Ghost in the Shell 2017 film general thread (SPOILERS and speculation obviously)

[ANS Kamas P81]

Second trailer hit overnight, and well...here you go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuJ25aDdw4s

I ... look at the trailer and I see a Bourne Identity remake.  Not Ghost in the Shell.  I also never really saw Section 9 as being an outright assassination unit, despite the famous scene of the Major taking out a defector before vanishing as she falls away from the building.  Most of it, especially with Standalone Complex which appears to be being used, as the Laughing Man is in the credits they were actually a police unit focused on tracking down and arresting criminals, not outright murdering them.

I dunno.  Trailers can often tell a completely wrong story, and often use (a lot of) footage that doesn't end up in the film itself, for a number of reasons both good and bad.  Trailers aren't done by the director or production staff, they're made by separate marketing firms with a different mindset.  Maybe this is one of those; we've had a few recently that were certainly...iffy.

But if this is what the movie really is, then oh good grief.  Waste of time...

[Peter Smith]

Second trailer hit overnight, and well...here you go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuJ25aDdw4s

I ... look at the trailer and I see a Bourne Identity remake.

I don't.

I also never really saw Section 9 as being an outright assassination unit, despite the famous scene of the Major taking out a defector before vanishing as she falls away from the building.  Most of it, especially with Standalone Complex which appears to be being used, as the Laughing Man is in the credits they were actually a police unit focused on tracking down and arresting criminals, not outright murdering them.

Stand Alone: Unequal Terrorist
Stand Alone: Chinks in the Armor of the Heart - Ag2O
Complex: Left-Behind Trace
Complex: Sunset in the Lonely City
Complex: Smoke of Gunpowder, Hail of Bullets
DI: Reactivation
DU: Natural Enemy
DU: The Rhapsodic Melody of a Bygone Nation
IN: Chain Reaction of Symmetry
IN: Confusion at the North End
IN: Escape in Defeat
IN: Aerial Bombing of Dejima
IN: To the Other Side of Paradise
IN: Return to Patrioism

Fourteen episodes across both Gigs where Section 9 acted more like a paramilitary unit than a police unit. In some cases (start and end of 2nd Gig) they were not even a legitimate government agency. Nothing in the trailer lead me to believe this movie is setting itself up as another Bourne (which I just happened to catch yesterday). To me it felt like...Ghost in the Shell.

[sadlerbw]

I'm sure I have watched, and enjoyed, far worse than whatever this movie will turn out to be. I must admit that I do get a little twitch in the corner of my eye when I see ScarJo playing the major. It's not like Hollywood has a shortage of talented Asian actresses, to play a tiny Japanese chick for crying out loud! She better do a damn good job (which she is capable of) or it will be a sore spot with me.

As for how deep this movie gets into the classic GitS themes of asking questions about the limits of humanity and consciousness, and how massive technological integration with our minds/bodies affects society, I still hope to see those things drive the plot. However, given the amount of money it costs to get ScarJo, I'm pretty sure the plot will be driving them between scenes of spectacular CGI-laden butt-kickery. I think I'm OK with that. It may not be exactly the same as the anime, but I hold out hope that it can incorporate some of the same themes...and awesome butt-kickery.

I understand that when a 'smaller' property gets released as a big-budget Hollywood film, there is a certain amount of change that is GOING to happen. No one lays out $100 million and says, "re-make that cult classic and stay as close as you can to the source to make the current fans happy." They say, "re-make that cult classic, but  change whatever you need to in order to make sure it makes us $200 million." It is a business, after all, and I understand wanting a pretty safe bet when you put up big-budget money for a film. Heck, if it was my $100 million, I might cast a white lady that will draw in fans with her name as well! Of course, I might have gone with Helen Miren. She's just so classy!

[glitterboy2098]

in the Manga the assassination occurs before the major and her team joins Section 9, when they were basically japan's equivalent to a CIA Special Action Team.

the 2nd story in it involves said team working with Aramaki (who was with the police at the time) to investigate a suspected brainwashing facility. Aramaki is able to create Section 9 in the fallout of the failed op and recruit the major and the others since they were fired as a result. (the brainwashing facility in the orphanage was a government sanctioned operation, even though it was illegal. the op was meant to create a scandal for other politicians, and the team's bungled handling of it meant they were convenient scapegoats.

most of the non-manga depictions tend to move the ops around, resulting in their pre-Sec9 military ops occurring while in section 9, which changes the tone slightly.

though i nthe manga, they weren't above assassination either. for example at one point Sec9 was tasked to assassinate "Anaconda", a drug lord and terrorist. who they'd found out was the security minister of one of the areas of japan.

[monbvol]

I'm expecting a rather typical action movie with a little GitS flavor sprinkled in.

