

Oh really?  Easy fix:

Pg 281:
Penetrating critical hit checks (including “floating” critical hits) against a unit protected by Hardened Armor (such as those caused by rolling a 2 on the Hit Location Table, or during a successful Swarm Attack) suffer a –2 modifier to all rolls on the Determining Critical Hits Table (including Vehicle Critical Hits Tables). If the attack did not strike a location or facing protected by Hardened Armor, this critical hit modifier does not apply.

This is where Im getting that -4 from- the combined total of Hardened armor and the armored motive system.

[A. Lurker]

Oh really?  Easy fix:

Pg 281:
Penetrating critical hit checks (including “floating” critical hits) against a unit protected by Hardened Armor (such as those caused by rolling a 2 on the Hit Location Table, or during a successful Swarm Attack) suffer a –2 modifier to all rolls on the Determining Critical Hits Table (including Vehicle Critical Hits Tables). If the attack did not strike a location or facing protected by Hardened Armor, this critical hit modifier does not apply.

This is where Im getting that -4 from- the combined total of Hardened armor and the armored motive system.

Except, of course, that motive system damage isn't a critical hit, penetrating or otherwise. The Vehicle Critical Hits Tables don't even list it; it's its own separate thing.

[Prince of Darkness]

oh god i am so confused

[wellspring]

The Aithon is a good example of what you can do with an armored motive system, and where it fits best.

The thing is, most "MBTs" in battletech are really fire support vehicles. The MBT in battletech is the battlemech. Armoring the motive system doesn't really change that core reality. It makes more sense with IFVs, but these are machines you hope to avoid having end up in a slugging match. And artillery isn't supposed to get into battle at all.

The Aithon is a unique vehicle for a very narrow role, but a good example of where a vehicle might well end up slugging it out.