[Firesprocket]

Saw the new trailer this evening and it is much better than the first trailer they put out.  It is still appears feels a bit like the amount of CGI is overwhelming on the eyes.  On the other hand there are different and familiar elements from the first motion picture and second motion picture that can be picked out that make me more optimistic than watching that first crappy trailer.

I ... look at the trailer and I see a Bourne Identity remake.  Not Ghost in the Shell.

That is the way I felt after the first trailer.  While the new trailer doesn't entirely eliminate that possibility, it has quite a bit more promise.

 
I also never really saw Section 9 as being an outright assassination unit, despite the famous scene of the Major taking out a defector before vanishing as she falls away from the building.

Since I am not familiar with what you may or may not have seen outside of the SAC anime, Section 9 has never been above using assassination as a tool.  It is an extreme tool and one that isn't used to solve every issue.  If you  haven't had a chance to watch it yet I'd recommend watching Gits Arise and The New Movie (that is the actual title).  It gives a bit more character background for the majority of the cast as well as how the team came to be.  I saw a very small amount of that in the new trailer and that is why I'm now considering taking in a showing when it is released rather than wait until it is put out on DVD.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

In the original graphic novel, the Major was a pretty violent person, borderline sadistic, IIRC.  I still feel twitchy every time I see Scarlet's face in that trailer, though.  It's like a Spider-Man movie where he pulls the mask off and it's, I don't know, Dwayne Johnson or something: she just doesn't fit my image of how the Major is supposed to look.

Still, this has got me in the mood to rewatch both seasons of Stand Alone Complex, so that's a plus.

[monbvol]

While I'm inclined to agree that Scarlet does cause a similar reaction foe me I do think she can pull off the Major by channeling Black Widow.

But the body suit, egads that just looks awful the more I look at it.

[Wrangler]

I'm not feeling great about the film.  It looks bit too Hollywoodize from the preview.  I have admit it was bold for them use the body suit, since its what essentially the Major was using time to time.  Funny thing is that scene, Major was not nake it or down to her cyber skin, she was wearing camo suit.

I'm treating this like anything else that's come out of property, just another take on the story.   

Arise was slightly better revised version but i think it was lacking in spirit of things. 

[Peter Smith]

Arise was slightly better revised version but i think it was lacking in spirit of things.

I should go back and watch it again, but I think my biggest complaint (really only complaint) was that the Major went cyber while still in her mom's womb.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I should go back and watch it again, but I think my biggest complaint (really only complaint) was that the Major went cyber while still in her mom's womb.

That was a false memory implanted by the virus infecting her.

[Peter Smith]

That was a false memory implanted by the virus infecting her.

Like I said, I should go back and watch again.

[Natasha Kerensky]

I ... look at the trailer and I see a Bourne Identity remake.  Not Ghost in the Shell.

I second that.  "They made me but they can't control me."  That's Bourne in a nutshell, but it was never much of a theme in GitS shows and movies.

I can't speak to the books, but the GitS shows and movies have never been terribly introspective about the main characters.  There was a little character development between the Major and Batou and on Togusa's home life, and the occasional background story episode on a character like Saito.  But the bulk of the TV episodes and movies were about the antagonists (Laughing Man, Goda and Kuze, Puppeteer, etc.) and mysterious phenomena (stand-alone complexes) driving the cybercrime/cyberterrorism plots.  For the live-action to focus on the Major's origin story and issues seems like, well, a major departure.

The GitS shows were also very team-oriented and "Dirty Dozen" in flavor.  There's only so many characters that a movie can introduce in 90-120 minutes.  But something will be lost if only the Major, Batou and Aramaki make appearances.

Also, where's my tachikoma?

All that said, I'll still see it in theater.  Love this franchise too much.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

I second that.  "They made me but they can't control me."  That's Bourne in a nutshell, but it was never much of a theme in GitS shows and movies.

Yeah, the big existential issue in GitS wasn't "am I my own person" it was "if my whole body is mechanical, am I still human?"  There was never a question about control in the way that trailer is portraying.

[Mech42ace]

Admittidly I've never never seen GiTS, so I'm cautiously optimistic about this film, but given the track record of other live action Anime adaptations, I can't set my hopes to high. This looks like your typical Hollywood action movie and that's the most I'm expecting to get out of it.

It is good for the series as a whole though, due to the increased amount of attention it'll garner. More people will go and watch the source material.

[glitterboy2098]

it was a minor theme in the latest remake anime, GITS: Arise.
which reset the timeline to before section 9 existed. the Major was part of an all cyborg unit, in a time when full conversion was rare and expensive. she was given a prosthetic body straight from birth in that version, pretty much locking her into a military career with her body being owned by the military. if she quit, they'd repossess the body, leaving just the organic parts of her brain. the fact she was not her own person played into the plot of the film-series.. they kept changing her memories and installing sleep programs, and stuff. i think. honestly i had a hard time understanding what the hell was going on when i watched it on netflix. the Subs were good, but sometimes went by way too fast to read, and the plot is heavily convoluted with few in character recap scenes.

[MoneyLovinOgre4Hire]

Apparently I can't even add spoiler tags on my smartphone,but see my previous post.

[garhkal]

From the previews i was like "Bleh"..  Somewhat similar to a mix of ultraviolet and blade runner in parts...
Guess i will be giving it a pass, till maybe it hits tv. If i see it at all..

[ANS Kamas P81]

if she quit, they'd repossess the body, leaving just the organic parts of her brain. the fact she was not her own person played into the plot of the film-series.. they kept changing her memories and installing sleep programs, and stuff.

Considering the red Arise outfit shows up, perhaps they're leaning in this direction with the film.

[Natasha Kerensky]

A better articulation of my main concern about the most recent trailer:

Now, this is obviously a trailer and we are getting brief snippets of information about the plot but it’s stated that the Major is now not sure of her identity or her origins. That’s a massive narrative departure and one that hits at the heart of what Ghost in the Shell is all about.

To explain, the Major in the manga and anime knows who she is and how she became a cyborg. It’s an important point in the story because it is how the Major centers on her core identity; that while her body is a machine, her mind and soul aren't.

This is why the original manga was called Ghost in the Shell, as the "ghost" is your soul in the machine "shell" of a body. So in this sense, not having the Major know who she is then hits at the heart of Ghost in the Shell’s main narrative identity.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/olliebarder/2016/11/14/the-live-action-ghost-in-the-shell-movie-has-bigger-problems-than-scarlett-johansson-as-the-major/#72461ba04884

[Wrangler]

Masamune Shirow has not been the mix with the franchise since the 90s. I would not be shocked to not hear him interacting with the makes of the live Hollywood version.
Given how Hollywood operates, I'd avoid them like the plague too.

Its going to be wait and see sort thing.

[marauder648]

This films out now? I'll have to wait for it to be released in Ireland so I can sit down and watch it.

[Wrangler]

This films out now? I'll have to wait for it to be released in Ireland so I can sit down and watch it.

It's not last time I checked, their just teasing the general public to death.

[elf25s]

It's not last time I checked, their just teasing the general public to death.

yeah its a new trend...show people teaser trailer and then tell people about a new upcoming trailer and after the trailer tell public about the newer and better trailer........and forget about the movie....
my rule of thumb? more trailer and more teasing? high chance movie will be pile of business end of bull

[Natasha Kerensky]

This films out now? I'll have to wait for it to be released in Ireland so I can sit down and watch it.

March 31 release (I think), at least in the States.

[Moonsword]

Ladies and gentlemen, please avoid the discussion of "whitewashing" as it verges on topics that are covered by Rule 4.

[Ruger]

I just got back from seeing the film...my impression?

IT WAS INCREDIBLE!!!

The visuals were stunning (I'd almost want to see this in 3D), the action exciting when it needed to be, and yet, it still made you consider the central concept that has always been a part of the series, and the reason for its title...

While I was a fan of the original movies, and the two tv series, this interpretation just clicked even more with something in me. Personally, I really approved of the diversity of the cast, even as much as some have had nothing but curses about it. It really had the right vibe to me for where the world is headed...

Another thing that I've heard complaints about was the statement they said several times in the film...something along the lines of "Some people think that our memories define us. They don't. Our actions define us." I've read some reviews where the article's author took exception to it, thinking that our memories do define us. To me, this is incorrect, and the statement in the movie is true, if incomplete. To me, it should read "Our memories don't define us. They mold and shape us into who we are. But it is the actions that we take, based on our memories, circumstances, and experiences, that define us."

But that's just my opinion. YMMV...

Ruger

[Maingunnery]

I saw it today and I really liked it. But what stayed with me the most, is that the movie really sticks really well with its own theme.

I see plenty of room for a sequel with Tachikomas.

[Recklessfireball1]

While I'm inclined to agree that Scarlet does cause a similar reaction foe me I do think she can pull off the Major by channeling Black Widow.

But the body suit, egads that just looks awful the more I look at it.

Scarjo in a skin-tight body suit?  It looks better the longer I look at it.   [drool]

Also, I really dig Cyberpunk (couldn't give a fig about any manga or anime, though).

[monbvol]

Scarjo in a skin-tight body suit?  It looks better the longer I look at it.   [drool]

Also, I really dig Cyberpunk (couldn't give a fig about any manga or anime, though).

I'm wondering if I saw an early production version of the body suit or something because the coloration and "seems" initially looked weird and distracting to me but now that I go back and watch the trailer again it isn't that bad.

So either they've touched it up a bit to look better or this last week of graveyard shifts has shifted my perception of reality.